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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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10 hours ago, campabee82 said:

MB could have gotten Faulk or DeHaan or Maata for relatively low cost but instead Maata and DeHaan both went to the Hawks. Gostisbehere has been rumoured to be available for a roster player a 1st and a top flight prospect all things we have in abundance.

I know nothing of these players other than to look up their stats . Are any of these 4 a legitimate top pairing LHD man ? 

Here's some guy;s top 25 and another list of top 50 ( maybe the Habs should have kept # 24 )

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nhl/news/ranking-the-top-25-nhl-defensemen-in-2019-20/1np5r7070olje16g0rofg3l8k9

 

1. John Carlson, WSH (+1)
2. Victor Hedman, TBL (-1)
3. Erik Karlsson, SJS (SAME)
4. Brent Burns, SJS (SAME)
5. Morgan Rielly, TOR (+1)
6. Roman Josi, NSH* (-1)
7. Rasmus Dahlin, BUF (SAME)
8. Kris Letang, PIT (SAME)
9. Dougie Hamilton, CAR (SAME)
10. Mark Giordano, CGY (+1)
11. Cale Makar, COL (+1)
12. Jacob Trouba, NYR (+5)
13. Torey Krug, BOS* (+1)
14. John Klingberg, DAL (-1)
15. Seth Jones, CBJ (SAME)
16. Shea Weber, MTL (+3)
17. Oliver Ekman-Larsson, ARI (+8)
18. Tyson Barrie, TOR* (-8)
19. Drew Doughty, LAK (-3)
20. Ryan Ellis, NSH (+6)
21. Keith Yandle, FLA (-3)
22. Shea Theodore, VGK (-2)
23. Alex Pietrangelo, STL* (-2)
24. Mikhail Sergachev, TBL** (SAME)
25. P.K. Subban, NJD (-2)
26. Thomas Chabot, OTT (+2)
27. Josh Morrissey, WPG (SAME)
28. Oscar Klefbom, EDM (+8)
29. Miro Heiskanen, DAL (+3)
30. Quinn Hughes, VAN (SAME)
31. Erik Gustafsson, CHI* (-9)
32. Matt Dumba, MIN (-3)
33. Aaron Ekblad, FLA (-2)
34. Alexander Edler, VAN (+6)
35. Ivan Provorov, PHI (SAME)
36. Mattias Ekholm, NSH (-3)
37. Charlie McAvoy, BOS (-3)
38. Jake Muzzin, TOR* (+7)
39. Darnell Nurse, EDM** (+9)
40. Jeff Petry, MTL (+6)
41. Rasmus Ristolainen, BUF (+1)
42. Zach Werenski, CBJ (-5)
43. Devon Toews, NYI** (-4)
44. Ryan Suter, MIN (-6)
45. Kevin Shattenkirk, TBL* (+2)
46. Shayne Gostisbehere, PHI (-3)
47. Jaccob Slavin, CAR (-3)
48. Cam Fowler, ANA (NEW)
49. Justin Schultz, PIT* (SAME)
50. Samuel Girard, COL (SAME)

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The Chiarot signing looks like another albatross. I still miss Jordie Benn on the penalty kill specifically. Seems this years' defense is actually worse than last year on the left side at the same time that Weber is struggling to keep up with the pace as a top two on the right.

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2 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I know nothing of these players other than to look up their stats . Are any of these 4 a legitimate top pairing LHD man ? 

Here's some guy;s top 25 and another list of top 50 ( maybe the Habs should have kept # 24 )

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nhl/news/ranking-the-top-25-nhl-defensemen-in-2019-20/1np5r7070olje16g0rofg3l8k9

 

1. John Carlson, WSH (+1)
2. Victor Hedman, TBL (-1)
3. Erik Karlsson, SJS (SAME)
4. Brent Burns, SJS (SAME)
5. Morgan Rielly, TOR (+1)
6. Roman Josi, NSH* (-1)
7. Rasmus Dahlin, BUF (SAME)
8. Kris Letang, PIT (SAME)
9. Dougie Hamilton, CAR (SAME)
10. Mark Giordano, CGY (+1)
11. Cale Makar, COL (+1)
12. Jacob Trouba, NYR (+5)
13. Torey Krug, BOS* (+1)
14. John Klingberg, DAL (-1)
15. Seth Jones, CBJ (SAME)
16. Shea Weber, MTL (+3)
17. Oliver Ekman-Larsson, ARI (+8)
18. Tyson Barrie, TOR* (-8)
19. Drew Doughty, LAK (-3)
20. Ryan Ellis, NSH (+6)
21. Keith Yandle, FLA (-3)
22. Shea Theodore, VGK (-2)
23. Alex Pietrangelo, STL* (-2)
24. Mikhail Sergachev, TBL** (SAME)
25. P.K. Subban, NJD (-2)
26. Thomas Chabot, OTT (+2)
27. Josh Morrissey, WPG (SAME)
28. Oscar Klefbom, EDM (+8)
29. Miro Heiskanen, DAL (+3)
30. Quinn Hughes, VAN (SAME)
31. Erik Gustafsson, CHI* (-9)
32. Matt Dumba, MIN (-3)
33. Aaron Ekblad, FLA (-2)
34. Alexander Edler, VAN (+6)
35. Ivan Provorov, PHI (SAME)
36. Mattias Ekholm, NSH (-3)
37. Charlie McAvoy, BOS (-3)
38. Jake Muzzin, TOR* (+7)
39. Darnell Nurse, EDM** (+9)
40. Jeff Petry, MTL (+6)
41. Rasmus Ristolainen, BUF (+1)
42. Zach Werenski, CBJ (-5)
43. Devon Toews, NYI** (-4)
44. Ryan Suter, MIN (-6)
45. Kevin Shattenkirk, TBL* (+2)
46. Shayne Gostisbehere, PHI (-3)
47. Jaccob Slavin, CAR (-3)
48. Cam Fowler, ANA (NEW)
49. Justin Schultz, PIT* (SAME)
50. Samuel Girard, COL (SAME)

Lol! Webber ranked 16th ahead of Subban Petry and Sergachev who is rated right in front of Subban!

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13 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Just messaged Mr Molson at his #askgeoffchc account to ask how many chances MB is going to get to pull off his 5 year plan to rebuild the Habs. Said he is now on year 8 of his 5 year plan and that the empty seats he sees around the arena is due to the fact that MB doesn't realize that a large quantity of dmen are not the same as a few quality Dmen. I really don't expect to hear back or even get an acknowledgement but figured maybe if he gets enough frustrated fan mail he may answer someone or maybe start feeling pressure and make some changes. This is getting rediculous it isn't even enjoyable to watch the games anymore. Constantly yelling at the 5v for the D to clear the front of the net and get the puck moving in the other direction. This team has a good foundation and some quality players but the D keeps dragging the team down. MB clearly doesn't know his A$$ from a hole in the ground and can't or won't get the talent we need to move forward. I hate being so negative as I  mostly a positive person but this Shi! Is P!ssing me off.

Molson probably has a lackey weeding out the difficult/embarrassing questions so don't expect a reply.  

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1 minute ago, ramcharger440 said:

the part that gets me upset is we had a young prospect and we had an ageing vet who wanted to stay for a year or two......kind of seems like a self inflicted idiot wound. and he has had years now to fix it.....come on already!

Im assuming you are talking about Sergachev and Markov - and you're right. Defense was rickety but nowhere near as bad as it is now.   I like Drouin & what he brings but making that trade - and then not following up with another - was just stupid.

The thing that gets me - is that we sign guys like Alzner and Chiarot (when its clear they arent an ideal match) but in other years we totally pass over guys like DeHaan who actually would have fit well with what we were looking for.  I have no faith in MB's ability to evaluate his team's needs. 

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Just now, maas_art said:

Im assuming you are talking about Sergachev and Markov - and you're right. Defense was rickety but nowhere near as bad as it is now.   I like Drouin & what he brings but making that trade - and then not following up with another - was just stupid.

The thing that gets me - is that we sign guys like Alzner and Chiarot (when its clear they arent an ideal match) but in other years we totally pass over guys like DeHaan who actually would have fit well with what we were looking for.  I have no faith in MB's ability to evaluate his team's needs. 

for some reason he has been able to sort out our forwards but as a former D man he seems to have no clue how to build a modern D corps! they are all starting to look like he did! marginal!

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Yeah, the common defence of Bergevin's inaction is that

1. There are no D men available.

2. You have to give up too much to get someone.

These were the same things Bergevin said about centers, before we patched that hole up with Domi. But as was mentioned, Justin Faulk was dealt with a 5th rounder in exchange for Joel Edmundson, a late first-round prospect, and a 7th. Edmundson is a depth D man who is comparable in age to Faulk. So the price to upgrade was essentially one recent first-rounder. For us, this would be the equivalent of giving up a Poehling or a Ylonen, although frankly, my feeling is that both those guys are better than Bokk. So would you give up Chiarot or Kulak combined with a Poehling or Ylonen to get a player of Justin Faulk's caliber, if that player played left D? I would... I'm not looking to re-acquire Subban but the Devils got him for peanuts.

We've seen rumors of players like Ghost, Klefbom, Matheson, Fowler, and so on being available. Sure, there's a price to be paid, but right now, the price we're paying is that our D is bad and losing us games. So we're sitting here wasting away Price and Weber and Petry's window to win anything.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Yeah, the common defence of Bergevin's inaction is that

1. There are no D men available.

2. You have to give up too much to get someone.

These were the same things Bergevin said about centers, before we patched that hole up with Domi. But as was mentioned, Justin Faulk was dealt with a 5th rounder in exchange for Joel Edmundson, a late first-round prospect, and a 7th. Edmundson is a depth D man who is comparable in age to Faulk. So the price to upgrade was essentially one recent first-rounder. For us, this would be the equivalent of giving up a Poehling or a Ylonen, although frankly, my feeling is that both those guys are better than Bokk. So would you give up Chiarot or Kulak combined with a Poehling or Ylonen to get a player of Justin Faulk's caliber, if that player played left D? I would... I'm not looking to re-acquire Subban but the Devils got him for peanuts.

We've seen rumors of players like Ghost, Klefbom, Matheson, Fowler, and so on being available. Sure, there's a price to be paid, but right now, the price we're paying is that our D is bad and losing us games. So we're sitting here wasting away Price and Weber and Petry's window to win anything.

I was thinking of Subban too! i was never as against the trade as some but i sure did like Subban too. could you have imagined if we had Webber and could have got Subban back too! A good GM finds a way to make things happen, there is just no excuse for us to have that big of a glaring hole in a key position and waste all the players good years and our time and money or Molson's for that matter. WE HAVE ASSETS WE HAVE MONEY GET IT DONE! or is it still too hard for you? seems other Gm's fine a way.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Yeah, the common defence of Bergevin's inaction is that

1. There are no D men available.

2. You have to give up too much to get someone.

These were the same things Bergevin said about centers, before we patched that hole up with Domi. But as was mentioned, Justin Faulk was dealt with a 5th rounder in exchange for Joel Edmundson, a late first-round prospect, and a 7th. Edmundson is a depth D man who is comparable in age to Faulk. So the price to upgrade was essentially one recent first-rounder. For us, this would be the equivalent of giving up a Poehling or a Ylonen, although frankly, my feeling is that both those guys are better than Bokk. So would you give up Chiarot or Kulak combined with a Poehling or Ylonen to get a player of Justin Faulk's caliber, if that player played left D? I would... I'm not looking to re-acquire Subban but the Devils got him for peanuts.

We've seen rumors of players like Ghost, Klefbom, Matheson, Fowler, and so on being available. Sure, there's a price to be paid, but right now, the price we're paying is that our D is bad and losing us games. So we're sitting here wasting away Price and Weber and Petry's window to win anything.

Especially when teams know you need help.

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9 hours ago, habs1952 said:

Especially when teams know you need help.

But most team need help in some way or another... there are plenty of teams who were or still are tight on cap space. There are ones that need scoring or ones that need D men or ones that want to get younger or so on. There are teams that have disgruntled players who have asked for trades. Lots of other teams are looking to shake things up, so there are opportunities as a GM there too.

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While we have started 4-4-2 compared to 6-2-2 there are a few bright spots. We are actually 3-1 against the central division (we were 1-3 against the Blues and Wild last year) where last year we ended 8-8. The D has been physical this year and while I do see some running around we are leaving some players wide open for easy shots and a lot of this is on the forwards who are not coming back or picking up their man in the defensive zone. The PK also needs to get better, and we should get a good look at how its doing tonight against the Leafs.

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2 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Another long stretch between games (4 days) then a B2B. Does Price get the Yotes or Vegas?

They're 4 and 5 in the Conf. LV has lost 3 at home and AZ has lost 1. Both will be hard to win. 

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Happy to beat the Leafs but at some point they've got to decide if this is a winning year or a rebuilding year because Kotkaniemi playing 9 minutes at ES while Thompson plays 12+ is just nonsense. We've seen this movie before and I'm so sick and tired of it.

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15 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

Happy to beat the Leafs but at some point they've got to decide if this is a winning year or a rebuilding year because Kotkaniemi playing 9 minutes at ES while Thompson plays 12+ is just nonsense. We've seen this movie before and I'm so sick and tired of it.

I believe as much as we all want to see him become great he isn't there yet. Your draft position doesn't give you automatic minutes or line mates ect. He hasn't looked bad but he isn't standing out where you watch him and have no choice to play him more. He hasn't been as good as he could be defensively this year and even though he may have added weight he's still getting knocked off the puck when he's not in open ice. We all do need to remember he's still only 19. Thompson also has played pretty well this year. They are also used in different roles and JK still needs to sheltered somewhat depending on the given situation and the game. Year two he's not surprising any teams this year.

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 Julien should play the players that give us the best chance to win games, right now Kotkaniemi is playing marginally better then Weal or our Laval forwards so he gets ice time with the big club. He has to improve his strength on the puck and put more effort into his defensive responsibilities. He is still young and has shown some potential but the jury is still out on whether our expectations for his future success are valid.  If he wants more ice time than Thompson, play better than Thompson. It is really that simple. 

I don't buy into into the premise that an NHL hockey roster should be a development program for some possible future success, maybe because at my age the "window" for another Montreal Cup is rapidly closing. 

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2 hours ago, RCAF48 said:

 Julien should play the players that give us the best chance to win games, right now Kotkaniemi is playing marginally better then Weal or our Laval forwards so he gets ice time with the big club. He has to improve his strength on the puck and put more effort into his defensive responsibilities. He is still young and has shown some potential but the jury is still out on whether our expectations for his future success are valid.  If he wants more ice time than Thompson, play better than Thompson. It is really that simple. 

I don't buy into into the premise that an NHL hockey roster should be a development program for some possible future success, maybe because at my age the "window" for another Montreal Cup is rapidly closing. 

I agree with this post. I like KK but quite frankly I don't think he is playing as well this year as he was early last season. I m not worried about his icetime. He is getting to play against the best players in the world at 19 years old. HE has been getting some power play time recently. We have a a group of 6 forwards getting 16 to 17 per game, and 6 forwards who get 13 to 14 minutes on average per game.  He fits in that second group. Even Suzuki has played better and smarter hockey then KK, but they both find themselves in that 13, 14 minuete group because that is where they belong right now in there carreers. 

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8 hours ago, Noob616 said:

So send him to the AHL if we're trying to win at all costs even if it means playing a 35 year old 12th forward like he's prime Sami Pahlsson.

 

Disagree with this KK may not be scoring at a torrent pace and may have a few more giveaways then at this point last year but in the first 4 - 6 games Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Armia were the Habs best line both offensively and defensively. Then CJ decided it was time to break up that line and promote Drouin and things started to go backwards for KK. He got sub par wingers and is being asked to carry wingers who just arent as creative as he is so he is trying to do things more on his own. 

2 hours ago, RCAF48 said:

 Julien should play the players that give us the best chance to win games, right now Kotkaniemi is playing marginally better then Weal or our Laval forwards so he gets ice time with the big club. He has to improve his strength on the puck and put more effort into his defensive responsibilities. He is still young and has shown some potential but the jury is still out on whether our expectations for his future success are valid.  If he wants more ice time than Thompson, play better than Thompson. It is really that simple. 

I don't buy into into the premise that an NHL hockey roster should be a development program for some possible future success, maybe because at my age the "window" for another Montreal Cup is rapidly closing. 

To the first part of this I will agree he needs to be stronger on the puck. The second part of this is correct the NHL is not a development league. That said compare the first 5 games of the season for KK to the last 5 and you will see once he got the better wingers taken away his confidence seemed to have dropped along with his ice time. CJ is not doing the kid any favours by limiting his ice time and taking the more skilled guys off his line once the line starts to dominate. Earlier in the year I think it was in the Tampa game the commentators said that teams facing the Canadiens were trying to match their best players against the Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Armia line cause that is the Habs line that was doing the most damage. I think that's why CJ broke up that line was cause KK was no longer being sheltered like he thought he should be. Why else would you breakup your most dominate line.

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