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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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22 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

and at this point last year St. Louis was the worst team in the league?

 

 

4 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

St Louis despite being the worst team still had a far better lineup than we do.   Even if you argue they have a similar talent level ... are you really saying "lets just luck out and ride the hot streak of a rookie goalie to a cup" is the best plan?

Yes, St. Louis made a great comeback BUT

1. That's a pretty unusual exception to the rule. The reason it was such a story was because a team coming back from the bottom of the standings happens almost never.

2. As HasbAlways stated, our line-up and St. Louis' line-up last year are not on the same page. Stl had better scorers and a better defence than we did, and they were largely under-performing to start the year. Many people think the coaching change really lit a fire under those players and straightened things out. In our case, our best players are probably already playing close to what we could reasonably expect of their ceilings: Drouin was having a stellar year before his injury; Domi is about where he was last year; Tatar, Danault, and Gallagher are all on pace for career years or thereabouts; Weber is having a renaissance year; Chiarot is playing the best hockey of his career; Mete is finally producing a little bit; Petry is producing at about his usual pace; Suzuki has out-performed expectations, as has Armia; Lehkonen's having his best year in several seasons. Maybe we can squeeze a bit more out of Kotkaniemi, maybe Byron can turn his season around after he comes back. But other than that, there really isn't anyone I'm looking at among position players who is going to suddenly give us more than what they already have to any significant degree.

 

So going forward, what is going to make this team better than where we are now as a middling lottery squad? There are three things:

1. We could acquire help. Bergevin has tinkered in the past couple of days, but he's flat out stated he won't sacrifice picks or prospects for immediate help. So this isn't likely to happen.

2. We could have some better luck with injuries. But here, we know Drouin, Armia, and Byron are all out at least until the end of January. There's no timeline for Gallagher, and he's been in the line-up all season until last game anyways. So in the next 10 games or so, our line-up will continue to be injury-depleted and dependent on the likes of Weal Cousins, Thompson, Vejdemo, and so on to play roles.

3. Price has to play way better than he is now.

We are playing at an 84-point pace right now. So if we want to play at a 96 or 98 point pace, we'd have to bank about 54-56 points in our remaining 41 games. That's 28-13. Or 25-10-6. Are we a team that's going to play 15 games above .500 in a half season? And that's just to squeak into the playoffs. At present, most probability machines have our playoff odds at about 10-15%. Now tack on that we are going to be missing some of our top forwards for another 8-10 games. Let's say we play .500 hockey over that span without those guys. So then we would need to something like 23-8 to end the year. Yeah, this is all hypothetical, but those numbers are pretty realistic expectations of what it could take to just make the playoffs, never mind win the Cup.

Is it impossible? No. But the odds of our winning the Cup right now are estimated to be under 1%. Is it worth it to keep forcing towards that? IMO, it's not. I'd rather see us trade away a few vets and get players who can help us down the line. Play the young guys, get them experience. It doesn't mean one hates the team to think this is the right thing. It just means one's trying to see the long game and what's best in the big picture of things.

An analogy if you will... you're in a poker game and you're holding bad cards. The odds of winning the hand are under 1%. Do you throw all your money in on the offhand you might win or force someone else out of the hand and improve your odds to 5% or 10%, but knowing that the move likely costs you in the big picture of things? Or do you fold and live to see another day? To boot, what if someone told you that if you fold, you'll get a bonus amount of money to be able to use in the next game? Yeah, you may want to be in the game and feel like you have a chance of winning, but it's not the smart move.

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2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

if it is that bad perhaps you need to find another team? seems like you like St Louis?

I don't think that he was saying he likes St. Louis or that he wants to watch any other team I think he is more saying that 20 years of just making the playoffs or not making them at all is wearing thin to him. We all have different opinions and like to share them with others here but each and everyone of us are Habs fans some of us longer than others but we are Habs fans none the less to the end.

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

so it shouldnt bother me that they stink? I should just be happy?

I get how frustrating it can be watching and hoping year after year that we get better and while you have a point that we need help I don't believe we stink as you put it. The majority of the losses this year have been 1 goal games that to me translates to we are better than we are getting credit for. On paper sure Tampa, Toronto, Boston and Colorado are better than us but look back through the records how many presidents trophy winners have won the cup in the same year and how many hardwe working teams that barely make it in go on a good run cause they play the team game. I think you may be pleasantly surprised at the results. Would I like to add a Hall or Wierenski or Klefblom sure but we are severely underrated as well. Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Price all above average players. Domi, Suzuki, Mete, Fluery and KK coming into their own. You may actually be surprised where we finish this year but even if it is just outside you always have to enjoy the ride.

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42 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

An analogy if you will... you're in a poker game and you're holding bad cards. The odds of winning the hand are under 1%. Do you throw all your money in on the offhand you might win or force someone else out of the hand and improve your odds to 5% or 10%, but knowing that the move likely costs you in the big picture of things? Or do you fold and live to see another day? To boot, what if someone told you that if you fold, you'll get a bonus amount of money to be able to use in the next game? Yeah, you may want to be in the game and feel like you have a chance of winning, but it's not the smart move.

I really like your analogy but would counter it with this one.

Your child wants to be a brain surgeon and is barely passing med school do you A. Tell them that only hard work and determination can help them achieve their goals 

Or 

B. Tell them that while brain surgery is an exciting career path maybe they should focus on being a general practitioner cause they just don't have the grades and focus of a brain surgeon. 

Me I go with A every time. Push them help them see what it takes and watch them achieve their dreams. That's what we are talking about here is achieving every hockey players dreams winning the Stanley Cup.

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

no one ever said that? 

well the implication with what you did say is that if I am so upset by the state of the team that I should pick another team, that i should choose another team to root for, which inplies that I should NOT be upset about the state of the team if I were a real fan. 

ram is a good poster and a fun guy on the forum. Me to you, lets not beef. I'm just frustrated with the half measures. there are some really fun prospects in this group , and guys like tatar and suzuki and weber are having good years points wise. we have a decent team. 

that being said, I am tired of decent. I want to win.  as I see it, we have some good vets and some good prospects, but by all indication the timelines are not going to match up. put simply, it looks very clear that our 2 generations of talent are not going to line up in terms of competitive impact, and that frustrates me because the ceiling of our success seems to be 8th place forever and ever amen, and its been that way for years. 

this team is not good enough to win. I want a clear commitment to either win now or win later, not sort of do ok for the time being and see what happens as it ever was.

 

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8 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I really like your analogy but would counter it with this one.

Your child wants to be a brain surgeon and is barely passing med school do you A. Tell them that only hard work and determination can help them achieve their goals 

Or 

B. Tell them that while brain surgery is an exciting career path maybe they should focus on being a general practitioner cause they just don't have the grades and focus of a brain surgeon. 

Me I go with A every time. Push them help them see what it takes and watch them achieve their dreams. That's what we are talking about here is achieving every hockey players dreams winning the Stanley Cup.

Here's the major difference though: if you're going to try and be a brain surgeon and you are failing one year, trying hard and doing your best helps you now AND helps you down the line as well. In the Habs' case, however, holding onto Weber and Petry and Byron and Tatar might increase their success this year but it might actually hurt them down the line. They don't get as good a draft pick this year perhaps and more importantly, you don't get the same assets coming back in trades. Let's say you could trade all four of those guys this year and get back 3 first round picks, 2 blue chip prospects (like a Bowen Byram or so on), and 4 mid-level prospects with a chance at being NHLers. That's a nice haul to compensate for losing those players. And let's say your 1st round pick in the next draft is 3rd overall instead of being 14th overall. Maybe with your increased lottery odds, you even snag Lafreniere.

So yeah, I'm all for trying hard and competing and I'm not saying we should tell players to slack off. We should be asking the players we retain to play as hard a they can and to want to win. But I don't see the point now in keeping guys who won't be helpful to us past next season. Unlike your analogy, this isn't a question between hard work vs. not hard work. It's a question of cutting your losses and accepting some short-term pain IN EXCHANGE for long-term gain.

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50 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Here's the major difference though: if you're going to try and be a brain surgeon and you are failing one year, trying hard and doing your best helps you now AND helps you down the line as well. In the Habs' case, however, holding onto Weber and Petry and Byron and Tatar might increase their success this year but it might actually hurt them down the line. They don't get as good a draft pick this year perhaps and more importantly, you don't get the same assets coming back in trades. Let's say you could trade all four of those guys this year and get back 3 first round picks, 2 blue chip prospects (like a Bowen Byram or so on), and 4 mid-level prospects with a chance at being NHLers. That's a nice haul to compensate for losing those players. And let's say your 1st round pick in the next draft is 3rd overall instead of being 14th overall. Maybe with your increased lottery odds, you even snag Lafreniere.

So yeah, I'm all for trying hard and competing and I'm not saying we should tell players to slack off. We should be asking the players we retain to play as hard a they can and to want to win. But I don't see the point now in keeping guys who won't be helpful to us past next season. Unlike your analogy, this isn't a question between hard work vs. not hard work. It's a question of cutting your losses and accepting some short-term pain IN EXCHANGE for long-term gain.

So let's say you trade those 4 without subbing players coming back in the trade in you still line up 

Lehkonen-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Domi-Suzuki

Cousins-Kotkaniemi-Kovalchuk

Weal-Thompson-Armia

Chiarot-Brook

Mete-Fluery

Scandella-Folin

Price

Lindgren

That's basically the lineup we already have our biggest loss is the RHD hole you now created but the lineup would probably still be middle of the pack so your still not in the Lafrenier lottery or any other lottery for those 3 1st's you got back. So the best thing you got for those 4 is 2 blue chip prospects who may never work out and 4 mid level prospects who probably don't work out. That GM would be fired if I am Molson for not getting back at least 2 roster players.

 

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17 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

So yeah, I'm all for trying hard and competing and I'm not saying we should tell players to slack off. We should be asking the players we retain to play as hard a they can and to want to win. But I don't see the point now in keeping guys who won't be helpful to us past next season. Unlike your analogy, this isn't a question between hard work vs. not hard work. It's a question of cutting your losses and accepting some short-term pain IN EXCHANGE for long-term gain.

Especially when the short-term pain is already there anyway... If we don't make it this season, which it looks like, it's 3 years without a playoff appearance and 1 playoff appearance in the past 5 years (with a completely underwhelming first-round exit).

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15 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Especially when the short-term pain is already there anyway... If we don't make it this season, which it looks like, it's 3 years without a playoff appearance and 1 playoff appearance in the past 5 years (with a completely underwhelming first-round exit).

But do you honestly think that trading those 4 makes us bad enough over the next 3 years to get a lottery pick using just the lineup listed above? I don't! Sure you lose a 20 goal scorer and our 2 top RHD and now you want MB to fill 3 of the top 4 D positions with how well he has managed to fill one, No thanks! Use the assets we have to get what we need! Someone once said to me assets are only valuable when they are sold you don't get anything from a coin collection sitting in your basement except a lot of unused metal. What is the sense in getting all those draft picks and prospects over the last 3 years if we aren't going to use them to make the team better? You never really know which pick is going to work out so trade for a guy you know has already worked out. Use your strengths to fill your weaknesses not create more weaknesses and still be a middle of the pack team.

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34 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

So let's say you trade those 4 without subbing players coming back in the trade in you still line up 

Lehkonen-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Domi-Suzuki

Cousins-Kotkaniemi-Kovalchuk

Weal-Thompson-Armia

Chiarot-Brook

Mete-Fluery

Scandella-Folin

Price

Lindgren

That's basically the lineup we already have our biggest loss is the RHD hole you now created but the lineup would probably still be middle of the pack so your still not in the Lafrenier lottery or any other lottery for those 3 1st's you got back. So the best thing you got for those 4 is 2 blue chip prospects who may never work out and 4 mid level prospects who probably don't work out. That GM would be fired if I am Molson for not getting back at least 2 roster players.

 

Here are my thoughts:

1. Drouin and Armia are already out and not back for several weeks, so the line-up would actually be weaker than this.

2. The D is not strong at all. Look at how badly the D plays now with Weber and Petry. It would be ten times worse with Folin and Brook in their place. And my feeling is that even if this team continued to score some goals, we would not be that strong at keeping the puck out of our own net.

3. Price is still there and he has been bad this season. We know he's packed it in before and frankly he may well feel like he has nothing to play for in a lost season.

That being said, I'll reiterate that the purpose of trading those veterans away would be to get assets back while our players still have value. Petry and Tatar are UFA's in 2 years, so we could lose them for nothing. Weber's value will go down with time. No sense in seeing their value depreciate on a team that isn't going anywhere. Second, your lineup illustrates that you could get some younger players more experience. Suzuki and Kotkaniemi and Poehling could get more ice time and more PP time. I'd probably recall Jake Evans too, who has been tearing up the AHL of late. Give Brook a chance to quarterback the PP. Give Fleury 20 minutes a night and a chance to play the 1st wave of the PK. Give Lehkonen and Danault and Gallagher a chance to be the leaders on the team. Give one of Lindgren or Primeau 15 games the rest of the way, so you don't run down Price and so you get another guy game experience. Give McCarron one last chance to see if he has anything at the NHL level. There are benefits to giving your youngsters exposure in games where the stakes are lower and there's less pressure.

As for the draft, my feeling is still that your odds of a better pick are higher if you trade away a few vets than if you don't. Maybe right now we project to finish with the 12th or 14th overall pick. Maybe if we trade the vets we project to have the 4th or 6th overall pick. But that's still significantly more important and our odds of winning a lottery spot go up. If our chances of picking top 3 are 20%, that's still better than a 3% chance. The alternative strategy of staying the course now means we're pushing for minimal gains in exchange for losing opportunity down the line.

And if it comes down to it and you acquire future 1st rounders or prospects, you always have the option of flipping them later for other assets. If you take Colorado for example, they made some of those trades to acquire future assets and they're now one of the best-positioned teams to take a run at a Cup. They could easily turn around now and flip a Byram or a 1st rounder to acquire a key player to put them over the top. So if we were to trade Tatar for a 1st rounder and a prospect, there's nothing to stop us from trading one of those assets at the draft or next season to go after another player.

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2 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

But do you honestly think that trading those 4 makes us bad enough over the next 3 years to get a lottery pick using just the lineup listed above? I don't! Sure you lose a 20 goal scorer and our 2 top RHD and now you want MB to fill 3 of the top 4 D positions with how well he has managed to fill one, No thanks! Use the assets we have to get what we need! Someone once said to me assets are only valuable when they are sold you don't get anything from a coin collection sitting in your basement except a lot of unused metal. What is the sense in getting all those draft picks and prospects over the last 3 years if we aren't going to use them to make the team better? You never really know which pick is going to work out so trade for a guy you know has already worked out. Use your strengths to fill your weaknesses not create more weaknesses and still be a middle of the pack team.

With a defense of Chiarot/Brook, Mete/Fleury, and Scandella/Folin, I'm pretty certain a bottom 5 finish is a very realistic possibility even this season. I've never suggested trading those 4 guys you mentioned though, so let's not do this again. I've said repeatedly that I like the direction of the team and that I think we have good pieces in place already. I don't want this team to lose games deliberately so we get a higher draft pick, which doesn't really happen in pro sports anyway. My point is that it makes sense to consider moving on from a guy like Petry or Tatar while they're still valuable. And I'm not talking about swapping them for future considerations or magic beans but using the Pacioretty deal as a model, i.e. roster player + legit NHL prospect + draft pick to strategically improve the team.

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9 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

no one ever said that? 

But tanking will make sure we don't have a shot at the playoffs and still may never work out ! Tanking is a long shot also or Buffalo Arizona ect would be having Parades every year by now and that's not even mentioning how long Edmonton sucked with how many #1 picks , which will probably never happen again due to the lottery system now. So you don't have to be happy now , but you will be happy hoping and wishing while watching a team that will suck if you blow it up with no sure thing it will ever get better? At least now we actually see progression and the jumps that some players are having this season , I think things mat turn around quicker than expected and Weber Price Petry ect. can all be part of it. Hopefully JK can have a strong second half , Suzuki is already moving in that direction Poehling is looking better every game Domi is getting better.

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Just to chime in on the should we/shouldn't we trade some veteran players discussion:

Shea Weber's value as a Montreal player might never be greater than it is now. I feel like that's when you want to trade someone. At peak value before the decline hits. Weber to... Colorado... makes them the immediate Cup favorite, IMO. I also think there would be plenty of takers for Price. I don't think he's not a top goaltender anymore, but I believe other GMs might still see him as a franchise goalie. It's just a question of if he would consider waiving his no movement clause. Might be possible, might not be.

I don't think Bergevin is going to ever get this team over the hump. So... hanging on to everyone hoping he can somehow make all the right moves to make us a contender seems fruitless.

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5 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

But tanking will make sure we don't have a shot at the playoffs and still may never work out ! Tanking is a long shot also or Buffalo Arizona ect would be having Parades every year by now and that's not even mentioning how long Edmonton sucked with how many #1 picks , which will probably never happen again due to the lottery system now. So you don't have to be happy now , but you will be happy hoping and wishing while watching a team that will suck if you blow it up with no sure thing it will ever get better? At least now we actually see progression and the jumps that some players are having this season , I think things mat turn around quicker than expected and Weber Price Petry ect. can all be part of it. Hopefully JK can have a strong second half , Suzuki is already moving in that direction Poehling is looking better every game Domi is getting better.

thats the MB kool aid right there

currently, if domi were to get back to where he was , that is ONE 70 point player. 

JK could have a strong 2nd half, being what? 20 pts? suzuki is having a nice little rookie season and certainly looks like he has a high ceiling, but despite being the biggest and quickest and highest impact prospect we have, we are still talking maybe 40-50 pts. poehling I think is still sitting at zero...

these kids are not showing indications of being guys who are stepping in and just becoming first liners within 2 years. suzuki looks like he could be a first liner maybe within 2 or 3 years, the others, somewhere down the line. somewhere down the line you want to bank on weber having a career year offensively at 36? petry being resigned to big money? price is gonna be better than ever at 35?

the day these kids are running the team and playing the key roles is when we can start taking them seriously, and if that happens while we have the vets that we have thats great, but every indication so far is that those 2 things are not going to line up.

 so its awesome that you think things will turn around quicker than expected, but I dont think that hope has much basis in reality

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2 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Just to chime in on the should we/shouldn't we trade some veteran players discussion:

Shea Weber's value as a Montreal player might never be greater than it is now. I feel like that's when you want to trade someone. At peak value before the decline hits. Weber to... Colorado makes them the immediate Cup favorite, IMO. I also think there would be plenty of takers for Price. I don't think he's not a top goaltender anymore, but I believe other GMs might still see him as a franchise goalie. It's just a question of if he would consider waiving his no movement clause. Might be possible, might not be.

I don't think Bergevin is going to ever get this team over the hump. So... hanging on to everyone hoping he can somehow make all the right moves to make us a contender seems fruitless.

I will say this, I think it's to early still , I think if by the trade deadline we don't have a shot a making the playoffs than you could look at things again. If we did wait at least until then we wouldn't be sending the message of giving up. As for high value , I guess we did great with the Subban trade then! I wonder if Edmonton doesn't make the playoffs or get eliminated in the first round do they trade McDavid or Draisital while the value is high? Here's a thought would you trade McDavid for next years #1 overall if you could either way give up #1 for McDavid?

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14 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Just to chime in on the should we/shouldn't we trade some veteran players discussion:

Shea Weber's value as a Montreal player might never be greater than it is now. I feel like that's when you want to trade someone. At peak value before the decline hits. Weber to... Colorado... makes them the immediate Cup favorite, IMO. I also think there would be plenty of takers for Price. I don't think he's not a top goaltender anymore, but I believe other GMs might still see him as a franchise goalie. It's just a question of if he would consider waiving his no movement clause. Might be possible, might not be.

I don't think Bergevin is going to ever get this team over the hump. So... hanging on to everyone hoping he can somehow make all the right moves to make us a contender seems fruitless.

this is an exact repeat of the pacioretty situation

1. we are not winning with him right now

2. by the time we might be able to win something his value will be at best not nearly what it is now

3. what we could conceivably get with perceived value peaking would help our team immediately, just like trading pacioretty did. and if we had traded him the year before coming off a big season, what would we have got!?

I mean again, use the patches trade as a thought experiment. its not trading weber for some magic beans. imagine its for a guy who can replace him in the lineup, plus a great prospect who could be with the team and doing something significant by next year, plus a good draft pick. 

price has the NMT but I feel the exact same way about him too

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13 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I will say this, I think it's to early still , I think if by the trade deadline we don't have a shot a making the playoffs than you could look at things again. If we did wait at least until then we wouldn't be sending the message of giving up. As for high value , I guess we did great with the Subban trade then! I wonder if Edmonton doesn't make the playoffs or get eliminated in the first round do they trade McDavid or Draisital while the value is high? Here's a thought would you trade McDavid for next years #1 overall if you could either way give up #1 for McDavid?

1. why are you so satisfied with sneaking into the playoffs as if thats a big accomplishment

2. are you equating weber to mcdavid and or draisatl?

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

thats the MB kool aid right there

currently, if domi were to get back to where he was , that is ONE 70 point player. 

JK could have a strong 2nd half, being what? 20 pts? suzuki is having a nice little rookie season and certainly looks like he has a high ceiling, but despite being the biggest and quickest and highest impact prospect we have, we are still talking maybe 40-50 pts. poehling I think is still sitting at zero...

these kids are not showing indications of being guys who are stepping in and just becoming first liners within 2 years. suzuki looks like he could be a first liner maybe within 2 or 3 years, the others, somewhere down the line. somewhere down the line you want to bank on weber having a career year offensively at 36? petry being resigned to big money? price is gonna be better than ever at 35?

the day these kids are running the team and playing the key roles is when we can start taking them seriously, and if that happens while we have the vets that we have thats great, but every indication so far is that those 2 things are not going to line up.

 so its awesome that you think things will turn around quicker than expected, but I dont think that hope has much basis in reality

This is exactly how I feel.    What's the benefit of sneaking into the playoffs this year when the vets we have won't be part of the future anyways?    Our top prospects are Suzuki, JK, Poehling, Caufield, Romanov, Brook ... those guys won't be running this team for another 2-4 years.     Weber/Petry/Price and others will no longer be competitive by then. 

Holding onto our vets right now really only helps up this year and possibly next ... to what end?  to squeak into the playoffs and make it nowhere.    Trading them now gets us assets that would be maturing around the same time our current young core are as well.   Keeping them has us tied to assets that are declining when our young core matures .. and we won't get the same return.

Imagine if we finished bottom 10 and won the lottery.   Imagine Lafreniere - Kotkaniemi - Suzuki as your first line.

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1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

I will say this, I think it's to early still , I think if by the trade deadline we don't have a shot a making the playoffs than you could look at things again. If we did wait at least until then we wouldn't be sending the message of giving up. As for high value , I guess we did great with the Subban trade then! I wonder if Edmonton doesn't make the playoffs or get eliminated in the first round do they trade McDavid or Draisital while the value is high? Here's a thought would you trade McDavid for next years #1 overall if you could either way give up #1 for McDavid?

Putting McDavid/Draisital in the same category as Weber is ... interesting.      Two of the best forwards in the game who are under 25 vs Weber who is 34.     

Having said that,  I think you wait till the trade deadline ... and regardless of your spot in the standings you start looking at the future.   Squeaking into playoffs to enjoy a quick exit is not a realistic plan.    Loading up on prospects and picks that will potentially round out the already growing core of young players we have is a far better one.

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I for one would be interested to know what we could get for Price and Webber and more so for me Petry the reason i see Petry being a better trade is age and cost for the other team. i really don't think you would get any takers on Price or Webber they are not cheap and just giving them away to make a change is silly as they are both still very good so i see this as just venting really as it will not happen. Petry on the other hand could get us a good forward and perhaps a pick or prospect if we bundle him with someone or a pick. but then who replaces him?

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1 minute ago, ramcharger440 said:

I for one would be interested to know what we could get for Price and Webber and more so for me Petry the reason i see Petry being a better trade is age and cost for the other team. i really don't think you would get any takers on Price or Webber they are not cheap and just giving them away to make a change is silly as they are both still very good so i see this as just venting really as it will not happen. Petry on the other hand could get us a good forward and perhaps a pick or prospect if we bundle him with someone or a pick. but then who replaces him?

Not that i'm advocating for a trade, but I see Weber having value to one of those budget teams looking to get to the Cap floor because he starts to actually earn less money then his hit. Price would be difficult finding a team with both Cap space and contending status. I can't see Price waiving his NTC to go to a non playoff team.

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Just now, H_T_L said:

Not that i'm advocating for a trade, but I see Weber having value to one of those budget teams looking to get to the Cap floor because he starts to actually earn less money then his hit. Price would be difficult finding a team with both Cap space and contending status. I can't see Price waiving his NTC to go to a non playoff team.

I suppose you never know he does have a stellar reputation....must all be a mirage though we should just dump him. LOL! i just don't see us getting enough to make it worth the hole it will create.

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Hypothetically-speaking, let's say the Habs could do the following:

- Price to Colorado for Grubauer, Byram, and a 2nd.

- Weber to Edmonton for Evan Bouchard and a 1st.

- Tatar and a 3rd to NYI for Oliver Wahlstrom and a 1st.

- Petry and Byron to Florida for Henrik Borgstrom and a 1st.

Now you've added two blue chip D men prospects, two blue chip forward prospects, three 1st's, and a 2nd. Next year, you could field a line-up that looks like this:

 

Drouin-Domi-Suzuki

Caufield-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Danault-Armia

Poehling-Borgstrom-Wahlstrom

 

Byram-Bouchard

Mete-Fleury

Scandella-Brook

 

Grubauer

Primeau

 

And you would still have the option of adding in Evans, Ylonen, Chiarot, Romanov, and maybe Juulsen somewhere and making further trades with your extra players. You'd also have the option of dealing away the picks you acquired to add more quality. And as a bonus, the roster is largely expansion-draft proof, as I don't believe you'd need to protect any of Kotkaniemi, Caufield, Wahlstrom, Byram, Bouchard, Brook, or Primeau. Would that defence need time to mature? Yes. But this could be a Cup-competitive team by 2022 or 2023 IMO. Personally, I'd prefer doing something like this to sticking it out with what we have.

 

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8 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

I suppose you never know he does have a stellar reputation....must all be a mirage though we should just dump him. LOL! i just don't see us getting enough to make it worth the hole it will create.

I wouldn't dump him just for the sake of it. We need to get value as far as i'm concerned and that starts with at least a 1st rounder and an A prospect, plus. Anything less and it's a big NO for me. That ask obviously drops as the years go by, but that's what it would take to satisfy me this year. I would prefer we make a GM move before considering moving out some vets. I have zero confidence MB is capable. He's in save his job mode right now.

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