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If Bergevin researched Hall at that time he was smart not to acquire the baggage he was carrying in Edmonton. Many people think Edmonton got robbed by that trade, but there may he a reason Larsson was all they could get. Since that trade Hall's style of play much like Shaw's leaves him prone to injury.  Subban's personality and style appears to be contrary to the all for one buy-in that Bergevin, Julien and some of the players seem to be talking about and a big part of the attitude change last year and so far this year. Perhaps this is more than a philosophy within the system and is  becoming more of the practice within the organization. This is in no way going to appease the skeptics and Bergevin still has a lot of work to do.

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So uh. Anyone else a bit concered? After the much ballyhooed "full summer of training" that would restore the man mountain to his former glory he looks a lot closer to last April than last November. That combined with taking rest days 2 games into the season has me a bit worried there's some kind of nagging injury going on. 

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4 minutes ago, maas_art said:

This is a concern for sure. 

That's really the main thing for me, with how good he was in Nov-Jan last year I was willing to accept that he was fatigued in Feb-Apr when he slowed down last year. I figured with the full off-season he'd be back in shape and put together a season closer to that Nov-Jan level (although I didn't expect him to be that good all year) and by all accounts he's back in tip top shape. 

All summer I was pretty bullish on his outlook for the next few seasons but I'm definitely worried now. 

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14 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I wonder what it'll look like in... 2022-2023. I know it's a long way, but... I can't imagine Shea will remain a top-2 defender for many more years. It'll be interesting to see how this season unfolds.

Those last years of his deal he'll only be making close to League minimum,,, even though his Cap hit is still the same. It's questionable if he even plays for that kind of money.

Making 6 this year and the next two years followed by 1 year at 3M, then 3 years of 1M

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45 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I wonder what it'll look like in... 2022-2023. I know it's a long way, but... I can't imagine Shea will remain a top-2 defender for many more years. It'll be interesting to see how this season unfolds.

From what I've seen so far in preseason and first 3 games of regular ... he's not a top pairing D right now.     He is constantly chasing the play and the only thing that saves him is his ability to read the play and anticipate where he should be.    But he simply can't keep up and seems to be always one step behind the attacker. 

I honestly think we should be using Petry as the #1 RD and reducing Webers minutes somewhat.

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32 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

From what I've seen so far in preseason and first 3 games of regular ... he's not a top pairing D right now.     He is constantly chasing the play and the only thing that saves him is his ability to read the play and anticipate where he should be.    But he simply can't keep up and seems to be always one step behind the attacker. 

I honestly think we should be using Petry as the #1 RD and reducing Webers minutes somewhat.

His positing seems off to me. That is the thing that has always allowed him to be effective, even though he's slower:  If he reads the play & is in the right place, it doesnt matter how slow he is. But this year, he seems to be reading plays wrong.  Maybe it will come back but its a bit of a concern for sure. 

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4 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Significant. You might be onto something about reducing his minutes.

Way too early for stats, but the eye test isn't in his favour just yet. We still have to remember he's getting tougher match ups, but that's not to say Petry wouldn't do a better job in that role.

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I don't get the impression Weber's hurt. I get the impression he's just aging and slowing down. Either way, if he's hurt so bad that he can't play up to snuff 2-3 games into the season after his other recent injuries, it doesn't bode well. It means he's likely going to be playing hurt most of the year and that his body isn't holding up. Best case scenario for us is that he's just rusty after summer, but then so too should everyone else be.

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48 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't get the impression Weber's hurt. I get the impression he's just aging and slowing down. Either way, if he's hurt so bad that he can't play up to snuff 2-3 games into the season after his other recent injuries, it doesn't bode well. It means he's likely going to be playing hurt most of the year and that his body isn't holding up. Best case scenario for us is that he's just rusty after summer, but then so too should everyone else be.

Umm everyone on D has looked pretty rust here and there so far! it is not like we have been in any low scoring games! i am not going to worry until the first ten games or so are played then we will have a better idea of what we have. it would be nice if his partner would score once in a while.

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

Umm everyone on D has looked pretty rust here and there so far! it is not like we have been in any low scoring games! i am not going to worry until the first ten games or so are played then we will have a better idea of what we have. it would be nice if his partner would score once in a while.

Petry's looked great. No rust at all in my view. Fleury was pretty decent, as was Kulak. Reilly was also pretty good last game, despite that being his first game... IMO, it's Weber, Chiarot, and to some degree Mete who have looked off.

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Petry has for sure been the best of the bunch and when you consider it was his first two games i am very impressed with Fleury! the rest Meh! it is early but like i posted before it is time to tighten it up big time we have to get the overall shots against down and get the quality shots way down! the forwards have to play tighter as well they have been cheating a bit and i find it hurts the transition.

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I wonder if its time to break up Mete-Weber. 
The problem is that the only real option there would be Kulak - who really looks solid next to Petry.  You cant play Chiarot next to Weber and I dont think Reilly is an option either.

Its been a tiny sample size but Mete without weber 47.06 cf%  Weber without mete 56.10 cf %   last year: Mete without weber 50.60  Weber without mete 57. 57


I just think that at this stage of his career, Weber cant handle a partner who needs help.  Put him with a guy who can do his part & I think Shea will be fine, but put him with someone who loses battles & assignments (as Mete is prone to do against the opposition's top players) and you will find Weber cant make up for that any more.

Id be inclined to try:
Kulak- Weber
Mete - Petry
Chiator/Reilly - Fleury/Folin

How soon can we think about calling up Leskinen?  4pt in 4gp

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I wonder if its time to break up Mete-Weber. 
The problem is that the only real option there would be Kulak - who really looks solid next to Petry.  You cant play Chiarot next to Weber and I dont think Reilly is an option either.

Its been a tiny sample size but Mete without weber 47.06 cf%  Weber without mete 56.10 cf %   last year: Mete without weber 50.60  Weber without mete 57. 57


I just think that at this stage of his career, Weber cant handle a partner who needs help.  Put him with a guy who can do his part & I think Shea will be fine, but put him with someone who loses battles & assignments (as Mete is prone to do against the opposition's top players) and you will find Weber cant make up for that any more.

Id be inclined to try:
Kulak- Weber
Mete - Petry
Chiator/Reilly - Fleury/Folin

How soon can we think about calling up Leskinen?  4pt in 4gp

I think I actually suggested these same pairings a week ago... Kulak-Petry has worked well but ultimately I think as long as Petry has a mobile D partner, he'll be fine. Kulak is for better or for worse one of our top 4 D men, so I agree with you that he's the next man up to pair with Weber. After that, it's a fill-in-the-blank. I actually wonder if Leskinen gets a call-up, first to see how he does on the 3rd pairing but ultimately, he might even be a guy who gets a shot next to Weber too.

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

I wonder if its time to break up Mete-Weber. 
The problem is that the only real option there would be Kulak - who really looks solid next to Petry.  You cant play Chiarot next to Weber and I dont think Reilly is an option either.

Its been a tiny sample size but Mete without weber 47.06 cf%  Weber without mete 56.10 cf %   last year: Mete without weber 50.60  Weber without mete 57. 57


I just think that at this stage of his career, Weber cant handle a partner who needs help.  Put him with a guy who can do his part & I think Shea will be fine, but put him with someone who loses battles & assignments (as Mete is prone to do against the opposition's top players) and you will find Weber cant make up for that any more.

Id be inclined to try:
Kulak- Weber
Mete - Petry
Chiator/Reilly - Fleury/Folin

How soon can we think about calling up Leskinen?  4pt in 4gp

I wonder if the coaching staff have a plan for Mete and Kulak once our LD situation is resolved. I am talking end of this year beginning of next. Like it or not I think Chiarot is here to stay even if it's on the third pairing. Kulak and Mete could be displaced by one or both of Leskinen and Romanov. Kulak as a second pairing defender could net a decent return. Mete due to his lack of production might be passed over by other teams. I wonder if because of his skill set Mete could be moved to a top 9 winger spot. He has speed, great hands, Hugh hockey IQ and is solid defensively. I think he would make for a dangerous winger much like Byron. He could help kill penalties and would be a great point option to quarterback the PP on the second unit like Drouin does on the first. As a winger his size doesn't hurt him as much.

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  • 2 months later...

Thought id dig this thread up since a lot of us were a bit worried about the captain to start the year.   Ive read three separate articles lately suggesting Weber's name should at least be in the discussions for the Norris.  Now, obviously its way early (Not even halfway) and Carlson has a big point lead - but - here's an interesting stat:

Since October 17th:

Carlson: 25 games, 31 points.    
Yandle:  24 games, 24 points  
Weber: 26 games, 24 points
Hedman: 21games, 22 points
Makar: 23 games 22points.  

The big question is obviously: can he maintain this pace?  Hamilton, while still ahead has cooled lately and Carlson has come back to earth (still tops in points by a D but nowhere near the spread).


I think if Shea can keep it up, he gets at least consideration.   As a 3 time finalist (including 2 of the closest votes in the last 25 years of voting) there's a sliver of a chance he gets the "political" vote - the way actors sometimes get the academy award in years they dont really deserve it because they were overlooked in years they did.  As guys who watch Shea every game we know that his defensive game has suffered a bit lately but he still has that Man Mountain reputation and that can go a long way in the world of hockey voting... 

 

 

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