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2019 Stanley Cup Final


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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

The biggest problem with them calling the game as per just the rule book is that on every shift they would be calling some sort of infraction or icing or offside a 3 hour game would then take 5 hours and fans would lose interest no one wants to sit through a game that has a penalty call every 30 seconds that's rediculous leave it the way it is everything already evens out in the most of the time the refs do a pretty good job of not being too one sided for the most part shit happens move on

People worried about that when they decided to crack down on clutching and grabbing a decade or so ago. They told refs to call it more. And what happened? At first, there were more calls and then players adapted and the game got faster. I don't buy the argument that you can't call the rulebook. It might take some adaptation, but if you enforce the rules, players will be forced to change their ways. Here are a few examples of things I would change:

1. Toss guys out for fighting. You fight, it's an automatic game misconduct. Guys can decide if they want to fight or not, but you get one per night and then you're done.

2. Any contact to the head is automatically a penalty. Doesn't matter what intent was. Doesn't matter if it was full-body contact or not. Make it like a high stick. Any high stick is a penalty. Any contact to the head should also be a penalty. Make it a minor, and then a major if there's anything egregious (blindside, leaving feet, elbow, etc.).

3. Be tougher on hits from behind. Don't let guys off just cause the opponent didn't get hurt. In general, call the act and not the result.

4. Get rid of the penalty for knocking a player's stick out of his hands. Tell the guy he should hold his stick stronger. That's on him if he can't. Yeah, you can't knock a guy's stick away when he doesn't have the puck, but if he's the puck carrier, you should be allowed to hack his stick.

5. Be more consistent on goalie interference. I don't even know if they need to change the rule, so much as they have to be more consistent about the way it's called, but for the purposes of taking decisions out of the hands of the refs, I'd say you do something like this: if the offensive player is in the blue paint (defined as the airspace above the area as well) AND makes contact with the goalie, then it's no goal. Forget trying to interpret whether it impeded the goalie or not. Just get players out of there. The exception would be if he's pushed in, then that remains a judgment call, I don't know how you get rid of that.

And on top of that, I think you need to hold the refs more accountable. Put the refs in front of the media after every game. Allow them to speak. Be more transparent with fans about why calls were made or not made and then hold refs to the standard they themselves set. If the ref says a certain call was not made for X reason, then you have that on record the next time the call is made the other way, and it's on the ref to explain why the call should be different.

 

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8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

People worried about that when they decided to crack down on clutching and grabbing a decade or so ago. They told refs to call it more. And what happened? At first, there were more calls and then players adapted and the game got faster. I don't buy the argument that you can't call the rulebook. It might take some adaptation, but if you enforce the rules, players will be forced to change their ways. Here are a few examples of things I would change:

1. Toss guys out for fighting. You fight, it's an automatic game misconduct. Guys can decide if they want to fight or not, but you get one per night and then you're done.

2. Any contact to the head is automatically a penalty. Doesn't matter what intent was. Doesn't matter if it was full-body contact or not. Make it like a high stick. Any high stick is a penalty. Any contact to the head should also be a penalty. Make it a minor, and then a major if there's anything egregious (blindside, leaving feet, elbow, etc.).

3. Be tougher on hits from behind. Don't let guys off just cause the opponent didn't get hurt. In general, call the act and not the result.

4. Get rid of the penalty for knocking a player's stick out of his hands. Tell the guy he should hold his stick stronger. That's on him if he can't. Yeah, you can't knock a guy's stick away when he doesn't have the puck, but if he's the puck carrier, you should be allowed to hack his stick.

5. Be more consistent on goalie interference. I don't even know if they need to change the rule, so much as they have to be more consistent about the way it's called, but for the purposes of taking decisions out of the hands of the refs, I'd say you do something like this: if the offensive player is in the blue paint (defined as the airspace above the area as well) AND makes contact with the goalie, then it's no goal. Forget trying to interpret whether it impeded the goalie or not. Just get players out of there. The exception would be if he's pushed in, then that remains a judgment call, I don't know how you get rid of that.

And on top of that, I think you need to hold the refs more accountable. Put the refs in front of the media after every game. Allow them to speak. Be more transparent with fans about why calls were made or not made and then hold refs to the standard they themselves set. If the ref says a certain call was not made for X reason, then you have that on record the next time the call is made the other way, and it's on the ref to explain why the call should be different.

 

Let me first start off by saying that's not really what I thought you meant by call the rule book I thought you were saying every infraction all the time. 

1. Don't agree with fighting is part of the game not going to change but they shouldn't be allowed to just start punching an unwilling or unsuspecting player either.

2 totally agree with.

3. Semi agree with cause there are players who turn their backs as an opposing player is delivering a hit which is on that player not the checker

4. Semi agree with all players can hold their stick when trying to score in front of the net so why can't they any other time however if you just let hacking go one there may be an increase in hand injuries so add it to the diving rule if the ref feels like it was embellished then it's a dive.

5. Agree this needs to be more consistent 

6. AGREE TOTALLY there should be some sort of accountability for the refs maybe that's post game interviews or something else but something definitely needs to change there.

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^^ Yes, there are some players who turn their back to take a hit from behind to draw a penalty. I wouldn't try to make these calls if that's the ref's best estimation of what happened. What I'm talking about is more the play where a guy clearly pummels a guy from behind and the ref watches it and waits a few seconds and if the guy who got hit gets back up, he calls nothing but if he stays down, then he raises his hand late... just call it. Don't wait to see if a guy got hurt. There has to be more respect for not doing that. Even little shoves in the lower back when a guy is 3-4 feet from the boards are dangerous.

On fighting, you look at other sports and if in soccer or basketball or football a player were to throw a punch, they would be expelled. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching one of our guys pound a player like Darcy Tucker or Brad Marchand or so on, but that's not really the point. The point is that it doesn't really advance the game at all to have fights. In most cases, they are staged fights between two goons who want to prove to their coaches they still have a place in the league. I'm not saying fighting won't still happen, but make it so that any fight is an automatic game misconduct. You want to do it, you have to think twice about whether it's worth it to you to be missing to your team. Take away the onus for coaches to dress goons and maybe it'll help with the speed of the game and reduce the number of guys who are clutching, grabbing, and making illegal hits as well.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ Yes, there are some players who turn their back to take a hit from behind to draw a penalty. I wouldn't try to make these calls if that's the ref's best estimation of what happened. What I'm talking about is more the play where a guy clearly pummels a guy from behind and the ref watches it and waits a few seconds and if the guy who got hit gets back up, he calls nothing but if he stays down, then he raises his hand late... just call it. Don't wait to see if a guy got hurt. There has to be more respect for not doing that. Even little shoves in the lower back when a guy is 3-4 feet from the boards are dangerous.

On fighting, you look at other sports and if in soccer or basketball or football a player were to throw a punch, they would be expelled. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching one of our guys pound a player like Darcy Tucker or Brad Marchand or so on, but that's not really the point. The point is that it doesn't really advance the game at all to have fights. In most cases, they are staged fights between two goons who want to prove to their coaches they still have a place in the league. I'm not saying fighting won't still happen, but make it so that any fight is an automatic game misconduct. You want to do it, you have to think twice about whether it's worth it to you to be missing to your team. Take away the onus for coaches to dress goons and maybe it'll help with the speed of the game and reduce the number of guys who are clutching, grabbing, and making illegal hits as well.

I agree with all of the points you've mentioned. I seem to remember a time when slashing had nothing to do with stick on stick play, when any hit three feet or more into the boards was called boarding, when a player taking more than 5 strides to check a player was called charging, when a crosscheck was the obvious use of the stick in that fashion was a penalty, when hooking was using the "hook" of the stick blade to impede a player, when interference was a penalty any time a player without the puck was obstructed and/or checked in any way and any time a player was hit from behind regardless of how it occurred was a penalty... and when many of the dangerous infractions above were considered 5 minute major penalties. There is no need for fighting or any of the unsportsmanlike conduct after whistles... you throw a punch you get ejected, plain and simple. None of that behavior is really hockey in the pure sense of the word.

But the macho-mantra of the old boys who run the league remains, "There must be blood" and the name of the game is "violence preferred".

Just one more point.... watching the game the other night where some were upset over the non call that lead to the winning goal.... earlier in the game the Bruins actually did the same thing and that was not called either... albeit no goal was scored against the Blues... in retrospect, I wonder if it was the same Referee

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