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2020 NHL Draft

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I would agree with this... odds are higher that we don't get a top-5 pick unless we win one of the lottery spots. You look at teams like Detroit, LA, Anaheim, Ottawa, etc. and it's hard to see them finishing ahead of us in the long run. Add Drouin, Armia, and Gallagher back to the mix of players we have, and we'll probably be a .500 to .520 hockey team post-ASG, which maybe gives you a 6-12 pick like you said. That's no man's land in terms of your plan long-term. Picking there means you're not good now, nor are you adding an impact player to chance your franchise long run. For me, it's another reason why it makes sense to trade, say, Tatar and at least one of Weber or Petry by the end of January.

Yup that's exactly my thoughts ... if we stay the course, we're picking in the 8-16 range and while getting a good player, we're not getting an impact player.

My thoughts are the following players will fetch us 1st or 2nds this year, in one of the best drafts in the last decade :

Weber

Petry

Drouin

Tatar

Price

You hold onto Danault, Gallagher as leaders.    Everyone else is young enough to have value and play a role going forward.    But by trading most or all of those 5 players, you get back picks that you hopefully turn into the nucleus of a great roster.   You most likely finish lower in the standings this year ... increasing your draft lottery odds but also getting a better pick.

Again, its not about intentionally losing ... its about looking to the future.

And I watch the Habs WIN or LOSE.    If they're struggling, I'm watching them to see the young guns grow ... like Suzuki who dominated last night and JK who seems to be slowly getting back in the groove.      We got a lot of young players to look forward to, so even if they're losing I enjoy watching those guys find their game.

Edited by HabsAlways
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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

Yup that's exactly my thoughts ... if we stay the course, we're picking in the 8-16 range and while getting a good player, we're not getting an impact player.

My thoughts are the following players will fetch us 1st or 2nds this year, in one of the best drafts in the last decade :

Weber

Petry

Drouin

Tatar

Price

You hold onto Danault, Gallagher as leaders.    Everyone else is young enough to have value and play a role going forward.    But by trading most or all of those 5 players, you get back picks that you hopefully turn into the nucleus of a great roster.   You most likely finish lower in the standings this year ... increasing your draft lottery odds but also getting a better pick.

Again, its not about intentionally losing ... its about looking to the future.

And I watch the Habs WIN or LOSE.    If they're struggling, I'm watching them to see the young guns grow ... like Suzuki who dominated last night and JK who seems to be slowly getting back in the groove.      We got a lot of young players to look forward to, so even if they're losing I enjoy watching those guys find their game.

Even if we trade those 5 guys we probably end the year in the same 6-16 spots no way we lose enough to get last from Detroit even passing the likes of New Jersey, Ottawa, Los Angeles, Anaheim and Chicago would be difficult so trading those 5 players while bringing back additional later picks doesn't improve our own pick significantly enough to be worth it. Also what if the guys who you bring up prove to be equal to the task of those 5 then you still finish in 16th or even just squeak into the playoffs and again it's all for not.

No-one was questioning anyone's love of the Habs. We were just pointing out that if they line up with

Peca, Thompson, Wiese, Cousins, Hudon, Weal and Alzner in the lineup and therefore all but admit to tanking on purpose for a better pick not many people would be watching the games. Also I believe there is rules preventing teams from internally losing to get a better draft position anyway and I believe the penalty is the loss of your 1st round selection.

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17 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Even if we trade those 5 guys we probably end the year in the same 6-16 spots no way we lose enough to get last from Detroit even passing the likes of New Jersey, Ottawa, Los Angeles, Anaheim and Chicago would be difficult so trading those 5 players while bringing back additional later picks doesn't improve our own pick significantly enough to be worth it. Also what if the guys who you bring up prove to be equal to the task of those 5 then you still finish in 16th or even just squeak into the playoffs and again it's all for not.

No-one was questioning anyone's love of the Habs. We were just pointing out that if they line up with

Peca, Thompson, Wiese, Cousins, Hudon, Weal and Alzner in the lineup and therefore all but admit to tanking on purpose for a better pick not many people would be watching the games. Also I believe there is rules preventing teams from internally losing to get a better draft position anyway and I believe the penalty is the loss of your 1st round selection.

If the young guns take over and we still finish 6-16th then good ... that's development time that should prep them to be even better next year.   Its the whole concept of just being good enough to make the playoffs that's the problem.   Those are the moves Bergevin, and for the most part the team for the past 30 years, has made.   

As I said in another thread ... how happy would you be if MB trades sombody like Suzuki, Poehling, Kotkaniemi or another one of our better prospects to make the playoffs this year and we still wind up missing them?   I see zero benefit to "staying the course" at this point ... MB has to realize we are missing the playoffs and that this goes beyond just "a few injuries".   The roster simply isn't good enough and you're not going to fix that finishing in the middle of the pack year after year.

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25 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

If the young guns take over and we still finish 6-16th then good ... that's development time that should prep them to be even better next year.   Its the whole concept of just being good enough to make the playoffs that's the problem.   Those are the moves Bergevin, and for the most part the team for the past 30 years, has made.   

As I said in another thread ... how happy would you be if MB trades sombody like Suzuki, Poehling, Kotkaniemi or another one of our better prospects to make the playoffs this year and we still wind up missing them?   I see zero benefit to "staying the course" at this point ... MB has to realize we are missing the playoffs and that this goes beyond just "a few injuries".   The roster simply isn't good enough and you're not going to fix that finishing in the middle of the pack year after year.

I would definitely trade Poehling for help but not Kotkaniemi or Suzuki as they are very good prospects. Poehling on the other hand is only projected to be a bottom 6 guys so a guy I would definitly trade for help. I am a person who believes in integrity above all else and tanking either from the top or from the players themselves would be cause for me to find another team to cheer for. It's an insult to the fans players league and team and one I personally can't support that type of team.

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54 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Even if we trade those 5 guys we probably end the year in the same 6-16 spots no way we lose enough to get last from Detroit even passing the likes of New Jersey, Ottawa, Los Angeles, Anaheim and Chicago would be difficult so trading those 5 players while bringing back additional later picks doesn't improve our own pick significantly enough to be worth it. Also what if the guys who you bring up prove to be equal to the task of those 5 then you still finish in 16th or even just squeak into the playoffs and again it's all for not.

No-one was questioning anyone's love of the Habs. We were just pointing out that if they line up with

Peca, Thompson, Wiese, Cousins, Hudon, Weal and Alzner in the lineup and therefore all but admit to tanking on purpose for a better pick not many people would be watching the games. Also I believe there is rules preventing teams from internally losing to get a better draft position anyway and I believe the penalty is the loss of your 1st round selection.

So I have been searching and it actually appears like there is not a rule to prevent tanking intentionally although IMHO there should be. 

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6 hours ago, campabee82 said:

So I have been searching and it actually appears like there is not a rule to prevent tanking intentionally although IMHO there should be. 

There would most certainly be serious repercussions if a team was found to be throwing games which is why the term 'rebuilding' is used in place of tanking. 

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So now we know that we will be entering the draft anywhere from 5th-9th place. If we won the lottery and somehow managed to get the 1st OVA pick would it be too much of an insult to the fan base if the Habs passed on Lafreniere and selected Byfield? Just looking at his profile he is 6'4" weighs 214lbs has 82 points and is a full year younger playing in traditionally a tougher league. I must admit I don't know much about either kid but why not take Byfield? They don't seem that far off of eachother.

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2 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

So now we know that we will be entering the draft anywhere from 5th-9th place. If we won the lottery and somehow managed to get the 1st OVA pick would it be too much of an insult to the fan base if the Habs passed on Lafreniere and selected Byfield? Just looking at his profile he is 6'4" weighs 214lbs has 82 points and is a full year younger playing in traditionally a tougher league. I must admit I don't know much about either kid but why not take Byfield? They don't seem that far off of eachother.

Kinda sounds like McCarran. :P

 

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9 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

So now we know that we will be entering the draft anywhere from 5th-9th place. If we won the lottery and somehow managed to get the 1st OVA pick would it be too much of an insult to the fan base if the Habs passed on Lafreniere and selected Byfield? Just looking at his profile he is 6'4" weighs 214lbs has 82 points and is a full year younger playing in traditionally a tougher league. I must admit I don't know much about either kid but why not take Byfield? They don't seem that far off of eachother.

I honestly havent seen any of these guys play much but there are a lot of scouts who seem to think Lafreniere may be a generational talent.  Maybe he's only a "very good player" (ie Tavares) but if there's even the remotest chance he's a McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin etc - you gotta take him. 

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4 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I honestly havent seen any of these guys play much but there are a lot of scouts who seem to think Lafreniere may be a generational talent.  Maybe he's only a "very good player" (ie Tavares) but if there's even the remotest chance he's a McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin etc - you gotta take him. 

Yeah I get that, like I said I haven't seen much of them either just looking at the stats this year looks like Lafreniere is about a 2.15 PPG player at 18 and Byfield is at 1.82 PPG at 17. I was just wondering if was a McDavid vs Hall or if it was more of a Crosby vs Malkin type of comparison. I don't really know that why I asked lol

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12 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Yeah I get that, like I said I haven't seen much of them either just looking at the stats this year looks like Lafreniere is about a 2.15 PPG player at 18 and Byfield is at 1.82 PPG at 17. I was just wondering if was a McDavid vs Hall or if it was more of a Crosby vs Malkin type of comparison. I don't really know that why I asked lol

Byfield was virtually invisible at the world juniors relative to Lafreniere who carried the team. He’s also leveled off substantially since the world juniors - I can’t see Byfield catching up within a year. I don’t think I’d trade Lafreniere for Ottawa’s three picks in the draft of which one would be Byfield either. He’s a can’t miss prospect and no Yakupov 

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7 hours ago, claremont said:

Byfield was virtually invisible at the world juniors relative to Lafreniere who carried the team. He’s also leveled off substantially since the world juniors - I can’t see Byfield catching up within a year. I don’t think I’d trade Lafreniere for Ottawa’s three picks in the draft of which one would be Byfield either. He’s a can’t miss prospect and no Yakupov 

I see thanks, like I said just looking at the numbers they SEEMED close so I wondered if there was a chance we might move for Byfield instead. Looking at the responses I guess it doesn't make sense lol

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6 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I see thanks, like I said just looking at the numbers they SEEMED close so I wondered if there was a chance we might move for Byfield instead. Looking at the responses I guess it doesn't make sense lol

I think there are some players who will go in the top 10 who may be elite - several in fact - but I do think there's a legit chance that Lafreniere is "the next one" so it would be hard to pass up.

Either way I think we will end up with a very good player in this draft. 

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11 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I think there are some players who will go in the top 10 who may be elite - several in fact - but I do think there's a legit chance that Lafreniere is "the next one" so it would be hard to pass up.

Either way I think we will end up with a very good player in this draft. 

Louis Leblanc good? Or even better? :lol:

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13 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Louis Leblanc good? Or even better? :lol:

Haha. Well lets hope better. 2009 was a year where there was a lot of talent in the top 10  (top 7 are all top quality players to this day) but things tapered off in a hurry. That said, instead of Leblanc we could have drafted Kreider, Johansson or best of all... ROR.   

2009 was a colossally bad draft for us.  Leblanc, no 2nd rounder, then Nattinen & Mac Bennett in the 3rd. Avtsin &  Dumont in the 4th & 5th. Walsh, Cichy and Simila in the later rounds...  thats a total of 141 nhl games for ALL of our 2009 draft picks combined.   50 for Leblanc, 90 for Dumont and 1 for Nattinen.   Ooff.

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39 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Haha. Well lets hope better. 2009 was a year where there was a lot of talent in the top 10  (top 7 are all top quality players to this day) but things tapered off in a hurry. That said, instead of Leblanc we could have drafted Kreider, Johansson or best of all... ROR.   

2009 was a colossally bad draft for us.  Leblanc, no 2nd rounder, then Nattinen & Mac Bennett in the 3rd. Avtsin &  Dumont in the 4th & 5th. Walsh, Cichy and Simila in the later rounds...  thats a total of 141 nhl games for ALL of our 2009 draft picks combined.   50 for Leblanc, 90 for Dumont and 1 for Nattinen.   Ooff.

Oh damn. That's bad.

I was looking back at our draft history. There were some BAD drafts in there in the past 20 years. I guess every team has good and bad drafts, but darn... Our first rounders haven't really worked out that well.

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11 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Oh damn. That's bad.

I was looking back at our draft history. There were some BAD drafts in there in the past 20 years. I guess every team has good and bad drafts, but darn... Our first rounders haven't really worked out that well.

Yeah, we seem to do a lot better with 2nd rounders tbh. Im not sure if its because our scouting staff gets all nervous in the in the 1st round or something & then feels safer in the second, but most of our 1sts have not been great.  In the 2nd we seem to think a little more 'outside the box' which has led to some very intriguing prospects of late.

I was reading that there's some who believe that Norlinder (who was actually one of the first picks in the 3rd round last year) may have just shot up to the top of our LD depth chart.  Romanov, Harris, Ylonen - there's some very interesting guys indeed and all were in that 2nd-3rd round sweet-spot that Timmins seems to do so well.

 

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8 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, we seem to do a lot better with 2nd rounders tbh. Im not sure if its because our scouting staff gets all nervous in the in the 1st round or something & then feels safer in the second, but most of our 1sts have not been great.  In the 2nd we seem to think a little more 'outside the box' which has led to some very intriguing prospects of late.

I was reading that there's some who believe that Norlinder (who was actually one of the first picks in the 3rd round last year) may have just shot up to the top of our LD depth chart.  Romanov, Harris, Ylonen - there's some very interesting guys indeed and all were in that 2nd-3rd round sweet-spot that Timmins seems to do so well.

I know next to nothing about Norlinder. Hopefully he turns out to be a diamond in the rough. It's a long road for defenders to make it in the NHL. I just hope at least one of our D prospects pans out to be a really good player!

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19 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I know next to nothing about Norlinder. Hopefully he turns out to be a diamond in the rough. It's a long road for defenders to make it in the NHL. I just hope at least one of our D prospects pans out to be a really good player!

Norlinder won the award for the best junior player in the Allsvenskan this season, he's a highly-skilled, puck-moving dman. Had a bit of injuries trouble this year (so he fits right in) but there's a lot to like. Got plenty of ice time on the first pairing with Tobias Enstrom. He's still under contract with Modo next season though so it'll take a while before we get to see him but he's promising for sure.

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anyone looked into our potential targets?

I was checking it out, it seems marco rossi is the most prolific scorer that could be available in our slot, what do you guys think

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51 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

anyone looked into our potential targets?

I was checking it out, it seems marco rossi is the most prolific scorer that could be available in our slot, what do you guys think

I’ve commented on Rossi and several other potential picks under state of the Habs. While he’s interesting and somewhat small, he’s playing with a rather stacked Ottawa 67s team which may make his stats better than comparables- while still a good pick, and I love the ohl for its quality, I prefer Perfetti or Drysdale or a few of the Euros (Holtz, Raymond, Lundell) if they fall to our level. Jake Sanderson could rise up on some boards. No way Stuzle falls to 8. 

In the 2nd round, I hope Tyson Foerster or Ryan  O’Rourke fit into our pick spots. I doubt Jacob Perrault falls here 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

anyone looked into our potential targets?

I was checking it out, it seems marco rossi is the most prolific scorer that could be available in our slot, what do you guys think

Its going to be quite interesting because while Lafreniere is clearly the #1 pick, after that its really fairly murky as far as who goes next.

Probably Byfield, but it could be Drysdale or even Stutzle. And depending upon who picks in what order, and their current needs, i could see guys like Rossi, Perfetti, Holtz etc all potentially going in different order than the initial draft rankings.

We're going to get a good player, the real question is which one.   Much like the draft 2 years ago, where a lot people had Zadina ranked 3rd and he dropped to 6th, its conceivable that the guy we'd pick with 3rd or 4th overall may be available if we do indeed pick at 7th or 8th.

On the positive, it seems unlikely (even if the season resumes) that we'll rise too high in the standings and this is one of those years you want a top 10 (or better still, top 7) pick for sure. 

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5. Cole Perfetti (5-10, 177), F, Saginaw (OHL) -- A skilled forward with high hockey IQ and competitiveness, Perfetti helped Canada to a second-place finish at the 2019 Hlinka Gretzky Cup with 12 points (eight goals, four assists) in five games.

6. Yaroslav Askarov (6-3, 176), G, SKA-St. Petersburg (RUS) -- An intimidating presence in net with great athleticism and a quick glove. He led Russia to second place at the 2019 IIHF World Under-18 Championship and to first place at the 2019 Hlinka Gretzky Cup, finishing with a 1.25 goals-against average and .960 save percentage in four games there. 

7. Jamie Drysdale (5-11, 172), D, Erie (OHL) -- A two-way defenseman capable of driving play with his skating and elite hockey sense. Drysdale had 40 points (seven goals, 33 assists) in 63 games last season to set an Erie record for points by a rookie defenseman.

8. Anton Lundell (6-1, 185), F, HIFK (FIN) -- A two-way center capable of reading the play well. He had 19 points (nine goals, 10 assists) in 38 games in Liiga, Finland's top professional league, last season.

9. Marco Rossi (5-9, 183), F, Ottawa (OHL) -- The Austria-born left-handed shot is tough in his own end and possesses a high hockey IQ and good hands. The 18-year-old center is one of the draft's oldest first-year eligible players; he was born eight days after the Sept. 15 cutoff.

10. Hendrix Lapierre (5-11, 179), F, Chicoutimi (QMJHL) -- The center offers great hockey sense, competitiveness and playmaking qualities. Lapierre may have the highest ceiling of any player projected to go in the first round. He won QMJHL offensive rookie of the year after finishing with 45 points (13 goals, 32 assists) in 48 games last season.

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we probably arent taking a goalie i think thats a safe bet

lundell sounds like something we have....low risk, could be solid.....I think we need a serious impact player

perfetti, rossi or lapierre sound best to me out of this projected list

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Its going to be quite interesting because while Lafreniere is clearly the #1 pick, after that its really fairly murky as far as who goes next.

Probably Byfield, but it could be Drysdale or even Stutzle. And depending upon who picks in what order, and their current needs, i could see guys like Rossi, Perfetti, Holtz etc all potentially going in different order than the initial draft rankings.

We're going to get a good player, the real question is which one.   Much like the draft 2 years ago, where a lot people had Zadina ranked 3rd and he dropped to 6th, its conceivable that the guy we'd pick with 3rd or 4th overall may be available if we do indeed pick at 7th or 8th.

On the positive, it seems unlikely (even if the season resumes) that we'll rise too high in the standings and this is one of those years you want a top 10 (or better still, top 7) pick for sure. 

Agreed, picking at #8 means we're exacty at the point where the rankings from most scouts start to get a little less clear. Pretty sure that Byfield will go at #2, a 6'4 center with as much offensive potential as he has will be hard to pass up for any team. Then there are Stützle-Raymond-Holtz-Rossi-Drysdale (not necessarily in that order) who seem to have the highest possibility of becoming impact players in the NHL. The dark horse is Askarov, if a team decides to take him one of those guys might fall into our lap. Otherwise we'll be looking at players like Perfetti, Lundell, Mercer, Zary, maybe Perreault, which all come with a few question marks and aren't surefire impact players sadly. Lapierre is interesting because he has fallen out of favor due to concussion issues this season, he's got tons of skill but it's a bit of a risky pick.

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