H_T_L

2019-20 State Of The Habs

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On 9/4/2020 at 1:47 PM, HabsAlways said:

This can't be stressed enough.    You don't build a team through trades or UFA signings so much anymore.    Those are used to compliment what you've drafted and put you over the top into contention.      You need the young studs on ELC/Cheap RFAs to be top performers otherwise you simply won't fill out a roster with top talent given the cap.

St. Louis last year had a lot of talent that had been through trades. This year look at Dallas , most of their talent has been through trades. I agree drafting is important but if done properly and the right timing trades can definitely make the difference. Also every draft year is different and the timing of where you draft on any given year can be a crap shoot. 

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21 minutes ago, maas_art said:

So with Joel Edmundson signed, our d-corps looks like this:

Weber, Petry, Chairot, Edmundson, Kulak, Romanov, Juulsen, Fleury, Brook, Alzner

Mete is RFA (should be re-signed), Ouellet is RFA (may not be resigned,or, resigned for Laval), Folin is UFA (wont -hopefully - be resigned).

Reading between the lines and taking what MB has said at face value, our pairs should look like this:

 

Chairot - Weber
Edmundson - Petry
Romanov - Juulsen/Fleury

That means Mete or Kulak is either gone, or press-boxed/waived.   Brook will almost certainly be sent to Laval for more development. If Juulsen can stay healthy then I think Fleury goes down again too.  Alzner may finally be bought out, or just buried, but either way he wont be on this roster. 

Its not the worst we've seen during MB's tenure - may actually be one of his best - but is it good enough?  I think our RD is fine (a little long in the tooth of course but thats what we've got) but LD is still a huge question mark.  Chairot and Edmundon are both (at best) #4 dmen. So having one play next to Petry is fine but the other one should be on the bottom pair.   We need to hope like heck that Romanov adapts immediately because if he can take the role of top pairing LD then the whole d corps is suddenly worlds better.    Its a big IF though and you're putting it on the shoulders of a 20 year old. 

 

  It's still a question mark on whether Romanov makes the jump effectively to the NHL level ...for reasons of experiment perhaps Weber should take him on the left side to wean him in like he did with Mete ...then it would be Petry / Edmundson and Chiarot / Fleury( Juulsen)....Im not so sure having Romanov and Fleury ( or Juulsen) isn't asking for a lot of rookie mistakes  

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5 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  It's still a question mark on whether Romanov makes the jump effectively to the NHL level ...for reasons of experiment perhaps Weber should take him on the left side to wean him in like he did with Mete ...then it would be Petry / Edmundson and Chiarot / Fleury( Juulsen)....Im not so sure having Romanov and Fleury ( or Juulsen) isn't asking for a lot of rookie mistakes  

And thats the issue. One way or another we're going to have someone playing in a situation that isnt ideal.   Edmundson-Petry  and Chariot-Juulsen as your 2nd and 3rd pairings is totally fine - really good actually - but can Romanov take on top pairing minutes?   As you said, Mete did it, but I always feel like Weber is far less effective when he's sheltering someone.  

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

And thats the issue. One way or another we're going to have someone playing in a situation that isnt ideal.   Edmundson-Petry  and Chariot-Juulsen as your 2nd and 3rd pairings is totally fine - really good actually - but can Romanov take on top pairing minutes?   As you said, Mete did it, but I always feel like Weber is far less effective when he's sheltering someone.  

 

True...the more I think about it the more I see a more mature and serviceable Mete staying around for a bridge of say $1.2 mill as an RFA for  a couple of years  on a two-way ...certainly tradeable but somewhat of a stop-gap go to  in case Romanov stutter steps ...it still doesn't address the need for a decent  RHD but at least he's played the position with Ouellet ...not an optimum but doable 

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1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

True...the more I think about it the more I see a more mature and serviceable Mete staying around for a bridge of say $1.2 mill as an RFA for  a couple of years  on a two-way ...certainly tradeable but somewhat of a stop-gap go to  in case Romanov stutter steps ...it still doesn't address the need for a decent  RHD but at least he's played the position with Ouellet ...not an optimum but doable 

I think we're ok at RHD  - for now.  Weber and Petry look like they have a couple of years left and I still have hopes for Brook.  Juulsen if he gets healthy and  can overcome the 2 years of progression missed, maybe can be a #4-6 guy.  Fleury should be a #5-6.    So yeah, we're definitely missing top end RHD that is under 30 but that can be addressed through drafting and trades - but should start now, if the team is thinking proactively. 

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32 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I think we're ok at RHD  - for now.  Weber and Petry look like they have a couple of years left and I still have hopes for Brook.  Juulsen if he gets healthy and  can overcome the 2 years of progression missed, maybe can be a #4-6 guy.  Fleury should be a #5-6.    So yeah, we're definitely missing top end RHD that is under 30 but that can be addressed through drafting and trades - but should start now, if the team is thinking proactively. 

I don’t disagree with this observation- I suspect one of our 2nd round picks at 47,48,or 56 will take a RHD - Helge Grans, William Villeneuve or Topi Niemela should be available and offer some potential upside. RHD Alex Cotton - a late bloomer I hope we take him in the 4th round 

I am not as sour as everyone else here is on Edmundson and will watch him more carefully before just taking the easy route and dumping all over the decision 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I think we're ok at RHD  - for now.  Weber and Petry look like they have a couple of years left and I still have hopes for Brook.  Juulsen if he gets healthy and  can overcome the 2 years of progression missed, maybe can be a #4-6 guy.  Fleury should be a #5-6.    So yeah, we're definitely missing top end RHD that is under 30 but that can be addressed through drafting and trades - but should start now, if the team is thinking proactively. 

Mostly spot on. Plenty of time, as long as we put an emphasis on it now. Although personally, I have higher hopes for Fleury than I do Juulsen. Not even factoring in Juulsen’s injuries, Fleury looked better in the small sample that we got of him than Juulsen ever has, IMO anyways. But especially if you do factor in his injuries. Even if physically he recovers, taking pucks to the face like he did, what does that do to a guys psyche? 

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From Gord Miller: every single Cup winner from 2009 on has had a top 5 draft pick of their own on their roster. The last team to win without a top 5 pick of their own was Detroit, who had 12 of their own draft picks on the roster and one undrafted player they signed. So the draft clearly matters, and having top picks clearly matters the most. This is why mid-round 1st's don't mean as much and why you need to have elite talent you grabbed through the draft.

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Not surprising, but according to Raphael Doucet, Marc Bergevin is attempting to trade Charles Hudon.

It seems like its basically an attempt to get Hudon a place in the NHL (so, more a trade for the player than the team) so I assume the return will be pretty minimal (AHLer, or maybe a 6th/7th round pick).

Speculation is that if he isnt traded, MB will qualify him & Hudon may well reject it so he can go to Europe. If MB qualifies him & he accepts he will likely go back to the AHL (or maybe a team will claim him off of waivers).

He is arbitration elgible though so its possible takes the team to arbitration & they reject the ruling (making him an UFA).   More than likely MB will find someone to take him for a very late pick.  It was only a couple of years ago Hudon had 30 points in 70 games as a rookie. 

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On 9/29/2020 at 9:43 AM, BigTed3 said:

From Gord Miller: every single Cup winner from 2009 on has had a top 5 draft pick of their own on their roster. The last team to win without a top 5 pick of their own was Detroit, who had 12 of their own draft picks on the roster and one undrafted player they signed. So the draft clearly matters, and having top picks clearly matters the most. This is why mid-round 1st's don't mean as much and why you need to have elite talent you grabbed through the draft.

I mean, there's also a lot of Cup losers who have a top-five pick (or multiple top-five picks) on their roster. I think most teams probably have a top-five pick on their roster no? Price for us... That's not gonna win us a Cup, though. Too bad Galchenyuk ended up being a bust for third overall.

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20 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I mean, there's also a lot of Cup losers who have a top-five pick (or multiple top-five picks) on their roster. I think most teams probably have a top-five pick on their roster no? Price for us... That's not gonna win us a Cup, though. Too bad Galchenyuk ended up being a bust for third overall.

Nugent Hopkins (1st ova),  McDavid (1st ova) Draisaitl (3rd ova), Puljujarvi (4ova), Nurse (7th) :rolleyes:  I know, Edmonton is a terrible example of... basically anything related to running a hockey team.  :4224:

But i think you have to look at  top 10 picks honestly.  I mean every year the top 2-3 guys are like "NHL ready" which is why they are such high picks, but usually from 4-10 or even higher, teams will have completely different ideas of who they would pick.  

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From time to time it would help if you also pick a "Braden Point"-player in the 3rd round.

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2 hours ago, Shutoutfan said:

From time to time it would help if you also pick a "Braden Point"-player in the 3rd round.

Agree - FYI Seth Jarvis who may be available at pick 16 for us, is frequently compared to Braden Point. I keep telling everyone that this years draft is described as a deep and talented draft to the end of the 2nd round where we have 4 picks. The odds are favourable for us despite our recent track records. With all the doubt about next years season, imo don’t trade this years picks. 

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21 minutes ago, claremont said:

With all the doubt about next years season, imo don’t trade this years picks. 

I think it depends on the return. If you're getting back a young impact player, it still may be worth it. If the return is a 28 year old middle six player then yes, I completely agree.   The only thing we should be trading (ie moving assets ) for right now is 1st line/1st pairing level talent.   We've got a whole team of 2nd liners, no real need to move assets to get more of them. 

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Speaking of first rounders. Sergachev with a Cup win already. 22 years old. Not saying this to give Drouin a hard time, but... Dang, it hurts watching a young defender like that flourish at such a young age.

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36 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Speaking of first rounders. Sergachev with a Cup win already. 22 years old. Not saying this to give Drouin a hard time, but... Dang, it hurts watching a young defender like that flourish at such a young age.

Yeah i mean its not Drouins fault, it was just a dumb trade.   Im not as down on drouin as many others are but I fully admit it was the wrong move. It would be like losing gallagher to UFA and then trading Caufield for a defensman.    We'd have no top end right wings and we would have moved our only legit top end RW prospect.

Im not convinced Sergachev would have flourished here (we probably would be playing him in the minors in favour of Ouellete) but it sure would be nice to have him as an option right now. 

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Posted (edited)

I just want to point out to everyone who's on Bergy about our top 4, the following is a list of the top 6 in TB on the ice for the cup victory:

Victor Hedman-TOI: 25 mins

Ryan McDonagh-TOI: 22:34 mins

Mikhail Sergachev-TOI:14:16 mins

Zach Bogosian-TOI: 19:09 mins

Erik Cernak-TOI: 19:07 mins

Kevin Shattenkirk-TOI: 17:07 mins

of the 6 only 3 of those are really offensively productive puck movers.  The only one of those 6 d on TB who had better regular season numbers than Weber and Petry was Victor Hedman.  Given the fact that their second highest cap hit on the blueline put up a paltry 12 points in 50 games and is signed until 25-26 at 6,750,000 (McDonagh), I dare say our blueline is in far better shape to contend next year than TB. Brisebois is up against it.

Edited by East_Coast_Juggalo_13
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27 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I dare say our blueline is in far better shape to contend next year than TB. Brisebois is up against it.

The thing is though, they won the cup.  In this day and age, thats really all you can hope for 1 cup win - if you can manage 2 or 3 like the pens with crosby, great, but its very very unlikely.  I think most GMs would do basically anything - including destroying the future of their team - for that 1 elusive cup win.   

In TB's case Hedman is a stud - arguably the best DMan in the game right now but he's a 2nd overall pick. You dont get guys like that very often. Sergachev is a good young dman.  McDonaugh is absolutely overpaid but a solid positional dman.   The rest are pretty much spare parts honestly. 


Remember though, they do have Cal Foote in their system & he's projecting as a #2-4 dman.   

You can do a lot when you have a guy like Hedman on the ice for 1/ 2 the game though. 

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The Canadiens have submitted qualifying offers to forwards Max Domi and Charles Hudon, and defencemen Noah Juulsen, Victor Mete and Xavier Ouellet.

Three restricted free agents, forwards Aaron Luchuk, Andrew Sturtz and Antoine Waked, were not tendered offers.

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22 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

The Canadiens have submitted qualifying offers to forwards Max Domi and Charles Hudon, and defencemen Noah Juulsen, Victor Mete and Xavier Ouellet.

Three restricted free agents, forwards Aaron Luchuk, Andrew Sturtz and Antoine Waked, were not tendered offers.

Mete seems to be the odd man out at LD. I hope Bergevin considers packaging him with a 2nd round pick and even more (Weal) to teams short on cap room and LD depth to acquire another first round pick (like Calgary -19, Washington -24, Dallas -30 who are not short on cap room but could use a 5-6 dman while they make other free agent acquisitions) 

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10 hours ago, H_T_L said:

The Canadiens have submitted qualifying offers to forwards Max Domi and Charles Hudon, and defencemen Noah Juulsen, Victor Mete and Xavier Ouellet.

Three restricted free agents, forwards Aaron Luchuk, Andrew Sturtz and Antoine Waked, were not tendered offers.

im trying really hard to hold back my excitement..............

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3 hours ago, HARBORSPORT said:

im trying really hard to hold back my excitement..............

:4224:

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MB press conference:

- Says he has nothing imminent in terms of a trade

- Says many teams are looking to move money out. Says there are some good players available this way but that they aren't difference-makers and that they tie up cap space going forward, which is a problem when he has to re-sign his own players and the cap isn't expected to go up. Says no one really wants to take on extra contracts right now because of this.

- Not interested in trading his 1st rounder for a short-term solution. Would only trade for a player who can help long-term. As a result, says chances are good Habs will draft at 16 tomorrow.

- When asked if he feels he can improve club significantly enough to be a solid playoff team.... MB says he feels he has done this already with Allen and Edmundson.

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- MB: "very comfortable with our defence... we have our Big 3 with Weber, Petry, and Chiarot and now we've added Edmundson to the mix, so I feel like we're set. Of course if there's an opportunity to make it better we will consider it but I don't feel like we have to." (faceplam. So Bergevin really thinks he's done enough here and he's viewing that without considering Romanov. He really thinks Edmundson is a key here.)

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Arpon Basu: "Why is it that there's always a lot of talk about upgrading and then it seems like things kind of fall through and you just aren't able to make a big acquisition."

MB: "Flat cap."

Basu: "But that only explains this year."

MB: "Not really, it also explains coming years."

 

Not sure I understand that...

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