Rumours

[habsisme 0]

2 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I would lose my mind if MB trade Romanov.  I'm tired of this team trading away promising young D-mean for 5th to 7th defenseman on anyone elses roster.

yeah i wouldn't trade Romanov either

[East_Coast_Juggalo_13 0]

3 minutes ago, habsisme said:

yeah i wouldn't trade Romanov either

This is why I keep preaching patience to people.  We are only 1 season removed from our worst season in recent history.I still feel that we need to build a winner in Laval and let these kids (not all of our kids, but most) learn how to win at the AHL level and then allow that to translate into winning at the NHL level.  We're 2 years away from an expansion draft again and it might be in our best interest to allow a good portion of our prospects to play down in Laval for those 2 years.

[maas_art 0]

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I love the title of Matla's article. Of course... You shouldn't trade anyone unless the "deal is right."

I have a hard time believing Bergevin would deal BOTH Shaw and Byron. I wonder if Shaw + prospect + pick would be enticing. Shaw + Romanov + 2nd rounder. Something like that. Maybe a swap of picks. Grab Philadelphia's 3rd or 4th rounder.

A few points:

- I dont think MB will even contemplate trading Romanov unless there's something we dont know (ie Romanov has told them he's not coming to North America or something).  IMHO Bergevin probably looks at Romanov, JK, Suzuki, Poehling and Brook as basically untouchable at this point. 

- I cant see him trading both Byron and Shaw - although honestly this makes more sense from the Flyer's standpoint if they are in a win-now mode.

- Shaw is coming off a great season, Ghost is coming off a poor one.  I think if you put Shaw in the Flyer's top 6 and he remained healthy (the big question) he may even surpass last year.  So I dont think its as lopsided as it may seem. Shaw is not that much older than Ghost either.    I think a 'fair' deal would probably be something like Shaw + 2nd or Shaw + Fleury (or a similar mid-tier prospect). We can afford to lose fleury too as he's a RD and well down the depth chart after guys like Juulsen and Brook (not to mention Weber and Petry). 

[BigTed3 0]

17 hours ago, maas_art said:

If the return was a quality LD  - and you could sign Duchene - would you do it?  You'd have Duchene, Domi, JK, Poehling & Thompson as your centres & and an upgrade at LD... 

 

6 hours ago, ChiLla said:

It's intriguing but I probably wouldn't do it. I think that Danault is criminally underrated and none of the other centers on the team can replace what he brings on the defensive side right now (not Domi's or Duchene's game, still too early for both Kotkaniemi and Poehling IMO). Knowing Julien, we'd probably see Thompson on one of the top lines in no time

I think Drouin is the guy we should be trying to move for a quality LD, it's the first time I can remember that we seem to have some real depth at center and I'm quite happy with that.

It's a tough decision. On the one hand, if you could sign Duchene and he's the best option available for spending your money, I would make that move regardless. then the question becomes who you can trade to fill your LHD. I also think Drouin should be able to be moved to fill that need. Or barring that, maybe a player like Tatar or Shaw in combination with a prospect or our extra 2nd rounder.

Danault? I think he has good trade value. I think we could make a case that it's fair value to deal him for a Klefbom or a Gostisbehere. I think you could argue he's worth Ryan Murray AND another asset. And while I agree he's underrated by fans probably, I get the sense he's not underrated by GM's. Lars Eller fetched two 2nd rounders and became a key cog in Washington's Cup run, and I'd argue Danault has more value now than Eller did when we traded him since he's being used on our top line and handled the responsibility there. Danault is a very strong two-way player, he's reasonably young, and he's on a cost-controlled contract. All things GM's tend to love.

I don't see Danault as a top line center. I think he's better suited to being a 3C than a 2C even. But he's capable of being a 2C in a stretch and he's one of the top handful of 3C's in the league if he's in that role, and GM's value that type of player, especially when they're building a Cup contender. All that being said, when we traded Eller, we had Danault in the wings as a guy who could potentially fill Eller's spot. Who is the player who's going to take Danault's place? Poehling? You could argue that Duchene-Domi-JK down the middle is great, but then how do you find enough ice time for all three to get scoring roles... for all to get PP time and decent wingers and O-zone starts and so on. Danault just fits the 3C seat so well that it almost feels wrong to deal him while stockpiling 1-2C's and wingers and so on. Ultimately, if we did sign Duchene, I'd be of the opinion that Ghost is more valuable to our needs than Danault and I would make the swap, but like Chilla said, you'd have to think we can get a LHD for Drouin or other pieces before creating another hole by trading Danault.

[ChiLla 0]

45 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

It's a tough decision. On the one hand, if you could sign Duchene and he's the best option available for spending your money, I would make that move regardless. then the question becomes who you can trade to fill your LHD. I also think Drouin should be able to be moved to fill that need. Or barring that, maybe a player like Tatar or Shaw in combination with a prospect or our extra 2nd rounder.

Danault? I think he has good trade value. I think we could make a case that it's fair value to deal him for a Klefbom or a Gostisbehere. I think you could argue he's worth Ryan Murray AND another asset. And while I agree he's underrated by fans probably, I get the sense he's not underrated by GM's. Lars Eller fetched two 2nd rounders and became a key cog in Washington's Cup run, and I'd argue Danault has more value now than Eller did when we traded him since he's being used on our top line and handled the responsibility there. Danault is a very strong two-way player, he's reasonably young, and he's on a cost-controlled contract. All things GM's tend to love.

I don't see Danault as a top line center. I think he's better suited to being a 3C than a 2C even. But he's capable of being a 2C in a stretch and he's one of the top handful of 3C's in the league if he's in that role, and GM's value that type of player, especially when they're building a Cup contender. All that being said, when we traded Eller, we had Danault in the wings as a guy who could potentially fill Eller's spot. Who is the player who's going to take Danault's place? Poehling? You could argue that Duchene-Domi-JK down the middle is great, but then how do you find enough ice time for all three to get scoring roles... for all to get PP time and decent wingers and O-zone starts and so on. Danault just fits the 3C seat so well that it almost feels wrong to deal him while stockpiling 1-2C's and wingers and so on. Ultimately, if we did sign Duchene, I'd be of the opinion that Ghost is more valuable to our needs than Danault and I would make the swap, but like Chilla said, you'd have to think we can get a LHD for Drouin or other pieces before creating another hole by trading Danault.

Yup, I'm sure Danault has real solid trade value. What's not to like? He turned 26 not too long ago, he's on a very reasonable contract, and he's easily the strongest two-way center we have on the team. He also doesn't need to be sheltered in any way and you can comfortably use him against other top lines, while he'll still give you 40-50 points with the right linemates. You don't want to have him as your No1 guy but he's definitely a useful and very capable 2nd line center IMO. Players like that don't grow on trees and even though we may have a guy in Poehling who could play a similar role down the road, he'll need time to get there. As you've said, I don't think it makes sense to create another hole in the lineup to patch the hole at LD, especially since we could use other assets to acquire the guy we're looking for (e.g. any combination of Drouin, Shaw, Byron, and/or draft picks including our 1st rounder). Without Danault on the team, are we going to use Kotkaniemi/Poehling against the other teams' best players? I don't think that's going to work out and certainly wouldn't be ideal if we really want to develop those guys the right way.

[BigTed3 0]

2 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Yup, I'm sure Danault has real solid trade value. What's not to like? He turned 26 not too long ago, he's on a very reasonable contract, and he's easily the strongest two-way center we have on the team. He also doesn't need to be sheltered in any way and you can comfortably use him against other top lines, while he'll still give you 40-50 points with the right linemates. You don't want to have him as your No1 guy but he's definitely a useful and very capable 2nd line center IMO. Players like that don't grow on trees and even though we may have a guy in Poehling who could play a similar role down the road, he'll need time to get there. As you've said, I don't think it makes sense to create another hole in the lineup to patch the hole at LD, especially since we could use other assets to acquire the guy we're looking for (e.g. any combination of Drouin, Shaw, Byron, and/or draft picks including our 1st rounder). Without Danault on the team, are we going to use Kotkaniemi/Poehling against the other teams' best players? I don't think that's going to work out and certainly wouldn't be ideal if we really want to develop those guys the right way.

I think in Jedi's scenario, where we've signed Duchene, we'd probably be playing him in the tough match-up situations and giving JK and Domi easier match-ups. But I agree with the premise that there are simply other players we can trade to fill the LHD hole.

[xxdocxx 0]

Blue's Win. 48 hrs till the trade's begin.

[kinot-2 0]

10 minutes ago, xxdocxx said:

Blue's Win. 48 hrs till the trade's begin.

Really? WOW, can't wait.

 

[ChiLla 0]

5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I think in Jedi's scenario, where we've signed Duchene, we'd probably be playing him in the tough match-up situations and giving JK and Domi easier match-ups. But I agree with the premise that there are simply other players we can trade to fill the LHD hole.

Yeah, but do you really want to have Duchene out there as your go-to guy for tough match-ups? I'm not convinced that's the best way to spend ~10M against the Cap. I'd rather keep the known commodity in Danault, trade Drouin, and maybe still take a swing at Duchene if we can afford it.

[jennifer_rocket 0]

I just straight up don't want to overpay for Duchene. I feel like signing him will be a maximum term deal of seven years. And the dollar amount is going to be stupid. If we're going to overspend I think I'd rather take a run at Karlsson or Panarin. If you miss you, you miss out. But I don't want Duchene on a silly contract when we might get more offensively from Domi and Kotkaniemi over the next few years.

[maas_art 0]

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I just straight up don't want to overpay for Duchene. I feel like signing him will be a maximum term deal of seven years. And the dollar amount is going to be stupid. If we're going to overspend I think I'd rather take a run at Karlsson or Panarin. If you miss you, you miss out. But I don't want Duchene on a silly contract when we might get more offensively from Domi and Kotkaniemi over the next few years.

Yeah that is the real concern.   He turned down 8 years at $8m to stay in Ottawa so either: he just did not want to stay in ottawa at all, or, he wants more $$. Either way, 7 years at $8+m per would be a bit scary.

The other thing to consider is that right now we have this nice balance of contracts.  Sure Price and Weber make crazy money but aside from Drouin & Petry everyone is well below $5m per season.   You start bringing in guys who make $10m great - as long as they perform at that level - but if they are producing similar to Domi, what's he looking for next year? I know contracts also play off against the league average but a team that has control over their roster tends to do pretty well with resigning players at a discount.   Bringing in an overpaid UFA making Carey Price money could hurt us in more ways than one.


That said, I think Duchene would be a beast under Julien's system for at least 3-5 years.   Is our window open enough to take that gamble? 

[kinot-2 0]

Danslescoulisses.com reports today that Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin was spotted in Germany. 

It seems that the Canadiens could be holding their combine there or it's feasible that Bergevin is there to talk to one specific prospect. 

German defenseman Moritz Seider is expected to be drafted around the #15 range and could end up in the Habs' lap. 

The 18 year old stands 6'4" and weighs in at 207lbs and registered two goals in five games at the IIHF World Championships playing against NHLers. 

The German has the pedigree of a winner and loves to compete however is signed in Germany until the 2021 season. 

[HabsAlways 0]

1 hour ago, kinot-2 said:

Danslescoulisses.com reports today that Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin was spotted in Germany. 

It seems that the Canadiens could be holding their combine there or it's feasible that Bergevin is there to talk to one specific prospect. 

German defenseman Moritz Seider is expected to be drafted around the #15 range and could end up in the Habs' lap. 

The 18 year old stands 6'4" and weighs in at 207lbs and registered two goals in five games at the IIHF World Championships playing against NHLers. 

The German has the pedigree of a winner and loves to compete however is signed in Germany until the 2021 season. 

Moritz is a righty.

[kinot-2 0]

18 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Moritz is a righty.

BPA??

[maas_art 0]

1 hour ago, kinot-2 said:

Danslescoulisses.com reports today that Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin was spotted in Germany. 

It seems that the Canadiens could be holding their combine there or it's feasible that Bergevin is there to talk to one specific prospect. 

German defenseman Moritz Seider is expected to be drafted around the #15 range and could end up in the Habs' lap. 

The 18 year old stands 6'4" and weighs in at 207lbs and registered two goals in five games at the IIHF World Championships playing against NHLers. 

The German has the pedigree of a winner and loves to compete however is signed in Germany until the 2021 season. 

 

18 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Moritz is a righty.

Well i guess it depends if they believe he's BPA.   If they honestly believe he's a top 10-20 dman in the league then you draft him either way but if we did pick him it would obviously be a long-term thing...

[maas_art 0]

A few sources saying that Boston is considering moving Torey Krug and that the return they would want is a 2nd line winger.     Doubt we'd do it but a Krug for Shaw swap would probably be agreeable for both teams.    Julien loved Krug so you never know.    

[habsisme 0]

1 minute ago, maas_art said:

A few sources saying that Boston is considering moving Torey Krug and that the return they would want is a 2nd line winger.     Doubt we'd do it but a Krug for Shaw swap would probably be agreeable for both teams.    Julien loved Krug so you never know.    

only one year remaining on his deal, unless we are sure to re-sign, I wouldnt give up much

[HabsAlways 0]

2 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

BPA??

Sure, but at the mid point of the draft there's a couple of LHD available ... forget their names, but they're ranked higher than Moritz

[caperns61 0]

7 hours ago, maas_art said:

A few sources saying that Boston is considering moving Torey Krug and that the return they would want is a 2nd line winger.     Doubt we'd do it but a Krug for Shaw swap would probably be agreeable for both teams.    Julien loved Krug so you never know.    

So let me get  this straight, Shaw for Krug.????

BUt for Ghost its Shaw a Second and Fleury???

Well give me Krug he is already a much better player then Ghost ever will be and we only have to give up shaw to get him. Sign me up for that deal..

[CaptWelly 0]

10 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

So let me get  this straight, Shaw for Krug.????

BUt for Ghost its Shaw a Second and Fleury???

Well give me Krug he is already a much better player then Ghost ever will be and we only have to give up shaw to get him. Sign me up for that deal..

I agree Krug is very underrated and so far everyone is just hoping Ghost will become a solid guy , where Krug already is! 

[habsisme 0]

9 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

So let me get  this straight, Shaw for Krug.????

BUt for Ghost its Shaw a Second and Fleury???

Well give me Krug he is already a much better player then Ghost ever will be and we only have to give up shaw to get him. Sign me up for that deal..

Ghost has more value because of his contract

but i would prefer Krug... but i dont see how Boston and Montreal make a deal like that

I definitely believe that they are trying to move Krug and don't want too much salary back. Both Carlo and McAvoy are RFAs this year, and Krug only has a year left

[BigTed3 0]

10 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

So let me get  this straight, Shaw for Krug.????

BUt for Ghost its Shaw a Second and Fleury???

Well give me Krug he is already a much better player then Ghost ever will be and we only have to give up shaw to get him. Sign me up for that deal..

Hard disagree for me. Gostisbehere is worth more than Krug. Why? Well, they're both good players. They both contribute offensively, and their point productions per ice time are pretty similar. Krug's possession numbers are a slight touch ahead but when you look at their Coris relatives, Ghost's numbers are actually better. Krug played a for a strong team, and Ghost played for a bad team. There's IMO a bit more potential for Ghost to be better than what he's shown than Krug. All in all, though, I think you're getting pretty similar value from each guy.

Now take their situations. Ghost is 26. Krug is 28. Krug is in the last year of a contract with a 5.25M cap hit. He could either walk after next year, or he could re-up for a higher cap hit (he's not making less). Ghost, on the other hand, is signed for 4.5M for another 4 years. That's almost a perfect contract in terms of getting a guy through the rest of his prime, getting out of the contract as he hits his 30s, and having a lower cap hit than the older Krug is going to be on, if you're even able to re-sign him. So similar production, similar possession metrics, but a younger guy on a friendlier contract with some long-term assurance that he'll be here on a cost-controlled deal = much better value by trading for Ghost.

[CaptWelly 0]

12 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Hard disagree for me. Gostisbehere is worth more than Krug. Why? Well, they're both good players. They both contribute offensively, and their point productions per ice time are pretty similar. Krug's possession numbers are a slight touch ahead but when you look at their Coris relatives, Ghost's numbers are actually better. Krug played a for a strong team, and Ghost played for a bad team. There's IMO a bit more potential for Ghost to be better than what he's shown than Krug. All in all, though, I think you're getting pretty similar value from each guy.

Now take their situations. Ghost is 26. Krug is 28. Krug is in the last year of a contract with a 5.25M cap hit. He could either walk after next year, or he could re-up for a higher cap hit (he's not making less). Ghost, on the other hand, is signed for 4.5M for another 4 years. That's almost a perfect contract in terms of getting a guy through the rest of his prime, getting out of the contract as he hits his 30s, and having a lower cap hit than the older Krug is going to be on, if you're even able to re-sign him. So similar production, similar possession metrics, but a younger guy on a friendlier contract with some long-term assurance that he'll be here on a cost-controlled deal = much better value by trading for Ghost.

I agree about the contracts but I believe Krug is a much better overall defenseman. He already is great on the PP but Krug can play the PK and does seem better defensively. Which actually counts for a defenseman.

[kinot-2 0]

2 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I agree about the contracts but I believe Krug is a much better overall defenseman. He already is great on the PP but Krug can play the PK and does seem better defensively. Which actually counts for a defenseman.

Ya know, when watching the finals, I paid attention to him. I didn't like him because he was so good. 

[BigTed3 0]

8 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I agree about the contracts but I believe Krug is a much better overall defenseman. He already is great on the PP but Krug can play the PK and does seem better defensively. Which actually counts for a defenseman.

Krug is a good player, not disagreeing with that in the least. But like I said, if you look at point production per ice time and possession metrics, the two guys are pretty neck and neck. Their number of shot attempts against per 60 and scoring chances again per 60 are also pretty comparable at 5v5, with Krug having a very slightly better absolute number but Ghost being better relative to the team he's playing on. Krug has also had a pretty significantly higher rate of starts in the O zone, again probably a product of Boston being so much better than Philly. Again, it's not to say Krug isn't good. He is. But Ghost's numbers (both in terms of offensive production and in terms of possession metric and chances allowed against defensively) are very similar. I'd venture we probably don't see Gostisbehere enough to appreciate what his value is, whereas we see Boston games much more frequently.

I'm not saying I'd choose one guy over the other if they were the same age and on the same contract, but like I said, Ghost being younger and with his reasonable long-term contract, it's clear to me he has higher value than an impending UFA deal. FWIW, Fluto Shintawa, who is a reporter in Boston, reported this week that Krug's camp is rumored to be looking for a long-term deal in the range of 6.5-8M per season (starting in the year where he's already 29 years old). Compare that to Ghost being locked up for 4.5M for 4 years at age 26. Cap hit, value for dollar paid, and age over the duration of the (expected) contract are all hugely in favor of Ghost here, which is why for a comparable player, I think he has much higher value in a trade.