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2 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

I'll be really upset if MB trades KK for PLD ... sure PLD is an immediate improvement, but KK projects to be as good or better.    And what we actually need is a #1 LD ... not another C.

in what world does KK project to be as good or better!?!? COULD it happen, sure! Is it likely? HELL NO!

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4 hours ago, habs1952 said:

Why not Drouin(while his value is high), Poehling and Byron? :lol:

I'd do this in a heartbeat. Not sure it addresses Blue Jackets Center needs. Toss in a pick & a prospect and the cap space works for us, now and in the future. 

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19 minutes ago, habsisme said:

in what world does KK project to be as good or better!?!? COULD it happen, sure! Is it likely? HELL NO!

Most scouts .... KK is projected to have more offensive upside, PLD more of a two way style akin to Ryan O'Rielly

At 18 PLD was in the Q

48 games 21g 34a 55p ...  (76pt in 66g ... which doesn't even crack the top 10 for the league that year)

KK at 18 was in the NHL (11g23a)... at 17 he was playing with men in the Finnish league and finished 3rd on his team in pts.    KK is the better offensive player, period.  If we trade him at 20 for PLD ... in 2 years time we are all going to be crying how stupid MB was.

Suzuki and KK to me are untouchable.   Especially if we're talking PLD.

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12 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Most scouts .... KK is projected to have more offensive upside, PLD more of a two way style akin to Ryan O'Rielly

At 18 PLD was in the Q

48 games 21g 34a 55p ...  (76pt in 66g ... which doesn't even crack the top 10 for the league that year)

KK at 18 was in the NHL (11g23a)... at 17 he was playing with men in the Finnish league and finished 3rd on his team in pts.    KK is the better offensive player, period.  If we trade him at 20 for PLD ... in 2 years time we are all going to be crying how stupid MB was.

Suzuki and KK to me are untouchable.   Especially if we're talking PLD.

EXACTLY!!! Well said

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31 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Most scouts .... KK is projected to have more offensive upside, PLD more of a two way style akin to Ryan O'Rielly

At 18 PLD was in the Q

48 games 21g 34a 55p ...  (76pt in 66g ... which doesn't even crack the top 10 for the league that year)

KK at 18 was in the NHL (11g23a)... at 17 he was playing with men in the Finnish league and finished 3rd on his team in pts.    KK is the better offensive player, period.  If we trade him at 20 for PLD ... in 2 years time we are all going to be crying how stupid MB was.

Suzuki and KK to me are untouchable.   Especially if we're talking PLD.

nope, sorry

the guy played like shit last year outside of the bubble and he didn't do all that well in Finland most recently. KK will never be more the a middle 6 guy

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25 minutes ago, habsisme said:

nope, sorry

the guy played like shit last year outside of the bubble and he didn't do all that well in Finland most recently. KK will never be more the a middle 6 guy

yes because one season of sophmore jinx discounts that he was ranked the best center in his draft, top 10 draft pick, played excellently in Finland most recently by the way (8pt in 10 game, in league where the top scored maybe gets ppg) ... we get you, you're not a Kotkaniemi fan, but you're wrong about his potential.

And I've seen both play ... Kotkaniemi's vision and hockey sense is  better and as he matures into that lanky frame he's going to be really good.   PLD has natural talent, but he is definitely your proto typical power forward.   I wouldn't decline getting him ... but not for Suzuki or Kotkaniemi

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8 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

yes because one season of sophmore jinx discounts that he was ranked the best center in his draft, top 10 draft pick, played excellently in Finland most recently by the way (8pt in 10 game, in league where the top scored maybe gets ppg) ... we get you, you're not a Kotkaniemi fan, but you're wrong about his potential.

And I've seen both play ... Kotkaniemi's vision and hockey sense is  better and as he matures into that lanky frame he's going to be really good.   PLD has natural talent, but he is definitely your proto typical power forward.   I wouldn't decline getting him ... but not for Suzuki or Kotkaniemi

i actually like and have hope for KK but to compare him to Dubois, honestly i think anyone who thinks KK is better or will be better than Dubois, should no longer be taken seriously. Its just crazy

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Just now, habsisme said:

i actually like and have hope for KK but to compare him to Dubois, honestly i think anyone who thinks KK is better or will be better than Dubois, should no longer be taken seriously. Its just crazy

KK has more cieling, and at 20 hasn't reached it yet.   He's the riskier of the 2, you know exactly what you're going to get with PLD ... 60-70pts, maybe 80 in a good year, tough 2 way hockey.

KK on the other hand has the vision, hockey sense and raw talent that potentially he could be an 80-90 pts guy.    I've seen lots of players in my 45 years of watching hockey, and nobody has excited me as much as KK and Suzuki has for the habs in many years.    KK will be as good or better than PLD by the time he hits 22 in 2 years.

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23 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

KK has more cieling, and at 20 hasn't reached it yet.   He's the riskier of the 2, you know exactly what you're going to get with PLD ... 60-70pts, maybe 80 in a good year, tough 2 way hockey.

KK on the other hand has the vision, hockey sense and raw talent that potentially he could be an 80-90 pts guy.    I've seen lots of players in my 45 years of watching hockey, and nobody has excited me as much as KK and Suzuki has for the habs in many years.    KK will be as good or better than PLD by the time he hits 22 in 2 years.

Yeah I think I would hold on to KK the guy came into a poor team as pretty much a child and held his own! then the next year he had a drop off like 50% of players do and he was still just a kid then he get hurt comes back in the playoffs where it really counts and played great! he is getting stronger as he goes he is big and he is getting meaner and shooting more. for me it would be crazy to let him go he could become a serious force at center which is a hard position to play.

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I've gone over why PLD is likely not worth the cost, even though he's a coveted player who would possibly become our best forward. The most important thing is to break down the cost of a trade into its parts:

1. The return of what you need to give Columbus to make it happen

2. The amount of cap space you gain/lose and the contract status of the involved players

3. The loss of assets due to the players having to quarantine for 14 days when you trade with an American team

 

In this case, if we were to trade Suzuki or JK, we would lose out on #2. Our current guys are making considerably less, and we're already tight against the cap. Past this season you likely also have the option of going bridge deal or long-term 8-year deal with Suzuki/JK when their contracts are up, whereas PLD is likely going to do what Anderson did to us and force us to sign a short extension that leads him right to UFA status or a big-money long-term one. You can get JK and maybe even Suzuki locked up long-term when they have less bargaining power.

In terms of assets, I'd largely tell Columbus Suzuki is off limits, as are Romanov and Norlinder. I'd be open to dealing Kotkaniemi, Tatar, Drouin, Danault, Caufield, Harris, Guhle, Struble, or our 1st rounder as part of the deal. One of the assets going back would have to be making enough money to balance the cap anyways. You'd have to figure a deal would include a center going back so it's one of two things:

A. Kotkaniemi plus a bigger contract like Tatar or Drouin or Chiarot or Byron

B. Danault plus a younger asset

If were going to put this together (and I don't think we should offer more than either of these given what we're giving up contract-wise), I'd tell Kekalainen these are my two offers: Kotkaniemi, Tatar, and Guhle OR Danault, Caufield, and our 1st rounder. If it costs more than that, not sure it's worth it and frankly PLD is forcing Columbus' hand here, so we're in the position of power if he wants to play here.

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PLD (5.5m) for Kotkaniemi, Kulak, Byron (6.175m) + picks and/or prospects not named Guhle/Norlinder/Caufield

Leaving us with:
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson
Toffoli-Dubois-Armia
Lehkonen/Frolik-Evans/Poehling-Perry

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47 minutes ago, Windoe said:

PLD (5.5m) for Kotkaniemi, Kulak, Byron (6.175m) + picks and/or prospects not named Guhle/Norlinder/Caufield

Leaving us with:
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson
Toffoli-Dubois-Armia
Lehkonen/Frolik-Evans/Poehling-Perry

Yes biggest issue though is resigning Tatar, Danault, Lehkonen, Armia this off season. Then you have Romanov, Suzuki and PLD the next one. That means 2 more top 6 forwards will have to go either through trade or FA. Cause you are not letting Suzuki, PLD or Danault walk after trading KK. We then become the Leafs. Top heavy top 6 and old men or inexperienced rookies through the bottom 6 and bottom 4 D. No thanks!

Edited by campabee82
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For me, I’m happy with the team we have. If we just stick with the team we have, that’s cool with me.

as for the Kotkaneimi vs Dubois question... Kotkaniemi looks to have the higher ceiling, my guess is 80 points, give or take. Dubois’ probably more like 70. So that’s about a 10 point difference. Thing is, it’s going to take 2-3 years before KK gets there, maybe 30-40 points this year, 50-60 the year after... Dubois’ ready to give you 70 right now. 
the question is, is the extra 10-15 points per year worth waiting 2-3 years to get it? Or are we better off taking the “money now” approach with Dubois? It depends on how you feel about the current team. If you think this is a team that is 2 or 3 years away from competing, then I think you absolutely pass on Dubois. But if you think this is a team built to compete right now, and you can add a young, “right now” type of player like PLD? That’s tough to pass up. Weber and Price aren’t getting any younger, 2-3 years is a long time to them.

Kotkaneimi might turn out to be the better player 5 years down the road, but that doesn’t discount the fact that PLD would be an immediate improvement to an already promising lineup. Sometimes a little less money now is more valuable than a little more money in the future 

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For me the give would have to be KK and salary going the other way Byron? and a pick.  No way Suzuki, NO way Romanov or any other young dee with the exception of  maybe Mete.

No problem at all giving up KK for PLD, Not sure why I hear KK has a better upside or will be better than PLD in  2 or 3 years. PLD put up 20 goals and almsot 50 points as a 19 year old and 27 at 20. 

KK was sent back to the AHL at 19. 

Having said that I do really like KK and if the trade never happens I am fine with having KK for then next 10 years. But if the cost is say KK, Byron and a pick. I would make that trade. 

 

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13 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Ok side note. Important rumour here! Not sure how true it is cause it came from Eklund BUUUUUT according to him Chris Lee will NOT ref any Habs games this season!!!!!! :5210::5210::5210:

THIS^^^^^^

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14 hours ago, campabee82 said:

According to the story refs werr assigned their own division and will stay within that division until the conference finals. Chris Lee was not assigned to the North Division

Grain of salt. 

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16 hours ago, campabee82 said:

According to the story refs werr assigned their own division and will stay within that division until the conference finals. Chris Lee was not assigned to the North Division

Yeah, North Division refs will stay the same unless border restrictions loosen later on in year. For now, they are

- Brad Meier

- Marc Joanette

- Eric Furlatt

- Kevin Pollock

- Kendrick Nicholson

- Chris Schlenker

- Graham Skilliter

 

with a few AHL refs as back-ups. It's conceivable a ref could change countries during the season if they quarantine for 14 days, but the NHL said the 7 refs chosen are Canadians who reside in Canada all year, so it made it easier for them to stay with their families and not have to cross borders. No Chris Lee, no Tim Peel. We still have to put up with Furlatt's ego and Skilliter's incompetence though.

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1 hour ago, 26NCounting said:

Rumors are MTL and CBJ are very close to a deal, any speculation on what the deal consists of???

If thats true then one would assume its about PLD.  I love Dubois and think he'd be an excellent add  - but - i worry about what we'd have to give up.   

Ive heard people speculate we'd move Suzuki (I would be in absolute shock if we did) and/or Romanov (again, no way this happens imho) but there's an outside chance MB would consider moving JK as the main piece in a Dubois deal.   I understand that people would hesistate on this - JK is 2 years younger and may actually end up being better in the long run, but if you're MB and you truly think we have a shot at winning this year... which centre gives you a better shot in the next 1-2 years? I know that  Jarmo Kekäläinen was very high on JK when he was drafted. 

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Hmmm I still think I would hold onto KK as I believe he is going to be of the same caliber as PLD.  Now I would move a DD + caufield I think that might be a fair deal as Caufield is all speculative talent.  He was non existent at the WJC

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2 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

Hmmm I still think I would hold onto KK as I believe he is going to be of the same caliber as PLD.  Now I would move a DD + caufield I think that might be a fair deal as Caufield is all speculative talent.  He was non existent at the WJC

I agree on the hanging onto KK part but as far as Caufield goes I would push for a D prospect instead as we have a ton of good ones.

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