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7 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Agreed, I don't think injuries are a huge concern in Mantha's case. He missed 20 games with a rib/lung injury after Muzzin threw him backwards to the ice last season and also missed 8 games with a minor knee inury around Christmas. The year before, he missed 15 games with a broken hand when he stood up for Larkin and fought some dude from Colorado after a questionable hit and 2 more games with a groin injury. If the numbers on TSN are accurate, Domi missed only about half as many games due to injury (23 games vs. 45 games) since they started playing in the NHL in 2015 but it's not like Mantha had major surgeries or a concussion history, which would definitely be red flags for me.

Ok but your kind of proving my point for me. That is 4 injuries in 2 years for 45 games missed out of a possible 164 that is more than half a season on IR instead of on the ice producing.

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17 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Ok but your kind of proving my point for me. That is 4 injuries in 2 years for 45 games missed out of a possible 164 that is more than half a season on IR instead of on the ice producing.

Sure, but you're kind of missing mine. I don't see these injuries as huge concerns due to their specific nature, i.e. I don't think they have a high probability of re-occuring or impacting his game down the road. Kotkaniemi missed games with a concussion, groin injury, and a spleen injury last season and had a minor knee surgery in 2019 on top of that but I don't see him as a player that is often injured either (so far). If concussions or knee issues become a trend, it's concerning for sure.

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11 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Sure, but you're kind of missing mine. I don't see these injuries as huge concerns due to their specific nature, i.e. I don't think they have a high probability of re-occuring or impacting his game down the road. Kotkaniemi missed games with a concussion, groin injury, and a spleen injury last season and had a minor knee surgery in 2019 on top of that but I don't see him as a player that is often injured either (so far). If concussions or knee issues become a trend, it's concerning for sure.

I didn't miss your point injuries happen for sure but it's quite a risk taking a player who in 5 years who has missed the equivalent of 2 full seasons and over the course of 1 and 2/3 seasons has missed half a season. Too much for my liking anyway.

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6 hours ago, claremont said:

Domi for Mantha, Domi for Josh Anderson, Domi for Anthanasiou - All of those  are rebound or recovery projects to get the exchanged player back to their potential peak or ceiling years. You have to ask who has the Higher recovery potential- a healthy Domi or the questionable player returned? I would rather see Domi packaged with multiple players Mete, Byron, Poehling lower draft pick 3rd etc., for  something of more quality or lower risk. Alternatively I would take a high draft pick or prospect in such a trade and gamble on a younger player. 
Bergevin is king of exchanges for non-impact players Kulak, Armia, Tatar, Weal - I’m  likely overvaluing Domi so maybe it’s Danault instead But we need more impactful players for the future core. 

 

As far as Domi vs Mantha is concerned I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on who has the most value (and I’ve been about as pro Domi as anyone on here)

But aside from that, it’s a fair question to ask when comparing Domi to Anderson. There very different players. With Anderson the question is was the surgery a success? If so, I’d say there’s a good chance he’ll get back to 20-25 goals. With Domi it’s about circumstance, where in the lineup will he be used? How does that effect his likelihood of getting back above 60pts? Can he fit into a top 6 RW role? Will he be stuck on the 3rd or 4th line? Who are his linemates? I think the biggest reason for Domi’s success the season prior, and his decline this past season had everything to do with Andrew Shaw. They had great chemistry, and without him Domi struggled to find that next level.

To me, yes, Anderson gives up a little when comparing pure skill, but makes it up with positional usefulness and our need for a mix of his specific skill set that Domi lacks. 
But to be clear, I’m only down for that trade if we can be sure Anderson’s shoulder is a non factor. I wouldn’t want to gamble on that either.

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2 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

As far as Domi vs Mantha is concerned I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on who has the most value (and I’ve been about as pro Domi as anyone on here)

But aside from that, it’s a fair question to ask when comparing Domi to Anderson. There very different players. With Anderson the question is was the surgery a success? If so, I’d say there’s a good chance he’ll get back to 20-25 goals. With Domi it’s about circumstance, where in the lineup will he be used? How does that effect his likelihood of getting back above 60pts? Can he fit into a top 6 RW role? Will he be stuck on the 3rd or 4th line? Who are his linemates? I think the biggest reason for Domi’s success the season prior, and his decline this past season had everything to do with Andrew Shaw. They had great chemistry, and without him Domi struggled to find that next level.

To me, yes, Anderson gives up a little when comparing pure skill, but makes it up with positional usefulness and our need for a mix of his specific skill set that Domi lacks. 
But to be clear, I’m only down for that trade if we can be sure Anderson’s shoulder is a non factor. I wouldn’t want to gamble on that either.

I think that is a fair review of Domi and his place with the Habs we suddenly have depth at his position and not so much elsewhere......

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On 9/13/2020 at 7:20 AM, claremont said:

Domi for Mantha, Domi for Josh Anderson, Domi for Anthanasiou - All of those  are rebound or recovery projects to get the exchanged player back to their potential peak or ceiling years. You have to ask who has the Higher recovery potential- a healthy Domi or the questionable player returned? I would rather see Domi packaged with multiple players Mete, Byron, Poehling lower draft pick 3rd etc., for  something of more quality or lower risk. Alternatively I would take a high draft pick or prospect in such a trade and gamble on a younger player. 

Yeah I tend to agree.  We're finally in a position to move a couple of players and get someone of impact. I think it would be a bad idea to trade Domi just for the sake of trading him- or even as a lateral move.  I also believe he has higher value than those players listed.  

20 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

As far as Domi vs Mantha is concerned I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on who has the most value (and I’ve been about as pro Domi as anyone on here)

Im not sure why Domi gets such a low rap on these boards.  Is he dispensable now? yes - but thats more to do with the depth on this team and the fact he's due for a raise. Not because he's not a valuable asset.   He could be the key chip to bring us a player we desperately need (ie top pairing dman).

Compared with any of those 3 names above, Domi is highest value imho. He's the youngest and the only one with a 28g 72p season under his belt.  Mantha has never scored  more than 48pts and is the same age as domi. Anderson's high is 47 points and he's 26.  Anthanasiou is also 26 and his best season is 54 points- 30 goals is better than Domi's best, but like domi, he's never broken 20 in any other season. 

I understand that the concern is that Domi is better as a centre and we maybe dont have room for him there - he's right now 1 year removed from his big season, Play him anotehr year at wing & will that lower his value? Maybe. But maybe not. Maybe he'll have another strong year after adapting to the wing. Who knows.  I do hope we dont just throw him away though.  He's a valuable asset. Still young and should bring back a solid return if he's no longer in our plans.  

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agreed on the lateral move comment ....unless something comes back in a package deal that is markedly better we keep Domi ...the question then becomes his asking price ...if it's $ 4 mill or below for 2 years then we pay it ( more or less a mill more per  than he gets now ) ...it's not like the roster is set in stone for the whole next season ...he can still be moved if an opportunity arises 

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With the Edmundson trade (He still has to sign here obviously but one would assume MB thinks he will or he wouldnt have given up an asset for him) there's lots of speculation Mete (or maybe Kulak although I doubt his value is as high) will be moved. 

Couple that with Domi's name on the block,  the fact that MB apparently told a reporter he wasnt looking for a DMan but rather a big name forward to make a splash.. AND... Laine's name keeps coming up.... 

ive heard a bunch of sites suggesting a package of Domi + Mete + _____  for Laine.   The ____ is the real question mark. 

I assume they would want another defensman - preferably youngish, cheap and nhl-ready, but they might want a top prospect (regardless of position).   

Would  Domi + Caufield + Mete do the trick? Do you need to add a pick too?  I know Domi is a 72 point scorer and Mete is a nice depth piece and Caufield is an elite prospect but Patrick Laine is only 22 years old and has 247 pts in 305 nhl games (four seasons) with  44, 36, 30 and 28 goal performances. 
 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

With the Edmundson trade (He still has to sign here obviously but one would assume MB thinks he will or he wouldnt have given up an asset for him) there's lots of speculation Mete (or maybe Kulak although I doubt his value is as high) will be moved. 

Couple that with Domi's name on the block,  the fact that MB apparently told a reporter he wasnt looking for a DMan but rather a big name forward to make a splash.. AND... Laine's name keeps coming up.... 

ive heard a bunch of sites suggesting a package of Domi + Mete + _____  for Laine.   The ____ is the real question mark. 

I assume they would want another defensman - preferably youngish, cheap and nhl-ready, but they might want a top prospect (regardless of position).   

Would  Domi + Caufield + Mete do the trick? Do you need to add a pick too?  I know Domi is a 72 point scorer and Mete is a nice depth piece and Caufield is an elite prospect but Patrick Laine is only 22 years old and has 247 pts in 305 nhl games (four seasons) with  44, 36, 30 and 28 goal performances. 
 

if its not enough, than im not sure im willing to add much more. They either want to move him or they don't. I would move Caufield as part of a package to get him but thats giving up a lot

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Would  Domi + Caufield + Mete do the trick? Do you need to add a pick too?  I know Domi is a 72 point scorer and Mete is a nice depth piece and Caufield is an elite prospect but Patrick Laine is only 22 years old and has 247 pts in 305 nhl games (four seasons) with  44, 36, 30 and 28 goal performances. 

I wouldn’t, too rich for my blood. Caufield could be every bit as good, likely even better in two years time. But that’s just my opinion. I won’t loose any sleep if that deal comes to fruition, it’s just not a deal I’d make.

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1 hour ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I wouldn’t, too rich for my blood. Caufield could be every bit as good, likely even better in two years time. But that’s just my opinion. I won’t loose any sleep if that deal comes to fruition, it’s just not a deal I’d make.

I like Caufield a lot - he's easily our best prospect - but thats a very bold statement (especially the 'likely' part!)   Laine is easily one of the 5 best goal scorers in the NHL and he's only 22...  Could Caufield be that good? Maybe.  But imho you get a chance to trade a 'maybe' for a sure thing? you do it.  I do get the cristcism (he can be a cherry picker at times but what goal scorer isnt? Even AO8 spends large portions of games floating at times.  But Laine has proven his release is elite by NHL standards. So far Caufield has only proven his at lower levels.  


Likely wont happen anyway so its moot. 

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22 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I like Caufield a lot - he's easily our best prospect - but thats a very bold statement (especially the 'likely' part!)   Laine is easily one of the 5 best goal scorers in the NHL and he's only 22...  Could Caufield be that good? Maybe.  But imho you get a chance to trade a 'maybe' for a sure thing? you do it.  I do get the cristcism (he can be a cherry picker at times but what goal scorer isnt? Even AO8 spends large portions of games floating at times.  But Laine has proven his release is elite by NHL standards. So far Caufield has only proven his at lower levels.  


Likely wont happen anyway so its moot. 

I hear ya, and what you say makes sense. I have no quantifiable rational for my statement, just a purely anecdotical one. For this one I defer to my Father. Leading up to that draft (before we drafted him) my dad went on a rant to me about how he wished MB would trade up in the draft (like he never does) to pick this Caufield kid. He went in to explain how exceptional a shooter he was, that he had the best release he had seen since Mike Bossy, and how he would be a 50 goal scorer. My pops is a wise bird, and his eye for the game is usually spot on. Low and behold, he dropped and we got’em anyways. So personally, I’d be damned before I traded Caufield. But that’s just me. Maybe he turns into a 50 goal scorer, maybe he doesn’t, but I’d rather take the gamble. I might feel differently if Liane were trending up instead down. Then again, if he were trending up, Winnipeg wouldn’t be looking to trade him. 
Also, why trade a bunch of assets for Liane, then sign him for $7+ when we could sign Hoffman (for presumably less) and keep Caufield, Domi and Mete. Even if it’s just to trade Domi and Mete to fill another need?

anyways, like I said, purely anecdotal lol

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33 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I hear ya, and what you say makes sense. I have no quantifiable rational for my statement, just a purely anecdotical one. For this one I defer to my Father. Leading up to that draft (before we drafted him) my dad went on a rant to me about how he wished MB would trade up in the draft (like he never does) to pick this Caufield kid. He went in to explain how exceptional a shooter he was, that he had the best release he had seen since Mike Bossy, and how he would be a 50 goal scorer. My pops is a wise bird, and his eye for the game is usually spot on. Low and behold, he dropped and we got’em anyways. So personally, I’d be damned before I traded Caufield. But that’s just me. Maybe he turns into a 50 goal scorer, maybe he doesn’t, but I’d rather take the gamble. I might feel differently if Liane were trending up instead down. Then again, if he were trending up, Winnipeg wouldn’t be looking to trade him. 
Also, why trade a bunch of assets for Liane, then sign him for $7+ when we could sign Hoffman (for presumably less) and keep Caufield, Domi and Mete. Even if it’s just to trade Domi and Mete to fill another need?

anyways, like I said, purely anecdotal lol

Hey, you never argue with your old man ;) hehe. Thats what i tell my daughters at least!

I totally get what you're saying & it IS a gamble - even though Laine has proven himself, guys fall off cliffs after trades.  Its still a risk for us - even if its not as much as it is for them.  Honestly though, I think that even IF Laine is on the block (and unless he's specifically asked for a trade - he apparently doesnt get along with Maurice, Im not sure its true) I can see Winnipeg moving him for a package of players unless the primary guy returning is a defensman.  They could most likely trade Laine for Dumba +  and fix one of their major holes. They already have a number of excellent forwards & can afford to lose one - getting domi & caufield back doesnt solve that. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Hey, you never argue with your old man ;) hehe. Thats what i tell my daughters at least!

I totally get what you're saying & it IS a gamble - even though Laine has proven himself, guys fall off cliffs after trades.  Its still a risk for us - even if its not as much as it is for them.  Honestly though, I think that even IF Laine is on the block (and unless he's specifically asked for a trade - he apparently doesnt get along with Maurice, Im not sure its true) I can see Winnipeg moving him for a package of players unless the primary guy returning is a defensman.  They could most likely trade Laine for Dumba +  and fix one of their major holes. They already have a number of excellent forwards & can afford to lose one - getting domi & caufield back doesnt solve that. 

As elite as Laine can be the part about not getting along with, and his defensive lapses. How well do you think he'd get along with Jullien? I know sometimes scores have slumps. It's how they try to play through them. Do they pout or do they work their but off? If you're paying a big dollar contract I don't want a player whom is only good on the Power Play but can't be trusted protecting a lead or sulks if his ice time is reduced. I'm not sold on Laine myself. 

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^^ I'll put a few rumors together. Friedman reported that the Jets prefer to trade Laine than Ehlers. JC Lajoie of TVA says the only way the Edmundson trade makes sense is if there's another blockbuster in the works and that trading Chiarot makes the most sense. He speculates Chiarot back to Winnipeg could be of interest to them in a blockbuster deal for Laine. We also know Minnesota has shown interest in Domi and is willing to trade Dumba or Brodin, and we know Poehling has a reputation from playing college in Minnesota.

I've outlined a possible 3-way deal between us, Minnesota, and Winnipeg, but I really think that's the best way to go after Laine if he's the target (albeit I also have a lot of interest in Dumba coming here too). Putting aside the extras that would be needed, the key players moving could include Laine coming here, Domi and Poehling going to Minny, Dumba and Chiarot going to Winnipeg... that could largely address a lot of needs for everyone: we need a scoring winger for our top line and have a center to spare, Minny has an extra D man to trade but needs a top 6 center, and Winnipeg wants to dump extra scoring wingers for any type of help for their miserable defence.

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50 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I've outlined a possible 3-way deal between us, Minnesota, and Winnipeg, but I really think that's the best way to go after Laine if he's the target (albeit I also have a lot of interest in Dumba coming here too). Putting aside the extras that would be needed, the key players moving could include Laine coming here, Domi and Poehling going to Minny, Dumba and Chiarot going to Winnipeg... that could largely address a lot of needs for everyone: we need a scoring winger for our top line and have a center to spare, Minny has an extra D man to trade but needs a top 6 center, and Winnipeg wants to dump extra scoring wingers for any type of help for their miserable defence.

Chiarot back to Winnipeg makes perfect sense but I’m not so sure about the Minny Dumba part - I would almost virtually guarantee that RHD Hamonic as a free agent takes a hometown discount to sign with the jets subject to cap room so they would not need Dumba. Bryan Little might be best with his injury to sit out the year. 

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ I'll put a few rumors together. Friedman reported that the Jets prefer to trade Laine than Ehlers. JC Lajoie of TVA says the only way the Edmundson trade makes sense is if there's another blockbuster in the works and that trading Chiarot makes the most sense. He speculates Chiarot back to Winnipeg could be of interest to them in a blockbuster deal for Laine. We also know Minnesota has shown interest in Domi and is willing to trade Dumba or Brodin, and we know Poehling has a reputation from playing college in Minnesota.

I've outlined a possible 3-way deal between us, Minnesota, and Winnipeg, but I really think that's the best way to go after Laine if he's the target (albeit I also have a lot of interest in Dumba coming here too). Putting aside the extras that would be needed, the key players moving could include Laine coming here, Domi and Poehling going to Minny, Dumba and Chiarot going to Winnipeg... that could largely address a lot of needs for everyone: we need a scoring winger for our top line and have a center to spare, Minny has an extra D man to trade but needs a top 6 center, and Winnipeg wants to dump extra scoring wingers for any type of help for their miserable defence.

I saw a rumour today that suggested that the Allen and Edmundson trades could be MB planning on going after Pietrangelo. By trading for 2 of his former teammates and his most used defensive partner in their cup run. He can now use Domi, Mete, Petry, Kulak, Chiarot and others to open space to sign Pietrangelo. We could trade Domi + Mete to the Jets for 10th + Niku (or similar prospect) or trade Mete + Domi + 2nd to the Rangers for Buchnevich. We have tons of options to open cap space for a big name in FA. One trade foe futures I kind of like is Domi to the Pens for Poulin + Legare. Then maybe send Petry + Chiarot to Winnipeg for Ehlers and sign Pietrangelo (if that really is what all this is about) I doubt it but it does leave many more possibilities than plugs holes.

 

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12 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ I'll put a few rumors together. Friedman reported that the Jets prefer to trade Laine than Ehlers. JC Lajoie of TVA says the only way the Edmundson trade makes sense is if there's another blockbuster in the works and that trading Chiarot makes the most sense. He speculates Chiarot back to Winnipeg could be of interest to them in a blockbuster deal for Laine. We also know Minnesota has shown interest in Domi and is willing to trade Dumba or Brodin, and we know Poehling has a reputation from playing college in Minnesota.

I've outlined a possible 3-way deal between us, Minnesota, and Winnipeg, but I really think that's the best way to go after Laine if he's the target (albeit I also have a lot of interest in Dumba coming here too). Putting aside the extras that would be needed, the key players moving could include Laine coming here, Domi and Poehling going to Minny, Dumba and Chiarot going to Winnipeg... that could largely address a lot of needs for everyone: we need a scoring winger for our top line and have a center to spare, Minny has an extra D man to trade but needs a top 6 center, and Winnipeg wants to dump extra scoring wingers for any type of help for their miserable defence.

So for us that essentially means Domi, Chiarot, Poehling, and a 5th rounder for Laine and Edmundson? I like it, which probably means it won‘t happen 😂

1 hour ago, 26NCounting said:

Regardless of all the rumors out there I am sure we can all count on one thing, MB is going to do something stupid!

That‘s the most likely outcome for sure :lol:

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3 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

Regardless of all the rumors out there I am sure we can all count on one thing, MB is going to do something stupid!

That's about it lol. 

On a side note: I didn't realize that Petry and Krug were close friends. Apparently they met in university where they played together for the University of Michigan. They became such close friends that Krug often makes a point of stopping by Petry's house in the off season. They were both members of the others wedding party and they keep in regular contact throughout the season often exchanging phone calls and such. That could be a huge in for the Habs signing Krug. BTW all of this comes from an article on the Habs site titled behind enemy lines with Torey Krug. The article is an interview with Krug on his relationship with Petry.

Here's the link

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/behind-enemy-lines-torey-krug-on-jeff-petry/c-286583742

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8 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

That's about it lol. 

On a side note: I didn't realize that Petry and Krug were close friends. Apparently they met in university where they played together for the University of Michigan. They became such close friends that Krug often makes a point of stopping by Petry's house in the off season. They were both members of the others wedding party and they keep in regular contact throughout the season often exchanging phone calls and such. That could be a huge in for the Habs signing Krug. BTW all of this comes from an article on the Habs site titled behind enemy lines with Torey Krug. The article is an interview with Krug on his relationship with Petry.

Here's the link

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/behind-enemy-lines-torey-krug-on-jeff-petry/c-286583742

Yup. The Krug/Petry and Krug/Julien connections are the main reason (well and that we really need a LHD) that there have been so many Krug to habs rumours i think.

I would be surprised at this point if MB did actually go after Krug.  1) he seems to think we're set on D.  2) Romanov  3) He traded for Edmundson's rights 4) He said in an interview that his focus was on impact winger(s). 

 

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yup. The Krug/Petry and Krug/Julien connections are the main reason (well and that we really need a LHD) that there have been so many Krug to habs rumours i think.

I would be surprised at this point if MB did actually go after Krug.  1) he seems to think we're set on D.  2) Romanov  3) He traded for Edmundson's rights 4) He said in an interview that his focus was on impact winger(s). 

I agree, I was just saying I did not realize how close the two were and that IF MB wanted him that could be the best route.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

 

  there's something about acquiring Krug that doesn't sit right ...is he offensively talented ...enough so ...but he plays the PP with their big line all the time not to mention a regular shift ....some have intimated that he's somewhat sheltered from the heavy going on that team ...his size is a factor ....maybe it's because he's a Bruin ...maybe it's the kind of coin he'll be asking ...if he gave Boston a home-town discount it would still be in the $7 +  mill and term range ...I can't see Montreal going near that whether he's a friend of Petry or not 

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8 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  there's something about acquiring Krug that doesn't sit right ...is he offensively talented ...enough so ...but he plays the PP with their big line all the time not to mention a regular shift ....some have intimated that he's somewhat sheltered from the heavy going on that team ...his size is a factor ....maybe it's because he's a Bruin ...maybe it's the kind of coin he'll be asking ...if he gave Boston a home-town discount it would still be in the $7 +  mill and term range ...I can't see Montreal going near that whether he's a friend of Petry or not 

yeah ive gone cold on Krug, Boston has the money to sign him, if he's available there's a reason

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According to François Gagnon:

 a deal between the Habs
and Joel Edmundson is “imminent.”

 

Contract is believed to be 3-5 years with an AAV in the $3.5-4.0M

 

Not loving this if its true. Dont mind him in a 1 -2 year capacity, or 3+ years at a discount, but this looks like full value and full term.   We already have Chairot, Kulak, Mete etc.  There's only so many #4-7 slots to go around & a few of those guys are getting paid way too much for those spots. 
 

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