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46 minutes ago, maas_art said:

According to François Gagnon:

 a deal between the Habs
and Joel Edmundson is “imminent.”

 

Contract is believed to be 3-5 years with an AAV in the $3.5-4.0M

 

Not loving this if its true. Dont mind him in a 1 -2 year capacity, or 3+ years at a discount, but this looks like full value and full term.   We already have Chairot, Kulak, Mete etc.  There's only so many #4-7 slots to go around & a few of those guys are getting paid way too much for those spots. 
 

ugh that would be another bad deal, why does he fall for these Dmen? And who is moving out?

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

According to François Gagnon:

 a deal between the Habs
and Joel Edmundson is “imminent.”

 

Contract is believed to be 3-5 years with an AAV in the $3.5-4.0M

 

Not loving this if its true. Dont mind him in a 1 -2 year capacity, or 3+ years at a discount, but this looks like full value and full term.   We already have Chairot, Kulak, Mete etc.  There's only so many #4-7 slots to go around & a few of those guys are getting paid way too much for those spots. 
 

Haven't really paid a lot of attention on J.E. and admittedly know very little about him but i can't shake this feeling of another Alzner type deal in the works. Somebody please put my mind at ease.

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10 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Haven't really paid a lot of attention on J.E. and admittedly know very little about him but i can't shake this feeling of another Alzner type deal in the works. Somebody please put my mind at ease.

Edmundson can actually skate on both legs, and actually penalty kill. He’s not a top pairing guy by any means but he’s more than adequate until we wait for some of our prospects to develop. If 3-5 years then he’s clearly a replacement for Chiarot who could be dealt or left exposed in the Kraken Draft next year. 

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12 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Haven't really paid a lot of attention on J.E. and admittedly know very little about him but i can't shake this feeling of another Alzner type deal in the works. Somebody please put my mind at ease.

Edmundson is going to end up being a lot like Alzner or Douglass Murray or Schlemko or Benn or Chiarot or Bouillon or Gilbert or Drewiske or Folin or Allen or Nesterov or Redmond or Davidson. I bet people have even forgotten about some of these players, but there is a long line of defencemen that Bergevin has acquired that have limited to no offensive potential, who are washed up, or who just can't plain move the puck. And while one or two (Chiarot, Benn) have been passable had they been played in 3rd pairing roles consistently, they've all been valued well above what they actually bring and are 100% completely replaceable. You lose a Murray, you bring in a Drewiske for cheap. You lose Benn and Schlemko and you can find a Chiarot and Folin to take their spots. There is really no reason to go out and give up assets to acquire these players and zero reason to dish out big money or long-term deals to them.

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Other things we learned today from Bergevin's interview:

- Says Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, and Romanov are pretty close to untouchable.

- Says Price won't be traded and won't be exposed in the expansion draft and you can count on that.

- Says team's priority as far as locking up free agents goes will be Gallagher and Petry (which doesn't say much for Tatar or Danault).

- Says he doesn't think acquiring Edmundson means the Habs have to trade a D man. He says a team needs 7 D men on their roster and he counts them out as Weber, Petry, Chiarot as his top 3, followed by Edmundson and Romanov and then Kulak and Mete to fill out the line-up. He states that Juulsen can't be counted on to stay healthy and that Fleury can easily go back to Laval next year without waivers. He says with his current D corps, he doesn't feel he needs to add anyone else either. So it really sounds like he is okay, if nothing falls his way via trade, with going into next year with two RHD and five LHD on his roster and with all five lefties essentially being 3rd-pairing players in an ideal world. Also sounds like the younger guys (Juulsen, Fleury) aren't going to be given an equal shot at jobs despite the fact they're natural RHD. He didn't even mention Brook. So once again, it sounds like MB has a delusional opinion of his D corps, how much lifting Weber and Petry are able to do in their mid-30's, and how useful all these bigger, slower, non-offensive D men are. He didn't say it, but his implication was that Chiarot and Edmunson will both be in the top 4, and that would be yet another disaster from Bergevin.

- Says he doesn't want young guys like Caufield, Struble, or Harris turning pro this year and then not playing any hockey until November or December. He says if there's no NCAA season, he'd like Caufield to go and play in Europe from September on so he doesn't miss ice time. Says Ylonen has already been loaned to a Finnish team but can be recalled once the NHL/AHL season starts.

So overall, it sounds like MB still believes he can win now, won't look to build anything for the future, and likes his D comprised of mainly third-pairing journeymen. Not a good look.

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13 minutes ago, claremont said:

With Jonas Brodin’s signing and his NMC, Dumba will barring any permissions by he or Spurgeon / Suter, will be left unprotected in the Kraken ED. I suspect Dumba is still on the trading block, or some sort of off the books promise is made for the Kraken not to claim him. 

Don't see any way Seattle wouldn't want to claim Dumba, so he's almost certainly going to be traded.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Other things we learned today from Bergevin's interview:

- Says Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, and Romanov are pretty close to untouchable 

- Says team's priority as far as locking up free agents goes will be Gallagher and Petry (which doesn't say much for Tatar or Danault).

-  He didn't say it, but his implication was that Chiarot and Edmunson will both be in the top 4, and that would be yet another disaster from Bergevin.

- Says he doesn't want young guys like Caufield, Struble, or Harris turning pro this year and then not playing any hockey until November or December. He says if there's no NCAA season, he'd like Caufield to go and play in Europe from September on so he doesn't miss ice time. Says Ylonen has already been loaned to a Finnish team but can be recalled once the NHL/AHL season starts.

So overall, it sounds like MB still believes he can win now, won't look to build anything for the future, and likes his D comprised of mainly third-pairing journeymen. Not a good look.

Someone peed in your corn flakes - that’s a little harsh Ted! I’m far from a trumpet for Bergevin but four picks in the first 2 rounds with the previous year picks plus Norlinder is IMO some form of building for the future. I’ll try to be   Optimistic but perhaps they have seen something in Romanov at practice, where they believe he can be solid on the power play as a LHD.
Definition of winning now - what’s your expectation? I find it virtually impossible that any GM could take this barely top 16 team and get them into a winning top 4 Cup contender. Isn’t all we can really ask is for a winning progression into the top 8, winning at the very minimum 1 playoff round? Laine, Hall, Krug even if added could not push us consistently into the top 4 until we add more depth. 
I totally get the window is closing on Price and Weber in the next 3 years, and impatience. 

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8 hours ago, claremont said:

Someone peed in your corn flakes - that’s a little harsh Ted! I’m far from a trumpet for Bergevin but four picks in the first 2 rounds with the previous year picks plus Norlinder is IMO some form of building for the future. I’ll try to be   Optimistic but perhaps they have seen something in Romanov at practice, where they believe he can be solid on the power play as a LHD.
Definition of winning now - what’s your expectation? I find it virtually impossible that any GM could take this barely top 16 team and get them into a winning top 4 Cup contender. Isn’t all we can really ask is for a winning progression into the top 8, winning at the very minimum 1 playoff round? Laine, Hall, Krug even if added could not push us consistently into the top 4 until we add more depth. 
I totally get the window is closing on Price and Weber in the next 3 years, and impatience. 

I've said this before, and maybe you weren't around as a poster then, but I think a team needs to pick a Cup window and build around that. There are soon to be 32 teams in the league and it's not sufficient to just be a fringe playoff team year in year out. You need to aim to be a top 5 team in the league to give yourself a realistic shot at a Cup for a 3-5 year window. In Bergevin's case, what I mean by not building for the future, is that he insists on leaving himself in no man's land. He sticks it out with older players like Weber, Price, and Petry but has repeatedly said he won't sacrifice key prospects or high picks to add to that core. And at the same time, he's also made it clear he won't trade those older stars in order to add pieces that will be core players to go along with the likes of Suzuki and so on. He's basically come out as saying he's fine with building to try to get into the playoffs.

I think it's fair to say a GM should be given 4-5 years to turn a team into a true contender, but MB is going into his ninth and I don't feel like we're further ahead. Sure, we have young prospects like Suzuki, Norlinder, Romanov, and Primeau now, but when he started we had a young stud trio of Price, Subban, and Pacioretty, a premier two-way center in Plekanec, a vet quarterbacking D man in Markov, and two highly-touted prospects in Gallagher and Galchenyuk, and we completely blew the window to win with that team.

So I'll come back to what I've said the past few years... if you think you can win with Weber and Price, you can't do nothing. You can't be content to play Chiarot on your top pairing or simply add Dwight King or Steve Ott or Nesterov or Schlemko and believe that adding quantity of depth is going to put you over the top. And if you're not willing to make an actual push to be a top 5 team, then what are you doing sitting on assets like Weber or Petry when you can still trade them for valuable pieces going forward? MB simply doesn't want to commit and so he's neither building to win now nor putting his best foot forward to winning in 2 years or 5 years. Every team has got prospects. What he doesn't have is a plan.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I've said this before, and maybe you weren't around as a poster then, but I think a team needs to pick a Cup window and build around that. There are soon to be 32 teams in the league and it's not sufficient to just be a fringe playoff team year in year out. You need to aim to be a top 5 team in the league to give yourself a realistic shot at a Cup for a 3-5 year window. In Bergevin's case, what I mean by not building for the future, is that he insists on leaving himself in no man's land. He sticks it out with older players like Weber, Price, and Petry but has repeatedly said he won't sacrifice key prospects or high picks to add to that core. And at the same time, he's also made it clear he won't trade those older stars in order to add pieces that will be core players to go along with the likes of Suzuki and so on. He's basically come out as saying he's fine with building to try to get into the playoffs.

I think it's fair to say a GM should be given 4-5 years to turn a team into a true contender, but MB is going into his ninth and I don't feel like we're further ahead. Sure, we have young prospects like Suzuki, Norlinder, Romanov, and Primeau now, but when he started we had a young stud trio of Price, Subban, and Pacioretty, a premier two-way center in Plekanec, a vet quarterbacking D man in Markov, and two highly-touted prospects in Gallagher and Galchenyuk, and we completely blew the window to win with that team.

So I'll come back to what I've said the past few years... if you think you can win with Weber and Price, you can't do nothing. You can't be content to play Chiarot on your top pairing or simply add Dwight King or Steve Ott or Nesterov or Schlemko and believe that adding quantity of depth is going to put you over the top. And if you're not willing to make an actual push to be a top 5 team, then what are you doing sitting on assets like Weber or Petry when you can still trade them for valuable pieces going forward? MB simply doesn't want to commit and so he's neither building to win now nor putting his best foot forward to winning in 2 years or 5 years. Every team has got prospects. What he doesn't have is a plan.

Ok those are very fair comments. This is the first year in a long time that I have not been as jaded about the Habs continuing on mediocrity. I find that it is very easy to be deeply critical and far more intellectually challenging to look for some positives. I don’t disagree with your observations but can only hope that our armchair GM thinking permeates to the top. It’s also the 2nd or third year that I have been excited about a draft which is deep with forward scoring and power forwards which imo we desperately need. It is going to be very interesting to watch the Islanders (GM of the year Lou), and Tampa’s BriseBois unload players in a cap room fire sale to be able to sign Barzal / Pulock and Cirelli/ Sergachev. They achieved their windows and Tampa may be as close to a continual contender even as they touch some of their deep core, and both teams have little in future draft picks, so I suspect their assets will be traded for picks in this cap crunch.

I will parrot my broken record again imo 1) Build more youth thru the draft - scoring, and maybe a RHD in later 2nd or 3rd round but round 5-7 picks are virtually useless 2) Be very careful on NMC long term contracts - I see so many teams with way more shitty contracts than us Philly, Canes, Leafs, Panthers, Nashville, Islanders  so you can’t keep everyone. Decisions on Gally, Danault, Tatar, Domi, Tatar are critical 3) Learn from your mistakes on Alzner and likely Drouin - there’s no single Silver bullet solution. This fan base needs to see progression 

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6 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

So I'll come back to what I've said the past few years... if you think you can win with Weber and Price, you can't do nothing. You can't be content to play Chiarot on your top pairing or simply add Dwight King or Steve Ott or Nesterov or Schlemko and believe that adding quantity of depth is going to put you over the top. And if you're not willing to make an actual push to be a top 5 team, then what are you doing sitting on assets like Weber or Petry when you can still trade them for valuable pieces going forward? MB simply doesn't want to commit and so he's neither building to win now nor putting his best foot forward to winning in 2 years or 5 years. Every team has got prospects. What he doesn't have is a plan.

This x100.

I would rather that MB had decided, a few years back, to go in one direction or the other.  "Just go for it" and trade off assets. Sign Pacioretty Long term, move younger players, picks and prospects. Bring in someone like Suter or Keith to play next to Weber - and just take that shot.  OR (my preference) do what he did - but follow through. Trade Weber, trade price, trade Petry (maybe not all 3). Stockpile picks, prospects, young players.  But this no-man's land isnt helping.

Interestingly, on TVA sports yesterday he said Carey Price wont be traded and wont be exposed in the ED but he also made a point of calling Suzuki, JK and Romanov "Untouchable."    No mention of Weber.  No mention of Petry.  In the past, he has lumped Weber into that group. Does that mean there's a sliver of hope we will move Weber?   Its no secret that I am, and have always been, a Shea Weber fan but his value will not get higher than it is now. If we can actually move him for young quality player(s) that is the ultimate coup for a GM.   I imagine it was an oversight (or, weber isnt 'untouchable' but MB would want way more than fair value for him) but is the first time its happened so could be significant.    What about Weber + Domi to Minny for Dumba + Fiala?  :rolleyes::rolleyes: Hey I can dream.  Minny reunites one of the most dominant d pairs in the past 20 years...too bad they're both old now :P

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19 hours ago, claremont said:

Edmundson can actually skate on both legs, and actually penalty kill. He’s not a top pairing guy by any means but he’s more than adequate until we wait for some of our prospects to develop. If 3-5 years then he’s clearly a replacement for Chiarot who could be dealt or left exposed in the Kraken Draft next year. 

   yeah it will be interesting to see who goes  .Montreal might actually protect Kulak for his 2 years at 1.8 mill....if Seattle pick one or the other of Chiarot or Edmunston (if he's signed) you only lose one of the same type of player  

....

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So rumours are flying that the wild are shopping Dumba as well as looking for a goalie, I would love to see an offer sent to the Wild for say Allen + Mete for Stallock + Dumba.

 

Only Staylock because I believe he is relatively cheap and would be a serviceable back up,  Dumba would instanl help our D

 

This would allow us to keep Domi and play him at wing

 

Thoughts !???

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7 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

   yeah it will be interesting to see who goes  .Montreal might actually protect Kulak for his 2 years at 1.8 mill....if Seattle pick one or the other of Chiarot or Edmunston (if he's signed) you only lose one of the same type of player  

....

Honestly, I think Kulak may be gone this summer.   I think the trading for Edmundson (assuming he will sign) is as transparent as it comes:  MB & CJ want a top 4 thats big and "hard to play against" 

I think their plan right now is:  
Chairot-Weber
Edmundson-Petry

The lower pair will be Romanov-Fleury/Juulsen

the 7th-8th dmen will be one of those guys above + Mete. 

 

I think Kulak is the odd man out - which seems crazy to me since he was arguably our best LHD in the playin/playoffs. 

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8 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

So rumours are flying that the wild are shopping Dumba as well as looking for a goalie, I would love to see an offer sent to the Wild for say Allen + Mete for Stallock + Dumba.

 

Only Staylock because I believe he is relatively cheap and would be a serviceable back up,  Dumba would instanl help our D

 

This would allow us to keep Domi and play him at wing

 

Thoughts !???

Its a valid proposal for us but Im not sure MB has any intentions of moving Allen.     The other problem of course is that Dumba is RD and you arent playing him on the 3rd pair so one of Weber or Petry has to be moved, and im not convinced MB would do that, despite not listing either on his "untouchables" list yesterday. 

From the wild's standpoint, i think they could do better for Dumba.  Allen is a good goalie but has shown he can struggle a bit as a starter.   He's also 30 and only signed 1 year.   I suspect if they moved Dumba for a goalie they'd want an up-and-coming 'tender like Tristan Jarry or Carter Hart.   Im pretty sure Hart isnt available but there's likely someone out there that fits the bill.  Goalies, except for those with reputations like Price, have shown a notoriously low trade value in this league.   You'd probably have to do Domi + Allen to get Dumba & i know your proposal was to circumvent having to lose Domi in the first place. 

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12 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Its a valid proposal for us but Im not sure MB has any intentions of moving Allen.     The other problem of course is that Dumba is RD and you arent playing him on the 3rd pair so one of Weber or Petry has to be moved, and im not convinced MB would do that, despite not listing either on his "untouchables" list yesterday. 

From the wild's standpoint, i think they could do better for Dumba.  Allen is a good goalie but has shown he can struggle a bit as a starter.   He's also 30 and only signed 1 year.   I suspect if they moved Dumba for a goalie they'd want an up-and-coming 'tender like Tristan Jarry or Carter Hart.   Im pretty sure Hart isnt available but there's likely someone out there that fits the bill.  Goalies, except for those with reputations like Price, have shown a notoriously low trade value in this league.   You'd probably have to do Domi + Allen to get Dumba & i know your proposal was to circumvent having to lose Domi in the first place. 

yeah i never understood the Dumba roomers, we dont need another RD

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

yeah i never understood the Dumba roomers, we dont need another RD

except we do... MB said himself that Juulsen is a huge health question and that Fleury may not be ready quite yet. That leaves you Weber and Petry on the right side. The former is getting up there in age, the latter is a UFA and also no spring chicken. It would be smart to acquire Dumba, especially knowing the Wild are high on Domi, a player you seem to not be very high on and don't have a need for. This permits you to have an asset you can keep for 5 years in your top 4 and trade one of Weber or Petry to fill another hole while they still have value.

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Honestly, I think Kulak may be gone this summer.   I think the trading for Edmundson (assuming he will sign) is as transparent as it comes:  MB & CJ want a top 4 thats big and "hard to play against" 

I think their plan right now is:  
Chairot-Weber
Edmundson-Petry

The lower pair will be Romanov-Fleury/Juulsen

the 7th-8th dmen will be one of those guys above + Mete. 

 

I think Kulak is the odd man out - which seems crazy to me since he was arguably our best LHD in the playin/playoffs. 

i would keep Kulak as well he was really good in the playoffs one would hope he turned a corner! for me the odd man out is Mete he is too small he get knocked off the puck to easy. i like him but he will never be more than he is.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

except we do... MB said himself that Juulsen is a huge health question and that Fleury may not be ready quite yet. That leaves you Weber and Petry on the right side. The former is getting up there in age, the latter is a UFA and also no spring chicken. It would be smart to acquire Dumba, especially knowing the Wild are high on Domi, a player you seem to not be very high on and don't have a need for. This permits you to have an asset you can keep for 5 years in your top 4 and trade one of Weber or Petry to fill another hole while they still have value.

I have to agree here he would be a great bridge player to get some depth on the right side.

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On 9/16/2020 at 11:48 PM, ramcharger440 said:

I have to agree here he would be a great bridge player to get some depth on the right side.

I second this... but have a gut feeling Bergevin will want to stay away from him because of his actions regarding systemic racism. Bergevin does not seem to like players who are more vocal than others (i.e.- like Subban)

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1 hour ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I second this... but have a gut feeling Bergevin will want to stay away from him because of his actions regarding systemic racism. Bergevin does not seem to like players who are more vocal than others (i.e.- like Subban)

I do think there is a distinct difference though. Dumba has came out against a national issue. Where as Subban it was more of a Subban first team second all about me issue.  

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16 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I do think there is a distinct difference though. Dumba has came out against a national issue. Where as Subban it was more of a Subban first team second all about me issue.  

I dont see Dumba coming here but I definitely don't think its for any kind of character issue

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