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For me, I’m happy with the team we have. If we just stick with the team we have, that’s cool with me.

as for the Kotkaneimi vs Dubois question... Kotkaniemi looks to have the higher ceiling, my guess is 80 points, give or take. Dubois’ probably more like 70. So that’s about a 10 point difference. Thing is, it’s going to take 2-3 years before KK gets there, maybe 30-40 points this year, 50-60 the year after... Dubois’ ready to give you 70 right now. 
the question is, is the extra 10-15 points per year worth waiting 2-3 years to get it? Or are we better off taking the “money now” approach with Dubois? It depends on how you feel about the current team. If you think this is a team that is 2 or 3 years away from competing, then I think you absolutely pass on Dubois. But if you think this is a team built to compete right now, and you can add a young, “right now” type of player like PLD? That’s tough to pass up. Weber and Price aren’t getting any younger, 2-3 years is a long time to them.

Kotkaneimi might turn out to be the better player 5 years down the road, but that doesn’t discount the fact that PLD would be an immediate improvement to an already promising lineup. Sometimes a little less money now is more valuable than a little more money in the future 

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For me the give would have to be KK and salary going the other way Byron? and a pick.  No way Suzuki, NO way Romanov or any other young dee with the exception of  maybe Mete.

No problem at all giving up KK for PLD, Not sure why I hear KK has a better upside or will be better than PLD in  2 or 3 years. PLD put up 20 goals and almsot 50 points as a 19 year old and 27 at 20. 

KK was sent back to the AHL at 19. 

Having said that I do really like KK and if the trade never happens I am fine with having KK for then next 10 years. But if the cost is say KK, Byron and a pick. I would make that trade. 

 

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13 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Ok side note. Important rumour here! Not sure how true it is cause it came from Eklund BUUUUUT according to him Chris Lee will NOT ref any Habs games this season!!!!!! :5210::5210::5210:

THIS^^^^^^

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14 hours ago, campabee82 said:

According to the story refs werr assigned their own division and will stay within that division until the conference finals. Chris Lee was not assigned to the North Division

Grain of salt. 

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16 hours ago, campabee82 said:

According to the story refs werr assigned their own division and will stay within that division until the conference finals. Chris Lee was not assigned to the North Division

Yeah, North Division refs will stay the same unless border restrictions loosen later on in year. For now, they are

- Brad Meier

- Marc Joanette

- Eric Furlatt

- Kevin Pollock

- Kendrick Nicholson

- Chris Schlenker

- Graham Skilliter

 

with a few AHL refs as back-ups. It's conceivable a ref could change countries during the season if they quarantine for 14 days, but the NHL said the 7 refs chosen are Canadians who reside in Canada all year, so it made it easier for them to stay with their families and not have to cross borders. No Chris Lee, no Tim Peel. We still have to put up with Furlatt's ego and Skilliter's incompetence though.

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1 hour ago, 26NCounting said:

Rumors are MTL and CBJ are very close to a deal, any speculation on what the deal consists of???

If thats true then one would assume its about PLD.  I love Dubois and think he'd be an excellent add  - but - i worry about what we'd have to give up.   

Ive heard people speculate we'd move Suzuki (I would be in absolute shock if we did) and/or Romanov (again, no way this happens imho) but there's an outside chance MB would consider moving JK as the main piece in a Dubois deal.   I understand that people would hesistate on this - JK is 2 years younger and may actually end up being better in the long run, but if you're MB and you truly think we have a shot at winning this year... which centre gives you a better shot in the next 1-2 years? I know that  Jarmo Kekäläinen was very high on JK when he was drafted. 

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Hmmm I still think I would hold onto KK as I believe he is going to be of the same caliber as PLD.  Now I would move a DD + caufield I think that might be a fair deal as Caufield is all speculative talent.  He was non existent at the WJC

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2 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

Hmmm I still think I would hold onto KK as I believe he is going to be of the same caliber as PLD.  Now I would move a DD + caufield I think that might be a fair deal as Caufield is all speculative talent.  He was non existent at the WJC

I agree on the hanging onto KK part but as far as Caufield goes I would push for a D prospect instead as we have a ton of good ones.

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2 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

Hmmm I still think I would hold onto KK as I believe he is going to be of the same caliber as PLD.  Now I would move a DD + caufield I think that might be a fair deal as Caufield is all speculative talent.  He was non existent at the WJC

Who is DD?  

I do agree that its entirely possible JK is going to be as good as PLD - maybe even better.  I think the reason to make that swap would be that right now - probably for the next 1-2 years PLD is most likely better... and if we honestly think we can win NOW  then its not the worst move to make.  You're not giving away Iginla for Niewendyk (even though that did help Dallas get a cup), PLD is still very young, but you are giving up a bit in age and contract for the more established player.  

My guess is you could get PLD for JK + Byron  + Prospect/mid pick.   IM not saying im 100% sold id do it but i know for certain I wouldnt give up Suzuki for him.  

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27 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Who is DD?  

I do agree that its entirely possible JK is going to be as good as PLD - maybe even better.  I think the reason to make that swap would be that right now - probably for the next 1-2 years PLD is most likely better... and if we honestly think we can win NOW  then its not the worst move to make.  You're not giving away Iginla for Niewendyk (even though that did help Dallas get a cup), PLD is still very young, but you are giving up a bit in age and contract for the more established player.  

My guess is you could get PLD for JK + Byron  + Prospect/mid pick.   IM not saying im 100% sold id do it but i know for certain I wouldnt give up Suzuki for him.  

I assume DD was supposed to be PD (Danault)

IMO deal of PD + Norlinder\Guhle + 1st and 2nd for PLD and a 3rd might be the most fair for both sides. Danault keeps the Blue Jackets in win now mode as well Guhle\Norlinder are still A+ prospects and the 2 top picks evens up the value.

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My feeling is that we're going to be disappointed by any PLD trade. The Jackets have their backs against the wall with his trade demand and desire to play here. Any other team would have to factor in that he might walk out on them when he's a UFA and he's also stated he wants to play in a big spotlight city, so he might refuse to report if he goes to an Arizona or Minnesota or Florida. I think the list of teams legitimately in on this would be small. MB also doesn't need to make this trade. We have two young centers who have the potential to be just as good as PLD. So if there's any negotiation, MB should be waiting for Kekalainen to come to his terms. Suzuki is a no-go for me. I think Suzuki will be better than PLD in the long run and likely cheaper for the next few years. Romanov and Norlinder are also no-go's. Anyone else could be on the table depending on the trade, but it has to make sense for us.

An ideal trade for us? Danault + Byron + one of Guhle/Harris/Struble

A viable trade for both sides? Kotkaniemi + Byron + one of Guhle/Harris/Struble

I do worry about MB drooling over a Quebec-born player with size and skill and giving up too much. He jumped on Drouin despite the red flags surrounding behavior and while the trade wasn't awful, he gave up the extra conditional pick and he didn't capitalize on the fact the player was in the doghouse in Tampa. There's the potential here for MB to really steal a trade here from Columbus and I'd hate to see him force something when we don't need PLD per say.

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6 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

My feeling is that we're going to be disappointed by any PLD trade. The Jackets have their backs against the wall with his trade demand and desire to play here. Any other team would have to factor in that he might walk out on them when he's a UFA and he's also stated he wants to play in a big spotlight city, so he might refuse to report if he goes to an Arizona or Minnesota or Florida. I think the list of teams legitimately in on this would be small. MB also doesn't need to make this trade. We have two young centers who have the potential to be just as good as PLD. So if there's any negotiation, MB should be waiting for Kekalainen to come to his terms. Suzuki is a no-go for me. I think Suzuki will be better than PLD in the long run and likely cheaper for the next few years. Romanov and Norlinder are also no-go's. Anyone else could be on the table depending on the trade, but it has to make sense for us.

An ideal trade for us? Danault + Byron + one of Guhle/Harris/Struble

A viable trade for both sides? Kotkaniemi + Byron + one of Guhle/Harris/Struble

I do worry about MB drooling over a Quebec-born player with size and skill and giving up too much. He jumped on Drouin despite the red flags surrounding behavior and while the trade wasn't awful, he gave up the extra conditional pick and he didn't capitalize on the fact the player was in the doghouse in Tampa. There's the potential here for MB to really steal a trade here from Columbus and I'd hate to see him force something when we don't need PLD per say.

I would love the first of your trades lol.

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15 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

My feeling is that we're going to be disappointed by any PLD trade. The Jackets have their backs against the wall with his trade demand and desire to play here. Any other team would have to factor in that he might walk out on them when he's a UFA and he's also stated he wants to play in a big spotlight city, so he might refuse to report if he goes to an Arizona or Minnesota or Florida. I think the list of teams legitimately in on this would be small. MB also doesn't need to make this trade. We have two young centers who have the potential to be just as good as PLD. So if there's any negotiation, MB should be waiting for Kekalainen to come to his terms. Suzuki is a no-go for me. I think Suzuki will be better than PLD in the long run and likely cheaper for the next few years. Romanov and Norlinder are also no-go's. Anyone else could be on the table depending on the trade, but it has to make sense for us.

An ideal trade for us? Danault + Byron + one of Guhle/Harris/Struble

A viable trade for both sides? Kotkaniemi + Byron + one of Guhle/Harris/Struble

I do worry about MB drooling over a Quebec-born player with size and skill and giving up too much. He jumped on Drouin despite the red flags surrounding behavior and while the trade wasn't awful, he gave up the extra conditional pick and he didn't capitalize on the fact the player was in the doghouse in Tampa. There's the potential here for MB to really steal a trade here from Columbus and I'd hate to see him force something when we don't need PLD per say.

Very well said & I agree on all points, especially about MB needing to stick to his guns & say "This is our offer, take it or leave it" - do not cave to Kekalainen's terms. We do not *need* PLD (even though he could make us better) they *need* to find a home for him in the next 2 years as its apparent he is not keen on sticking around. Sure he'll be RFA then but i could see negotiations being very very bad he's allowed to go into that summer without a contract.  

In the scenario of your "ideal" trade - we get better and younger. Its win-win - the only disadvantage is that we lose a terrifically underrated player in Danault but Suzuki, JK and PLD are all competent defensively - i think we'd be able to absorb that lost. Im not sure, however, that Columbus makes that trade. We also of course dont know what teams like Winnipeg would be offering.  For example, is Laine part of their package?   And of course there's likely plenty of other teams that have kicked tires on PLD.  

In the second (viable) scenario, we lose an equally good young player in JK - who maybe has the potential to be better even... but - is he that good right now? No.  in 2021, PLD is the better player.  So if your goal is win-now then PLD for JK (+parts) is still a decent move.  In 2 or 3 years time JK may be better but Price, Weber, Petry & co will all be 2-3 years older too... 

 

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29 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

My feeling is that we're going to be disappointed by any PLD trade. The Jackets have their backs against the wall with his trade demand and desire to play here. Any other team would have to factor in that he might walk out on them when he's a UFA and he's also stated he wants to play in a big spotlight city, so he might refuse to report if he goes to an Arizona or Minnesota or Florida. I think the list of teams legitimately in on this would be small. MB also doesn't need to make this trade. We have two young centers who have the potential to be just as good as PLD. So if there's any negotiation, MB should be waiting for Kekalainen to come to his terms. Suzuki is a no-go for me. I think Suzuki will be better than PLD in the long run and likely cheaper for the next few years. Romanov and Norlinder are also no-go's. Anyone else could be on the table depending on the trade, but it has to make sense for us.

An ideal trade for us? Danault + Byron + one of Guhle/Harris/Struble

A viable trade for both sides? Kotkaniemi + Byron + one of Guhle/Harris/Struble

I do worry about MB drooling over a Quebec-born player with size and skill and giving up too much. He jumped on Drouin despite the red flags surrounding behavior and while the trade wasn't awful, he gave up the extra conditional pick and he didn't capitalize on the fact the player was in the doghouse in Tampa. There's the potential here for MB to really steal a trade here from Columbus and I'd hate to see him force something when we don't need PLD per say.

I agree with this for the first time in a long time we don't have any glaring holes in the lineup. that said we do have room for improvement Mostly on D but any top tier player would be good. as for myself the only guy I would not move at all is Suzuki for me he is untouchable KK could go I may not agree but 1 for 1 I think PLD IS better right now if we can shed a bit of salary with a throw in then fine. the main thing for me is we don't have to make any trade so don't rush into a bad deal.

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8 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Very well said & I agree on all points, especially about MB needing to stick to his guns & say "This is our offer, take it or leave it" - do not cave to Kekalainen's terms. We do not *need* PLD (even though he could make us better) they *need* to find a home for him in the next 2 years as its apparent he is not keen on sticking around. Sure he'll be RFA then but i could see negotiations being very very bad he's allowed to go into that summer without a contract.  

In the scenario of your "ideal" trade - we get better and younger. Its win-win - the only disadvantage is that we lose a terrifically underrated player in Danault but Suzuki, JK and PLD are all competent defensively - i think we'd be able to absorb that lost. Im not sure, however, that Columbus makes that trade. We also of course dont know what teams like Winnipeg would be offering.  For example, is Laine part of their package?   And of course there's likely plenty of other teams that have kicked tires on PLD.  

In the second (viable) scenario, we lose an equally good young player in JK - who maybe has the potential to be better even... but - is he that good right now? No.  in 2021, PLD is the better player.  So if your goal is win-now then PLD for JK (+parts) is still a decent move.  In 2 or 3 years time JK may be better but Price, Weber, Petry & co will all be 2-3 years older too... 

 

Imagine the offense we would pick up with PLD over Dano! it may outweigh any defensive downside. Tater Pld Gally..........hmmm

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I'm not so sure i would want to disrupt the lineup at this time. Is that guy better or as good as Dano at faceoffs? Dano is probably the only guy on our team that can be counted on consistently to win that big draw. IMO that creates a hole. 

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Just an off the board idea:

PLD for Price

Any takers on that?

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson
Kotkaniemi-Dubois-Armia
Lehkonen-Evans-Byron

Allen
Primeau
and $5m in cap space

Edited by Windoe
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17 minutes ago, Windoe said:

Just an off the board idea:

PLD for Price

Any takers on that?
 

No way Columbus takes that deal.  If they lose PLD they need a centre coming back.  Their goalies are young, but so far look pretty good.   Also, i dont think MB considers moving Price at this point. 

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14 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Not a rumor just a question. Do you think that it would be fair value to trade Armia + Kulak + Weal for Pearson + Vancouver's 2022 4th? Also would you do it considering how well Kulak has been playing?

I mean its probably not too far off being "fair" for the right team but im not sure why either team would do it.

Pearson is probably the best player in that group but Armia brings something Pearson does not (much better defensive acumen and puck control), meanwhile we have a lot of players in the lineup like Toffoli, Byron, Lehkonen and co who bring a simliar game to Pearson. Even a couple of guys on our taxi squad may be of the same fit, if not a bit older obviously.    Weal is a negative value (salary offset yes but still probably negative).

Personally id have no interest in the deal because i dont think we need it, I dont think Van would do it, and i dont think Pearson would be happy playing that far down the lineup. The advantage here is turning Armia into an asset (I think its unlikely he stays with us past the summer) and getting rid of Weal but honestly right now we have a decent balance, I dont think we necessarily have to worry too much about cap at this stage. 

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6 hours ago, maas_art said:

I mean its probably not too far off being "fair" for the right team but im not sure why either team would do it.

Pearson is probably the best player in that group but Armia brings something Pearson does not (much better defensive acumen and puck control), meanwhile we have a lot of players in the lineup like Toffoli, Byron, Lehkonen and co who bring a simliar game to Pearson. Even a couple of guys on our taxi squad may be of the same fit, if not a bit older obviously.    Weal is a negative value (salary offset yes but still probably negative).

Personally id have no interest in the deal because i dont think we need it, I dont think Van would do it, and i dont think Pearson would be happy playing that far down the lineup. The advantage here is turning Armia into an asset (I think its unlikely he stays with us past the summer) and getting rid of Weal but honestly right now we have a decent balance, I dont think we necessarily have to worry too much about cap at this stage. 

My thoughts were

1. Pushes Toffoli back to natural side

2. Gives 3rd line some added scoring

3. If we can't resign Tuna Pearson would move up a spot (we would obviously have to resign him and he would be cheaper than tuna) and be no worse off than we are right now.

4. Some cap savings.

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