habsisme

New GM?

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I like Marc Bergevin (don't shoot!) but I thought at the beginning of the season that if we didn't make playoffs, he'd be gone. I'm now quite certain that we won't make the playoffs. Do you think MB is gone? Who do you THINK he'll be replaced with? Who do you WANT as your next GM? 

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I don't think he will be gone he will spin it that there were just too many injuries this season to overcome.

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47 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I like Marc Bergevin (don't shoot!) but I thought at the beginning of the season that if we didn't make playoffs, he'd be gone. I'm now quite certain that we won't make the playoffs. Do you think MB is gone? Who do you THINK he'll be replaced with? Who do you WANT as your next GM? 

I actually think he's pretty much as safe as he was 2 years ago.

Why? 
David Poile, Doug Wilson, Bob Murray etc.

These are all GMs who have been tenured for a long time ( 23 years, 17 years, 12 years respectively) and have had some bad years during their time with the teams.   I believe that Marc Bergevin is an "ok" GM but an exceptional speaker & I believe he's gotten Molson to buy into the "these things take time" mantra.   I would agree with him in some circumstances (Poile for example inherited an absolutely abysmal roster back when the expansion teams had virtually no chance to be competitive) but MB actually inherited a decent team with a top 3 pick to boot. He actually managed to make us worse before course correcting & making us better.

Im on the fence at this point about whether we should replace him. He's finally started to do things right & of course the big question is: who is his replacement? Since we insist on cutting our potential candidate list in half by not looking at non french-speaking candidates, i worry about whether the "new guy" would be any better.

 

If i had to place bets:

Chance Julien is fired as coach:  20%
Chance Bergevin is fired as GM: 10%
Chance one or more of the assistants is fired: 40%

 

 

 

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lol my post is almost polar opposite here

i DISlike marc bergevin, which is an enormous understatement, and i thought at the beginning of the season that he would keep his job no matter WHAT happened, which I correctly thought would be exactly what IS happening.

I do hold out some hope though, because although I am 100% certain that just missing the playoffs means nothing , there is some % of a chance that if we bomb badly enough he might get canned, and we are doing a decent job of that right now so hopefully we keep it up.

Now in the event that we do keep this up and geoff molson experiences a moment of lucidity long enough to do the right thing, I dont know who a candidate would be but I do know what I want, and that is someone young and with a contemporary knowledge of the cap and the sport

i.e not a good old boy who thinks whats missing is attitude and character, but someone who is going to assess the team objectively and critically, and start managing our assets properly.

 

 

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Marc Bergevin has just taken the Habs through as bad a stretch as we have had in team history in terms of not making the playoffs and how poorly we've finished in the standings over the past 5 years. He's made a lot of bad decisions about coaches and free agents and he's failed to address our team's biggest holes despite having 8 years to do it.

BUT I think he's convinced Molson that the plan is patience and that we have one of the best prospect pools in hockey now. I almost feel like if Molson let him survive the past couple of years, he'll let him survive until we see what Suzuki, JK, Romanov, Brook, Primeau, Caufield, etc. can do at an NHL level. I have a hunch that MB is counting on both Romanov and Caufield being in the NHL next season, and as I've posted many times before, the big reset on this roster is almost certainly coming in the 2021 off-season. That's when Petry, Gallagher, Armia, Tatar, and Danault all hit unrestricted free agency. Kotkaniemi, Lehkonen, Poehling, and Fleury all hit RFA status that year too, and we will lose a player in the ED. Weber will be 36, Price will be 34. If nothing has happened by then, it'll happen that summer. That's the point at which big decisions will be forced onto the Habs in terms of who they keep, who they let walk, who they trade beforehand, and who they expose in the ED. So frankly, you probably want the person in charge then who is going to take you forward past that point. My guess is that Bergevin is safe this season and the start of next season. If the team starts poorly next year and he hasn't added something to his roster to fix the issues, both Julien and Bergevin will be gone either early in the season or by the summer. I don't see MB going anywhere now and I don't see much point in firing Julien now either (as I've discussed elsewhere), even though I'd say he's more likely to go than Bergevin, if indeed the Habs feel compelled to make a scapegoat and fire someone.

As Jed posted, it may be even more likely than that that an assistant coach goes, and if that's the case, you'd have to put a certain amount of money on Muller being that guy. Ducharme is part of the new blood that the Habs might see as an option for a future head coach, so I doubt he goes anywhere, and while Richardson's D corps has struggled, he really hasn't been given a very good group to coach. Muller has been here a long time and having already failed as a head coach elsewhere, I'm not sure he's viewed as a solution and future head coach down the line. So if I were going to put odds on things, I'd go

- Bergevin: 5% chance he's fired this season; 25% chance he's fired next season; 40% chance he's fired after the 2020-21 season; 30% chance he's here past the 2021 off-season.

- Julien: 20% chance he's fired this season; 30% he's fired this off-season; 30% chance he's fired next season or right after the season ends; 20% chance he's still here for 2021-22.

- Muller: 50% chance he's fired by this summer

- Richardson: 30% chance he's fired by this summer

- Ducharme: 20% chance he's fired by this summer

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I truly think MB will be gone, there is no way Molson isn't hearing the outcry from the fans, as well as the performance on the ice.  He has completely wasted the prime years of the best goalie in the league.  The AHO offer sheet was a complete joke, and his draft history should be enough to get him removed.  He keeps trying to buuild a team around the old school grind it out style of game using mediocre talent and relying on the goalie to win games, as they used to do back in the Hasek, Brodeur, Lunquist days.  Those days and play styles are far behind us.

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Posted (edited)

I really, really want to believe that Marc Bergevin will be fired before the end of this season.

Too many wasted seasons. Too often not being able to address the team's needs. Missing the playoffs too frequently.

To respond to Ted, I agree that the end of the 2020-21 season is likely to be one of change for the organization. However, wouldn't it be most effective to have the person you want to go forward with in place before the end of that season? My thinking is that a new general manager could use the upcoming draft in Montreal and time to evaluate the current ranks to prepare for the "purge" or "reshuffling" that's likely coming at the end of 2020-21.

Edited by jennifer_rocket
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If 2021 is truly the summer of change for this team, given the number of vets being UFA and the age of Price/Weber ... wouldn't it be better to then try and trade Price/Weber now while they have some value? and add more prospects that should be contributing or ready to debut by then?

As to MB/Julien being gone ... I doubt it.   Given Molson's talks of "patience" at start of season and the cyptic "the window is 3-8 years, maybe even 1-8" ... he's at least given MB that long.

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32 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

If 2021 is truly the summer of change for this team, given the number of vets being UFA and the age of Price/Weber ... wouldn't it be better to then try and trade Price/Weber now while they have some value? and add more prospects that should be contributing or ready to debut by then?

Absolutely.  But i think MB has proven he doesnt always do what makes the most sense. 

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Shouldn't this have happened a long time ago?  

 

 

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7 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I really, really want to believe that Marc Bergevin will be fired before the end of this season.

Too many wasted seasons. Too often not being able to address the team's needs. Missing the playoffs too frequently.

To respond to Ted, I agree that the end of the 2020-21 season is likely to be one of change for the organization. However, wouldn't it be most effective to have the person you want to go forward with in place before the end of that season? My thinking is that a new general manager could use the upcoming draft in Montreal and time to evaluate the current ranks to prepare for the "purge" or "reshuffling" that's likely coming at the end of 2020-21.

Oh I don't disagree with that. If Bergevin's not the long-term guy, you probably want the guy who is in as soon as possible, so you're not wasting further years trading away all the acquisitions and picks that don't mesh with the new guy's vision for the team. If it were up to me, I would fire Bergevin now and retain Julien through at least the end of this season. I just don't think Molson will do it. I think he's most likely to give Bergevin this year and at least part of next as well.

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8 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Oh I don't disagree with that. If Bergevin's not the long-term guy, you probably want the guy who is in as soon as possible, so you're not wasting further years trading away all the acquisitions and picks that don't mesh with the new guy's vision for the team. If it were up to me, I would fire Bergevin now and retain Julien through at least the end of this season. I just don't think Molson will do it. I think he's most likely to give Bergevin this year and at least part of next as well.

I would agree that Bergevin should be gone now and Julien could possibly be evaluated by the new GM. We've just gone through two of the longest losing streaks in team history, we're going to miss the playoffs three years in a row, and since the hiring of Bergevin in 2012 he hasn't shown the fan base or ownership that he's capable of taking the team to the next level. I don't get why Molson wants to continue kicking this can down the street.

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The problem is not just just Bergevin. Molson is not a hockey guy. He is focused on his EVENKO (what a stupid name) "entertainment empire" We need a new president. A hockey guy who knows what it takes to win championships. Someone who won't bite on the 1-8 year "reset" apple being offered up by Bergevin. To many bad deals. To many bad descisions. Too few good moves. To much "tinkering" a president of the habs that knows hockey. knows other presidents of other teams. Who can step in when needed to course correct. These are the things we are missing. Remember who Bergevin worked for on Chicago. He has free reign here compared. And he obviously doesn't know what to do with it. He miss treats players so not many want to come here because of him. He seems to like to watch the waiver wires. We have lots of cap space but he won't go and get the players we need. The Aho debacle shows us that all Bergevin wants is attention. All these draft picks this year for a draft pool that is projected to be good in the first round and drop off dramatically after that. And we are loaded with picks after the first round. So we are going to suck for years to come.

And you know that management doesn't read these posts. Lots of good ideas. Lots of concerns. None of which matter to the front office.

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I’m game. I’ve already stated my wish is Roy for President of Hockey Opps, let him fill the GM spot with a hiring of his choosing. One potential perk to this is since Roy is French, is it as pressing for his GM to also speak French? 

But Roy aside, any other suggestions? Who else would we like to see get a crack at driving this bus?

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2 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I’m game. I’ve already stated my wish is Roy for President of Hockey Opps, let him fill the GM spot with a hiring of his choosing. One potential perk to this is since Roy is French, is it as pressing for his GM to also speak French? 

But Roy aside, any other suggestions? Who else would we like to see get a crack at driving this bus?

This would interest me as well. Molson has to be feeling the pressure MB did nothing and even went public saying he did not do what was best for the team in the Kovy trade. MB said during his presser that there were better offers out there but that he traded Kovy for less with 50% retained so Kovy could go where he wanted. Hos salary was only 700k FFS why did we need to retain half? That alone should get him fired combine that with his statements of trades are hard, FA is hard and drafting is hard along with the decline on ticket sales and there is no reason GM should keep MB on

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Well, this guy really gets me depressed every time. His "I tried to do what was right for the organization" is like he's making excuses for his drafts  

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23 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

This would interest me as well. Molson has to be feeling the pressure MB did nothing and even went public saying he did not do what was best for the team in the Kovy trade. MB said during his presser that there were better offers out there but that he traded Kovy for less with 50% retained so Kovy could go where he wanted. Hos salary was only 700k FFS why did we need to retain half? That alone should get him fired combine that with his statements of trades are hard, FA is hard and drafting is hard along with the decline on ticket sales and there is no reason GM should keep MB on

 

4 minutes ago, Unmasked said:

Well, this guy really gets me depressed every time. His "I tried to do what was right for the organization" is like he's making excuses for his drafts  

But he keeps coming up with excuses like this. Remember the whole "we traded for John Scott for reasons I can't tell you about"?

He's basically admitted he could have had a 2nd rounder for Kovy and turned it down to send Kovalchuk to a spot he preferred to go to. Francois Gagnon asked Bergevin straight up if he had turned down a better offer like a 1st or a 2nd, and Bergevin's answer was literally "A 1st, no. A 2nd... you have to remember that not all 2nd's are created equal and some could be at the end of the round or have conditions or other things." So he basically admitted he had at least a conditional 2nd. And he can talk about it being a late 2nd, but his Washington pick is going to be a late 3rd, so how could it be worse?

MB talked about how it was important to show loyalty to Kovy and treat him with respect. But when negotiating with Markov and Radulov, he had no interest in loyalty. Not for a guy like Markov who had been with the Habs for 15 years, but enough loyalty to show one of the shortest-serving Habs. When asked if he had had discussions wit Kovy about next year, MB seemed to know he wasn't allowed to comment on another team's player and whether he would give him an offer, but his hesitation and stuttering seemed to suggest he has already had contract talks with Kovy and maybe a gentleman's agreement with him, but he didn't want to implicate himself. Basically another "we traded Kovy for less than we could have gotten for reasons that I can't tell you about."

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4 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

But he keeps coming up with excuses like this. Remember the whole "we traded for John Scott for reasons I can't tell you about"?

He's basically admitted he could have had a 2nd rounder for Kovy and turned it down to send Kovalchuk to a spot he preferred to go to. Francois Gagnon asked Bergevin straight up if he had turned down a better offer like a 1st or a 2nd, and Bergevin's answer was literally "A 1st, no. A 2nd... you have to remember that not all 2nd's are created equal and some could be at the end of the round or have conditions or other things." So he basically admitted he had at least a conditional 2nd. And he can talk about it being a late 2nd, but his Washington pick is going to be a late 3rd, so how could it be worse?

MB talked about how it was important to show loyalty to Kovy and treat him with respect. But when negotiating with Markov and Radulov, he had no interest in loyalty. Not for a guy like Markov who had been with the Habs for 15 years, but enough loyalty to show one of the shortest-serving Habs. When asked if he had had discussions wit Kovy about next year, MB seemed to know he wasn't allowed to comment on another team's player and whether he would give him an offer, but his hesitation and stuttering seemed to suggest he has already had contract talks with Kovy and maybe a gentleman's agreement with him, but he didn't want to implicate himself. Basically another "we traded Kovy for less than we could have gotten for reasons that I can't tell you about."

I suspect that the offer was a third that COULD become a second. He clearly wants to make Kovalchuk happy because he wants him to return. I don't have a problem with that. 

I agree that MB's treatment of Markov and Radulov was MB at his worst

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12 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I suspect that the offer was a third that COULD become a second. He clearly wants to make Kovalchuk happy because he wants him to return. I don't have a problem with that. 

I agree that MB's treatment of Markov and Radulov was MB at his worst

Sure, but let's say Team B came at you with 2nd rounder if we win a playoff round and otherwise a 3rd... that's still a better offer than Washington's.

Bergevin also told Francois Gagnon that there were "more than two teams that made offers for Kovalchuk." So even if it's a Colorado or a Calgary or a Vancouver or Florida or Carolina, those teams are all likelier to have a mid-round 3rd than Washington, who are more likely to have a late 3rd. Bergevin outright stated that the other offer was probably better but that Kovalchuk's preference was to go and play with Ovi in Washington. I get it if it was just a matter of Boston's 3rd vs. Washington's 3rd, but Bergevin himself seemed to say that wasn't the case and there was a better offer he left on the table just so he "could do right by Kovy."

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So when MB is fired (hope hope) is the new GM happy that we got less return, and will he even want to give him a contract offer? 

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31 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Sure, but let's say Team B came at you with 2nd rounder if we win a playoff round and otherwise a 3rd... that's still a better offer than Washington's.

Bergevin also told Francois Gagnon that there were "more than two teams that made offers for Kovalchuk." So even if it's a Colorado or a Calgary or a Vancouver or Florida or Carolina, those teams are all likelier to have a mid-round 3rd than Washington, who are more likely to have a late 3rd. Bergevin outright stated that the other offer was probably better but that Kovalchuk's preference was to go and play with Ovi in Washington. I get it if it was just a matter of Boston's 3rd vs. Washington's 3rd, but Bergevin himself seemed to say that wasn't the case and there was a better offer he left on the table just so he "could do right by Kovy."

This is my opinion as well plus in order to make the deal we had retain half of his contract. So basically Washington said we don't want him but seeing as your keeping half of his salary we will give you what amounts to a 4th round pick. On this deal alone MB should be fired!!!

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"New GM" should represent "Geoff Molson" who needs a new outlook on a "General Manager" needed for building a Hockey team that can win a Stanley Cup.

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LookEvens is a good Ruth line center. At 23 he took time to develop. Having said that AHL hockey ain’t the nhl. Let’s see what the rest of the season will bring for  that guy. But in reality, it’s too little, to late. I wouldn’t be surprised if Evans isn’t hab come off-season trading. We need to get something for Weber and Price while they still have value. We don’t have a good backup because Price plays too many games. Weber is injured. He should sit out the remainder of the season and should be traded in the off season. 
 

having said all of that the habs are projected to have something like $14M in cap space next year. I can’t wait to see what other bonehead contract offers MB makes. Weber is too old. If we are going younger then let’s pull the trigger and the “reset” over with already. Sticking pat with a core of players that can’t make the playoffs? WTF?

 

Drouin is a bust. He has diminished since coming here. We need to get something for him before MB works his magic and Drouin’s value diminishes even more. As for the other “core” players, none should be secure. They need to play for a spot on the roster next season. 
 

Patrick Roy as President would be a master stroke by Molson. So you know that’s not going to happen. Ahh to dream a little dream. I have already made my intentions clear. I will not financially support this team until MB is gone and we have an actual President that knows hockey. 

Edited by Fanatikal
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No doubt that MB should be fired and take Claude with him. The only thing keeping him in power is he has made a few good (safe) trades. It is the trades he does not make that are the problem. When you have to have a top center or an LD then you have to find a way to make those trades. The young talent that he refuses to trade that never works out just shows even more that he is not deserving of the job. The Radulov and Markov debacle was the time he really showed his true colors. He put his stubbornness ahead of the team and refused to back track to get deals done. 

He even has all you convinced that Romanlov  and Caulfield are going to step in and change the team next season. That is a pipe dream. If we want any chance of ever getting back to the post season, he needs to go. Resign Petry and Tatar. Make a decision on Drouin and Domi. That is what needs doing and he is not the guy. 

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