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2 hours ago, habsisme said:

I wouldn't give up anything for him, but i'd rather add him for 2 years than MD. It doesn't hurt our cap when we will need the money

Really you would pass on a guy that makes our team much better but add a bottom feeding weasel like Perry who doesn't really bring much we don't already have in the bottom 6 except his slime ball plays. No thanks, not ever!!! There are very few players in the league that I feel aren't worth the aggravation of having in the league Marchand tops that list but not far behind is Perry

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4 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Really you would pass on a guy that makes our team much better but add a bottom feeding weasel like Perry who doesn't really bring much we don't already have in the bottom 6 except his slime ball plays. No thanks, not ever!!! There are very few players in the league that I feel aren't worth the aggravation of having in the league Marchand tops that list but not far behind is Perry

i cant stand MD, he sucks, he's not even as good as pleks in his prime. I don't understand why everyone has lost their mind over him. This is Gomez 2.0 except no compliance buyout to bail us out. Anyone but the guy who only plays well on contract years

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3 hours ago, habsisme said:

i cant stand MD, he sucks, he's not even as good as pleks in his prime. I don't understand why everyone has lost their mind over him. This is Gomez 2.0 except no compliance buyout to bail us out. Anyone but the guy who only plays well on contract years

Then why in another post were YOU saying we should sign MD and free up JD to trade for a LHD?

See point 2 below

 

Edited by campabee82
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On 6/8/2019 at 7:25 AM, BigTed3 said:

Which is a nice view of things in some ways, but again, I'll raise two caveats:

1. Price and Weber and Petry and so on are getting older. Either you are going for it in their window or you aren't. It's one thing to say you're going to build through the draft, which I think is the right thing to do. But you also can't just keep waiting forever. You need to strike while Price is still good and while you still have assets like JK, Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Mete, Juulsen, etc. on cost-controlled contracts. Is the 15th overall pick going to help us in the next 2-3 years? Not likely. At some point, when you've built up your roster, you need to commit for a final push. I don't see the Habs filling their need for an elite scorer and/or a top-pairing LHD very easily, so to be able to add a first-tier player via free agency can help, and we have cap space this year to do it. Make your team capable of making a run for the next 3-4 years and then sort out the cap down the line.

2. We have the roster depth now to make trades. If you sign Duchene, it allows you to trade Drouin. This isn't signing Duchene and then moving Travis Moen off the first line any more. Sign Karlsson and we should be looking to move Weber. In either case, signing the asset isn't only upgrading that one position, it's also allowing you to add a key asset for free (as in no assets given up), which then allows you to turn around and make another trade to address another area. Upgrade Drouin to Duchene, then turn around and trade Drouin for the LHD help you need. Or upgrade Weber to Karlsson and deal Weber for a LHD and maybe another asset too.

So I agree with you to some degree that you can't be throwing money at mid-level assets in free agency on long-term deals. We're not talking about signing a Brock Nelson to 6 years at 6M a season and then letting Armia or Lehkonen walk instead. We're talking about a serious upgrade to the top end of the line-up AND being able to recoup another asset via trade as a result. Right now, if you want a LHD via trade, it'll cost you a Drouin, Weber, Petry, Tatar, or Gallagher... that leaves another hole in the line-up somewhere. If we can finally attract a big name UFA to come here, I'd jump on it, push the team into contention for a few years and then worry about trading out of it in a few years. Remember as well that Gallagher, Danault, Petry, and Tatar are all UFA's in a couple of years, so the time to shoot your shot is now.

 

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19 hours ago, habsisme said:

i cant stand MD, he sucks, he's not even as good as pleks in his prime. I don't understand why everyone has lost their mind over him. This is Gomez 2.0 except no compliance buyout to bail us out. Anyone but the guy who only plays well on contract years

Actually, Domi is the first Habs forward period, since Thomas Plekanec back in 2009-2010 to post 70 points in a season - but other than putting up the highest point total any Hab has in almost a decade, you're right he sucks.  He's just a Scott Gomez in Thomas Plekanecs turtle neck. :4224:

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6 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Actually, Domi is the first Habs forward period, since Thomas Plekanec back in 2009-2010 to post 70 points in a season - but other than putting up the highest point total any Hab has in almost a decade, you're right he sucks.  He's just a Scott Gomez in Thomas Plekanecs turtle neck. :4224:

Matt Duchene, who everyone thinks is the second coming. Look at his stats and ignore his 2 contract years, he's shit

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2 hours ago, habsisme said:

Matt Duchene, who everyone thinks is the second coming. Look at his stats and ignore his 2 contract years, he's shit

Oh sorry, my bad.  I misunderstood.  I'm not big on Matt Duchene either.  All he really does for us is take up cap space and roster spots that could be way easier filled by any one of Nick Suzuki, Ryan Poehling or Jesperi Kotkaniemi.

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1 minute ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Oh sorry, my bad.  I misunderstood.  I'm not big on Matt Duchene either.  All he really does for us is take up cap space and roster spots that could be way easier filled by any one of Nick Suzuki, Ryan Poehling or Jesperi Kotkaniemi.

Agreed!

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3 hours ago, habsisme said:

Matt Duchene, who everyone thinks is the second coming. Look at his stats and ignore his 2 contract years, he's shit

I disagree and did look at his numbers ignoring his contract years 2011 and 2012 his numbers are as follows

2009-2010 - G = 24 A = 31 P =55 GP = 81 PPG = .68

2010-2011 -  G = 27 A = 40 P = 67 GP = 80 PPG = .84

2011-2012 - G = 14 A = 14 P = 28 GP = 56 (Contract Year) PPG = .5

2012-2013 - G = 17 A = 26 P = 43 GP = 47 (Contract Year) PPG = .92

2013-2014 - G = 23 A = 47 P = 70 GP = 71 PPG = .99

2014-2015 - G = 21 A = 34 P = 55 GP = 82 PPG = .67

2015-2016 - G = 30 A = 29 P = 59 GP = 76 PPG = .78

2016-2017 - G = 18 A = 23 P = 41 GP = 77 PPG = .53

2017-2018 - G = 27 A = 32 P = 59 GP = 82 PPG = .72

2018-2019 - G = 31 A = 39 P = 70 GP = 73 (Contract Year) PPG = .96

PPG excluding contract years .75 for his career, not bad if you ask me and look at his totals he is actually more consistent when not in a contract year all stats are from NHL.com

Edited by campabee82
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4 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

To be truthful, we could afford to move a forward or 2 for a really good left handed shot.  Even without signing Duchene who in no way resolves or issue on the back end.  We can still afford to move guys to make room for our young guns.

I agree we need to take care of the back end first but would not be opposed to signing MD either

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Just now, campabee82 said:

I agree we need to take care of the back end first but would not be opposed to signing MD either

Exactly, without signing a bad contract. I was wanting Gardiner at one point but have changed my mind but still rather than Duchene

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2 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Exactly, without signing a bad contract. I was wanting Gardiner at one point but have changed my mind but still rather than Duchene

I see a lot of Gardiner, always thought he was overrated more of a solid second pairing than a top pairing dman so never really wanted him

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4 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I disagree and did look at his numbers ignoring his contract years 2011 and 2012 his numbers are as follows

2009-2010 - G = 24 A = 31 P =55 GP = 81 PPG = .68

2010-2011 -  G = 27 A = 40 P = 67 GP = 80 PPG = .84

2011-2012 - G = 14 A = 14 P = 28 GP = 56 (Contract Year) PPG = .5

2012-2013 - G = 17 A = 26 P = 43 GP = 47 (Contract Year) PPG = .92

2013-2014 - G = 23 A = 47 P = 70 GP = 71 PPG = .99

2014-2015 - G = 21 A = 34 P = 55 GP = 82 PPG = .67

2015-2016 - G = 30 A = 29 P = 59 GP = 76 PPG = .78

2016-2017 - G = 18 A = 23 P = 41 GP = 77 PPG = .53

2017-2018 - G = 27 A = 32 P = 59 GP = 82 PPG = .72

2018-2019 - G = 31 A = 39 P = 70 GP = 73 (Contract Year) PPG = .96

PPG excluding contract years .75 for his career, not bad if you ask me and look at his totals he is actually more consistent when not in a contract year all stats are from NHL.com

He's had one good year that wasn't a contract year. The rest are okay, but they are second line center numbers. And I just don't trust a guy who suddenly plays so well when his contract is up. He's about himself

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On 6/8/2019 at 4:59 PM, kinot-2 said:

Here's another rumour, FWIW:

 

According to Marc-Antoine Godin of The Athletic, Bergevin took Cole Caufield out to dinner during the combine week.

Caufield is expected to go anywhere in the 7-12 range, however it's hard to predict as the draft is a complete wild card starting at the 3rd pick overall. 

While some fans would be disappointed to see the Canadiens' draft Caufield because he's not a defenseman and an undersized winger, he's something the Canadiens need badly. 

An incredible sniper with a beautiful finish. 

Caufield scores at an incredible almost goal per game pace no matter where he's played. 

While he might only stand 5'7" and weigh 163lbs, he's lean and strong and should continue to get stronger as he's committed to the NCAA next season. 

 

Stats can be found here:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=209488

IF through some bizarre gardening accident Caufield slides to 15, then yes, MB should jump all over that.

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1 hour ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

IF through some bizarre gardening accident Caufield slides to 15, then yes, MB should jump all over that.

lol at gardening accident 

I think we may have surprises at 15, who knows. I am convinced that Byram goes #3 but that;s certainly not the consensus 

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19 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I suppose it's possible Bergevin might be attempting to trade up for him, as well.

I feel like there's a solid chance Bergevin trades up (or even down).  At 15 we likely get a guy who cant help us for at least 2 years.   If we trade up to get a guy who can step in now - or trade down for an asset as well as a longer-term project - that may make more sense.

 

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3 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I disagree and did look at his numbers ignoring his contract years 2011 and 2012 his numbers are as follows

2009-2010 - G = 24 A = 31 P =55 GP = 81 PPG = .68

2010-2011 -  G = 27 A = 40 P = 67 GP = 80 PPG = .84

2011-2012 - G = 14 A = 14 P = 28 GP = 56 (Contract Year) PPG = .5

2012-2013 - G = 17 A = 26 P = 43 GP = 47 (Contract Year) PPG = .92

2013-2014 - G = 23 A = 47 P = 70 GP = 71 PPG = .99

2014-2015 - G = 21 A = 34 P = 55 GP = 82 PPG = .67

2015-2016 - G = 30 A = 29 P = 59 GP = 76 PPG = .78

2016-2017 - G = 18 A = 23 P = 41 GP = 77 PPG = .53

2017-2018 - G = 27 A = 32 P = 59 GP = 82 PPG = .72

2018-2019 - G = 31 A = 39 P = 70 GP = 73 (Contract Year) PPG = .96

PPG excluding contract years .75 for his career, not bad if you ask me and look at his totals he is actually more consistent when not in a contract year all stats are from NHL.com

 

3 hours ago, habsisme said:

He's had one good year that wasn't a contract year. The rest are okay, but they are second line center numbers. And I just don't trust a guy who suddenly plays so well when his contract is up. He's about himself

I'll say this... I am not the world's biggest Matt Duchene fan. I think he is overrated to a certain degree by a lot of people in the Canadian media. But that said, I don't think you can say he won't help the Habs. I think he is easily an upgrade over a number of the players we have, including Drouin, Tatar, Danault, Lehkonen, Shaw, Byron, etc. He's also better than Kotkaniemi now, even though I wouldn't swap out JK for him given the long-term potential. It's debatable who is more valuable, Domi or Duchene, albeit I'd tend to go with Domi because he's younger with more upside at this point in his career. But I'll reiterate... at a time when MB needs to add high-end talent to his line-up to make a push for Cup contention, he's a guy we should be considering. A guy who can put up 55-70 points a year is nothing to sneeze at.

Over the past 3 seasons, Duchene is 30th in the league among centers in points per ice time at even strength, among guys who have played at least 1500 minutes. And that's including one of his "down" years in 2016-17. If you look at only the past 2 years, he's 18th overall among centers. Last year alone, he was 12th. So take it as what you'd like, but without a doubt, Duchene has been among the top 30 point-producing centers at even strength over the past 3 years, and his ranking has only been increasing over that time. His PP production may not be as good as some of the other scoring centers, but he's also better defensively than many of the guys ahead of him, so we can debate the relative merits of that and it would be hard to judge what's worth more. But if you use the most level playing field of points per ice time at ES, then Duchene is clearly a first-line player.

Whether he would be worth signing is another question. I agree with many that getting a #1 LHD is a more important need. But we also need to keep in mind that isn't happening via the UFA market. So for me, if you can sign Duchene and get top-level talent without giving up assets, it permits you to trade a Drouin or a Tatar or whoever else to go out and try to acquire a #1 LHD that way. Upgrade Drouin to Duchene, for example, and then upgrade your D via trade. One thing's for sure, there's no sense sitting on wasted cap money like we've done recently, and there's a clock ticking on how long we have to win with Price/Weber/Petry/etc. MB has enough depth. There's not much added value in signing mid-tier guys right now. We don't need  more 3rd pairing D men, we don't need more 3rd line wingers. We need to be able to make a move or two that affects the top of the line-up if we want to make a push for a Cup. Duchene, whether you like him as a player or not, is someone who elevates the top of our current line-up and pushes other guys into seats they should be more comfortable with.

 

 

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 

I'll say this... I am not the world's biggest Matt Duchene fan. I think he is overrated to a certain degree by a lot of people in the Canadian media. But that said, I don't think you can say he won't help the Habs. I think he is easily an upgrade over a number of the players we have, including Drouin, Tatar, Danault, Lehkonen, Shaw, Byron, etc. He's also better than Kotkaniemi now, even though I wouldn't swap out JK for him given the long-term potential. It's debatable who is more valuable, Domi or Duchene, albeit I'd tend to go with Domi because he's younger with more upside at this point in his career. But I'll reiterate... at a time when MB needs to add high-end talent to his line-up to make a push for Cup contention, he's a guy we should be considering. A guy who can put up 55-70 points a year is nothing to sneeze at

This.    And honestly I dont think it matters how you make up your lines but a top 9 of  Domi, Duchene, Gallagher, JK, Drouin, Tatar, Shaw, Danault and Lekhonen would be formidable.   Any of those guys can match up against any line in the league.  Imagine trying to defend against Domi-Duchene-Gallagher?  or Tatar-Duchene-Shaw  

...and thats without even adding in Suzuki and/or Poehling.  

 

I definitely wouldnt trade some of our guys (like Domi or Gallagher or JK) for Duchene, but adding him for nothing? No brainer.  As long as the money & term make sense, i do it every single time.

The only reason I wouldnt add Duchene is if i can somehow get Panarin (who i think is an even better fit for our needs) to sign with us. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

This.    And honestly I dont think it matters how you make up your lines but a top 9 of  Domi, Duchene, Gallagher, JK, Drouin, Tatar, Shaw, Danault and Lekhonen would be formidable.   Any of those guys can match up against any line in the league.  Imagine trying to defend against Domi-Duchene-Gallagher?  or Tatar-Duchene-Shaw  

...and thats without even adding in Suzuki and/or Poehling.  

 

I definitely wouldnt trade some of our guys (like Domi or Gallagher or JK) for Duchene, but adding him for nothing? No brainer.  As long as the money & term make sense, i do it every single time.

The only reason I wouldnt add Duchene is if i can somehow get Panarin (who i think is an even better fit for our needs) to sign with us. 

Right. I think a lot of it comes down to what the options MB has to spend his money, as well as what secondary deals might be available. If you can get Duchene for X amount over Y years and you have a trade in place to swap out a forward for a top-pairing LHD, then it all fits into place. In that case, it might make sense. On the other hand, if you have a deal in place to be able to trade Weber or Petry for your LHD, then maybe it's better to target Karlsson.

I would agree that Panarin would also be a great fit here, but it sounds like he's really intent on going to Florida and if not there, then some place like the NYR, NYI, LA, or Chicago likely ranks ahead of us too. But Panarin and Bob going to Florida would be yet another reason to try to make a big splash too. We're already going to have TB, Tor, and Bos to battle, you really can't afford to have a 4th team in your own division leaping ahead of you...

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