H_T_L

2019-20 State Of The Habs

2,630 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Bergevin better do something with that Cap space, otherwise we'll be on the outside looking in yet again.

Devils added Hughes, Subban, Simmonds.

Flyers added Hayes, Niskanen, Hartman.

Rangers added Panarin, Kakko, Trouba.

Panthers added Bobrovsky, Connolly, Stralman.

Not an exhaustive list and even if some teams like CLB got weaker, it seems that virtually every team that finished below us in the standings got stronger. Adding Kinkaid and trading Shaw for picks doesn't make us a playoff team IMO.

Agreed at this point we need to upgrade our LHD or get a top 6 forward we can't rely on Lehks to fill a top 6 roll all season 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Agreed at this point we need to upgrade our LHD or get a top 6 forward we can't rely on Lehks to fill a top 6 roll all season 

I think we need to add both a LHD and another forward if we want to be competitive, I'd try to sign Ferland or Dzingel and add a LHD via trade. This would give us something like...

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Drouin-Domi-Poehling
Ferland/Dzingel-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Lehkonen-Thompson-Byron/Weal

LHD-Weber
Mete-Petry
Kulak/Reilly-Juulsen/Folin

Price/Kinkaid

 

Which isn't too shabby I think. Otherwise we'd just be another bubble team, having to rely on Carey to take us to the playoffs.

Edited by ChiLla
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9 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Bergevin better do something with that Cap space, otherwise we'll be on the outside looking in yet again.

Devils added Hughes, Subban, Simmonds.

Flyers added Hayes, Niskanen, Hartman.

Rangers added Panarin, Kakko, Trouba.

Panthers added Bobrovsky, Connolly, Stralman.

Not an exhaustive list and even if some teams like CLB got weaker, it seems that virtually every team that finished below us in the standings got stronger. Adding Kinkaid and trading Shaw for picks doesn't make us a playoff team IMO.

He did do something. He signed Phil Varone! I think MB is reading the free agent list upside down. 

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13 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

He did do something. He signed Phil Varone! I think MB is reading the free agent list upside down. 

Right, MB is paniced now that he traded Dlo and missed out on Aho. So he signs Varone and is probably talking with Gardner's camp about an 8 Mil x 7 year contract. I hope the hell not! hopefully he tries landing Dzingle and a LHD. We need something more than Varone and Kinkade.

Edited by campabee82
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Varone Is just a depth move. I don't know why people get upset over depth signings. You can have up to 50 contracts, I believe we are at 41. It's even a two-way contract! 

The only thing he might regret is trading Shaw. I'm 50/50 on that move but everyone here is right to talk abut injuries etc so I definitely don't hate it. 

Trading DLO was a steal! And i still love that we went after Aho

We need to either trade for an LD (if available) or sign Gardiner to a reasonable deal. I'm willing to go 6 million x 7 years

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4 hours ago, ChiLla said:

I think we need to add both a LHD and another forward if we want to be competitive, I'd try to sign Ferland or Dzingel and add a LHD via trade. This would give us something like...

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Drouin-Domi-Poehling
Ferland/Dzingel-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Lehkonen-Thompson-Byron/Weal

LHD-Weber
Mete-Petry
Kulak/Reilly-Juulsen/Folin

Price/Kinkaid

 

Which isn't too shabby I think. Otherwise we'd just be another bubble team, having to rely on Carey to take us to the playoffs.

I like your thought process but would tweak the lines as follows

Tatar-Domi-Gallagher
Ferland/Dzingel-Kotkaniemi-Suzuki
Lehkonen-Poehling-Armia
Byron-Danault-Weal

Thompson, Evans

Drouin + for LHD

LHD-Weber
Mete-Petry
Kulak-Juulsen
Folin


Price/Kinkaid

Reilly to the Rocket to take top pairing minutes

I think that you have to start KK on the second line its the only way he will get better we already know how he does on the third line lets get him further up the lineup where he has wingers that can bury the puck.

I have Poehling on the third line as I really think that Byron, Danault and Weal would be a handful all are fast and defensively responsible 

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4 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Varone Is just a depth move. I don't know why people get upset over depth signings. You can have up to 50 contracts, I believe we are at 41. It's even a two-way contract! 

The only thing he might regret is trading Shaw. I'm 50/50 on that move but everyone here is right to talk abut injuries etc so I definitely don't hate it. 

Trading DLO was a steal! And i still love that we went after Aho

We need to either trade for an LD (if available) or sign Gardiner to a reasonable deal. I'm willing to go 6 million x 7 years

I don't mind trading for depth but at 41 contracts on the books I think we have enough we need a game breaker or LHD not more depth. 

I like all of the other moves by MB this off season this one is just the head scratcher.

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1 minute ago, campabee82 said:

I don't mind trading for depth but at 41 contracts on the books I think we have enough we need a game breaker or LHD not more depth. 

I like all of the other moves by MB this off season this one is just the head scratcher.

we have to fill out our Laval team too (thats part of the 50)

what is he going to do for LHD? He has 2 options, sign Gardiner or trade. What if no reasonable trade is available? What Gardiner wants 8-9 million a year? In the meantime he's allowed to fill out his roster

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14 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Varone Is just a depth move. I don't know why people get upset over depth signings.

It happens every year.  People see teams sign the top UFA and they get all upset we sign a depth guy.  The reality is that many of those guys either werent interested in coming to montreal or they really werent a fit.  Its easy to get caught up in it but honestly there were really only a few of UFA guys id even have any interest in - and most of them signed for stupid money. 

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

It happens every year.  People see teams sign the top UFA and they get all upset we sign a depth guy.  The reality is that many of those guys either werent interested in coming to montreal or they really werent a fit.  Its easy to get caught up in it but honestly there were really only a few of UFA guys id even have any interest in - and most of them signed for stupid money. 

exactly, I wouldn't have signed any of the player for the money they got. Maybe Lee? But I don't really know him too well but his stats look good. Anyway, he signed with his team so we would have had to pay even more

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Signed another 4th liner. When some ridicule me for saying moves like this would happen, then voila.

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1 minute ago, habby67 said:

Signed another 4th liner. When some ridicule me for saying moves like this would happen, then voila.

So, I think Riley and Varone are just depth Laval signings. I don't think you need to worry about them playing with the parent club.

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I would be reallllllly optimistic if he took advantage of the cap space, aka the pie in the sky.

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24 minutes ago, habsisme said:

we have to fill out our Laval team too (thats part of the 50)

what is he going to do for LHD? He has 2 options, sign Gardiner or trade. What if no reasonable trade is available? What Gardiner wants 8-9 million a year? In the meantime he's allowed to fill out his roster

 

17 minutes ago, maas_art said:

It happens every year.  People see teams sign the top UFA and they get all upset we sign a depth guy.  The reality is that many of those guys either werent interested in coming to montreal or they really werent a fit.  Its easy to get caught up in it but honestly there were really only a few of UFA guys id even have any interest in - and most of them signed for stupid money. 

 

9 minutes ago, habsisme said:

exactly, I wouldn't have signed any of the player for the money they got. Maybe Lee? But I don't really know him too well but his stats look good. Anyway, he signed with his team so we would have had to pay even more

I don't mind depth either, my problem is we had younger depth AHL players already and didn't even qualify them then we go out miss on the FA market, again which is ok with me cause they went for rediculous money, but we Sign a 4th line depth player who is more likely to play with the Habs then the Rocket. MB got him for size and experience on the 4th line after giving up DLO. Which is fine again but we already have Byron, Weal, Thompson, Armia, Lehkonen, Kotkaniemi and Poehling who are scheduled to play in the bottom 6. I think you will see the 4th line of Varone-Thompson-Armia for most of the year. Which could be good as long as we trade for the LHD instead of sending the kids to Laval or benching better players.

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18 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

but we Sign a 4th line depth player who is more likely to play with the Habs then the Rocket. 

Strongly disagree with this.  The only person we've signed this month who will play with the habs is the backup.  Everyone else is laval bound  & we wont see them unless we have a looooot of injuries.     Dlo had already lost his spot & even with Shaw gone we have too many forwards as it is. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Strongly disagree with this.  The only person we've signed this month who will play with the habs is the backup.  Everyone else is laval bound  & we wont see them unless we have a looooot of injuries.     Dlo had already lost his spot & even with Shaw gone we have too many forwards as it is. 

I mostly agree with you in terms of intentions. But that said, we signed guys like Froese, Chaput, Agostino, etc. and acquired the likes of Deslauriers and Flynn and Nesterov and Barberio and we all thought they would be Laval depth players and they all ended up getting decent shots to play here. I don't think the plan is to use Varone and Barber and so on in the NHL, but I also think the leash on the younger players is not long, and if the Habs get the sense Suzuki or Poehling or Evans isn't consistent, history has taught us they're more than willing to over-play veterans rather than let the young guys learn on the job... on the one hand, good to have depth, but on the other you have to know when depth is just depth and not over-reach in terms of what you think they can do. These are good moves so long as the plan is to have them teach the younger guys in Laval.

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3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I mostly agree with you in terms of intentions. But that said, we signed guys like Froese, Chaput, Agostino, etc. and acquired the likes of Deslauriers and Flynn and Nesterov and Barberio and we all thought they would be Laval depth players and they all ended up getting decent shots to play here. I don't think the plan is to use Varone and Barber and so on in the NHL, but I also think the leash on the younger players is not long, and if the Habs get the sense Suzuki or Poehling or Evans isn't consistent, history has taught us they're more than willing to over-play veterans rather than let the young guys learn on the job... on the one hand, good to have depth, but on the other you have to know when depth is just depth and not over-reach in terms of what you think they can do. These are good moves so long as the plan is to have them teach the younger guys in Laval.

As much as our young crowd has a lot of potential I don't mind this because just because someone is projected to be great or tore it up in a lower league doesn't mean they shouldn't still have to earn their space. Because we always want things now especially projected star players doesn't mean we need to rush the players. Let them develop. If any of them end up time in the AHL that doesn't really hurt them sometimes its actually good. No need to rush players then complain later we don't properly develop them.

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43 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I mostly agree with you in terms of intentions. But that said, we signed guys like Froese, Chaput, Agostino, etc. and acquired the likes of Deslauriers and Flynn and Nesterov and Barberio and we all thought they would be Laval depth players and they all ended up getting decent shots to play here. I don't think the plan is to use Varone and Barber and so on in the NHL, but I also think the leash on the younger players is not long, and if the Habs get the sense Suzuki or Poehling or Evans isn't consistent, history has taught us they're more than willing to over-play veterans rather than let the young guys learn on the job... on the one hand, good to have depth, but on the other you have to know when depth is just depth and not over-reach in terms of what you think they can do. These are good moves so long as the plan is to have them teach the younger guys in Laval.

True but when that happened we did not have the roster we do now.

Domi, Drouin, JK, Gallagher, Danault, Tatar, Lehkonen, Poehling (who I think is a lock), Armia, Byron, Weal, Thompson, Peca

And thats not even adding Suzuki (who i think has a 70%+ chance of making the team) and Caufield (who is less likely but still has a shot), plus Evans, McCarron etc.

I just dont see any of these signings today actually suiting up for this team, this roster.   That said - i I fully agree with why you might think otherwise, based on the history of this organization.  It is Bergevin, after all, who is in charge of player movement from the minors to the bigs. 

 

Of course, if we end up moving a forward or two for a LD then i guess my argument is out the window.  But I really dont think these depth signings are too much to worry about.

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Per gaps we should try and get Gusev he is another low risk high reward type that MB loves to take chances on. Then get Gardiner I know he is a liability defensively but playing with Weber he wouldn't have to lead the pairing it may work out. The real problem becomes what if the Canes then turn around and let Aho go then we are in cap hell but we still have options to move guys for picks.

Edited by campabee82
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7 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Per gaps we should try and get Gusev he is another low risk high reward type that MB loves to take chances on. Then get Gardiner I know he is a liability defensively but playing with Weber he wouldn't have to lead the pairing it may work out. The real problem becomes what if the Canes then turn around and let Aho go then we are in cap hell but we still have options to move guys for picks.

I would wait on Gardiner. If MB made him an offer, he knows it. There's no reason for him not to wait. He's heard everyone's offer. 

Even if we wanted to dump salary, we could but better not to do it when were over the cap and everyone knows we need to

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

True but when that happened we did not have the roster we do now.

Domi, Drouin, JK, Gallagher, Danault, Tatar, Lehkonen, Poehling (who I think is a lock), Armia, Byron, Weal, Thompson, Peca

And thats not even adding Suzuki (who i think has a 70%+ chance of making the team) and Caufield (who is less likely but still has a shot), plus Evans, McCarron etc.

I just dont see any of these signings today actually suiting up for this team, this roster.   That said - i I fully agree with why you might think otherwise, based on the history of this organization.  It is Bergevin, after all, who is in charge of player movement from the minors to the bigs. 

 

Of course, if we end up moving a forward or two for a LD then i guess my argument is out the window.  But I really dont think these depth signings are too much to worry about.

I agree with this, it does appear times are changing and he is moving forward with the youth. Even the dee, Schlemko is gone, Alzner is in the AHL, Benn is gone.

Forwards DLO out shaw out. The signings are only to beef up the AHL team. 

I like what Bergervin did, he took a chance albeit small chance to add a really good young player to the young core we already have. We did not need to get an UFA just for the sake of getting an UFA, we have 12 picks next season. We do have a really nice pool of young players already and will be adding to this. We have the cap space now so no worry about locking Domi next season or even working on a more reasonable long term contract during the season.

Would i like to have a really good young dee like Zach Werenski or a really good young forward like AHO, you bet i would. But a 28 old UFA for the next 7 years for 8 9 or 10 million ... Hell no 

IF we are making a run for the playoffs we have the cap to add some rentals later in the season thats fine but not at the cost of any of our tier 1 propects

This team is on track for the first time in a long while...

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17 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

I agree with this, it does appear times are changing and he is moving forward with the youth. Even the dee, Schlemko is gone, Alzner is in the AHL, Benn is gone.

Forwards DLO out shaw out. The signings are only to beef up the AHL team. 

I like what Bergervin did, he took a chance albeit small chance to add a really good young player to the young core we already have. We did not need to get an UFA just for the sake of getting an UFA, we have 12 picks next season. We do have a really nice pool of young players already and will be adding to this. We have the cap space now so no worry about locking Domi next season or even working on a more reasonable long term contract during the season.

Would i like to have a really good young dee like Zach Werenski or a really good young forward like AHO, you bet i would. But a 28 old UFA for the next 7 years for 8 9 or 10 million ... Hell no 

IF we are making a run for the playoffs we have the cap to add some rentals later in the season thats fine but not at the cost of any of our tier 1 propects

This team is on track for the first time in a long while...

I dodnt mean to come acrossed like I was saying just to add someone for the sake of adding someone. I would never want to do that my issue is we have holes that could be filled even with what is still out there for the right term and price of course. We missed the playoffs by 2 points and while I feel like this team has a shot at the playoffs everyone around us last year is improving their clubs while we didn't. My fear is that now we are even further out of the picture at the end of the year. However that being said we did fill our biggest weakness by signing Kinkade so MAYBE that's enough to pick up an additional 6-8 points but do we really want to bet on it or would we rather continue to add quality players who improve our chances. Like everyone else I prefer not to sign UFA'S to rediculous contracts but sometimes you simply have no choice. I am not as optimistic as everyone else that there is a trade for a LHD top 4 D are hard to come by and no GM wants to give one up. Our only voice may be to Sign Gardiner as much as everyone hates that thought.

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10 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I dodnt mean to come acrossed like I was saying just to add someone for the sake of adding someone. I would never want to do that my issue is we have holes that could be filled even with what is still out there for the right term and price of course. We missed the playoffs by 2 points and while I feel like this team has a shot at the playoffs everyone around us last year is improving their clubs while we didn't. My fear is that now we are even further out of the picture at the end of the year. However that being said we did fill our biggest weakness by signing Kinkade so MAYBE that's enough to pick up an additional 6-8 points but do we really want to bet on it or would we rather continue to add quality players who improve our chances. Like everyone else I prefer not to sign UFA'S to rediculous contracts but sometimes you simply have no choice. I am not as optimistic as everyone else that there is a trade for a LHD top 4 D are hard to come by and no GM wants to give one up. Our only voice may be to Sign Gardiner as much as everyone hates that thought.

Not everyone hates the thought. I think it's pretty  much 50 / 50. I'm in the hate it half because I don't believe for a second that he's a 1st pairing guy. To me he's at best a second pairing flawed D-man with a questionable health issue (back) who's going to demand 1st pairing money for ridiculous term. I keep thinking this is going to be a Komisarek 2.0 signing.  It's a hard pass for me.

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25 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Not everyone hates the thought. I think it's pretty  much 50 / 50. I'm in the hate it half because I don't believe for a second that he's a 1st pairing guy. To me he's at best a second pairing flawed D-man with a questionable health issue (back) who's going to demand 1st pairing money for ridiculous term. I keep thinking this is going to be a Komisarek 2.0 signing.  It's a hard pass for me.

I am up in the air with this guy. on one hand he has had back issues those would have to be looked into also he has never had a partner like Webber or even Petry to play with and that should really help his game. he also never had a Price behind him either..... i don't mind paying him good money if his back is ok just don't want to go more than 5 years. The market is tough right now and no one is going to give us anything so we need to pay for it until our young d men mature and i include Romanov just because he is not even here yet. in some ways i think we almost have to make this move.

Edited by ramcharger440
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3 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

I am up in the air with this guy. on one hand he has had back issues those would have to be looked into also he has never had a partner like Webber or even Petry to play with and that should really help his game. he also never had a Price behind him either..... i don't mind paying him good money if his back is ok just don't want to go more than 5 years. The market is tough right now and no one is going to give us anything so we need to pay for it until our young d men mature and i include Romanov just because he is not even here yet. in some ways i think we almost have to make this move.

The telling sign and a big red flag is that he hasn't been signed yet. He's one of the only LD available in the UFA market worth considering, and here we are four days in and nothing. You would think teams would line up in this situation when we all know D is always in demand. Sounds like he's either priced himself right out of the market or GM's out there are really leery  of this guy. I know I am.

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