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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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1 hour ago, tony5775 said:

Even though Weber has a cap hit of 7, he will only make 6 mil for this year and the next two. After that it is 1 year at 3 million. The rest are 1 million. His actual salary is well worth what he brings to the team. 

Which might make him more tradeable in terms of someone taking his contract, but it probably doesn't help his trade value in terms of return and it certainly doesn't help our cap situation. For the Habs, the issue has never been absolute salary, it's what the cap hit is, and in this case, I find a 7+M cap hit hard to swallow if Weber is 36 or 38 down the line and no better than what Chara is now. No one knows for sure how he'll age, but the odds are against him being a top pairing guy.

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1 hour ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I don’t think it’s quite that black and white. I read that article as well, but I think what he meant by that was that we’re not at that level of contender, where it makes sense to make a move like Arizona just did for Hall (lol I don’t think Arizona is at that level either). To make a move like that you’d better be more than just a contender, you’d better be a favourite. So I think what he meant to say is that we’re not favourites to win the cup. So even though we’re not in a position to go all in on “that final piece of the puzzle”, we’re nowhere near “fire sale” time either.

This may very well be the core of our future, but your timeline might be a touch optimistic. I think we’re looking at 2023 as the earliest this group is where it needs to be for them to be considered the core of the team. If we’re prepared to wait until then for a sniff at the playoffs, I suppose we could sell off some of our vets for assets and keep building. But I get the impression that the plan is to stay as competitive as possible in the meantime, while bringing these guys up nice and slow.

But this is part of my problem with MB's philosophy... he's admitting we're not favorites to win the Cup and he's admitting we're a fringe playoff team. He's stated out loud that he thought of this roster as being in a position to fight for a playoff spot. So he views us as being maybe the 14th to 20th best team in the league. Your odds of winning a Cup when that's your rank is maybe 1%. Conversely, you look at teams like TB, Bos, SJ, Vegas, and Washington that are regularly in the top 5-6 teams in the league and they probably have odds of 5-10% each of winning a Cup.

I'm not disagreeing with Bergevin's statements yesterday. I agree that we're a fringe playoff team. I agree that we probably need more than one piece to be a favorite for the Cup. I agree that it would cost us some prospects or picks to get that done. And I have no problem with Bergevin saying we don't have the cards right now to go all in and that's fine. BUT if you recognize all that, my problem is hanging on to Weber and Petry and Price and Tatar and Byron... like I've said multiple times, we have a key group of players hitting UFA status in a year and a half. if you're not a key contender for a Cup this year or next, then you should be planning on when you realistically will be a challenger for a Cup. It does nothing for your franchise to be a fringe playoff team. Those teams are ones that just make or just miss the playoffs and end up with 15th overall picks. They never draft superstars and they don't attract the biggest name free agents because no one sees them as a winner either. It's just a bad position to be in. Like Jedi said, the value of Weber and Price and so on is likely to depreciate, so it's all well and nice to keep them around for leadership but you're also dropping the trade value of whatever you get back to help you in 2021 or 2023 or so on.

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20 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Which might make him more tradeable in terms of someone taking his contract, but it probably doesn't help his trade value in terms of return and it certainly doesn't help our cap situation. For the Habs, the issue has never been absolute salary, it's what the cap hit is, and in this case, I find a 7+M cap hit hard to swallow if Weber is 36 or 38 down the line and no better than what Chara is now. No one knows for sure how he'll age, but the odds are against him being a top pairing guy.

It would help his trade value a ton because everyone knows by looking at how that deal is structured that Weber will come down with some bizzare skin condition or a recurring knee injury that suddenly renders him unable to play in September 2023 when his salary drops to 1M. There's no way he plays out those 1M years, and any team trading for him would be doing it understanding they're getting the remainder of this year and three more years at a 7.8M cap hit. 

I think we (by "we" I mean online hockey nerds) seriously underrate the return he'd fetch, GMs and coaches absolutely love this guy and if he were a UFA this summer teams would have been lining up to sign him for 4 years at 7.8M, which is the contract he's actually on in all practicality because we've seen this 1M LTIR stuff a million times. Tyler Myers just got 5 years at 6M, Justin Faulk 7 years at 6.5M, GM's go way over the top to bring in RHD and with Weber you're getting a guy with what borders on a cult of personality and league-wide worship. An NHL GM is going to look at Shea Weber solving all their defensive issues and then squeal with delight when they see he's on pace for 25 goals and 67 points.

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1 hour ago, Noob616 said:

It would help his trade value a ton because everyone knows by looking at how that deal is structured that Weber will come down with some bizzare skin condition or a recurring knee injury that suddenly renders him unable to play in September 2023 when his salary drops to 1M. There's no way he plays out those 1M years, and any team trading for him would be doing it understanding they're getting the remainder of this year and three more years at a 7.8M cap hit. 

I think we (by "we" I mean online hockey nerds) seriously underrate the return he'd fetch, GMs and coaches absolutely love this guy and if he were a UFA this summer teams would have been lining up to sign him for 4 years at 7.8M, which is the contract he's actually on in all practicality because we've seen this 1M LTIR stuff a million times. Tyler Myers just got 5 years at 6M, Justin Faulk 7 years at 6.5M, GM's go way over the top to bring in RHD and with Weber you're getting a guy with what borders on a cult of personality and league-wide worship. An NHL GM is going to look at Shea Weber solving all their defensive issues and then squeal with delight when they see he's on pace for 25 goals and 67 points.

My point was that he's more tradeable now than in two years... Tony had stated that the contract wouldn't be an issue to trade because the actual salary was low, but what I was saying was that if you trade him in two years, the low salary definitely helps you to dump him but I don't think it helps the return in a trade that much.

I'll give you a choice:

A. You can acquire 34 year-old Weber today with 6.5 years left on his contract and 2.5-3.5 years of legitimately-salaried years left.

B. You can acquire 36 year-old Weber in 2 years or 37 year-old Weber in 3 years. In 2 years, for example, he'd have 5 years left on his contract but only one year with a salary of 6M, one year after that at 3M, and then a few years at 1M.

Now no one knows what Weber's intentions are. If he's on a Cup contender, maybe he's willing to play for a million a year just to get a shot at winning. Look at Kovalchuk, who was just released and has stated he's willing to sign for minimum wage if a contender takes him on. Maybe Weber plans on retiring in 3 years or in 4 years. Either way, a team is getting a guy who's close to 40 either at a 7.86M cap hit or else they're getting him for a year or two with the thought that he'll retire shortly after they acquire him in a trade, but without a guarantee that will happen. Do I think someone will take him on? Sure. I think he'll still be tradeable. But do I think anyone's giving up a first round draft pick or a quality NHLer or a blue chip prospect in two years? Nope. Might they do it now? I think so. I think you're making the same point as me, in that a team might look at how Weber's done this year and see a guy who can be decent for another couple of years and be willing to ante up today. But in two years?

By keeping, the Habs risk that he has another major injury that slows him down. They risk a drop-off in his level of play that devalues him as a trade commodity. Now if the Habs were a contender this year or next, then it's probably worth it to keep Weber and try to win the Cup. In essence, he's your own veteran acquisition to try and push you to the top. But Bergevin himself has stated we're not a true contender now. He's also pretty blatantly stated several times that he won't trade our top prospects or high draft choices to acquire anyone. So it doesn't look like there's much outside help coming to buoy Weber or Price or Petry's chances of winning a Cup in the next two years. Any major improvement over that time is going to have to come from within the organization. As good as some of our prospects might be, do we think Kotkaniemi or Suzuki is becoming a top-line center by next year? Do we think Caufield will step right in and be the 30-goal sniper we're missing if he makes the team next year? Do we think Romanov will be able to be a first-pairing partner for Weber and play 26 minutes a night as a rookie? Is Primeau going to be able to play 25 games and put up a .910 save percentage in that span next year? Any of those things is possible, but is it likely that most/all of those youngsters develop that fast to make us a contender in 2020? Doubtful. By 2021? Maybe, but still on the earlier side. 2022 or 2023 seems more likely as a target for when some of these younger players are true impact guys, if that ever happens at all.

In the meantime, you have Petry, Tatar, Gallagher, and Danault hitting UFA status in 2021. My guess is the Habs will pay big money to keep Gallagher and Danault. Both are hard-working guys with "leadership" and "character" and "grit" and they're guys we're likely going to try hard to keep. But are they going to be able to afford Petry or Tatar? Likely not. And they're going to lose someone to Seattle that year too. If you can protect only 3 D men and you're keeping and protecting Weber, then it means you're exposing at least two of Fleury, Mete, Juulsen, and Chiarot. So maybe you're losing a JChiarot or a Juulsen or a Fleury in the ED. So say we protect Weber, Mete, and Fleury and we lose Chiarot... Without any additions, your 2021 line-up is probably looking a bit like this then:

 

Drouin-Danault-Gallagher

Domi-Suzuki-Caufield

Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Armia

Evans-Poehling-Cousins

 

Romanov-Weber

Mete-Fleury

Kulak-Brook

 

Price

Primeau

 

It's not a horrible line-up going forward, but is that line-up competing for a Cup in 2021-22? I don't see it. Is a 34 year-old Petry going to up our odds enough to be a contender? Doubt it. But if he re-signs a 4 year deal for an AAV of 7.5M, that contract probably hurts us down the line more than it helps.

Now imagine the alternate universe where we trade Weber and Price and Petry this year or next, instead of riding them out for their leadership. What if a team like Colorado sees a Weber as being a piece that can propel them to a Cup this year and gives us Byram and a 1st rounder? What if Edmonton swaps us Evan Bouchard and a 1st rounder for Price? What if the Isles offer an Oliver Wahlstrom for Petry or Florida offers a Henrik Borgstrom? What if Toronto offers us William Nylander for Petry and Lehkonen? I don't think any of these deals would be available to us in two years, but maybe these types of deals are out there for us now... hypotheticals for sure, but take those first three deals as a an example. Now you have a few additional young pieces that help you build towards being a top-tier team in 2022 or 2023. Now you have extra draft capital to help you build to getting there, or maybe you use that draft capital to trade for NHL players to fill out your roster. So put this roster up instead in 2021:

 

Drouin-Danault-Gallagher

Domi-Suzuki-Caufield

Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Wahlstrom

Evans-Poehling-Armia

 

Byram-Bouchard

Romanov-Fleury

Mete-Brook

 

Primeau

Lindgren

 

and that's without additions you can put in with your cash savings or via trading draft capital. Maybe that team isn't winning anything in 2021, but it's got a ton of potential to be elite by 2023. Not just playoff contender but truly elite. Personally, I'd rather see us trying to build a roster like this than to ride out Weber and Petry for another two years and then see them fade away or leave as free agents or retire. We have little to no chance at winning now, so either give yourself a chance of winning now (something MB says isn't happening) or else give yourself a shot at being elite in 3-4 years instead of just average forever.

 

 

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16 hours ago, ChiLla said:

1. Glad he didn't offer any assets for a rental like Hall, who's going to test the UFA waters according to reports anyway.

2. At least he's not delusional and expected us to be contenders with this roster :lol:

3. In isolation, that statement is ridiculous.

4. I'm fine with having Weber, Price, and Petry around, they're great guys to have as far as experience, leadership, and mentoring. The question still is though, are we going to offer Petry an extension? If so, what's that extension going to look like?

   just to jump in as well on your point # 1 ….in the first place there's no guarantee that Hall is going to work into another line-up and he's already had difficulty in New Jersey this year , in the second place if Arizona keeps him and gives up their valuable draft picks next year by signing him they'll still have to hitch their wagon to him long term and pony up somewhere in the neighbourhood of $10 - 11  + million and term if not more just to match other offers , then to your point  maybe Hall won't like Arizona and will go somewhere else ….none of these possible options seems worth the price to pay unless you have an agreement in hand ahead of time ….at least not from Montreal's perspective....I do wonder (as the Habs were talking to Jersey) who they wanted from Montreal in prospects aside from the draft picks...... I have the feeling the name Caulfield came up 

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

My point was that he's more tradeable now than in two years... Tony had stated that the contract wouldn't be an issue to trade because the actual salary was low, but what I was saying was that if you trade him in two years, the low salary definitely helps you to dump him but I don't think it helps the return in a trade that much.

I'll give you a choice:

A. You can acquire 34 year-old Weber today with 6.5 years left on his contract and 2.5-3.5 years of legitimately-salaried years left.

B. You can acquire 36 year-old Weber in 2 years or 37 year-old Weber in 3 years. In 2 years, for example, he'd have 5 years left on his contract but only one year with a salary of 6M, one year after that at 3M, and then a few years at 1M.

Now no one knows what Weber's intentions are. If he's on a Cup contender, maybe he's willing to play for a million a year just to get a shot at winning. Look at Kovalchuk, who was just released and has stated he's willing to sign for minimum wage if a contender takes him on. Maybe Weber plans on retiring in 3 years or in 4 years. Either way, a team is getting a guy who's close to 40 either at a 7.86M cap hit or else they're getting him for a year or two with the thought that he'll retire shortly after they acquire him in a trade, but without a guarantee that will happen. Do I think someone will take him on? Sure. I think he'll still be tradeable. But do I think anyone's giving up a first round draft pick or a quality NHLer or a blue chip prospect in two years? Nope. Might they do it now? I think so. I think you're making the same point as me, in that a team might look at how Weber's done this year and see a guy who can be decent for another couple of years and be willing to ante up today. But in two years?

By keeping, the Habs risk that he has another major injury that slows him down. They risk a drop-off in his level of play that devalues him as a trade commodity. Now if the Habs were a contender this year or next, then it's probably worth it to keep Weber and try to win the Cup. In essence, he's your own veteran acquisition to try and push you to the top. But Bergevin himself has stated we're not a true contender now. He's also pretty blatantly stated several times that he won't trade our top prospects or high draft choices to acquire anyone. So it doesn't look like there's much outside help coming to buoy Weber or Price or Petry's chances of winning a Cup in the next two years. Any major improvement over that time is going to have to come from within the organization. As good as some of our prospects might be, do we think Kotkaniemi or Suzuki is becoming a top-line center by next year? Do we think Caufield will step right in and be the 30-goal sniper we're missing if he makes the team next year? Do we think Romanov will be able to be a first-pairing partner for Weber and play 26 minutes a night as a rookie? Is Primeau going to be able to play 25 games and put up a .910 save percentage in that span next year? Any of those things is possible, but is it likely that most/all of those youngsters develop that fast to make us a contender in 2020? Doubtful. By 2021? Maybe, but still on the earlier side. 2022 or 2023 seems more likely as a target for when some of these younger players are true impact guys, if that ever happens at all.

In the meantime, you have Petry, Tatar, Gallagher, and Danault hitting UFA status in 2021. My guess is the Habs will pay big money to keep Gallagher and Danault. Both are hard-working guys with "leadership" and "character" and "grit" and they're guys we're likely going to try hard to keep. But are they going to be able to afford Petry or Tatar? Likely not. And they're going to lose someone to Seattle that year too. If you can protect only 3 D men and you're keeping and protecting Weber, then it means you're exposing at least two of Fleury, Mete, Juulsen, and Chiarot. So maybe you're losing a JChiarot or a Juulsen or a Fleury in the ED. So say we protect Weber, Mete, and Fleury and we lose Chiarot... Without any additions, your 2021 line-up is probably looking a bit like this then:

 

Drouin-Danault-Gallagher

Domi-Suzuki-Caufield

Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Armia

Evans-Poehling-Cousins

 

Romanov-Weber

Mete-Fleury

Kulak-Brook

 

Price

Primeau

 

It's not a horrible line-up going forward, but is that line-up competing for a Cup in 2021-22? I don't see it. Is a 34 year-old Petry going to up our odds enough to be a contender? Doubt it. But if he re-signs a 4 year deal for an AAV of 7.5M, that contract probably hurts us down the line more than it helps.

Now imagine the alternate universe where we trade Weber and Price and Petry this year or next, instead of riding them out for their leadership. What if a team like Colorado sees a Weber as being a piece that can propel them to a Cup this year and gives us Byram and a 1st rounder? What if Edmonton swaps us Evan Bouchard and a 1st rounder for Price? What if the Isles offer an Oliver Wahlstrom for Petry or Florida offers a Henrik Borgstrom? What if Toronto offers us William Nylander for Petry and Lehkonen? I don't think any of these deals would be available to us in two years, but maybe these types of deals are out there for us now... hypotheticals for sure, but take those first three deals as a an example. Now you have a few additional young pieces that help you build towards being a top-tier team in 2022 or 2023. Now you have extra draft capital to help you build to getting there, or maybe you use that draft capital to trade for NHL players to fill out your roster. So put this roster up instead in 2021:

 

Drouin-Danault-Gallagher

Domi-Suzuki-Caufield

Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Wahlstrom

Evans-Poehling-Armia

 

Byram-Bouchard

Romanov-Fleury

Mete-Brook

 

Primeau

Lindgren

 

and that's without additions you can put in with your cash savings or via trading draft capital. Maybe that team isn't winning anything in 2021, but it's got a ton of potential to be elite by 2023. Not just playoff contender but truly elite. Personally, I'd rather see us trying to build a roster like this than to ride out Weber and Petry for another two years and then see them fade away or leave as free agents or retire. We have little to no chance at winning now, so either give yourself a chance of winning now (something MB says isn't happening) or else give yourself a shot at being elite in 3-4 years instead of just average forever. Of course the idea is you hit homeruns and get the trades you want "Byram" ect. There is also no guarantee Byram , Bouchard will be #1's. It's funny how Habs fans put so much stock in other teams futures but sometimes not as much in ours. Romanov to most hockey writers is going to be a #1 but our fans seem to question our own more than others teams picks. Just because we "feel" players like Weber Petry may bring you a giant haul doesn't mean it would actually happen.

 

 

This team moving forward may be ready sooner than 3-4 years. It all depends on some of our futures and the young ones that are getting to play now. With Caulfield and Romanov hopefully joining the team next year. We could be a contender in 1-2.

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44 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

This team moving forward may be ready sooner than 3-4 years. It all depends on some of our futures and the young ones that are getting to play now. With Caulfield and Romanov hopefully joining the team next year. We could be a contender in 1-2.

I'm getting too old to wait longer than that.

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15 hours ago, arpem-can said:

good road game tonight ..Price on form ..Poehling looked strong on the 4th line ...Cousins scores his 5th ...Suzuki continues to impress and look strong on the puck ….Domi 2 assists ....the whole team showed lots of hustle in a very fast game 

I agree we need a goal or two five on five against the better teams coming up though.

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  so now that we've played Vancouver I thought some comparison stats with Benn and Chiarot were due ...a few people disliked this acquisition and the contract but he's added more than just grit as a replacement and $ 1.5 mill more than Benn    ..atoi Benn 16:49 Chiarot 23:24 ...Benn 0 goals 6 assists = 6pts (-5 ) Chiarot 4 g 7 a = 11 pts ( +8 ) Benn hits 29 Chiarot 89 ...and I liked Benn but Chiarot , though he may not be the LHD saviour people wanted ,  is doing a more than adequate job for the Habs and earning his salary 

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19 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  so now that we've played Vancouver I thought some comparison stats with Benn and Chiarot were due ...a few people disliked this acquisition and the contract but he's added more than just grit as a replacement and $ 1.5 mill more than Benn    ..atoi Benn 16:49 Chiarot 23:24 ...Benn 0 goals 6 assists = 6pts (-5 ) Chiarot 4 g 7 a = 11 pts ( +8 ) Benn hits 29 Chiarot 89 ...and I liked Benn but Chiarot , though he may not be the LHD saviour people wanted ,  is doing a more than adequate job for the Habs and earning his salary 

I agree and think to many get over excited about offensive numbers first when looking at defenseman. Their overall game is much more important to me. I think as he has gotten adjusted to the Habs playing in our system under Jullien and playing with different partners with different styles than what he played with in Winnipeg. He has looked a lot better the last 10 games or so and I think it will continue throughout the rest of the season. He is the type of defenseman we will need in the playoffs when games are tighter and the play is tougher.

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30 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  so now that we've played Vancouver I thought some comparison stats with Benn and Chiarot were due ...a few people disliked this acquisition and the contract but he's added more than just grit as a replacement and $ 1.5 mill more than Benn    ..atoi Benn 16:49 Chiarot 23:24 ...Benn 0 goals 6 assists = 6pts (-5 ) Chiarot 4 g 7 a = 11 pts ( +8 ) Benn hits 29 Chiarot 89 ...and I liked Benn but Chiarot , though he may not be the LHD saviour people wanted ,  is doing a more than adequate job for the Habs and earning his salary 

Count me as someone who wasnt super thrilled about the acquisition (but willing to give him a chance) but then the first few weeks even less sure.

The last few weeks he's been so much better. Very good in fact.    Im still not sure if he's the best choice for our top pairing but you cant argue with what he's been able to do so far.  He and Weber do seem to play pretty well together most of the time (as he did with big Buff) so it will be interesting to see what happens when Mete comes back.   

Chiarot is definitely much better in the top 4 than Benn ever was able to be. 

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29 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  so now that we've played Vancouver I thought some comparison stats with Benn and Chiarot were due ...a few people disliked this acquisition and the contract but he's added more than just grit as a replacement and $ 1.5 mill more than Benn    ..atoi Benn 16:49 Chiarot 23:24 ...Benn 0 goals 6 assists = 6pts (-5 ) Chiarot 4 g 7 a = 11 pts ( +8 ) Benn hits 29 Chiarot 89 ...and I liked Benn but Chiarot , though he may not be the LHD saviour people wanted ,  is doing a more than adequate job for the Habs and earning his salary 

 

5 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I agree and think to many get over excited about offensive numbers first when looking at defenseman. Their overall game is much more important to me. I think as he has gotten adjusted to the Habs playing in our system under Jullien and playing with different partners with different styles than what he played with in Winnipeg. He has looked a lot better the last 10 games or so and I think it will continue throughout the rest of the season. He is the type of defenseman we will need in the playoffs when games are tighter and the play is tougher.

I think the better comparison would be Chariot vs Gardiner. Benn was replaced internally by what we already had. Some members were upset because we passed on Gardiner and seemed to settle on Chariot. So far it's looking like we dodged a bullet IMO.

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48 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

 

I think the better comparison would be Chariot vs Gardiner. Benn was replaced internally by what we already had. Some members were upset because we passed on Gardiner and seemed to settle on Chariot. So far it's looking like we dodged a bullet IMO.

I compared them about 3 weeks ago when Gardiner was - 11 ...he's now - 17 ..Chiarot beats him in just about every statistical category including hits 89 to 28 average toi for Gardiner is about the same as Benn...and then there was always  his suspect back to consider

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45 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

I compared them about 3 weeks ago when Gardiner was - 11 ...he's now - 17 ..Chiarot beats him in just about every statistical category including hits 89 to 28 average toi for Gardiner is about the same as Benn...and then there was always  his suspect back to consider

Yes I recall. Just making the point that he's whom we should be comparing too. Benn was replaced by what we had already

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2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

 

I think the better comparison would be Chariot vs Gardiner. Benn was replaced internally by what we already had. Some members were upset because we passed on Gardiner and seemed to settle on Chariot. So far it's looking like we dodged a bullet IMO.

 

1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

I compared them about 3 weeks ago when Gardiner was - 11 ...he's now - 17 ..Chiarot beats him in just about every statistical category including hits 89 to 28 average toi for Gardiner is about the same as Benn...and then there was always  his suspect back to consider

 

42 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Yes I recall. Just making the point that he's whom we should be comparing too. Benn was replaced by what we had already

The concern i had with the signing is exactly what HTL pointed out: Not that Chiarot was particularly bad, simply that we didnt really need him.  He didnt seem to be that much better than say Reilly, Kulak, or even guys like Leskinen or Olafsson in the minors. So far he's shown me that he's better.  Now you can argue that some of those guys havent had enough of a chance but i think its fair to say that Chiarot has made the most of his opportunities. 

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14 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Will we have any players at the WJC this year?

If we do, they won't be playing for Canada. I only seen the invitees for Canada, and there were no draft picks for the Habs on the list. I do believe that Caulfield was invited to play for the U.S. tho.

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On Chiarot, I agree with Jedi... I wasn't thrilled about the signing and I thought he played poorly to start the year, but he's definitely come into his own in the past 3 weeks. I still think he's been exposed against some of the faster teams, but overall, he's been better for us than Benn was last year. If I was going to compare the two, I'd say

- Skating: Chiarot better

- Passing: Chiarot better

- Shot: Benn better

- PK: Benn better

- Positioning: Chiarot better

 

The big question for me is whether Chiarot is a viable top 4 option going forward, and I'm still not convinced that he is. Yes, he's played big minutes and handled himself well in the past few weeks and Chiarot-Weber is working. I'm just not sure whether that's because Chiarot is helping out Weber more than Mete did or because Weber himself is healthier and playing lights out or both. Chiarot is still not a fantastic puck-moving defenceman and even though he's had a couple of nice pinches, he's also not an offensive D man, which is something the Habs are lacking on the left side. His PK work, along with that of Weber and Danault, has also been largely atrocious. Those are three guys who should be better on the PK and have been extremely bad there this season.

So yes, I'm reasonably happy and pleasantly surprised with what Chiarot has brought for us the past few weeks and I'm more sold on his being an NHLer and being able to help us for the next couple of years. But I'm still not convinced that on a Cup contender, he's more than a #5 D man. I also still wouldn't protect him in the expansion draft ahead of any of Weber, Fleury, Juulsen, or Mete. I think we still need a bit more time to see how this will play out but agree with people that his play has at least been encouraging of late.

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10 hours ago, arpem-can said:

I compared them about 3 weeks ago when Gardiner was - 11 ...he's now - 17 ..Chiarot beats him in just about every statistical category including hits 89 to 28 average toi for Gardiner is about the same as Benn...and then there was always  his suspect back to consider

while we're at it how about Weber /Subban comparison this year ?.this a stunning difference  Weber in 35 games 11 goals 18 assists =29 pts and a +13 , Subby 33games 2 goals 3 assists =5pts and is -13 ...Weber 16pims Subban 40 pims  Webber atoi over 24mins   Subban 22:27  shooting % Weber 10.7 Subby 2.7   Weber 56 hits Subby 40 ...still mad about the trade ? 

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On 12/20/2019 at 0:32 AM, arpem-can said:

while we're at it how about Weber /Subban comparison this year ?.this a stunning difference  Weber in 35 games 11 goals 18 assists =29 pts and a +13 , Subby 33games 2 goals 3 assists =5pts and is -13 ...Weber 16pims Subban 40 pims  Webber atoi over 24mins   Subban 22:27  shooting % Weber 10.7 Subby 2.7   Weber 56 hits Subby 40 ...still mad about the trade ? 

Yep it is sad. Webber seems to be getting better with age and a non smurf partner and Subban can't seem to find a steady partner or his game in Jersey. i still think Subban is spending way too much time on his off ice interests rather than the game that made him a star and pays him 9 mil a year!

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