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8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I agree. I wouldn't add Karlsson without subtracting Weber. Will MB do that? No. But I think that's the right course of action. If EK really does want to sign here, you need to clear out salary and a spot on the right side of the D, and it just doesn't make sense to move the younger, more mobile, cheaper Petry rather than Weber.

I'm not sure I see MB moving Shaw any more... I think he was looking to move him two years ago, but if you look at the clique that is kind of running the leadership group, you're looking at the likes of Gallagher, Shaw, Tatar, Domi, Byron, and Danault who seem to be pretty tight together. Is Shaw expendable? Yes. Should we be concerned about his concussion history? Yes. Should we probably be trading him while his value is as high as it's ever been coming off a very good year? Yes again. But not sure I see MB making that move. Might also depend on how ready MB feels Suzuki is to take a top 9 RW role away from him.

Yeah any discussion of Webber leaving is just fantasy he is here till he wants to be done. so if Karlsson comes here it will be Petry who leaves. Afor Shaw well it is a tough one but i could see him getting moved for all the reasons you stated, he did drop Alzner after signing him so who knows?

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58 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yeah any discussion of Webber leaving is just fantasy he is here till he wants to be done. so if Karlsson comes here it will be Petry who leaves. Afor Shaw well it is a tough one but i could see him getting moved for all the reasons you stated, he did drop Alzner after signing him so who knows?

Karlsson is a dynamic player, my concern is his skating is definitely his greatest asset and his recent injuries have been groin related. Those are injuries that can be reoccurring. He also hasn't been a great defensive defenseman. I would say you would need to keep Weber and I would hate to lose Petry also. I do think he is great when 100% healthy , but even with Burns and a solid team in front he didn't put San Jose over the top. I would rather try to work on the LD or add someone like Panarin or Duchene. Even though I think a center has more value, I would probably try for Panarin first because we need a shooter a pure skilled goal scorer. I'd love to see Panarin on Domi's wing! 

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This team has been built around Price, so for that reason Weber is going no where. Really cannot believe the Karlsson rumors. Been to Ottawa, cannot believe anyone misses it so much they would give up millions of dollars. Main need is a LD, starting to lean toward Brodie as the guy we might go after. 

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12 hours ago, habsisme said:

I'm just stating for the record that I prefer Weber and his cap hit to what Karlsson will be so I home MB does not trade him. 

I do think MB is after MD and will overpay, and if that's the case I would prefer Karlsson and just play a right shot at LD

For one year or two years, I think you can make that argument. But Weber is signed for 7 more years. Debatable as to whether he plays them all, but if he retires, you still have no asset to show for it, and he's probably not tradeable in 3-4 years. Karlsson is 5 years younger. So for an equivalent 7-year term, I'd pay the extra 3M to have Karlsson instead. Karlsson might also help a PP where Weber hasn't been able to, and right now, trading Weber brings back another asset or two while Karlsson is free asset-wise as a UFA. So you can sign Karlsson and deal Weber for something else, whereas if you keep Weber and don't sign Karlsson, you're not bringing anything else in either. I think those factors play into it as much as just Weber-vs-Karlsson 1v1.

 

9 hours ago, xxdocxx said:

Hypothetically if we did sign Karlsson, Mike Babcock loves him (Weber) what do you think Toronto would offer.

 

 

8 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Good question, I'm not sure they can take on Weber's salary because they need to sign Marner, so you're basically looking at an extra ~20M against the Cap.

They want to get rid of Marleau and Zaitsev and still need to re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson, so my guess is getting Weber is out of the question for them at this point. It would have to be a pretty massive deal with plenty of pieces coming the other way (or several moves to free up Cap space first).

We'd have to take salary back. Toronto isn't the best trade partner for us at this moment TBH. We have a hole at LHD. Toronto has no one to trade us who fits our need. I could see us dealing Weber and taking Marleau back PLUS getting another asset like Nylander... that might be fair compensation-wise but it puts us in a cap conundrum ourselves then and it hasn't solved our LHD issue. I think we're better off trading with the likes of Philly, Carolina, Edmonton, Anaheim, Colorado, etc. who might be able to take Weber and give us something we need in return...

 

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2 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

Another factor is over the 7 years Weber will actually only be paid 24 million. Compared to 77 million for Karlsson. 

I really hope the Montreal Canadiens aren't concerned with salary since Forbes values them at $1.3 billion. Are you arguing that Montreal may be inclined to pass on Karlsson because of the salary bill?

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31 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I really hope the Montreal Canadiens aren't concerned with salary since Forbes values them at $1.3 billion. Are you arguing that Montreal may be inclined to pass on Karlsson because of the salary bill?

no but if Weber's game ever drops, its a really easy contract to move

I know no one will agree with me but I sincerely think Weber is a better defenseman then Karlsson. Everyone hates him because of PK, who he has consistently outplayed since the trade (excluding injury, which counts, Weber needs to stay healthy this year)

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10 hours ago, xxdocxx said:

Hypothetically if we did sign Karlsson, Mike Babcock loves him (Weber) what do you think Toronto would offer.

Babcock may love him but im not sold that Dubas would make the deal.  He loves advanced stats & Weber is not an advanced stat darling by any means.
 

9 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Good question, I'm not sure they can take on Weber's salary because they need to sign Marner, so you're basically looking at an extra ~20M against the Cap.

They want to get rid of Marleau and Zaitsev and still need to re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson, so my guess is getting Weber is out of the question for them at this point. It would have to be a pretty massive deal with plenty of pieces coming the other way (or several moves to free up Cap space first).

Yeah im not sure how they could swing it.  Back when people were proposing it, it would be a Weber for Nylander deal which  is pretty close in cap hit - but honestly i dont think we're interested in Nylander anymore and his value took a major hit last year (im sure it will go back up).


As mentioned, the deal would pretty much have to including bringing back Marleau and Zaitzev + whatever assets they offered - i dont think there's a fit there, even though im sure Babcock would love to have Man Mountain. 

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I really hope the Montreal Canadiens aren't concerned with salary since Forbes values them at $1.3 billion. Are you arguing that Montreal may be inclined to pass on Karlsson because of the salary bill?

Not at all, but you better be sure before you spend the extra 53 million. With Karlsson you would be really rolling the dice. Just seems like a lot more reasons to keep Weber then not.

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

no but if Weber's game ever drops, its a really easy contract to move

I know no one will agree with me but I sincerely think Weber is a better defenseman then Karlsson. Everyone hates him because of PK, who he has consistently outplayed since the trade (excluding injury, which counts, Weber needs to stay healthy this year)

I agree with you completely and from day one actually liked the PK Weber trade (another debate) someone mentioned he doesn't help the pp? Really, how many goals did he have on the pp, how many opponents want to get in front of his shot, his shot does cause rebounds also and sometimes puts defenders on the ice! the other team over plays him which does open up other players. What the pp doesn't have is another pure shooter. The reason Tampa has that great PP is the have several pure shooters. We need a Laine or Ovie type also. We have some scrappers like Gallager and Shaw good in front but we need at least one more shooter. The catch with Karlsson also is his health , a groin injury can be reoccurring and skating is what he's known for. He also has rarely played on the pk much. So you're investing a lot into a situational 5 on 5 or PP guy. You would still need to replace Weber's presence on the pk.

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9 hours ago, habsisme said:

no but if Weber's game ever drops, its a really easy contract to move

 

Doubtful at his age. If we don't trade him this year we're gonna be stuck with him.

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

personally i doubt that, he is very highly regarded across the league someone would take him on for sure.

especially a non cap team... 6 million for a top pairing d man, thats what second pairing d men make!

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9 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

personally i doubt that, he is very highly regarded across the league someone would take him on for sure.

 

7 hours ago, habsisme said:

especially a non cap team... 6 million for a top pairing d man, thats what second pairing d men make!

Agreed that Weber's reputation is still strong, and he had a decent year last season. I think he can and would still fetch good value in a trade NOW.

I think the two detriments to a trade are

1. Weber is useful now, but his value is on the downfall... so a team getting him would be doing so with the goal of winning a Cup in the next 2-3 seasons. I don't think a team like Vancouver or Ottawa or Phoenix would make much sense given how far away they are... I also don't think you can wait 2-3 years if you're going to trade him. A return on a trade today is probably already less than it would have been had we traded him two years ago.

2. Weber's cap hit is a problem going forward. It's fine now. 7.8M right now for Weber is not unreasonable. It's what happens if he doesn't retire, when you're paying 7.8M for a 2nd-paring guy in a couple of years. That might not be palatable to some teams.

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7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Agreed that Weber's reputation is still strong, and he had a decent year last season. I think he can and would still fetch good value in a trade NOW.

I think the two detriments to a trade are

1. Weber is useful now, but his value is on the downfall... so a team getting him would be doing so with the goal of winning a Cup in the next 2-3 seasons. I don't think a team like Vancouver or Ottawa or Phoenix would make much sense given how far away they are... I also don't think you can wait 2-3 years if you're going to trade him. A return on a trade today is probably already less than it would have been had we traded him two years ago.

2. Weber's cap hit is a problem going forward. It's fine now. 7.8M right now for Weber is not unreasonable. It's what happens if he doesn't retire, when you're paying 7.8M for a 2nd-paring guy in a couple of years. That might not be palatable to some teams.

I just can't see Weber playing the last 3 years of his contract. I'll be shocked if he does. He'll have 107 million made out of 110 million. But if he does, 1 million salary each year for the last 3 years. I think a team trying to hit the cap floor will gladly take an old veteran at that cost. And if he does retire that cap hit goes against Nashville. And besides I think he still has a couple good years left in him.

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FWIW: 

There was a bit of water thrown on the Karlsson fire yesterday though when TVA Sports' Renaud Lavoie said there was no chance of the Karlsson report being credible and that Karlsson hadn't even made a decision on if he had any interest in signing an extension with the San Jose Sharks. 

With the report continuing to make waves, another NHL insider decided to chime in on it, this time being TSN's Darren Dreger. 

Much like Lavoie, Dreger didn't buy too much into it. 

Dreger stated while on TSN 690 that Karlsson has a very low chance of signing with Montreal. 

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Here's another rumour, FWIW:

 

According to Marc-Antoine Godin of The Athletic, Bergevin took Cole Caufield out to dinner during the combine week.

Caufield is expected to go anywhere in the 7-12 range, however it's hard to predict as the draft is a complete wild card starting at the 3rd pick overall. 

While some fans would be disappointed to see the Canadiens' draft Caufield because he's not a defenseman and an undersized winger, he's something the Canadiens need badly. 

An incredible sniper with a beautiful finish. 

Caufield scores at an incredible almost goal per game pace no matter where he's played. 

While he might only stand 5'7" and weigh 163lbs, he's lean and strong and should continue to get stronger as he's committed to the NCAA next season. 

 

Stats can be found here:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=209488

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17 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

FWIW: 

There was a bit of water thrown on the Karlsson fire yesterday though when TVA Sports' Renaud Lavoie said there was no chance of the Karlsson report being credible and that Karlsson hadn't even made a decision on if he had any interest in signing an extension with the San Jose Sharks. 

With the report continuing to make waves, another NHL insider decided to chime in on it, this time being TSN's Darren Dreger. 

Much like Lavoie, Dreger didn't buy too much into it. 

Dreger stated while on TSN 690 that Karlsson has a very low chance of signing with Montreal. 

I find the original report to be a bit more credible than others just because there is reports that the Karleson's have a child who passed away andis buried in the Ottawa area if true I can totally see them wanting to move back. I just want to reiterate I don't know how true it is or not

Edited by campabee82
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1 minute ago, kinot-2 said:

Here's another rumour, FWIW:

 

According to Marc-Antoine Godin of The Athletic, Bergevin took Cole Caufield out to dinner during the combine week.

Caufield is expected to go anywhere in the 7-12 range, however it's hard to predict as the draft is a complete wild card starting at the 3rd pick overall. 

While some fans would be disappointed to see the Canadiens' draft Caufield because he's not a defenseman and an undersized winger, he's something the Canadiens need badly. 

An incredible sniper with a beautiful finish. 

Caufield scores at an incredible almost goal per game pace no matter where he's played. 

While he might only stand 5'7" and weigh 163lbs, he's lean and strong and should continue to get stronger as he's committed to the NCAA next season. 

 

Stats can be found here:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=209488

the way we've been drafting recently, I'm good with whatever they decide

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1 minute ago, habsisme said:

the way we've been drafting recently, I'm good with whatever they decide

I think that a lot of teams will shy away from drafting him because of his size (similar to BG), so there's that. 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

I find the original report to be a bit more credible than others just because there is reports that the Karleson's have a child who passed away andis buried in the Ottawa area if true I can totally see them wanting to move back. I just want to reiterate I don't know how true it is or not

So I just fact checked this and according to cbc yes the Karleson's had a son pass away in March of 2018. So the rumours may hold more validity to them wanting to move back to the area to be closer to family

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Just throwing this  out there, for no particular reason :P .

"Corey Perry’s decorated run with the Anaheim Ducks may be nearing an end with a possible trade or contract buyout looming, veteran TSN insider Pierre LeBrun reports.

Perry, 34, has two seasons remaining on a contract that pays him US$8.6 million per year. The well-connected LeBrun strongly suggested that his 998-game tenure in Anaheim – a Stanley Cup, an NHL MVP award and 776 career points to go along with 1,000-plus penalty minutes – will end.

There are two options, LeBrun noted: A trade, with Anaheim paying some of Perry’s salary over the next two seasons, or a contract buyout that would give Perry less than the $17.2 million remaining on his deal, but also allow him to become an unrestricted free agent.

 A buyout could allow him to sign a cheaper-than-usual deal with a competing team that has little room under the salary cap – a list that could include Toronto, Tampa Bay or Nashville."

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19 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Here's another rumour, FWIW:

 

According to Marc-Antoine Godin of The Athletic, Bergevin took Cole Caufield out to dinner during the combine week.

Caufield is expected to go anywhere in the 7-12 range, however it's hard to predict as the draft is a complete wild card starting at the 3rd pick overall. 

While some fans would be disappointed to see the Canadiens' draft Caufield because he's not a defenseman and an undersized winger, he's something the Canadiens need badly. 

An incredible sniper with a beautiful finish. 

Caufield scores at an incredible almost goal per game pace no matter where he's played. 

While he might only stand 5'7" and weigh 163lbs, he's lean and strong and should continue to get stronger as he's committed to the NCAA next season. 

 

Stats can be found here:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=209488

No way this guy makes it to 15 pick 

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9 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Just throwing this  out there, for no particular reason :P .

"Corey Perry’s decorated run with the Anaheim Ducks may be nearing an end with a possible trade or contract buyout looming, veteran TSN insider Pierre LeBrun reports.

Perry, 34, has two seasons remaining on a contract that pays him US$8.6 million per year. The well-connected LeBrun strongly suggested that his 998-game tenure in Anaheim – a Stanley Cup, an NHL MVP award and 776 career points to go along with 1,000-plus penalty minutes – will end.

There are two options, LeBrun noted: A trade, with Anaheim paying some of Perry’s salary over the next two seasons, or a contract buyout that would give Perry less than the $17.2 million remaining on his deal, but also allow him to become an unrestricted free agent.

 A buyout could allow him to sign a cheaper-than-usual deal with a competing team that has little room under the salary cap – a list that could include Toronto, Tampa Bay or Nashville."

Wouldn't want Perry here too much like Marchand highly skilled but also too much of an idiot to like as a fan of the sport. My preference is that players like Perry, Marchand and Avery are driven out of the league

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28 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Wouldn't want Perry here too much like Marchand highly skilled but also too much of an idiot to like as a fan of the sport. My preference is that players like Perry, Marchand and Avery are driven out of the league

I wouldn't give up anything for him, but i'd rather add him for 2 years than MD. It doesn't hurt our cap when we will need the money

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