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3 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

The problem with Ghost is he is a one dimensional player ... offensive D, much like Marc Andre Bergeron was.  If he's not bringing Offense he's a liability defensively.   If he's not contributing offensively he's a bottom pairing guy at best.

He had one good season (2017/2018) with 65pts ... since then over the last 145 games he's averaging half that pace (for example this year 36 pts over 82 games with his current totals).    36pts for a guy on the backend who can't play defensively?

The thing is, we don't need a defensively responsible player. We need an offensive defenseman that will drive the play from the back end. Whether he plays with Weber or Petry they are responsible enough defensively to cover Ghost's liabilities. Even Romanov is good enough defensively to cover for him. When everyone is healthy we could line up

Edmundson-Petry

Ghost-Weber

Chiarot-Romanov

with Kulak subbing in when needed.

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11 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

The problem with Ghost is he is a one dimensional player ... offensive D, much like Marc Andre Bergeron was.  If he's not bringing Offense he's a liability defensively.   If he's not contributing offensively he's a bottom pairing guy at best.

He had one good season (2017/2018) with 65pts ... since then over the last 145 games he's averaging half that pace (for example this year 36 pts over 82 games with his current totals).    36pts for a guy on the backend who can't play defensively?

I dont disagree with his skill set but the reason he's been offensively stuck the last little while is that hte flyers are asking him to play a more all-round defensive role, which he is not as well suited for. So you get an average 2 way defensman or a high end offense-only dman.

On a team like the flyers, maybe you dont have the luxury of getting him to play offense only (they have a very strong LD but not great RHD) but if you pair him with weber i think he'd do ok. On paper, he's the perfect compliment for the captain.  IRL maybe not but id be willing to bet it would be better than Chairot-Weber or Edmundson-Weber. 

 

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14 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

The thing is, we don't need a defensively responsible player. We need an offensive defenseman that will drive the play from the back end. Whether he plays with Weber or Petry they are responsible enough defensively to cover Ghost's liabilities. Even Romanov is good enough defensively to cover for him. When everyone is healthy we could line up

Edmundson-Petry

Ghost-Weber

Chiarot-Romanov

with Kulak subbing in when needed.

Even accepting the premise that Ghost wouldn't be a net minus ... a better line up would be

Romanov is in fact a LD ... and should be played as such

The bottom pairing is a problem as we have Kulak, Chiarot and Edmundson who are all LD ... so Fleury/Brook on the bottom pairing on the RD spot and dump 1 or 2 of the bottom pairing LD's to another team.  So you wind up wirh

Romanov - Petry

Ghost - Weber

Kulak - Fleury

On paper looks far better than what we've been rolling ... however ... we're seemingly agreed Ghost is a defensive liability, well Weber isn't playing great so those pairings are a crapshoot

 

 

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Interesting rumour floating that MB has been talking with Columbus about Patrick Laine. 

He's been a hot-mess in Columbus (7G in 26 games) and (not surprisingly) on bad terms with Torts.  Sounds like they are preparing for an ugly offseason (He'll be RFA but has arbitration rights) and with PLD doing so well in Winnipeg, would love to ship off PL for something & divert the attention. We have apparently always coveted him & did at least enquire about his availability at some point. 


Im just not sure what we could give up to get him, that we'd want to lose. 

I am confident he'd bounce back (he's only 22 and like most goal scorers, is streaky) but you'd likely have to include at least one young high end player.  I am not giving up Suzuki, JK or Romanov for Laine. I wouldnt give up Anderson or Toffoli either, even though I think Laine will bounce back and presumably be better than any of them.   Other than that, im pretty open to anyone who's on our current roster (Petry being the only older player id adamantly say no to dealing). 

If i had to guess, id say Columbus probably would want Caufield + Tatar (or Drouin) + pick.   You'd have to massage it a bit (Byron maybe?) to offset the cap.  With CC so close to making his NHL debut, Id would have a hard time making that move even though Laine is more of a sure thing at this point. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

. If i had to guess, id say Columbus probably would want Caufield + Tatar (or Drouin) + pick.   You'd have to massage it a bit (Byron maybe?) to offset the cap.  With CC so close to making his NHL debut, Id would have a hard time making that move even though Laine is more of a sure thing at this point.

 

I have a feeling they would want Gally. He's the type of player that Torts would drool over IMO. Unless the Jackets are planning on a coach change, i imagine he'd be high on the want list. Not sure Cole would mesh well with Torts because he's not overly physical with his style of play from what i've seen. Drouin would be in Torts doghouse in a week and Tuna being a UFA would be a gamble without a deal in place for an extension. The question is,,, does it make sense for us to trade a fairly consistent player like Gally for an enigma like Laine? 

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4 hours ago, maas_art said:

Interesting rumour floating that MB has been talking with Columbus about Patrick Laine. 

He's been a hot-mess in Columbus (7G in 26 games) and (not surprisingly) on bad terms with Torts.  Sounds like they are preparing for an ugly offseason (He'll be RFA but has arbitration rights) and with PLD doing so well in Winnipeg, would love to ship off PL for something & divert the attention. We have apparently always coveted him & did at least enquire about his availability at some point. 


Im just not sure what we could give up to get him, that we'd want to lose. 

I am confident he'd bounce back (he's only 22 and like most goal scorers, is streaky) but you'd likely have to include at least one young high end player.  I am not giving up Suzuki, JK or Romanov for Laine. I wouldnt give up Anderson or Toffoli either, even though I think Laine will bounce back and presumably be better than any of them.   Other than that, im pretty open to anyone who's on our current roster (Petry being the only older player id adamantly say no to dealing). 

If i had to guess, id say Columbus probably would want Caufield + Tatar (or Drouin) + pick.   You'd have to massage it a bit (Byron maybe?) to offset the cap.  With CC so close to making his NHL debut, Id would have a hard time making that move even though Laine is more of a sure thing at this point. 

 

 

 

With everyone 's opinion so high on Drouin, I make him the centerpiece in any trade for Patrick Laine. Throw in Byron, Mete or Kulak & a first, maybe a second too, and we have a deal. Do it Bergy!.

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6 minutes ago, electron58 said:

With everyone 's opinion so high on Drouin, I make him the centerpiece in any trade for Patrick Laine. Throw in Byron, Mete or Kulak & a first, maybe a second too, and we have a deal. Do it Bergy!.

Drouin and Torts,,,,, can you imagine?:lol:

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37 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Drouin and Torts,,,,, can you imagine?:lol:

Yeah  I had to laugh when I read that. But he's Canadian. Wouldn't be our problem. I'll take on their problem. Can you imagine PL & CC on our 2 powerplays? Wicked Awesome!

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On 3/29/2021 at 6:50 PM, H_T_L said:

I'm not convinced MB will be dumping our UFA's. He just paid to acquire one and his thinking might be why not keep our own for the playoffs? Doesn't make sense to sell one for picks unless we're going to use those picks to fill a hole. Can't see him selling unless we go on a losing streak from now to the deadline.

I agree. No cup since 93. MB is going for it. His job is on the line as well this year. The time is now. Danault and Tatar are not going anywhere for picks. The future is now.

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13 hours ago, maas_art said:

I am confident he'd bounce back (he's only 22 and like most goal scorers, is streaky) but you'd likely have to include at least one young high end player.  I am not giving up Suzuki, JK or Romanov for Laine. I wouldnt give up Anderson or Toffoli either, even though I think Laine will bounce back and presumably be better than any of them.   Other than that, im pretty open to anyone who's on our current roster (Petry being the only older player id adamantly say no to dealing). 

If i had to guess, id say Columbus probably would want Caufield + Tatar (or Drouin) + pick.   You'd have to massage it a bit (Byron maybe?) to offset the cap.  With CC so close to making his NHL debut, Id would have a hard time making that move even though Laine is more of a sure thing at this point.

It's definitely tempting and I'd probably do it. I'd hate losing Caufield obviously but even though he seems to have all the tools, we don't know if they will translate to the big league. Laine is the more proven asset for sure, size isn't a concern, and chances are Caufield won't be much of an upgrade defensively compared to PL. Tenacity/hustle/work ethic maybe, but how effective will he be in that regard given his stature? If they want Drouin, I'm not throwing in a pick though, unless they take Byron too. That would give CLB a top 6 winger and a bottom 6 winger who can help right away, plus a blue-chip prospect and a pick (2nd rounder?), while we'd get a pure scoring winger in his prime and gain valuable cap space which we'll need to re-sign the guy. Sounds fairly even to me, the question is if there are teams who are willing to offer more, which may well be the case.

Also, pure conjecture on my part, but Laine strikes me as the kind of player who would thrive in a market like Montreal. It's definitely an interesting (and note entirely surprising) situation in CLB...

Edited by ChiLla
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How about the Habs trade Kulak to Ottawa for Gubranson.  Ottawa retains difference in salary to make Cap work.  Habs could add a third if necessary to get it done.  Gubranson would pair on the right side with Romanov.   

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Gostisbehere one-dimensional? His possession numbers are excellent. That's what I care about. IMO, pair him with the right guy on Montreal and you could end up really improving our team. And he's signed to very reasonable money and term.

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29 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Gostisbehere one-dimensional? His possession numbers are excellent. That's what I care about. IMO, pair him with the right guy on Montreal and you could end up really improving our team. And he's signed to very reasonable money and term.

Advanced metrics especially for defense man all to often don't show the actual player. When he's not on the PP he just isn't sound defensively. If you watch him he takes chances at the wrong times. He's just doesn't have great hockey sense for his position. There's good reason he's in and out of the lineup. Philly was obviously willing to let him go for nothing. Their defense is what has been killing their team this year. 

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There will be a number of teams that will turnover some substantial players if they don't make the playoffs as you cannot keep losing with the same guys - I see Philly being one of them with Ghost. Columbus, Calgary, possibly St. Louis are others. I certainly hope we go for young emerging talent (ok not Jordan Weal types), that can be built around.

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Somewhat surprisingly, Ghost cleared waivers. I was sure someone would have taken a chance, but i guess those multi-year deals are risky right now.  I do wonder if a move for salary would make sense.  I feel like you could probably offer Chairot for Ghost & Philly would bite.  I dont think MB would though. 

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37 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Somewhat surprisingly, Ghost cleared waivers. I was sure someone would have taken a chance, but i guess those multi-year deals are risky right now.  I do wonder if a move for salary would make sense.  I feel like you could probably offer Chairot for Ghost & Philly would bite.  I dont think MB would though. 

You do realize why ghost was put on waivers right, he is the Galchenyuk version on defense, brutall. Why people want him I am not sure???

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22 hours ago, campabee82 said:

The thing is, we don't need a defensively responsible player. We need an offensive defenseman that will drive the play from the back end.

A D man , that is not defensively responsible, would most probably not fit in with the Montreal Canadiens 

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32 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

You do realize why ghost was put on waivers right, he is the Galchenyuk version on defense, brutall. Why people want him I am not sure???

He's considerably better defensively than a lot of people give him credit for. So for me, I would strongly disagree with your assessment of "brutal defensively." But thats ok, we all have our own opinions of players.  I have watched him plenty & would say he'd still likely be our #1 LHD if we had claimed him (obviously that also speaks to how weak we are on the left side of the D)

As for the galchenuyk assessment:  He's a defensman & has the exact same PPG (.57) career stat as Galcheyuk - that alone says he's substantially more important (even if his defensive shortcomings are as bad as some think) because he is scoring at the rate of a mid-level forward. 

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10 hours ago, ChiLla said:

It's definitely tempting and I'd probably do it. I'd hate losing Caufield obviously but even though he seems to have all the tools, we don't know if they will translate to the big league. Laine is the more proven asset for sure, size isn't a concern, and chances are Caufield won't be much of an upgrade defensively compared to PL. Tenacity/hustle/work ethic maybe, but how effective will he be in that regard given his stature? If they want Drouin, I'm not throwing in a pick though, unless they take Byron too. That would give CLB a top 6 winger and a bottom 6 winger who can help right away, plus a blue-chip prospect and a pick (2nd rounder?), while we'd get a pure scoring winger in his prime and gain valuable cap space which we'll need to re-sign the guy. Sounds fairly even to me, the question is if there are teams who are willing to offer more, which may well be the case.

Also, pure conjecture on my part, but Laine strikes me as the kind of player who would thrive in a market like Montreal. It's definitely an interesting (and note entirely surprising) situation in CLB...

I don't give up Caufield in any trade. Sweeten it another way, but, No to CC. We need some elite talent at entry level rates. If Columbus really think they have to move PL, then they'll make it work.

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12 hours ago, ChiLla said:

It's definitely tempting and I'd probably do it. I'd hate losing Caufield obviously but even though he seems to have all the tools, we don't know if they will translate to the big league. Laine is the more proven asset for sure, size isn't a concern, and chances are Caufield won't be much of an upgrade defensively compared to PL. Tenacity/hustle/work ethic maybe, but how effective will he be in that regard given his stature? If they want Drouin, I'm not throwing in a pick though, unless they take Byron too. That would give CLB a top 6 winger and a bottom 6 winger who can help right away, plus a blue-chip prospect and a pick (2nd rounder?), while we'd get a pure scoring winger in his prime and gain valuable cap space which we'll need to re-sign the guy. Sounds fairly even to me, the question is if there are teams who are willing to offer more, which may well be the case.

Also, pure conjecture on my part, but Laine strikes me as the kind of player who would thrive in a market like Montreal. It's definitely an interesting (and note entirely surprising) situation in CLB...

 

1 hour ago, electron58 said:

I don't give up Caufield in any trade. Sweeten it another way, but, No to CC. We need some elite talent at entry level rates. If Columbus really think they have to move PL, then they'll make it work.

The fact Laine is 22 would probably also make me consider it at least.  Its not like you're giving up CC for a 26 year old. Most NHL players are barely making their debut at Laine's age & he already has a 44 goal season under his belt. Heck, if you prorate last year, he has scored over 30 in all 4 of his seasons so far.   He's a legite elite nhl talent.  Could Caufield be that too? Yes, maybe.  Will he? Who knows.   A bird in the hand...

Of course on the flip side CC offers one huge plus:  ELC.   He's going to be making a pitence (by NHL standards) for 2 more years after this one & wont be UFA for what, 6 years?    Laine is only a few years away from UFA and already makes nearly $7m/season.   If you keep caufield you keep depth players like Tatar, Byron etc.  If you trade CC for PL, you likely lose at least a couple of those as a salary offset.  

Not an easy choice for sure.  But id be shocked if it was even considered.   Maybe MB offers Drouin + Byron + pick but thats about it imho. I cant see him even considering moving on from Suzuki,Romanov,Caufield,Norlinder or JK right now.   Imho those guys are probably untouchable in MB's mind. 

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5 hours ago, maas_art said:

Somewhat surprisingly, Ghost cleared waivers. I was sure someone would have taken a chance, but i guess those multi-year deals are risky right now.  I do wonder if a move for salary would make sense.  I feel like you could probably offer Chairot for Ghost & Philly would bite.  I dont think MB would though. 

That could happen in the off season - Chiarot answered the code for KK in the fight that broke his hand. I don't see MB insulting him or the team spirit by trading Chiarot this season. IMO this is an action that transcends the "This is a business" line for now and it's up to Chiarot to deliver in the post season, otherwise he is expendable by trade or non-protection in the expansion draft. 

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14 hours ago, electron58 said:

I don't give up Caufield in any trade. Sweeten it another way, but, No to CC. We need some elite talent at entry level rates. If Columbus really think they have to move PL, then they'll make it work.

 

12 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

The fact Laine is 22 would probably also make me consider it at least.  Its not like you're giving up CC for a 26 year old. Most NHL players are barely making their debut at Laine's age & he already has a 44 goal season under his belt. Heck, if you prorate last year, he has scored over 30 in all 4 of his seasons so far.   He's a legite elite nhl talent.  Could Caufield be that too? Yes, maybe.  Will he? Who knows.   A bird in the hand...

Of course on the flip side CC offers one huge plus:  ELC.   He's going to be making a pitence (by NHL standards) for 2 more years after this one & wont be UFA for what, 6 years?    Laine is only a few years away from UFA and already makes nearly $7m/season.   If you keep caufield you keep depth players like Tatar, Byron etc.  If you trade CC for PL, you likely lose at least a couple of those as a salary offset.  

Not an easy choice for sure.  But id be shocked if it was even considered.   Maybe MB offers Drouin + Byron + pick but thats about it imho. I cant see him even considering moving on from Suzuki,Romanov,Caufield,Norlinder or JK right now.   Imho those guys are probably untouchable in MB's mind. 

 

12 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm not trading Cole Caulfield unless we are getting an incredible young D coming back. Otherwise, I'd rather just see him develop in our system and play NHL games for Montreal.

All very valid points. Even though Laine is struggling this season under Tortorella, which the majority probably expected, I still think he's an elite scoring winger with a strong chance of bouncing back under the right circumstances. Columbus has issues down the middle and I'd love to see Laine with Suzuki or Kotkaniemi. Anyway, I don't think it'll happen given our cap situation and as jen pointed out, adding a young, mobile Dman is certainly a more pressing need. It's a fun idea to play around with though, let's see where he ends up.

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