Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

2019-20 If i were GM


H_T_L
 Share

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

athanasiou from detroit was the guy being pitched as a target today on 590 what do you guys think

 

If we're going to target somebody then let's target a player that will have an impact rather then another one who sits in the middle of what we already have. If this is the year then make the move if it's available. We need a guy like Hall and or a top notch D-man. I would also add a backup that CJ is not afraid to throw out there to the list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, H_T_L said:

If we're going to target somebody then let's target a player that will have an impact rather then another one who sits in the middle of what we already have. If this is the year then make the move if it's available. We need a guy like Hall and or a top notch D-man. I would also add a backup that CJ is not afraid to throw out there to the list.

Yup......and we're gonna have to pay for him/them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

Yup......and we're gonna have to pay for him/them. 

No doubt,, but if the plan is only to accumulate middle talent and just compete for a playoff spot rather then shoot for the moon if the opportunity is there, then why hold back?

If we think adding those 3 pieces makes us a serious contender, and we have the Cap room to do it, then i'm guessing most fans would be on board, while we still have a window with Price Weber and Petry. If management thinks this window is open now, then take the plunge, otherwise start building for the next one. 

A team like Columbus took their shot last year and they looked scary good for awhile there. It didn't work out but at least they gave it a shot rather then just be a bubble team. I'd put us in the same boat they were in last year. They had the horses (that they knew they were going to lose after the season) and they added the jockey's to ride them. We're not in danger of losing our horses but they'll need to be put to pasture soon,,, so strike while the chance is there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not sold on a Taylor Hall acquisition- the asking price will be high as he will likely want 7 yrs minimum at $7.5m plus and I get that he is only 28. He’s played 9 seasons and only played 70+ games per season in 5 of them, and had 1 career defining year. Giving up a roster player like Lehkonen or Armia is ok plus a 2nd round pick and a lower level prospect but New Jersey should not get much more otherwise it’s a reach imo - Vegas paid a lot for the comparable  Mark Stone last year 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So i think everyone knows i am a fan of Weber's but even I have a hard time believing he will keep up his current pace (18 points in 23 games, top 10 in dman scoring etc).

If we were ever going to think about trading him now would be the time to do so.  A team that just needs that little push would be ideal & I feel like you could get a Suzuki-quality prospect, an under 25 year old roster player & maybe a pick for him from the right team.

Im sure its moot.  I still cant see MB trading Weber - and I do think he'll be useful for another couple of years (especially with the right partner) but i feel like when we're truly ready to contend -when guys like Suzuki, JK, Brook, Poehling, Romanov etc etc are key cogs on the team then Weber will be a little further down the depth chart than he is now.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, maas_art said:

So i think everyone knows i am a fan of Weber's but even I have a hard time believing he will keep up his current pace (18 points in 23 games, top 10 in dman scoring etc).

If we were ever going to think about trading him now would be the time to do so.  A team that just needs that little push would be ideal & I feel like you could get a Suzuki-quality prospect, an under 25 year old roster player & maybe a pick for him from the right team.

Im sure its moot.  I still cant see MB trading Weber - and I do think he'll be useful for another couple of years (especially with the right partner) but i feel like when we're truly ready to contend -when guys like Suzuki, JK, Brook, Poehling, Romanov etc etc are key cogs on the team then Weber will be a little further down the depth chart than he is now.  

You and I are on the same page. I've been talking about how MB needs to make a play one way or the other for a while now: either get the help you need with a top pairing LHD or else build for 2021. If you can't find the LHD and you're not a true contender this year and next, then what's the point of keeping Weber as he gets older?

With that in mind, like you, I've been pointing out that Weber's value is high right now. Fans cling on to players when they're at their best, but the old adage of sell high buy low holds true. MB did well to trade Shaw this off-season despite the fact he had a great year last year. He had been very good under Julien, but he's had concussions and he was always one hit away from having his career ended. It was a good move to trade him, and even though we didn't use the money saved to replace him, you could also argue the trade freed up a spot for Suzuki to make the team. So likewise, the time to trade Weber may be now.

So now you look at who might be interested... Buffalo has under-performed and is tight against the cap. Philadelphia is a very intriguing potential trading partner. We know they like players who play like Weber. We know they have veteran forwards who maybe need to win now. And Dans Les Coulisses just did a story on how Gostisbehere was a healthy scratch and is maybe on the outs with the coaching staff there, after having been in trade rumors already all summer. Would Crosby convince Pittsburgh to take a shot with his former Team Canada teammate? Winnipeg is desperate for any type of NHL defenceman. Colorado is pretty talented but young and maybe Weber would be a good fit there. And Edmonton is another team that is off to a good start but probably needs to improve their D to be considered a contender.

So a few examples of trades I might pitch:

- Weber and Reilly to Philadelphia for Gostisbehere, Braun, and Farabee. We take Braun as a contract dump for Reilly in order to make the cap hits balance out. Braun is a UFA after this season. Reilly gives them a fill-in on the left side to compensate for losing Ghost. And in exchange for the salary dump and for giving up the better D man in Weber in exchange for the slumping Gostisbehere, we get young left winger Farabee in return.

- Weber to Colorado for their recent 1st round LHD Bowen Byram, young LW Vladislav Kamenev, and a salary dump in Ian Cole, who has this year and next left at just over 4M. 

- Weber to Edmonton for D prospect Evan Bouchard, a 1st round pick, and salary dumps Sam Gagner (1 year left at just over 3M) and Kris Russell (2 years left at about 4M)

In all of these deals, we get a younger D man, we get another asset, and we also use our ability to take on cap hits for this year and next as a trade asset. I think these types of deals help to set us up for being better in 2 years and 5 years and 8 years then we would be if we retained Weber. And if we aren't going to win this year or next anyways, then isn't that the a successful trade?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/24/2019 at 8:04 PM, BigTed3 said:

You and I are on the same page. I've been talking about how MB needs to make a play one way or the other for a while now: either get the help you need with a top pairing LHD or else build for 2021. If you can't find the LHD and you're not a true contender this year and next, then what's the point of keeping Weber as he gets older?

With that in mind, like you, I've been pointing out that Weber's value is high right now. Fans cling on to players when they're at their best, but the old adage of sell high buy low holds true. MB did well to trade Shaw this off-season despite the fact he had a great year last year. He had been very good under Julien, but he's had concussions and he was always one hit away from having his career ended. It was a good move to trade him, and even though we didn't use the money saved to replace him, you could also argue the trade freed up a spot for Suzuki to make the team. So likewise, the time to trade Weber may be now.

So now you look at who might be interested... Buffalo has under-performed and is tight against the cap. Philadelphia is a very intriguing potential trading partner. We know they like players who play like Weber. We know they have veteran forwards who maybe need to win now. And Dans Les Coulisses just did a story on how Gostisbehere was a healthy scratch and is maybe on the outs with the coaching staff there, after having been in trade rumors already all summer. Would Crosby convince Pittsburgh to take a shot with his former Team Canada teammate? Winnipeg is desperate for any type of NHL defenceman. Colorado is pretty talented but young and maybe Weber would be a good fit there. And Edmonton is another team that is off to a good start but probably needs to improve their D to be considered a contender.

So a few examples of trades I might pitch:

- Weber and Reilly to Philadelphia for Gostisbehere, Braun, and Farabee. We take Braun as a contract dump for Reilly in order to make the cap hits balance out. Braun is a UFA after this season. Reilly gives them a fill-in on the left side to compensate for losing Ghost. And in exchange for the salary dump and for giving up the better D man in Weber in exchange for the slumping Gostisbehere, we get young left winger Farabee in return.

- Weber to Colorado for their recent 1st round LHD Bowen Byram, young LW Vladislav Kamenev, and a salary dump in Ian Cole, who has this year and next left at just over 4M. 

- Weber to Edmonton for D prospect Evan Bouchard, a 1st round pick, and salary dumps Sam Gagner (1 year left at just over 3M) and Kris Russell (2 years left at about 4M)

In all of these deals, we get a younger D man, we get another asset, and we also use our ability to take on cap hits for this year and next as a trade asset. I think these types of deals help to set us up for being better in 2 years and 5 years and 8 years then we would be if we retained Weber. And if we aren't going to win this year or next anyways, then isn't that the a successful trade?

Only makes sense if you are prepare to trade Price and Petry as well. Would also need to replace Julien as well, he cannot work with all those young players. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, tony5775 said:

Only makes sense if you are prepare to trade Price and Petry as well. Would also need to replace Julien as well, he cannot work with all those young players. 

I don't think trading Price and Petry is out of the realm of possibilities either. You would absolutely suffer in the short term losing those three guys, but I'll ask this: is it better to be an average team for the next two years and then have Petry, Gallagher, Danault, and Tatar hit UFA status and lose an additional guy to the expansion draft and have Price and Weber be in their mid-and-soon-to-be-late 30's? Or is it worth sacrificing those 3 guys now, get a couple of drafts picks that are in the lottery, and acquire younger players that you add to your new core to give you a legit shot at being a contender in 3-4 years?

I'll reiterate, the Habs are probably only 2-3 players away right now from being a contender. But they need a top-pairing LHD and they need a scoring winger and they need a back-up goalie. And the thing is that they've needed those holes filled for a few years and MB hasn't been able to find the guys to get it done. So maybe those guys aren't available or maybe the asking price is too high to make it worth it, but regardless, it hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's going to. I just don't think status quo is acceptable and I don't think adding a Vlasic and handicapping your cap limit for the next half decade is a smart move either. So why not deal from your position of strength and try to get a younger guy like Byram or Bouchard or so on? At least it's a plan of some sort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't think trading Price and Petry is out of the realm of possibilities either. You would absolutely suffer in the short term losing those three guys, but I'll ask this: is it better to be an average team for the next two years and then have Petry, Gallagher, Danault, and Tatar hit UFA status and lose an additional guy to the expansion draft and have Price and Weber be in their mid-and-soon-to-be-late 30's? Or is it worth sacrificing those 3 guys now, get a couple of drafts picks that are in the lottery, and acquire younger players that you add to your new core to give you a legit shot at being a contender in 3-4 years?

I'll reiterate, the Habs are probably only 2-3 players away right now from being a contender. But they need a top-pairing LHD and they need a scoring winger and they need a back-up goalie. And the thing is that they've needed those holes filled for a few years and MB hasn't been able to find the guys to get it done. So maybe those guys aren't available or maybe the asking price is too high to make it worth it, but regardless, it hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's going to. I just don't think status quo is acceptable and I don't think adding a Vlasic and handicapping your cap limit for the next half decade is a smart move either. So why not deal from your position of strength and try to get a younger guy like Byram or Bouchard or so on? At least it's a plan of some sort.

these guys are not getting it done. add gallagher to that list too. this team is so content to hang around with old familiar faces that have had scraps of success. if there are contending teams out there willing to give us solid packages on any of our "name" players Im all in, and I think thats the midset it is time to start adopting. this isnt working. we have a lack in literally every area. look how happy we are with the return for patches. we now have 2 functioning pieces on the roster, one with untapped upside and potentially even another in the future with that norlinder kid, who by the way is having a very impressive season where hes at. 

do that with weber, petry, price, gallagher, go right ahead. if those 4 names turn into 8 or 9 names im happy. yes nothing is guaranteed, yes we likely suffer short term, but are we not suffering now? are we not essentially guaranteed not winning now anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

With NJ's sell-off ongoing, lots of rumors that PK Subban is being aggressively shopped. Let's forget Bergevin's personal vendetta against Subban and let's say Bergevin gets fired and you get to be the GM tomorrow. Let's say you have the following deals on the table:

1. The Avalanche offer you their 1st round pick and Bowen Byram for Jeff Petry.

2. The Devils offer you PK Subban and are willing to retain 3.5M on his 9M salary (with two years left on his deal after this one) in exchange for a 3rd round pick.

 

So basically, let's say the Petry and Subban contracts are cost-neutral, albeit with Subban having one extra year left. You can swap in Subban for Petry and you give up a 3rd rounder to acquire a 1st and Byram. Let's say the two deals only happen if you do both. Do you take these trades? Or do you keep Petry instead?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

With NJ's sell-off ongoing, lots of rumors that PK Subban is being aggressively shopped. Let's forget Bergevin's personal vendetta against Subban and let's say Bergevin gets fired and you get to be the GM tomorrow. Let's say you have the following deals on the table:

1. The Avalanche offer you their 1st round pick and Bowen Byram for Jeff Petry.

2. The Devils offer you PK Subban and are willing to retain 3.5M on his 9M salary (with two years left on his deal after this one) in exchange for a 3rd round pick.

 

So basically, let's say the Petry and Subban contracts are cost-neutral, albeit with Subban having one extra year left. You can swap in Subban for Petry and you give up a 3rd rounder to acquire a 1st and Byram. Let's say the two deals only happen if you do both. Do you take these trades? Or do you keep Petry instead?

not sure his GF would want to come here?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

not sure his GF would want to come here?

 

 

12 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

I would stay away from Subban. No desire for his return

 

And despite the fact that I was a Subban fan, I don't have much desire for him to come back. I think at this point he's overpaid for what he brings and there's some health risk there. BUT

- I do think there's a chance he resuscitates his career and I think the odds of that happening are higher in Montreal.

- He's one of the few guys you might be able to acquire who could immediately fill a void left by Jeff Petry

- You wouldn't have to give up much to make it happen

- I wouldn't do it for 9M a year, but if NJ was willing to retain salary, I would take the drop-off to go from Petry to Subban if it meant bringing in a 1st rounder and a top prospect like Byram.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

With NJ's sell-off ongoing, lots of rumors that PK Subban is being aggressively shopped. Let's forget Bergevin's personal vendetta against Subban and let's say Bergevin gets fired and you get to be the GM tomorrow. Let's say you have the following deals on the table:

1. The Avalanche offer you their 1st round pick and Bowen Byram for Jeff Petry.

2. The Devils offer you PK Subban and are willing to retain 3.5M on his 9M salary (with two years left on his deal after this one) in exchange for a 3rd round pick.

 

So basically, let's say the Petry and Subban contracts are cost-neutral, albeit with Subban having one extra year left. You can swap in Subban for Petry and you give up a 3rd rounder to acquire a 1st and Byram. Let's say the two deals only happen if you do both. Do you take these trades? Or do you keep Petry instead?

I'll take door #1. Pass on Door #2,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

With NJ's sell-off ongoing, lots of rumors that PK Subban is being aggressively shopped. Let's forget Bergevin's personal vendetta against Subban and let's say Bergevin gets fired and you get to be the GM tomorrow. Let's say you have the following deals on the table:

1. The Avalanche offer you their 1st round pick and Bowen Byram for Jeff Petry.

2. The Devils offer you PK Subban and are willing to retain 3.5M on his 9M salary (with two years left on his deal after this one) in exchange for a 3rd round pick.

 

So basically, let's say the Petry and Subban contracts are cost-neutral, albeit with Subban having one extra year left. You can swap in Subban for Petry and you give up a 3rd rounder to acquire a 1st and Byram. Let's say the two deals only happen if you do both. Do you take these trades? Or do you keep Petry instead?

Hab fans love a recovering cast-off - Kovalov  Radulov Now Kovalchuk - so there would be support for Subban if he performs with energy we’re almost the last stop/mile - if you can’t rejuvenate here, it’s career is over!

Problem is too much term with Subban, too many side antics On the ice plus off ice with Vonn, and I don’t think there is respect amongst his teammates for his ego - on that reasoning - he gets kicked to the curb / refuse part  2 of the deal  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I'll take door #1. Pass on Door #2,

Same here. I don't want PK back at this point, even though I was a huge fan. I'd be a little concerned about the locker room given the history with Gallagher and now Weber running the show, I know they're all pros but they're also human beings. No need for additional drama in Montreal, and it would be a circus no doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm also not keen on bringing back Subban, but like I said, it might permit you to trade Petry for a nice return and Subban is one of the few RHD available who has the potential to replace Petry and come at a cheap price. Curious to know what other options people foresee to replace Petry or Weber if they are traded...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm also not keen on bringing back Subban, but like I said, it might permit you to trade Petry for a nice return and Subban is one of the few RHD available who has the potential to replace Petry and come at a cheap price. Curious to know what other options people foresee to replace Petry or Weber if they are traded...

No one seems to have a plan for that other than picks and prospects which they believe will make us contenders in 3-5 years we have discussed it at nausium.  I don't see how that will make us better down the road by giving up 2 of our best players with no proven players coming back

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • H_T_L locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...