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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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18 hours ago, ahmedou said:

With all due respects... Our hockey town is totally sleeping. Our hockey town is infected by the losers culture. Our hockey town is sick. Our town is drugged by this bad side of this sport. There’s no remedy or remedies yet... Our rivals are winning, going into records of performance and into finals. Our peers is losing and going into records of underperformance. It’s accepted like it’s. It became and it becomes a part of our culture.

I use and I'm using the word volcano many times. Like when it's corresponding to this stuff. An inoffensive one. Not awaken yet. How does we provoke it? I, you, she, he, we, they don't know really...

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I think hes saying essentially what I'm about to say.

We just arent being serious. Everything we do is just platitudes, treading water.

Since when is "hoping to make the playoffs" an acceptable philosophy.

I was listening to the tsn radio guys and someone was saying oh he tried! you gotta admit hes trying!

you know what that kind of trying is? when you ask out the girls you like and they say no and you go oh well I tried! I guess Im single forever! not my fault, I asked what else is there to do? You up your game, you get serious when you arent getting what you want.

you never trade subban for weber no matter how much of a problem you think he is. thats a loser trade. you being serious? you get prospects and picks, or you keep your legit star, not get an older safer guy who isnt going to make a difference.

you find a way to keep radulov. even if you overpay. at least as a fan , I say, well he had to overpay. He's trying to keep this team as stacked as possible. He wants to win now. 

Thats just two of the bigger examples in recent history but its all we ever hear. Im trying. Its hard. Loser talk.

What did we do this offseason, trade shaw (good!) to get cap space (...ok..) to offer sheet aho with a very reasonable deal? and that was all we had planned? oh well I tried. she said no. Incel. Trade shaw as part of a package to get that dman we obviously need. and maybe give up more than you want. because you have to if your serious about winning.

Im so jealous of toronto. they needed a top RD. they traded an important player and got one. Im so jealous of the rangers. they had the guts to say not good enough, traded mcdonagh and nash and look at them now. 

we said ummm well maybe we can kinda do it and kinda did nothing.  The only way we win anything is if we luck out completely with these kids like we did with the last 2 trades and they all pan out immediately and fill all the roster holes that need filling. thats not a plan, thats just plain old hoping it all works out somehow. I honestly kinda hope we have a bad year and miss the playoffs comfortably because its the only way we have any kind of chance of moving on from this crap

 

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Yeah the Rangers stuff is infuriating. Last two seasons they recognized they weren't good enough and did a full on scorched earth rebuild while we stumbled into a 3rd pick by accident and then tried to contend and missed again. Meanwhile, they added an elite prospect, Panarin who would be the best Habs skater since LaFleur, and Trouba who'd be our #1D.

It's entirely possible the Rangers make the playoffs before us after a full scorched earth rebuild while we sputter around and overpay Alzner and Chiarot because our GM was terrified to give Markov 2 years because it might eat into the 30 trillion dollars of cap space we've had for 2 years. 

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IDK, but I suspect that MB will do something big (at least big for him), and land someone who can realistically make a difference before training camp starts. Molson knows that the fans are getting restless and MB "should" know that he's under the gun to make it to the POs this season. Not only "make" the POs, but do some (serious?) damage. MB's 5 year plan has gone on far too long. 

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2 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

IDK, but I suspect that MB will do something big (at least big for him), and land someone who can realistically make a difference before training camp starts. Molson knows that the fans are getting restless and MB "should" know that he's under the gun to make it to the POs this season. Not only "make" the POs, but do some (serious?) damage. MB's 5 year plan has gone on far too long. 

Exactly this

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5 hours ago, jeff33 said:

you find a way to keep radulov. even if you overpay. at least as a fan , I say, well he had to overpay. He's trying to keep this team as stacked as possible. He wants to win now.

 

5 hours ago, Noob616 said:

It's entirely possible the Rangers make the playoffs before us after a full scorched earth rebuild while we sputter around and overpay Alzner and Chiarot because our GM was terrified to give Markov 2 years because it might eat into the 30 trillion dollars of cap space we've had for 2 years. 

Yeah, the Markov and Radulov debacle was the nail in the coffin for me. We had a good team back then and both guys were important pieces. I don't have an issue with overpaying for talent or trading assets to fill holes because ultimately, it'll actually make us better and more competitive. Instead, Bergevin overpays for marginal guys like Alzner or Chiarot who aren't going to move the needle. Smart cap management is as important as ever nowadays, but what we're doing isn't smart. It just leads to maintaining the status quo of a middling team that may or may not make the playoffs. As jeff said, it's a loser mentality. The goal shouldn't be trying to sign a big-ticket UFA or make the playoffs, the goal is to have a strong team that can go deep and compete with anyone in a seven game series. You can't plan a cup win, there are too many variables involved, but you can strategically increase your chances to win it. For many years, the team has been void of actual top-end talent while accumulating an army of 2nd and 3rd tier players that can be replaced rather easily. That's not how you build a cup winner.

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10 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

IDK, but I suspect that MB will do something big (at least big for him), and land someone who can realistically make a difference before training camp starts. Molson knows that the fans are getting restless and MB "should" know that he's under the gun to make it to the POs this season. Not only "make" the POs, but do some (serious?) damage. MB's 5 year plan has gone on far too long. 

I think what's more likely that Bergevn will do what he's always done. Say, "it's hard to land a player at the X position," wring his hands, and not improve the team. This has been pretty common through the first seven years of his tenure here. He lucked out that Domi did well at center and that he got a second chance to draft a top center prospect in the draft. Mostly he had just said, "Getting a top center is hard," and never got one.

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13 hours ago, jeff33 said:

I think hes saying essentially what I'm about to say.

We just arent being serious. Everything we do is just platitudes, treading water.

Since when is "hoping to make the playoffs" an acceptable philosophy.

I was listening to the tsn radio guys and someone was saying oh he tried! you gotta admit hes trying!

you know what that kind of trying is? when you ask out the girls you like and they say no and you go oh well I tried! I guess Im single forever! not my fault, I asked what else is there to do? You up your game, you get serious when you arent getting what you want.

you never trade subban for weber no matter how much of a problem you think he is. thats a loser trade. you being serious? you get prospects and picks, or you keep your legit star, not get an older safer guy who isnt going to make a difference.

you find a way to keep radulov. even if you overpay. at least as a fan , I say, well he had to overpay. He's trying to keep this team as stacked as possible. He wants to win now. 

Thats just two of the bigger examples in recent history but its all we ever hear. Im trying. Its hard. Loser talk.

What did we do this offseason, trade shaw (good!) to get cap space (...ok..) to offer sheet aho with a very reasonable deal? and that was all we had planned? oh well I tried. she said no. Incel. Trade shaw as part of a package to get that dman we obviously need. and maybe give up more than you want. because you have to if your serious about winning.

Im so jealous of toronto. they needed a top RD. they traded an important player and got one. Im so jealous of the rangers. they had the guts to say not good enough, traded mcdonagh and nash and look at them now. 

we said ummm well maybe we can kinda do it and kinda did nothing.  The only way we win anything is if we luck out completely with these kids like we did with the last 2 trades and they all pan out immediately and fill all the roster holes that need filling. thats not a plan, thats just plain old hoping it all works out somehow. I honestly kinda hope we have a bad year and miss the playoffs comfortably because its the only way we have any kind of chance of moving on from this crap

Before, on our glorious times it was: “if you make the Stanley cup finals, then anything can happen.” 

Nowadays, on our miserable times it's: “if you make the Playoffs, then anything can happen.” 

What a falling down... I haven't sufficient words to express myself...

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12 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

IDK, but I suspect that MB will do something big (at least big for him), and land someone who can realistically make a difference before training camp starts. Molson knows that the fans are getting restless and MB "should" know that he's under the gun to make it to the POs this season. Not only "make" the POs, but do some (serious?) damage. MB's 5 year plan has gone on far too long. 

Ya, he offer Scott Gomez a try out.

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1 hour ago, habby67 said:

MB has made some decent moves. My problem is after some massive failures he pulls them out of a hat when his job is on the line. Reminds me of my kid when I tell him to clean his room or find an apartment.....

I mean, we actually have no idea if Bergevin's job has ever been on the line. Molson seems content to keep him around. What is this? Year seven or year eight of the five-year plan? Even if Bergevin misses the playoffs again, Molson will probably keep him around for ANOTHER year.

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3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

With the Hudon signing, there is nothing left for Bergevin to do but focus on improving our LD situation. I mean, sure, he can also look around the league to see if there's anything doable when it comes to the various RFAs, but... that seems unlikely.

Well and try and figure out what the heck he's doing with all these bodies. 

Up front we need 12 regulars & a couple of spares.  We have Jk, Domi, Drouin, Tatar, Gallagher, Byron, Danault, Armia, Lehkonen, Poehling, Cousins, Thompson, Weal, Peca, Hudon, Weise and maybe Suzuki.   Thats's 17.


On D we need 6 regulars and 1 or 2 spares.   We have:
Weber, Petry, Mete, Juulsen, Chiarot, Kulak, Reilly, Folin, Alzner, Leskinen, Olofsson and possibly Brook or Fleury ready to challenge.  Thats 13.

 

 

19 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I mean, we actually have no idea if Bergevin's job has ever been on the line. Molson seems content to keep him around. What is this? Year seven or year eight of the five-year plan? Even if Bergevin misses the playoffs again, Molson will probably keep him around for ANOTHER year.

I feel like guys like David Poile have really messed up expectations for GMs.  MB can point to him & say "see, it takes a long time to build a contender" but the big difference here is that Poile got an absolutely crap team via expansion draft, while MB inherited a very solid roster. They should not be judged the same and i hope molson understands that. 

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26 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Well and try and figure out what the heck he's doing with all these bodies. 

Up front we need 12 regulars & a couple of spares.  We have Jk, Domi, Drouin, Tatar, Gallagher, Byron, Danault, Armia, Lehkonen, Poehling, Cousins, Thompson, Weal, Peca, Hudon, Weise and maybe Suzuki.   Thats's 17.


On D we need 6 regulars and 1 or 2 spares.   We have:
Weber, Petry, Mete, Juulsen, Chiarot, Kulak, Reilly, Folin, Alzner, Leskinen, Olofsson and possibly Brook or Fleury ready to challenge.  Thats 13.

 

 

I feel like guys like David Poile have really messed up expectations for GMs.  MB can point to him & say "see, it takes a long time to build a contender" but the big difference here is that Poile got an absolutely crap team via expansion draft, while MB inherited a very solid roster. They should not be judged the same and i hope molson understands that. 

And Poile still hasn't won anything yet either and as much as some disliked the Subban trade Poile actually did worse because he basically gave Subban away this year for cap space and we still have Weber. So in the long run (even at the time IMO) we won that trade!

 

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59 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

And Poile still hasn't won anything yet either and as much as some disliked the Subban trade Poile actually did worse because he basically gave Subban away this year for cap space and we still have Weber. So in the long run (even at the time IMO) we won that trade!

 

I don't think that's how you judge a trade... I ask myself, were we better off with Weber for the past 3 years or would we have been better off with Subban and I'd venture we'd have been better off with Subban. And yes yes, no one really knows how things would have gone, but Subban is the younger, faster, more skilled player and the odds are good he would have been the better guy. I get it if you feel differently. If we had kept Subban, there's nothing to say we would have or should have traded him by now and there's nothing to say we would have had to make a salary dump (and in fact, if you look at our roster, we could easily have afforded to keep Subban in place of Weber and still have cap room, so I don't think we would have been forced into the same trade Nashville made).

Now, from the other side, I think Nashville was better with Subban the past few years than they would have been with Weber. They cam pretty darn close to winning a Cup, farther than MB has gone with the Habs and farther than Nashville went with Weber. They traded him now for spare parts to some degree, but I'd guess Poile knew he was likely to land Duchene already and he saw this as Subban in exchange for those parts AND Duchene. If Erik Karlsson had hit the open market and we knew we were going to sign him July 1st and we dealt Weber for a 2nd round pick and two prospects and then signed Karlsson with the cap space we freed up, it frames the the trade differently than if we just dumped Weber for spare parts. I'm not sure whether Nashville will be better off with Duchene or Subban and that's a whole other discussion, but I don't think Nashville trading Subban makes Weber the better player nor makes us the winner in that past deal. At this point in time, I have no interest in re-acquiring Subban. That ship has sailed, and now we'd be getting a guy who's getting up in age and who's been hurt - he's now essentially where Weber was when we acquired Shea. So I'd rather look for someone younger with a longer window, which is always what it was about when discussing why the Weber-Subban trade was bad. I'm not arguing the merits of whether prime Subban is better or worse than prime Weber. I think that's a really close and heated discussion. What I think was clear was that we traded prime Subban for past-prime Weber, and THAT is the problem I had with the deal. Subban is getting to the point where he's past-prime now too, and like Weber, he's still a really good player. But his value is certainly not what it was in a trade 3 years ago. Nowadays, I'd much rather be targeting a Werenski or a Gostisbehere or so on to fill our roster, not a Subban or a Weber.

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5 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Is that the plan with all the extra bodies? Stoner squad?:ph34r:

Gorges predicted it when he did that purse thing so...I can already see I'm not the guy to ask about it.

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Well and try and figure out what the heck he's doing with all these bodies. 

Up front we need 12 regulars & a couple of spares.  We have Jk, Domi, Drouin, Tatar, Gallagher, Byron, Danault, Armia, Lehkonen, Poehling, Cousins, Thompson, Weal, Peca, Hudon, Weise and maybe Suzuki.   Thats's 17.


On D we need 6 regulars and 1 or 2 spares.   We have:
Weber, Petry, Mete, Juulsen, Chiarot, Kulak, Reilly, Folin, Alzner, Leskinen, Olofsson and possibly Brook or Fleury ready to challenge.  Thats 13.

I think some of the decisions are straight-forward.

Matthew Peca, Charles Hudon, Dale Weise, Karl Alzner, Otto Leskinen, Gustav Olofsson, Josh Brook, Cale Fleury... I kind of expect all to be optioned to Laval. That's eight bodies right there.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think some of the decisions are straight-forward.

Matthew Peca, Charles Hudon, Dale Weise, Karl Alzner, Otto Leskinen, Gustav Olofsson, Josh Brook, Cale Fleury... I kind of expect all to be optioned to Laval. That's eight bodies right there.

Yes and no. Weise and Alzner are definitely AHL bound.  Hudon & Peca I think will be given a chance. 

Leskinen and Olofsson could both actually be the best LHD we have - thats how messed up our left side is.  If either impresses in training camp there's a legit change they make it. 
Brook and Fleury most likely will be in Laval, yes, but if either shows they are ahead of schedule on development?   Or what if a guy like Juulsen gets traded in part of a deal for a LHD.

 

I just cant see us going into training camp with that many bodies. You basically HAVE TO lose some of them for nothing & thats poor asset management. 

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3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think some of the decisions are straight-forward.

Matthew Peca, Charles Hudon, Dale Weise, Karl Alzner, Otto Leskinen, Gustav Olofsson, Josh Brook, Cale Fleury... I kind of expect all to be optioned to Laval. That's eight bodies right there.

Yup. Unless one of the young D guys has an outstanding camp . Then you just send someone else down and if the player has to go through waivers and you lose him so be it .

See Lernout, Tinordi, Rinat Valiev, Michal Moravčík, David Sklenička , Jakub Jerabek etc

 

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7 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

And Poile still hasn't won anything yet either and as much as some disliked the Subban trade Poile actually did worse because he basically gave Subban away this year for cap space and we still have Weber. So in the long run (even at the time IMO) we won that trade!

 

Cap space is always useful unless your name Marc Bergevin. 

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