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3 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

What about Lehkonen for Bean and Fleury (Haydn)? Could that be in the works?

You might be overrating a 3rd liner Lehkonen in that deal but Haydn Fleury is a perfect example of a top draft pick that may become a bust. 7th overall in 2014 6-3, 208 lbs - I have not seen a lot of him but maybe he’s too slow? Granted d-men can sometimes take a while to mature like Ryan McDonagh but it’s this type of player in Haydn that makes me nervous in trading proven top players like Tatar or Petry for. That’s why we need a first, a top prospect and a 3rd piece like a 2nd rounder or roster player in any deal 

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More news on Habs-Avs...

- Adrian Dater now claiming Ryan Graves is the guy the Habs have been aggressively going after. Yes, Graves is a shutdown guy with size and who played junior in Quebec, but he also IMO doesn't fix the need for a top LHD. He's probably your #4 guy in an ideal world. Doesn't make much sense to give up assets to get him and still not have addressed your problem. I would consider trading for Graves or Zadorov a loss for the Habs because it's trade capital spent on something that isn't a need. The Habs should be more focused on the likes of Byram, Timmins, Bean, Bouchard, Dobson, Vilimaki, Heinola, or players of that ilk who at least have a shot at helping your top pairing one day.

- J.C. Lajoie and Mike Bossy of TVA Sports speculate that Drouin would be a good fit in Colorado and that Jost or Girard could be two names that would make sense for MB to to after.

Meanwhile, Calgary Sun noting that Max Domi could be among one of the players the Flames have asked about.

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34 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

More news on Habs-Avs...

- Adrian Dater now claiming Ryan Graves is the guy the Habs have been aggressively going after. Yes, Graves is a shutdown guy with size and who played junior in Quebec, but he also IMO doesn't fix the need for a top LHD. He's probably your #4 guy in an ideal world. Doesn't make much sense to give up assets to get him and still not have addressed your problem. I would consider trading for Graves or Zadorov a loss for the Habs because it's trade capital spent on something that isn't a need. The Habs should be more focused on the likes of Byram, Timmins, Bean, Bouchard, Dobson, Vilimaki, Heinola, or players of that ilk who at least have a shot at helping your top pairing one day.

Unless its Chiarot for Graves, not interested. He's not an upgrade on LD and while a serviceable #4-6 we have a whole team of those. 

 

34 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

- J.C. Lajoie and Mike Bossy of TVA Sports speculate that Drouin would be a good fit in Colorado and that Jost or Girard could be two names that would make sense for MB to to after.

Meanwhile, Calgary Sun noting that Max Domi could be among one of the players the Flames have asked about.

Ive been saying for a while I think the real target for Sakic is Drouin, not Tatar.   Id hate to lose Drouin but if he went to CO id demand Byram as the main piece coming back. And Id want at least one more prospect like Bowers.  Drouin is young, proven and has a huge history with Mackinnon.  If you trade him to Colorado, expect there's a chance he's an 80+ point player there. We'd need to be compensated. 

I feel like its all smoke with Domi. I just dont see MB trading him unless the return is really really strong. Its a trade MB won handily so to risk trading him & losing the next one doesnt seem like MB's MO.

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

Unless its Chiarot for Graves, not interested. He's not an upgrade on LD and while a serviceable #4-6 we have a whole team of those. 

 

Ive been saying for a while I think the real target for Sakic is Drouin, not Tatar.   Id hate to lose Drouin but if he went to CO id demand Byram as the main piece coming back. And Id want at least one more prospect like Bowers.  Drouin is young, proven and has a huge history with Mackinnon.  If you trade him to Colorado, expect there's a chance he's an 80+ point player there. We'd need to be compensated. 

I feel like its all smoke with Domi. I just dont see MB trading him unless the return is really really strong. Its a trade MB won handily so to risk trading him & losing the next one doesnt seem like MB's MO.

When we acquired Drouin, it was for a recent top 10 choice (Sergachev) AND a conditional 2nd rounder (if Sergachev didn't prove he could play in the NHL right away). Byram and Sergachev are probably pretty comparable prospects. Hard to say whether Drouin's value is higher or lower now. He's older, which is a strike, but he's also a bit more proven and did well earlier this year, and he's on a reasonable contract. Plus, as a guy to "put you over the top" for a Cup run, it's a given that most guys acquired at the trade deadline when you know you're having a good year come at a premium, even if he's signed longer-term.

So yeah, I think if they want Drouin, it's a non-starter if the trade doesn't include Byram.

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7 hours ago, claremont said:

You might be overrating a 3rd liner Lehkonen in that deal but Haydn Fleury is a perfect example of a top draft pick that may become a bust. 7th overall in 2014 6-3, 208 lbs - I have not seen a lot of him but maybe he’s too slow? Granted d-men can sometimes take a while to mature like Ryan McDonagh but it’s this type of player in Haydn that makes me nervous in trading proven top players like Tatar or Petry for. That’s why we need a first, a top prospect and a 3rd piece like a 2nd rounder or roster player in any deal 

Yes and no. I mean, yes that is a hefty price for a third liner. But, we’ve already seen some pretty hefty prices paid for third liners so far this deadline. 

My thought process was based on how I imagined dialogue could have unfolded along the lines of...

Wadell - How about Bean and a 1st for Petry?

MB - Nah, Bean and two 1st’s .

Wadell - Too much. What about Bean and a 1st for Tatar?

MB - Nah, Tatar’s price is the same as Petry. But we’ll do Lehkonen for Bean and a 1st.

Wadell - Still too much. What about Bean for Lehk’s straight up?

MB - Toss in Fleury and you’ve got a deal.

Lol yes, perhaps a bit of a stretch, but I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable. If Carolina was looking to add a forward without giving up too much. Lehk’s might not be Tatar, but he’s no Weise either. He’s young, and has shown signs at times of being able to hit that next level. And if a team like Carolina felt it was worth a shot, and it didn’t cost them any 1st’s or stud prospects...?

But yes, long story short, it would be quite the hull for Lehkonen. Would make for a good trade from our perspective though.

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6 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Yes and no. I mean, yes that is a hefty price for a third liner. But, we’ve already seen some pretty hefty prices paid for third liners so far this deadline. 

My thought process was based on how I imagined dialogue could have unfolded along the lines of...

Wadell - How about Bean and a 1st for Petry?

MB - Nah, Bean and two 1st’s .

Wadell - Too much. What about Bean and a 1st for Tatar?

MB - Nah, Tatar’s price is the same as Petry. But we’ll do Lehkonen for Bean and a 1st.

Wadell - Still too much. What about Bean for Lehk’s straight up?

MB - Toss in Fleury and you’ve got a deal.

Lol yes, perhaps a bit of a stretch, but I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable. If Carolina was looking to add a forward without giving up too much. Lehk’s might not be Tatar, but he’s no Weise either. He’s young, and has shown signs at times of being able to hit that next level. And if a team like Carolina felt it was worth a shot, and it didn’t cost them any 1st’s or stud prospects...?

But yes, long story short, it would be quite the hull for Lehkonen. Would make for a good trade from our perspective though.

If we're talking to Waddell, why not;  

Cousins, Weal & Petry for Aho?  Heck, we'll even throw in Weise!  Thats 3/5 of our PP unit bro!!   :P

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44 minutes ago, maas_art said:

If we're talking to Waddell, why not;  

Cousins, Weal & Petry for Aho?  Heck, we'll even throw in Weise!  Thats 3/5 of our PP unit bro!!   :P

You "do" realize that we'd have to create a whole new 4th line, don't you? :frech1:

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Some more really interesting speculation out of Colorado today. CO writers speculating that Sakic & MB are still working on something really big.  Interestingly they seem to think that names like Tatar, Petry and Drouin are only secondary.  

Some feel like they've talked about Price (although that seems really unlikely) but the player that Sakic covets most from our roster is actually Danault...  would be very interesting, if true, to know what he's offering in return. I like Danault a lot (and obvs CJ loves him) but if he could bring back a hefty return, he may be the player we're most capable of replacing. 

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7 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Some more really interesting speculation out of Colorado today. CO writers speculating that Sakic & MB are still working on something really big.  Interestingly they seem to think that names like Tatar, Petry and Drouin are only secondary.  

Some feel like they've talked about Price (although that seems really unlikely) but the player that Sakic covets most from our roster is actually Danault...  would be very interesting, if true, to know what he's offering in return. I like Danault a lot (and obvs CJ loves him) but if he could bring back a hefty return, he may be the player we're most capable of replacing. 

I saw a report on mile high hockey site that was similar. Outlining thatSakic really likes Danault as a second or third line center option and he would be willing to give up his first + Byram ++ to land Danault. They seem to feel like the haul for Danault would be the same as both Perry and Tatar or slightly more given his term and age and ability to play top line minutes against the best players on opposing teams

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1 minute ago, campabee82 said:

I saw a report on mile high hockey site that was similar. Outlining thatSakic really likes Danault as a second or third line center option and he would be willing to give up his first + Byram ++ to land Danault. They seem to feel like the haul for Danault would be the same as both Perry and Tatar or slightly more given his term and age and ability to play top line minutes against the best players on opposing teams

I said that ages ago that IMO Danualt would be coveted by many contending teams and that he was replaceable- this forums general response was the preference to trade others before Danualt 

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Some more really interesting speculation out of Colorado today. CO writers speculating that Sakic & MB are still working on something really big.  Interestingly they seem to think that names like Tatar, Petry and Drouin are only secondary.  

Some feel like they've talked about Price (although that seems really unlikely) but the player that Sakic covets most from our roster is actually Danault...  would be very interesting, if true, to know what he's offering in return. I like Danault a lot (and obvs CJ loves him) but if he could bring back a hefty return, he may be the player we're most capable of replacing. 

Yeesh, I don’t know... I mean, I guess if the return is big enough, at some point you almost have to pull the trigger. But man, Danault would definitely be harder to replace (particularly for next season) than Tatar, and probably harder than Petry too. This would most certainly be an interesting one...

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Some more really interesting speculation out of Colorado today. CO writers speculating that Sakic & MB are still working on something really big.  Interestingly they seem to think that names like Tatar, Petry and Drouin are only secondary.  

Some feel like they've talked about Price (although that seems really unlikely) but the player that Sakic covets most from our roster is actually Danault...  would be very interesting, if true, to know what he's offering in return. I like Danault a lot (and obvs CJ loves him) but if he could bring back a hefty return, he may be the player we're most capable of replacing. 

 

7 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I saw a report on mile high hockey site that was similar. Outlining thatSakic really likes Danault as a second or third line center option and he would be willing to give up his first + Byram ++ to land Danault. They seem to feel like the haul for Danault would be the same as both Perry and Tatar or slightly more given his term and age and ability to play top line minutes against the best players on opposing teams

 

7 hours ago, claremont said:

I said that ages ago that IMO Danualt would be coveted by many contending teams and that he was replaceable- this forums general response was the preference to trade others before Danualt 

Danault's value is higher than Tatar's. He's a center, he's younger, and he's widely considered to be one of the best two-way centers in the league. He's also been playing as our 1C, whether he should be there or not, and his line is one of the best possession lines in the entire NHL.

The problem for the Habs is that he's not replaceable right now. When we traded Eller (which I think was still a bad deal), we had Danault in the pipelines. Right now, we have Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, and Domi down the middle, but none of those three players is considered to be a shutdown guy who can take on the toughest match-ups or win big draws. We have Poehling and Evans in the AHL too, and maybe one of them becomes an effective two-way player, but right now, neither one is a sure bet to be in the NHL. I also wonder if Danault (assuming he re-signs after his current contract ends) is the next captain of the Habs, so you have to talk about replacing his leadership and his ability to speak French.

If the Habs are tentative to trade Petry or Tatar, they should be ten times hesitant to trade Danault. The overpayment would have to be huge, and Sakic would have to be extremely willing to part with his best prospects, unlike what he has said. If we throw in Kovalchuk to satisfy Colorado's wish for a cheap winger and we ask for Girard to satisfy our need to replace Danault with a French-speaking media presence and we give them a D man to replace Girard, I would build a deal around something like this:

 

Mtl trades Danault, Kovalchuk, and Kulak

&

Col trades Byram, Newhook, Girard, and a a 2020 1st round pick.

 

It's everything Sakic said he didn't want to do, but assuming Sakic's comments weren't a smokescreen, I wouldn't make the deal unless it was a blow-away type trade return.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Some more really interesting speculation out of Colorado today. CO writers speculating that Sakic & MB are still working on something really big.  Interestingly they seem to think that names like Tatar, Petry and Drouin are only secondary.  

Some feel like they've talked about Price (although that seems really unlikely) but the player that Sakic covets most from our roster is actually Danault...  would be very interesting, if true, to know what he's offering in return. I like Danault a lot (and obvs CJ loves him) but if he could bring back a hefty return, he may be the player we're most capable of replacing. 

I think trading Danualt is perfectly fine for this team. Our strength now and for the next ten years is down the middle. We will be fine with Domi, Suzuzki, KK and Poehling....

With the way Suzuki has been growing this season, I see no reason he cannot take over Danualt spot right now with Tatar and Gallagher. Yes Danualt is more sesaoned but Suzuki is certainly a quick learner. I liken him to Bergeron in boston..so many similiar qualties. I even think Suzuki may have more vision. 

We need to get some scoring wingers and some top end deeman or top end dee prospects. 

I like Danault but his value is at an all time high, and if we keep him, after next season he will be looking for 6 million and if this team is going to become a top 5 or top 10 team in the league, Danualt can not be your first line center if he is your not a top 10 team, and I dont want to be paying a third line center 6 million dollars. 

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Martin McGuire says he has heard the Habs will be aggressively trying to sell veterans before the deadline.

And FWIW, maybe a bigger rumor if you consider any value to what he says, but Mike Commodore says his "phone has been blowing up" and that Marc Bergevin is "thinking of resetting things to 1995." When I hear that, the first thing I think of is that he's planning on hiring Patrick Roy as his coach... not sure what else 1995 would represent.

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14 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Martin McGuire says he has heard the Habs will be aggressively trying to sell veterans before the deadline.

And FWIW, maybe a bigger rumor if you consider any value to what he says, but Mike Commodore says his "phone has been blowing up" and that Marc Bergevin is "thinking of resetting things to 1995." When I hear that, the first thing I think of is that he's planning on hiring Patrick Roy as his coach... not sure what else 1995 would represent.

Not sure but HUGE if true. Could mean Roy could mean total rebuild could mean going aggressively after FA and trades over the summer.

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23 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Martin McGuire says he has heard the Habs will be aggressively trying to sell veterans before the deadline.

And FWIW, maybe a bigger rumor if you consider any value to what he says, but Mike Commodore says his "phone has been blowing up" and that Marc Bergevin is "thinking of resetting things to 1995." When I hear that, the first thing I think of is that he's planning on hiring Patrick Roy as his coach... not sure what else 1995 would represent.

Roy was traded to Colorado in 1995. Possibly Commodore (who likes to embellish mind you) means that we're seriously talking to Sakic about trading Price to Colorado? 

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I just don't see MB trading Price or Weber. I don't see a complete rebuild. Personally, I prefer the path we're on but I'm open to a complete rebuild. 

If we did trade Price I think you can get a big return for him if you retained some salary, or preferably, took a shorter-term bad contract back (even 3-4 years long)

Aside from 4th liners, there is sense in trading Tatar, Kovalchuk, and to some extent Petry. Trading anyone else, in a non-hockey trade, doesn't make much sense unless we're in a full rebuild. 

In terms of getting the right price, I don't think its right to trade guys just to get rid of them. We need to get good value. 

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24 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Martin McGuire says he has heard the Habs will be aggressively trying to sell veterans before the deadline.

And FWIW, maybe a bigger rumor if you consider any value to what he says, but Mike Commodore says his "phone has been blowing up" and that Marc Bergevin is "thinking of resetting things to 1995." When I hear that, the first thing I think of is that he's planning on hiring Patrick Roy as his coach... not sure what else 1995 would represent.

 

8 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Not sure but HUGE if true. Could mean Roy could mean total rebuild could mean going aggressively after FA and trades over the summer.

 

Just now, maas_art said:

Roy was traded to Colorado in 1995. Possibly Commodore (who likes to embellish mind you) means that we're seriously talking to Sakic about trading Price to Colorado? 

I’m with you, Mass. that’s what comes to my mind. Also, I think Roy cane to the realization that he need to be the one making the calls. So I can see him being interested in replacing MB, but not so much in replacing CJ. I think his time in Colorado showed that if he’s going to stick his neck/reputation on the line, he needs full roster control.

And as I am already on the record regarding this topic, I am fully on board with the idea of Roy as our top dog. Make him president of hockey opps. Let him hire a coach and GM of his choosing. I can’t say for sure it would work. Perhaps there is a better option out there, I can’t think of one, but maybe. What I do know is that at some point, before I leave this good world, I would like to see it tried. 

As for trading Price. It wasn’t on my list of moves I’d like to see us make, and it’d ought to be a heck of a package coming back. But I took a look at FA goalies for next year, (it’s still early, but) looks like there might some decent options available. If we could sign someone to split the net with Primeau, I think it could work.

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