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Why would we want to make any move for Stamkos??  His injury history is concerning, and what we would have to give up to land him would be extreme.  I would much rather see us go after a younger player with less baggage.  Barzal would be hands down #1, laine and to a much lesser extent Hall

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1 minute ago, 26NCounting said:

Why would we want to make any move for Stamkos??  His injury history is concerning, and what we would have to give up to land him would be extreme.  I would much rather see us go after a younger player with less baggage.  Laine, Barzal and to a much lesser extent Hall

Agreed. Never really a big fan of Stamkos. Not saying he isn't a great player, just not a fan. Even though they say talks for Laine are non-existent, he would still be the best match for the Habs, imo. He checks all the boxes. With the Montreal defense being stronger, and no excuses for Carey Price, the goaltending will be better. With Laine on first or second line, and powerplay, we have the assets on the ice to compensate for any defensive deficiencies.  & ultimately, we can only dress 18 skaters, so, let's upgrade the quality of them. We have the assets to make it happen. & again, there will always be 3rd & 4rth liners available on the UFA market.

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55 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

Barzal would be hands down #1

I just dont see why the Isles would trade him? If they even considered it I think you'd have to include Suzuki and Romanov + to get the discussion started.  I know they (the Isles) are possibly in some cap trouble (they have sooooo many players with NTC!!) but they do have a few options they could move as salary dumps if necessary and they do have cap space to sign him (just nobody else until they move some contracts).

I could see us trying an offer sheet before a trade tbh. 

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21 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I just dont see why the Isles would trade him? If they even considered it I think you'd have to include Suzuki and Romanov + to get the discussion started.  I know they (the Isles) are possibly in some cap trouble (they have sooooo many players with NTC!!) but they do have a few options they could move as salary dumps if necessary and they do have cap space to sign him (just nobody else until they move some contracts).

I could see us trying an offer sheet before a trade tbh. 

Yeah I ment the offer sheet route, the assets that would need to be moved to acquire him wouldn't make the deal worth it IMO

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25 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I just dont see why the Isles would trade him? If they even considered it I think you'd have to include Suzuki and Romanov + to get the discussion started.  I know they (the Isles) are possibly in some cap trouble (they have sooooo many players with NTC!!) but they do have a few options they could move as salary dumps if necessary and they do have cap space to sign him (just nobody else until they move some contracts).

I could see us trying an offer sheet before a trade tbh. 

I think we could also see another offer sheet from Bergevin this year. He never addressed the need for elite talent last year, and I imagine he'll be looking for a top-six scoring forward to complement the team. Who he might go after? I have no idea.

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16 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

Yeah I ment the offer sheet route, the assets that would need to be moved to acquire him wouldn't make the deal worth it IMO

 

13 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think we could also see another offer sheet from Bergevin this year. He never addressed the need for elite talent last year, and I imagine he'll be looking for a top-six scoring forward to complement the team. Who he might go after? I have no idea.

Im not opposed to an offer sheet but I think he handled it all wrong last year.   A successful offer-sheet pretty much *has* to be an overpayment.  I believe they felt like the front loaded contract would have been too much for Carolina's owner to handle but it was always a luke-warm offer. 

In Barzal's case anything under $8.1m means 1st 2nd 3rd. I cant see any way they wont match

$8.1m - 10.1m  is 2 firsts, one 2nd and one 3rd.    I think they *might* consider this, especially if the money is at the higher end. 

$10.1m+ 4 first rounders.      Thats a tough one.  I think they (the isles) let him walk. Thats solid compensation and they have cap issues to deal with.  From our perspective, if its a run like 2009-12  (LeBlanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk)  no big deal. But what if those 4 draft picks were like our 4 most recent? (Caufield, Kokaniemi, Poehling, Sergachev)?  

 

Ultimately I think the $10m+ would scare off MB because his whole cap structure would be messed up. But I could see him going after someone who is on the cusp of being a break-out player. A guy whose team wants to pay him $5-6m and MB offers >$8.1 to. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

 

Im not opposed to an offer sheet but I think he handled it all wrong last year.   A successful offer-sheet pretty much *has* to be an overpayment.  I believe they felt like the front loaded contract would have been too much for Carolina's owner to handle but it was always a luke-warm offer. 

In Barzal's case anything under $8.1m means 1st 2nd 3rd. I cant see any way they wont match

$8.1m - 10.1m  is 2 firsts, one 2nd and one 3rd.    I think they *might* consider this, especially if the money is at the higher end. 

$10.1m+ 4 first rounders.      Thats a tough one.  I think they (the isles) let him walk. Thats solid compensation and they have cap issues to deal with.  From our perspective, if its a run like 2009-12  (LeBlanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk)  no big deal. But what if those 4 draft picks were like our 4 most recent? (Caufield, Kokaniemi, Poehling, Sergachev)?  

 

Ultimately I think the $10m+ would scare off MB because his whole cap structure would be messed up. But I could see him going after someone who is on the cusp of being a break-out player. A guy whose team wants to pay him $5-6m and MB offers >$8.1 to. 

 

 

 

 

Haven't really looked at the stats but I am really not sure the Isles are in a position to match an offer of 8mil per.  I know they have a few FA to sign this year so it might be a crap shoot.  Florida always likes to give players away for next to nothing maybe we can hose them LOL

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4 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

Haven't really looked at the stats but I am really not sure the Isles are in a position to match an offer of 8mil per.  I know they have a few FA to sign this year so it might be a crap shoot.  Florida always likes to give players away for next to nothing maybe we can hose them LOL

For sure. There's some options.  One thing that MB could try, if he's got any sort of relationship with Lamoriello is to say "look Lou, we're submitting an offer sheet to Barzal today. Lets talk"

Until the team has matched the OS, there's an opportunity for a trade.  Lets say you offer him $9m a year - if the isles let him walk its 2 firsts a 2nd and a 3rd.  Would any team trade Barzal for that? probably not. 

But what about Domi + Kulak 1st + 2nd + 3rd ?   

Domi is no Matt Barzal, but he can cover some of the missing points. He'll be several million a year cheaper.    Kulak is quality 4-5 dman on a good contract.   

Probably not enough still but with the OS in place you have more leverage & a sense of urgency.   Then you can trade Danault for a winger.


Barzal - Suzuki - Kotkaniemi - Evans/Poehling is like the best centre group we've had since the early 90s. 

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I can't for the life of me imagine MB ever using the offer sheet option again. His last attempt was an immense failure and pretty much made him look foolish. It was a weak attempt that tied his hands (draft picks) in the trade market for a solid week, as the Canes held them up before matching. Unless the offer is worth the other teams time they'll find a way to match. In other words, go big or stay away.

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2 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I can't for the life of me imagine MB ever using the offer sheet option again. His last attempt was an immense failure and pretty much made him look foolish. It was a weak attempt that tied his hands (draft picks) in the trade market for a solid week, as the Canes held them up before matching. Unless the offer is worth the other teams time they'll find a way to match. In other words, go big or stay away.

The majority of MB's decisions make him look foolish!!  If he doesn't do something this year I am pretty sure he will be sent packing, with that said I hope he doesn't blow our entire future to keep his job

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Ottawa rumoured to be listening to offers for the 5th overall pick. I wonder if they'd consider Domi + 16ova for 5th?  I mean obviously you'd wait to see who was taken 1-4 but if you believe the guy you want at 5th is still available, it might be worth considering.

Does Ottawa make this trade?  They arent competing for a couple more years so it isnt vital their 1st rounder (2nd pick in the top 5) is nhl-ready right away. Domi is young enough he could give them good value for some time... 

I dont think they are considering moving 3rd ova. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Ottawa rumoured to be listening to offers for the 5th overall pick. I wonder if they'd consider Domi + 16ova for 5th?  I mean obviously you'd wait to see who was taken 1-4 but if you believe the guy you want at 5th is still available, it might be worth considering.

Does Ottawa make this trade?  They arent competing for a couple more years so it isnt vital their 1st rounder (2nd pick in the top 5) is nhl-ready right away. Domi is young enough he could give them good value for some time... 

I dont think they are considering moving 3rd ova. 

 

 

yeah i heard its available too, but im not sure Domi would be enough to move up that far in the first, but we could add more draft picks to that. The thing is I'm thinking Ottawa wants a young start player straight up for the pick, at least thats what I would want

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50 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Ottawa rumoured to be listening to offers for the 5th overall pick. I wonder if they'd consider Domi + 16ova for 5th?  I mean obviously you'd wait to see who was taken 1-4 but if you believe the guy you want at 5th is still available, it might be worth considering.

Does Ottawa make this trade?  They arent competing for a couple more years so it isnt vital their 1st rounder (2nd pick in the top 5) is nhl-ready right away. Domi is young enough he could give them good value for some time... 

I dont think they are considering moving 3rd ova. 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, habsisme said:

yeah i heard its available too, but im not sure Domi would be enough to move up that far in the first, but we could add more draft picks to that. The thing is I'm thinking Ottawa wants a young start player straight up for the pick, at least thats what I would want

Agreed, there probably looking for something a little bigger than Domi, but it wouldn’t hurt to kick the tires. And would it really matter that much who went 1-4? It would almost assuredly be one of Rosi, Drysdale or Perfetti at 5th. Any of those would be nice. It would particularly be nice to add Drysdale to the cupboards, but I don’t think you loose with either of the three.

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3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think we could also see another offer sheet from Bergevin this year. He never addressed the need for elite talent last year, and I imagine he'll be looking for a top-six scoring forward to complement the team. Who he might go after? I have no idea.

 

20 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I can't for the life of me imagine MB ever using the offer sheet option again. His last attempt was an immense failure and pretty much made him look foolish. It was a weak attempt that tied his hands (draft picks) in the trade market for a solid week, as the Canes held them up before matching. Unless the offer is worth the other teams time they'll find a way to match. In other words, go big or stay away.

I took a look at some of the RFA's that Bergevin might consider to go bold and big on with an offer sheet, as it's been clearly stated in a news article that he's trying to trade Charles Hudon as the team will not renew Hudon and for Charles sake, trying to find a job opportunity in the nhl for him before he goes to Europe. I was trying to find teams without much cap room and LTIR relief and keep it real (an example would have been Chicago Black hawks Dominic Kubalik but when adding back Seabrook / Shaw's LTIR amounts, hawks would have plenty of cap room to match). The other teams are as follows:

1) Islanders currently cap constrained with  few draft picks and $9M of cap room- most of which will go to Barzal barring a trade. RHD Ryan Pulock (10g, 25a) would be a good target (I know he's not a scoring forward), and likely command $4.2M plus (thus first and a third picks). I doubt with our LD development that LHD Devon Toews (6g, 22a) is worthy of being targeted. I sure would like some trade package to pick up their RHD prospect Noah Dobson.

2) Columbus - with the likely LTIR injury placement of Brandon Dubinsky, the jackets will have enough cap room ($7m + $5.9M) to resign Josh Anderson and Pierre-Luc Dubois so why bother - it's a likely match

3) Tampa Bay - Anthony Cirelli but he is a centre and Tampa is likely to trade some of their other core players to retain this 22 yr old (16, 28a). Not likely

4) Laffs - Ilya Mikheyev (LW - 8g, 15a in 39 games). Doesn't make an impact for me other than to screw up the leafs cap and make them pay more. I think he is loyal to the Laffs after his wrist injury from a skate last year. Travis Dermott is a LHD and Frederick Gauthier is a 4th line centre at best 

5) Canucks - have $14.3 cap room and need to sign a big name goalie, plus probably upgrade on a defenseman to get more competitive. RW Jake Virtanen would be the only target (18g, 18a). They will likely match as they would seem to have enough cap room

6) Vegas - $5M of cap room - sure let's target Nick Cousins......ok just checking if anyone is reading but they have no RFA forwards of any value

Conclusion - The offer sheet route is very improbable unless I missed one, as all the other teams had sufficient cap room or no scoring forward with any stats worthy of an offer.

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Ottawa rumoured to be listening to offers for the 5th overall pick. I wonder if they'd consider Domi + 16ova for 5th?  I mean obviously you'd wait to see who was taken 1-4 but if you believe the guy you want at 5th is still available, it might be worth considering.

Does Ottawa make this trade?  They arent competing for a couple more years so it isnt vital their 1st rounder (2nd pick in the top 5) is nhl-ready right away. Domi is young enough he could give them good value for some time... 

I dont think they are considering moving 3rd ova.

Pretty sure our 1st rounder is in play this year, but I'm guessing MB would prefer to use it to add a guy who can help us right away. No idea what Dorion's plans are with the Sens but I don't think MB is necessarily interested in moving up in the draft. Bundling that pick with roster player X would certainly give us some bargaining power, especially considering how close some teams are to the Cap. For that reason alone it's going to be an interesting offseason I believe.

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5 minutes ago, claremont said:

[...]

6) Vegas - $5M of cap room - sure let's target Nick Cousins......ok just checking if anyone is reading but they have no RFA forwards of any value

Conclusion - The offer sheet route is very improbable unless I missed one, as all the other teams had sufficient cap room or no scoring forward with any stats worthy of an offer.

I did! And had a good laugh :lol:

And I also with your conclusion, I'd be really suprised to see MB going the offer sheet route for a 2nd year in a row...

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13 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Pretty sure our 1st rounder is in play this year, but I'm guessing MB would prefer to use it to add a guy who can help us right away. No idea what Dorion's plans are with the Sens but I don't think MB is necessarily interested in moving up in the draft. Bundling that pick with roster player X would certainly give us some bargaining power, especially considering how close some teams are to the Cap. For that reason alone it's going to be an interesting offseason I believe.

I actually could see Bergevin moving back a few spots - the difference between pick #16 and pick 23 is not that much different in talent due to the deepness of this draft. What I really would like is for him to acquire another top pick e.g. move up some picks in the 2nd or 3rd round plus a spare part / fringe player to get above pick #40. It is around pick 40 that I see some drop off in ratings of players. We all know that once you start to draft in the late 4th or 5th round, the probabilities of finding a starter or impact player drop substantially. It's taken Bergevin 8 1/2 #$% years to realize the importance of drafting right or acquiring youth. I can only hope he doesn't go back to resetting with retreads. 

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50 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

I did! And had a good laugh :lol:

And I also with your conclusion, I'd be really suprised to see MB going the offer sheet route for a 2nd year in a row...

Haha yup me too ;) 

And I agree, its highly unlikely we'd go the OS route.  As I said earlier, the only way they've really ever worked is an overpayment.  If you're looking for an impact player that means paying him like $9m instead of say the $7 he's worth.  We may be able to afford it but how does that affect us when JK and Suzuki and co are up for contracts?   We just signed Petry to a sweetheart deal, it would be great if we could keep players accepting a little less within that structure. 

32 minutes ago, claremont said:

I actually could see Bergevin moving back a few spots - the difference between pick #16 and pick 23 is not that much different in talent due to the deepness of this draft.

While i agree that there's a good chance the guy we want may be available later, one thing Bergevin & timmins have shown is that when they want a guy, they'll draft him higher than (probably) needed.   Romanov was obviously a great pick in hindsight but at the time, there are a lot of people that believe we could have gotten him a round later.   I think their philosophy is that if you're sure of a player, why take the risk - and thats fair - but its also why I dont think you'll see them trading down. Trading away the pick, maybe. 

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25 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Haha yup me too ;) 

And I agree, its highly unlikely we'd go the OS route.  As I said earlier, the only way they've really ever worked is an overpayment.  If you're looking for an impact player that means paying him like $9m instead of say the $7 he's worth.  We may be able to afford it but how does that affect us when JK and Suzuki and co are up for contracts?   We just signed Petry to a sweetheart deal, it would be great if we could keep players accepting a little less within that structure. 

While i agree that there's a good chance the guy we want may be available later, one thing Bergevin & timmins have shown is that when they want a guy, they'll draft him higher than (probably) needed.   Romanov was obviously a great pick in hindsight but at the time, there are a lot of people that believe we could have gotten him a round later.   I think their philosophy is that if you're sure of a player, why take the risk - and thats fair - but its also why I dont think you'll see them trading down. Trading away the pick, maybe. 

No, they're capable of trading down. If you look at the draft video for the Caufield draft they were discussing trading down until Caufield fell into their laps. if they have 4-5 guys they value equally, i think they would trade down. 

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21 minutes ago, habsisme said:

No, they're capable of trading down. If you look at the draft video for the Caufield draft they were discussing trading down until Caufield fell into their laps. if they have 4-5 guys they value equally, i think they would trade down. 

Tough to say. I assume with Romanov, they felt that someone else with a pick between ours and our next one, was also scouting him. I assume that they know which guys are on the radar for some teams etc. Scouts talk to each other - especially those in other parts of the world scouting the same groups of guys. 

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31 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Tough to say. I assume with Romanov, they felt that someone else with a pick between ours and our next one, was also scouting him. I assume that they know which guys are on the radar for some teams etc. Scouts talk to each other - especially those in other parts of the world scouting the same groups of guys. 

Romanov is different, they wanted him. But if you have 5 Romanov's then they will be will to trade down 5 picks. Thats the only way they trade down. They wont take a chance on losing a guy because they think they can get him later

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2 hours ago, claremont said:

 

I took a look at some of the RFA's that Bergevin might consider to go bold and big on with an offer sheet, as it's been clearly stated in a news article that he's trying to trade Charles Hudon as the team will not renew Hudon and for Charles sake, trying to find a job opportunity in the nhl for him before he goes to Europe. I was trying to find teams without much cap room and LTIR relief and keep it real (an example would have been Chicago Black hawks Dominic Kubalik but when adding back Seabrook / Shaw's LTIR amounts, hawks would have plenty of cap room to match). The other teams are as follows:

1) Islanders currently cap constrained with  few draft picks and $9M of cap room- most of which will go to Barzal barring a trade. RHD Ryan Pulock (10g, 25a) would be a good target (I know he's not a scoring forward), and likely command $4.2M plus (thus first and a third picks). I doubt with our LD development that LHD Devon Toews (6g, 22a) is worthy of being targeted. I sure would like some trade package to pick up their RHD prospect Noah Dobson.

2) Columbus - with the likely LTIR injury placement of Brandon Dubinsky, the jackets will have enough cap room ($7m + $5.9M) to resign Josh Anderson and Pierre-Luc Dubois so why bother - it's a likely match

3) Tampa Bay - Anthony Cirelli but he is a centre and Tampa is likely to trade some of their other core players to retain this 22 yr old (16, 28a). Not likely

4) Laffs - Ilya Mikheyev (LW - 8g, 15a in 39 games). Doesn't make an impact for me other than to screw up the leafs cap and make them pay more. I think he is loyal to the Laffs after his wrist injury from a skate last year. Travis Dermott is a LHD and Frederick Gauthier is a 4th line centre at best 

5) Canucks - have $14.3 cap room and need to sign a big name goalie, plus probably upgrade on a defenseman to get more competitive. RW Jake Virtanen would be the only target (18g, 18a). They will likely match as they would seem to have enough cap room

6) Vegas - $5M of cap room - sure let's target Nick Cousins......ok just checking if anyone is reading but they have no RFA forwards of any value

Conclusion - The offer sheet route is very improbable unless I missed one, as all the other teams had sufficient cap room or no scoring forward with any stats worthy of an offer.

 

Chicago had 7 Mil cap space and have Strome and Kubalik to resign if you offered Kubalik say 7+ x 7 years they would be in quite a pickle

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2 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Pretty sure our 1st rounder is in play this year, but I'm guessing MB would prefer to use it to add a guy who can help us right away. No idea what Dorion's plans are with the Sens but I don't think MB is necessarily interested in moving up in the draft. Bundling that pick with roster player X would certainly give us some bargaining power, especially considering how close some teams are to the Cap. For that reason alone it's going to be an interesting offseason I believe.

I would offer Danault + 2020 1st + Fleury for the 3rd and see if they bite if not then go Danault + Fleury for 5th provided Danault is extended 

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