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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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1 minute ago, arpem-can said:

  well I for one would be happy if Poehling ended up like Danault ...that being said there were unrealistic expectations after his first NHL game by some fans ...I do think he will be  a solid defensively responsible center with some offensive capabilities who needs to work on aspects of his game not the least of which is his face-off ability ...going back to the AHL gives him that opportunity 

Don't get me wrong .. .Poehling will be an important part of this roster, he'll be our shut down guy for years.    Pair him with two offensively gifted wingers and that line will succeed.  I think people have an unrealistic expectation that he's also going to be an offensive force as well.   As far as C's go ... Suzuki and JK are light years ahead in terms of raw talent, vision and natural offensive instincts.   Something I just don't see when I watch Poehling.  

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9 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Wings are currently on a 12 game winless streak and face the Jets before us on Saturday. They could be coming to the Bell on a 13 game streak. How scary is that? I hate facing desperate teams. :rolleyes:

You probably just jinxed that game for us buddy :unsure:

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2 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Don't get me wrong .. .Poehling will be an important part of this roster, he'll be our shut down guy for years.    Pair him with two offensively gifted wingers and that line will succeed.  I think people have an unrealistic expectation that he's also going to be an offensive force as well.   As far as C's go ... Suzuki and JK are light years ahead in terms of raw talent, vision and natural offensive instincts.   Something I just don't see when I watch Poehling.  

 I'll agree with that . Suzuki and JK have the goods already . Poehling will be a great addition to our club after he learns the tricks of the trade in the NHL. He never was a scorer at any level so it's not realistic to expect anything beyond his limited upside . Having said that I like his size and speed and there's always that unknown  late-bloomer possibility .

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8 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

 I'll agree with that . Suzuki and JK have the goods already . Poehling will be a great addition to our club after he learns the tricks of the trade in the NHL. He never was a scorer at any level so it's not realistic to expect anything beyond his limited upside . Having said that I like his size and speed and there's always that unknown  late-bloomer possibility .

Same here. I'm more than happy if Poehling turns out to be Danault 2.0, everything else is just gravy. Danault will probably never become a goalscorer but a defensively responsible, all-situations center who's good for ~50 points is pretty valuable in itself IMO.

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1 hour ago, ChiLla said:

a defensively responsible, all-situations center who's good for ~50 points is pretty valuable in itself IMO.

the way the game is going i think you could argue that a 50 point 2 way centre is probably worth as much if not more than an all-offense ribeiro type player who scores 70-80 points but is a sieve defensively. 

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

So, you waive Byron and lose him for nothing?   Poehling is waiver exempt.   Sure it could be argued we could send Barber down over Poehling, as he's still waiver exempt for a few more games.    However, Barber is older and really can't develop much further and so its not affecting key development time playing on the 4th line, Poehling on the other hand would benefit far more from increased ice time and responsibility in the top 6 in Laval.

And how is Byron supposed to get his game back if Poehling has taken his spot?  On the 4th line, because that's where Poehling played.  What line do you propose Byron play on, the 5th? the dressing room?

I really like Poehling and am disappointed. That said I completely understand the reasoning. We now have enough depth with good developing young players that you don't want to lose them along with giving them opportunities. Later in the season the roster will expand and I'm sure he will see more action. Byron does have speed and is a good penalty killer also.

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2 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

You are more than likely correct, I just hate to see any shake to the line up after playing so well last night.

 

I feel this is so far off the mark, I personally believe Poehling will be a first line center,  I think past history shows it doesn't really matter where a player is drafted compared to their NHL potential. If given a real opportunity he will far surpass JK,  I have followed this kid through college, World Junior and now AHL

Actually when Suzuki was drafted he wasn't expected to be more than a 3rd line center/wing. All players develop at different rates. Poehling playing with and against top players had a great world juniors , not just his first nhl game. I think he "could" become a 1st or 2nd line center easily enough. It may take a couple years. Bergereon wasn't a top center for a long time. If Poehling ends up like Bergeroen or Danualt or Toews I've got no issue. He could end up like Eller also (who was a first rounder ) which is fine too. Suzuki to me looks like the best shot of the three to be a 1 or 2. I like JK but I don't know if he'll ever be a #1 a #2A like Poehling as in a Toews Bergereon type maybe but he's never going to be Mathews , MacCinnon ect. I'm not trying to argue my opinion and none of us will know until a couple years from now. (If anyone does know absolute , please send me next weeks lotto numbers)

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40 minutes ago, maas_art said:

the way the game is going i think you could argue that a 50 point 2 way centre is probably worth as much if not more than an all-offense ribeiro type player who scores 70-80 points but is a sieve defensively. 

There is a reason when ahead a goal late in the game in their own zone Draisiatal is in more often than McDavid. At this time I think Drasital is a better overall player. When Bowman made Yszerman start to play better defensively that's when they started to win cups.

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27 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

Actually when Suzuki was drafted he wasn't expected to be more than a 3rd line center/wing. All players develop at different rates. Poehling playing with and against top players had a great world juniors , not just his first nhl game. I think he "could" become a 1st or 2nd line center easily enough. It may take a couple years. Bergereon wasn't a top center for a long time. If Poehling ends up like Bergeroen or Danualt or Toews I've got no issue. He could end up like Eller also (who was a first rounder ) which is fine too. Suzuki to me looks like the best shot of the three to be a 1 or 2. I like JK but I don't know if he'll ever be a #1 a #2A like Poehling as in a Toews Bergereon type maybe but he's never going to be Mathews , MacCinnon ect. I'm not trying to argue my opinion and none of us will know until a couple years from now. (If anyone does know absolute , please send me next weeks lotto numbers)

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Re: the bolded part though, do remember that he is the youngest of the 3 - one full year younger than Suzuki and a year and a half behind Poehling. So i think there's still time to develop although I would agree that right now, Suzuki seems like more likely bet. He just sees the game differently than just about any other player we have up front. I could easily see him leading us in scoring within a year or two 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Re: the bolded part though, do remember that he is the youngest of the 3 - one full year younger than Suzuki and a year and a half behind Poehling. So i think there's still time to develop although I would agree that right now, Suzuki seems like more likely bet. He just sees the game differently than just about any other player we have up front. I could easily see him leading us in scoring within a year or two 

JK has the same vision as Suzuki ... he's just younger and less developed.    Suzuki/JK will be a top line center ... Poehling will not ever be Patrice Bergeron or Toews.

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Count me as another Supporter of Poehling as a 3rd line possible 2nd line Centre -a potentially solid power Centre but I don’t see yet the vision or creativity for him to be an offensive weapon. We all want this guy to succeed and other than his shootout goal iirc, his goals in that mercurial leaf game were rebound or angle timing shots vs play making dekes or roof daddies. I think we as a fan base in our desperation for a hero leader put way too much on him for expectations 

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22 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

JK has the same vision as Suzuki ... he's just younger and less developed.    Suzuki/JK will be a top line center ... Poehling will not ever be Patrice Bergeron or Toews.

JK is definitely young and undeveloped. Sometimes he shows flashes excellence, sometimes he looks lost and overwhelmed, and (just like his initial scouting report warned us) still seems to struggle to stay on his feet. 

I have faith he will transform into an excellent, top six talent. Whether it’s at center or on the wing. But it’s no more of a sure thing that he will, than it is a sure thing that Poehling won’t be the next Patrice Bergeron (although I think a more accurate comparison of potential is Ryan O’Reilly).  

 

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25 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

JK is definitely young and undeveloped. Sometimes he shows flashes excellence, sometimes he looks lost and overwhelmed, and (just like his initial scouting report warned us) still seems to struggle to stay on his feet. 

I have faith he will transform into an excellent, top six talent. Whether it’s at center or on the wing. But it’s no more of a sure thing that he will, than it is a sure thing that Poehling won’t be the next Patrice Bergeron (although I think a more accurate comparison of potential is Ryan O’Reilly).  

 

Quite honestly I like Poehling too however he is a guy I can see MB moving along with our 1st and a 2nd at the draft to get the 1st OVA pick and take Lafrenier. We already have JK NS MD and PD down the middle and PD is only what like 26 and the oldest making RP or PD expendable to get that 1st OVA 

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50 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Quite honestly I like Poehling too however he is a guy I can see MB moving along with our 1st and a 2nd at the draft to get the 1st OVA pick and take Lafrenier. We already have JK NS MD and PD down the middle and PD is only what like 26 and the oldest making RP or PD expendable to get that 1st OVA 

I would have a hard time believing that the team with the overall pick would do that trade. Also if he wanted Lafrenier (because he's French) it might take JK or Suzuki and that's depending how JK even finishes the season.

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3 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I would have a hard time believing that the team with the overall pick would do that trade. Also if he wanted Lafrenier (because he's French) it might take JK or Suzuki and that's depending how JK even finishes the season.

It's all just speculation anyway besides the French part would just be a bonus to MB the kid is actually really good.

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4 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I would have a hard time believing that the team with the overall pick would do that trade. Also if he wanted Lafrenier (because he's French) it might take JK or Suzuki and that's depending how JK even finishes the season.

  I don't know the answer to this but how many 1st overall picks have been traded away since Montreal snagged LaFleur ? ...From what I understand LeFrenier could be a generational talent ...why would another team give that up ?...to further that argument the draft now is a bit of as crap shoot as well ...so teams are wary because there's no guarantee 

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1 hour ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

JK is definitely young and undeveloped. Sometimes he shows flashes excellence, sometimes he looks lost and overwhelmed, and (just like his initial scouting report warned us) still seems to struggle to stay on his feet. 

I have faith he will transform into an excellent, top six talent. Whether it’s at center or on the wing. But it’s no more of a sure thing that he will, than it is a sure thing that Poehling won’t be the next Patrice Bergeron (although I think a more accurate comparison of potential is Ryan O’Reilly).  

 

I actually think the O'Reilly comparison could be close. If that worked out it would be great because as someone else posted a strong two center with some offensive upside could be worth more than just an offensive guy. I know we are all hoping stardom for them all. I hope between the three at least one will be a definite #1 center.  That said with the three we are talking about they may all end up being very strong #2's or #1-B's. It does seem all three have defensive awareness and puck smarts. JK seems to have flashes of skill but gets knocked off the puck a lot and down in the corners. He's still a kid. Suzuki seems to have a nose for the net and good hockey smarts. Poehling has good size and strength. I think all three have potential to be equal value and different skill sets. Not a bad future to build around. I'd have no problem if any one of the three ended up on wing or 1st/2nd/3rd line center. They will all get plenty of playing time utilized differently and I'm sure against different teams that we play.

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5 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I actually think the O'Reilly comparison could be close. If that worked out it would be great because as someone else posted a strong two center with some offensive upside could be worth more than just an offensive guy. I know we are all hoping stardom for them all. I hope between the three at least one will be a definite #1 center.  That said with the three we are talking about they may all end up being very strong #2's or #1-B's. It does seem all three have defensive awareness and puck smarts. JK seems to have flashes of skill but gets knocked off the puck a lot and down in the corners. He's still a kid. Suzuki seems to have a nose for the net and good hockey smarts. Poehling has good size and strength. I think all three have potential to be equal value and different skill sets. Not a bad future to build around. I'd have no problem if any one of the three ended up on wing or 1st/2nd/3rd line center. They will all get plenty of playing time utilized differently and I'm sure against different teams that we play.

And the other thing is that as Suzuki, Poehling, JK, Caufield etc hit their prime, guys like Domi, Drouin, Lehkonen and Armia should also be well within their prime yes.  Yes, Gallagher and Danault may be heading out of prime but thats still a really solid group especially if one or two of them do end up being true top line talents. 

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36 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I would have a hard time believing that the team with the overall pick would do that trade. Also if he wanted Lafrenier (because he's French) it might take JK or Suzuki and that's depending how JK even finishes the season.

I wasn't saying it wouldn't take more or even that MB should do it I was saying that I can see MB trying some kind of package like that especially with Lafrenier being French and the draft in Montreal. 

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46 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  I don't know the answer to this but how many 1st overall picks have been traded away since Montreal snagged LaFleur ? ...From what I understand LeFrenier could be a generational talent ...why would another team give that up ?...to further that argument the draft now is a bit of as crap shoot as well ...so teams are wary because there's no guarantee 

Here is an article written in 2015 when McDavid was being drafted. While there has never been a 1st over all pick traded since the implementation of the cap there are a number of interesting 1sts on the list most notably Marc-andre Fleury, Rick Nash and while he was traded after the draft Eric Lindros. I thìnk the Lindros price would be about equal to what someone would have to give up for Lafrenier but it would have to be done once the lottery had taken place.

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/were-no-1-the-history-of-trading-the-nhls-top-pick/

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32 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Here is an article written in 2015 when McDavid was being drafted. While there has never been a 1st over all pick traded since the implementation of the cap there are a number of interesting 1sts on the list most notably Marc-andre Fleury, Rick Nash and while he was traded after the draft Eric Lindros. I thìnk the Lindros price would be about equal to what someone would have to give up for Lafrenier but it would have to be done once the lottery had taken place.

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/were-no-1-the-history-of-trading-the-nhls-top-pick/

 

33 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Here is an article written in 2015 when McDavid was being drafted. While there has never been a 1st over all pick traded since the implementation of the cap there are a number of interesting 1sts on the list most notably Marc-andre Fleury, Rick Nash and while he was traded after the draft Eric Lindros. I thìnk the Lindros price would be about equal to what someone would have to give up for Lafrenier but it would have to be done once the lottery had taken place.

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/were-no-1-the-history-of-trading-the-nhls-top-pick/

thx for the article ...good memory shake 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Here is an article written in 2015 when McDavid was being drafted. While there has never been a 1st over all pick traded since the implementation of the cap there are a number of interesting 1sts on the list most notably Marc-andre Fleury, Rick Nash and while he was traded after the draft Eric Lindros. I thìnk the Lindros price would be about equal to what someone would have to give up for Lafrenier but it would have to be done once the lottery had taken place.

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/were-no-1-the-history-of-trading-the-nhls-top-pick/

I like that whole “right to swap picks” angle. That’d be cool to see more often!

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