H_T_L

2019-20 If i were GM

352 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

Out with the old and in with the new.

The thread or the GM?

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5 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

The thread or the GM?

Thread for now might as well give the GM until July 15th before making a final decision on him cause he earned a little bit of a reprieve last year. But if he does nothing or one thing stupid he would be gone IMO

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

The thread or the GM?

Leaving that to the imagination.:lol:

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I find it quite funny how often people toss Drouin's name out there as trade bait. He's on a pretty friendly contract and put up 53 points last season. Yeah, sure... we all want him to be better. Well... he might be better this season. 24 years old. Still time to improve, I think. The only way I'm trading him is if we really, really can improve in a position we are lacking (i.e. LD). Other than that, I think you want his value to improve before dumping him, no?

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32 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I find it quite funny how often people toss Drouin's name out there as trade bait. He's on a pretty friendly contract and put up 53 points last season. Yeah, sure... we all want him to be better. Well... he might be better this season. 24 years old. Still time to improve, I think. The only way I'm trading him is if we really, really can improve in a position we are lacking (i.e. LD). Other than that, I think you want his value to improve before dumping him, no?

I've thrown his name out there as the assett that might bring us a top LD simply because as the roster stands now Drouin is the square peg the organization is trying to mold into a round hole ... maybe they shave enough off this year that he fits, but if you can get that top LD for him well ...

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34 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

I've thrown his name out there as the assett that might bring us a top LD simply because as the roster stands now Drouin is the square peg the organization is trying to mold into a round hole ... maybe they shave enough off this year that he fits, but if you can get that top LD for him well ...

And that makes perfect sense, I think. However, it is kind of comical how he's mentioned by so many people here in almost every possible armchair transaction. There's always a "flavor of the month" or "flavor of the year" player we want to get rid of.

For me, Drouin is a good player, on a good contract, who might get better in the next few seasons. Unless the return is a for-sure, top-quality LD... I might just hang onto Drouin.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I find it quite funny how often people toss Drouin's name out there as trade bait. He's on a pretty friendly contract and put up 53 points last season. Yeah, sure... we all want him to be better. Well... he might be better this season. 24 years old. Still time to improve, I think. The only way I'm trading him is if we really, really can improve in a position we are lacking (i.e. LD). Other than that, I think you want his value to improve before dumping him, no?

It's one thing if you're arguing a player needs time to get better or adjust to the NHL. With Drouin, it seems to be more an attitude and effort question than anything else, and I have concerns that will never improve. With Galchenyuk, it was more a question of hockey IQ and lack of experience as a center. In Drouin's case, it's just his giving up on plays or not putting in effort defensively or going off on changes while his linemates are back-checking. His on-paper numbers are fine. His contract is fine. And that's exactly why I would look to trade him now, before his value goes down the tubes because of a rift with the coach or so on.

If we kept Drouin, I would play him. I would play him in the top 6. He's one of our better forwards. But as a GM, you always want to envision whether your players' stocks are likely to go up or down, and I see Drouin's as going down over the next couple of years, moreso for off-ice issues or effort than anything else. We have a giant hole at LHD. We have a surplus of wingers. So if there's a guy who has value now who could fill the LHD hole AND help us move on from a player whose value has a higher risk of dropping than others, that's the move I'd make.

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3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I find it quite funny how often people toss Drouin's name out there as trade bait. He's on a pretty friendly contract and put up 53 points last season. Yeah, sure... we all want him to be better. Well... he might be better this season. 24 years old. Still time to improve, I think. The only way I'm trading him is if we really, really can improve in a position we are lacking (i.e. LD). Other than that, I think you want his value to improve before dumping him, no?

There's definitely a big risk with trading Drouin.  The other thing would be the Tyler Seguin effect.  Tyler Seguin has said many times when he was traded to Dallas it was like a "wake up call."  Like "you'd better straighten out kid or else."   Maybe one more trade would finally get Drouin to put in maximum effort every game & if he did that we'd definitely be missing him.  With his skill set he could be a dominant, game-breaking talent, game in, game out. 

That said, you dont get quality for nothing (unless you get very lucky) so to bring back a top 2-3 left handed dman we're going to need to give up a guy like Drouin or Shaw or someone else no one really wnats to lose. 

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Douin: There when things are easy but disappears when the going gets tough. His attitude sucks.

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18 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Douin: There when things are easy but disappears when the going gets tough. His attitude sucks.

Well. Maybe.

However, your attitude can change. You can become more positive. You can put in more work. There's nothing out there written in stone saying, "So and so 24 years old will forever be the same person and hockey player." I'm optimistic Drouin will improve this season! :D

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2 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Well. Maybe.

However, your attitude can change. You can become more positive. You can put in more work. There's nothing out there written in stone saying, "So and so 24 years old will forever be the same person and hockey player." I'm optimistic Drouin will improve this season! :D

Yeah. I feel like we're going to find out.  Despite nearly everyone calling for Drouin to be traded, I dont think MB will give up on him (especially since our need is a puck moving LHD and we traded one to get Drouin!)   I think much more likely we move Shaw or Byron or even one of our RD (I think Weber and Brook are safe, any one of the others may end up going). 

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26 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah. I feel like we're going to find out.  Despite nearly everyone calling for Drouin to be traded, I dont think MB will give up on him (especially since our need is a puck moving LHD and we traded one to get Drouin!)   I think much more likely we move Shaw or Byron or even one of our RD (I think Weber and Brook are safe, any one of the others may end up going). 

for me this is his last year to show what he can do. He's capable of being an elite player if he puts in the effort

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23 minutes ago, habsisme said:

for me this is his last year to show what he can do. He's capable of being an elite player if he puts in the effort

What do you consider elite?

I don't think Drouin is going to be a 100 point player, but I do think he has the capacity to develop into a responsible 60-70 point guy on a good contract.

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7 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What do you consider elite?

I don't think Drouin is going to be a 100 point player, but I do think he has the capacity to develop into a responsible 60-70 point guy on a good contract.

Personally i think he has the skills to break 80points. I dont know if he ever will.   50-60 is probably expected at this point but to find the consistency to score on a point per game basis? I am not sure he'll ever get there (even though I feel like he should be able to).

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13 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What do you consider elite?

I don't think Drouin is going to be a 100 point player, but I do think he has the capacity to develop into a responsible 60-70 point guy on a good contract.

I think if he really puts the effort in, I can see him being a ppg+ player (80-90 points). He's capable 

Its a sad criticism of him that I think everyone here thinks he is are most skilled player and yet many are ready to trade him (including me) because especially in comparison to the rest of this team, he seems to lack the effort 

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11 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Personally i think he has the skills to break 80points. I dont know if he ever will.   50-60 is probably expected at this point but to find the consistency to score on a point per game basis? I am not sure he'll ever get there (even though I feel like he should be able to).

That draft year, 4 of the top 6 were C's, Drouin the only winger.   Seth Jones is the other top 6 on D.

McKinnon ... 99 pts in 82 games

Barkov 96 in 82

Lindholm 78 in 81

Horvat at 9th overall, 61 in 82

Domi at 12th overall 72 in 82

Drouin this past year?  53 in 81

Goin by his draft class he's about 20pts off the pace he should be given he's a top 3 choice that year ... so by now he should be close to a PPG guy like McKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm and Domi.

 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/player/gamelog/_/id/3041971/jonathan-drouin

There's no excusing a player of his skills/talent to get 3 points in March/April

if he had chipped in 12-15 pts (the pace he was on prior to March 1st we might have made the playoffs.

Edited by HabsAlways
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51 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

That draft year, 4 of the top 6 were C's, Drouin the only winger.   Seth Jones is the other top 6 on D.

McKinnon ... 99 pts in 82 games

Barkov 96 in 82

Lindholm 78 in 81

Horvat at 9th overall, 61 in 82

Domi at 12th overall 72 in 82

Drouin this past year?  53 in 81

Goin by his draft class he's about 20pts off the pace he should be given he's a top 3 choice that year ... so by now he should be close to a PPG guy like McKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm and Domi.

 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/player/gamelog/_/id/3041971/jonathan-drouin

There's no excusing a player of his skills/talent to get 3 points in March/April

if he had chipped in 12-15 pts (the pace he was on prior to March 1st we might have made the playoffs.

I don't a whole lot of value in your comparison against the numbers put up by other specific people in his draft year. I mean, I could just as easily say Jonathan Drouin has scored more NHL points and played more minutes than the other 20+ players drafted in the first round of 2013... and now he looks like a great draft pick. Sam Bennett, taken fourth overall in 2014 had 27 points in 71 games last season. Alex Galchenyuk... 41 points in 72 games. Taken third overall in 2012.

I wouldn't get too concerned with comparing him against other players from the 2013 draft class. I'm thinking about what he can achieve for the Montreal Canadiens in 2019-2020. Which, I hope, is 60+ points and an improvement in work ethic and defensive play.

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7 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I don't a whole lot of value in your comparison against the numbers put up by other specific people in his draft year. I mean, I could just as easily say Jonathan Drouin has scored more NHL points and played more minutes than the other 20+ players drafted in the first round of 2013... and now he looks like a great draft pick. Sam Bennett, taken fourth overall in 2014 had 27 points in 71 games last season. Alex Galchenyuk... 41 points in 72 games. Taken third overall in 2012.

I wouldn't get too concerned with comparing him against other players from the 2013 draft class. I'm thinking about what he can achieve for the Montreal Canadiens in 2019-2020. Which, I hope, is 60+ points and an improvement in work ethic and defensive play.

Comparing to others of the same draft year is a fair assesment.    They got drafted the high based on the available talent ... and while it's not a perfect comparison, it's reasonable.

 

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

There's definitely a big risk with trading Drouin.  The other thing would be the Tyler Seguin effect.  Tyler Seguin has said many times when he was traded to Dallas it was like a "wake up call."  Like "you'd better straighten out kid or else."   Maybe one more trade would finally get Drouin to put in maximum effort every game & if he did that we'd definitely be missing him.  With his skill set he could be a dominant, game-breaking talent, game in, game out. 

That said, you dont get quality for nothing (unless you get very lucky) so to bring back a top 2-3 left handed dman we're going to need to give up a guy like Drouin or Shaw or someone else no one really wnats to lose. 

Yeah, except that Drouin has already had one wake-up call and it seems to have done nothing. Yzerman pretty much told him he was being a baby and that the organization wouldn't cave into his demands to be treated like a veteran when he had proven nothing in the NHL. Drouin came here as a guy with question marks about his attitude. So not sure it's the same thing as Seguin... Drouin's been traded already and this is the 2nd organization he's pushing through without signs of maturing.

Again, I think he has value. He's got top-level skill. But hen needs to sort out a lot else about his game.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Yeah, except that Drouin has already had one wake-up call and it seems to have done nothing. Yzerman pretty much told him he was being a baby and that the organization wouldn't cave into his demands to be treated like a veteran when he had proven nothing in the NHL. Drouin came here as a guy with question marks about his attitude. So not sure it's the same thing as Seguin... Drouin's been traded already and this is the 2nd organization he's pushing through without signs of maturing.

Again, I think he has value. He's got top-level skill. But hen needs to sort out a lot else about his game.

Yeah I wasnt comparing the two, simply saying that you never know when a "wake up call" may strike. Maybe never. But there's always a risk that when you trade a very talented player like Drouin that you will finally light a fire under him.  I agree that he's already had that kick in the pants and (so far) it hasnt worked. He also now has one of the supposed "top leaders" in the NHL as his captain so youd think that would help. Not to mention that we had several players (gallagher, domi, shaw, tatar) who basically go all out, every shift of every game... but that hasnt done much. 

Im still holding out slim hope he'll turn it around. I would be ok with trading him for true #1LD help. But I dont think MB is going to do it, not this year anyway. But you never know. If the right deal comes along... 

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Based on the Maatta and Trouba trades, the market suggests that dealing something like Shaw and a 3rd rounder might not actually be an unreasonable price for Gostisbehere. Or alternatively, Juulsen and Columbus' 2nd rounder. Without a doubt, has to be a good time to strike for a top 4 D man.

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14 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Based on the Maatta and Trouba trades, the market suggests that dealing something like Shaw and a 3rd rounder might not actually be an unreasonable price for Gostisbehere. Or alternatively, Juulsen and Columbus' 2nd rounder. Without a doubt, has to be a good time to strike for a top 4 D man.

You’re on to something there.  Jets got a pretty good haul for Trouba.  I’d want to see if McCrimmon will part with Theodore.  Their cap sucks and we have pick 15 to dangle.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Yeah I wasnt comparing the two, simply saying that you never know when a "wake up call" may strike. Maybe never. But there's always a risk that when you trade a very talented player like Drouin that you will finally light a fire under him.  I agree that he's already had that kick in the pants and (so far) it hasnt worked. He also now has one of the supposed "top leaders" in the NHL as his captain so youd think that would help. Not to mention that we had several players (gallagher, domi, shaw, tatar) who basically go all out, every shift of every game... but that hasnt done much. 

Im still holding out slim hope he'll turn it around. I would be ok with trading him for true #1LD help. But I dont think MB is going to do it, not this year anyway. But you never know. If the right deal comes along... 

I don't think he'll ever turn it around. He's an offensively talented player but he lacks that killer instinct to fight through tough checking. He'd rather drop a pass to nowhere than try to carry the puck past a defender. I imagine this is an ingrained trait since he started playing hockey that's now part of his DNA.  

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