26NCounting

TRADE DEADLINE - KOVY, THOMPSON, PECA, COUSINS TRADED

427 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, campabee82 said:

My apologies I missed where you said the 8-2 in the games AFTER. I thought you were just adding the 10 game records to catch both Toronto and Florida LOL. 

As for the last part I did assume 5-0 against the Leafs and Panthers however seeing as we have already gone 2-0 vs the Leafs I don't think it's a stretch to beat them twice more especially with Rielly out. Florida is a different story altogether our record against them this year is 0-1-0 our only game being a 6-5 regulation loss on Dec 29th. So even w8nning the last 3 isn't outside the realm of possibility. Is it likely probably not but without hope what is left? As long as we are not mathematically eliminated I will always keep faith and hope they push for the playoffs cause otherwise we are just cheering for losers.

I agree if we're not yet eliminated then I'm all in. Otherwise why watch? I can watch junior to watch the future if I want but not what I prefer. If at the trade deadline we're out of it than you access where you're at. It doesn't absolutely mean you have to make major changes if with the team healthy you see what you think will come around sooner than later. I think it would be great to see Suzuki ,JK, Poehling to have a great second half and Kovy and Drouin catch fire and Gallagher to come back with the team on a roll. Or for those that really want to tank , do we then after selling off the veterans send Suzuki , JK, Poehling ect. down and let 2nd line players from Laval come up to make sure we bottom out? What if we did a big sell and all of a sudden the kids exploded and we kept winning anyway do we boo them and cheer for them to lose?

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54 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

 What if we did a big sell and all of a sudden the kids exploded and we kept winning anyway do we boo them and cheer for them to lose?

That would be of benefit as well ... it gives the kids far more playing time, they wind up winning more than losing and setting themselves up for a great season next year.   We're not going to win it all with the Vets we have, that I'm pretty sure of.

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2 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

How many different years of drafts are those 10 maybe? So if top 5 is great than there would be 30 players outside that list alone top 10 drafted out of 10 years 100 players 70 outside of that list. Even with a huge sell off we probably won't finish with a draft of top 5. Also only a few on that list have Stanley Cups .... at least so far.

Right. Not all top 5 choices become stars. But if I tell you here are three groups of players, which one do you want if you had the choice:

- Group A is top 5 choices where 95% become regular NHLers and 50% become legit 1st line forwards/top pairing D men

- Group B is 6-10 raked choices where 80% become regular NHLers and 25% become 1st liners/top D men

- Group C is lower 1st rounders with 60% odds of becoming regular NHLers and 10% become 1st liners/top D men

Again, sure you can find gems lower down and sure you have top picks who flame out, but the data supports that picking earlier is more likely to yield a star, and that's what we need. We don't really need another Philip Danault or Victor Mete or Joel Armia or Ryan Poehling or so on. Yes, those guys are useful and yes, they are key members of our roster, but they aren't game-changers who are going to make you a favorite to win a Cup. When's the last time the Habs had a top 10 scorer in the league?

The best thing that could happen to this team would be to be able to draft Lafreniere. Short of that, it would be to get a player like Byfield, Stutzle, or Drysdale. Get a game-changer or at least a guy with a reasonable chance of becoming one. A mid-round 1st with a 60% chance of making it and who might only have a benefit to us in 3-4 years doesn't help a lot.

 

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24 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Happens every year around the trade deadline. The armchair GMs come out of the woodwork with their speculation and opinions which for the most part is usually wrong or just asinine which is why they are just armchair GMs and not actual GMs.

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1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

Happens every year around the trade deadline. The armchair GMs come out of the woodwork with their speculation and opinions which for the most part is usually wrong or just asinine which is why they are just armchair GMs and not actual GMs.

Yeah, but in this case I think he's 100% correct.     It's MB that's being foolish and perpetuating this notion that this team is somehow a playoff team or contender.

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9 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Yeah, but in this case I think he's 100% correct.     It's MB that's being foolish and perpetuating this notion that this team is somehow a playoff team or contender.

If you believe that league parity will prevent us from catching and passing those ahead of us for the playoffs how is it you don't consider us contenders? Parity works both ways! If every team is close to every other team in the league then that means every team is a contender!

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#1,,,, unless there is an act of God, where each GM ahead of us in the draft passes on Lafreniere, he ain't coming here. 

#2, we could get a 1st for Cary, but he won't go to the Sens, Det., L.A., or SJ. He wants to win a cup, and soon.

#3,,, we have no reputable starter ready to take over for Cary.

#4, we would have to get a PP quarterback for Weber. Who would give up a young quaterbacking D-man? NJ's PK and Vonn anyone. :ph34r:

#5, MB will wait until we are officially out of the POs before doing anything.

#6, which team can afford Carey's contract?

JM2C

 

 

Edited by kinot-2
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9 hours ago, campabee82 said:

If you believe that league parity will prevent us from catching and passing those ahead of us for the playoffs how is it you don't consider us contenders? Parity works both ways! If every team is close to every other team in the league then that means every team is a contender!

I believe we will not catch or pass those ahead of us ... given their records to date and the pace over the last 30ish games we would need to play at.    Also, looking at this roster they are NOT a contender.   They're a bubble team, constructed to try and "just squeek" into the playoffs.     We have guys on our top line who most teams would be using as secondary player, and that's talking about when we're healthy never mind banged up.

Even if by some miracle we make it into the playoffs ... we would face Washington as the wildcard most likely and Tampa if we finished 3rd in our division.    The prospects for a first round victory would be minimal.     You can't season after season go into it as the under dogs and just be fine with that.

Edited by HabsAlways
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10 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

#3,,, we have no reputable starter ready to take over for Cary.

I keep hearing this as a reason for not trading price but remember that pretty near any team that trades for him is going to want us to take back their starter.  Obviously the guy wont have the pedigree of price but if it happened (it wont)  I wouldnt at all be surprised to hear Waite said to MB "yeah, i can work with that guy."

All of your points are valid but im pretty sure that one would work itself out if there was a trade - but its moot, because i dont think there will be one.  If i put odds on who i think MB might trade of our "important' players id say:

Price: 5%
Weber: 8%
Petry: 10%
Tatar: 20%
Byron: 30%

the likely trade targets will be guys like Thompson, Weise, Weal, Scandella, etc but even then i think MB will likely hold on to most of them. 

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I keep hearing this as a reason for not trading price but remember that pretty near any team that trades for him is going to want us to take back their starter.  Obviously the guy wont have the pedigree of price but I wouldnt at all be surprised to Waite said to MB "yeah, i can work with that guy."

All of your points are valid but im pretty sure that one would work itself out if there was a trade - but its moot, because i dont think there will be one.  If i put odds on who i think MB might trade of our "important' players id say:

Price: 5%
Weber: 8%
Petry: 10%
Tatar: 20%
Byron: 30%

the likely trade targets will be guys like Thompson, Weise, Weal, Scandella, etc but even then i think MB will likely hold on to most of them. 

Yeah, for example Oilers ... they will have 5.8m at deadline ... 

Carey Price, retain 2-3m for 

Sam Gagner (UFA, 3m), Mike Smith (Goalie, UFA, 2M), Bouchard and 1st 

or

Sam Gagner (UFA, 3m), Mikko Koskinen (4.5 for 3 years), Bouchard and 1st and maybe we don't retain any of Price's salary then

 

Heck ... 

Carey Price (retain 3m), Shea Weber to Edmonton for (we give up about 15m in salary)

Sam Ganger (UFA, 3m), Kris Russel (2yrs 4m), Mikko Koskinen (4.5 for 3), Bouchard, 1st and 2nd (they give up 11.5 in salary)

 

 

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I'm wondering about Kovalchuk... he's been great and seems to fit in extremely well (small sample, I know). It also kinda shows what can happen when you add a scorer to an already strong possession team but I digress... Anyhow, should we maybe consider keeping him around if he really wants to stay? He seems to legitimately enjoy playing here. Trading him does make more sense looking at the bigger picture and I probably would trade him if someone offered a 1st rounder (unlikely), but come to think of it I don't see that much value in a low-ish 2nd rounder from a contending team. Sure, teams get lucky and do pick great players outside the first round, but the chances are still rather low. Signing Kovalchuk to, say, a 2-year extension with a reasonable cap hit (4-5M?) would also give Caufield more time to develop, which is preferrable I think given his size. Kovalchuk could be the perfect stop-gap and would also send a message to the fans as well as guys like Price or Weber. Ideally, we trade him at the deadline and then re-sign him in the summer, but that's just too god to be true given our track record on July 1st. I don't expect him to keep that PPG pace over a full season but he gives us a lot of options when everybody is healthy.

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47 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

I'm wondering about Kovalchuk... he's been great and seems to fit in extremely well (small sample, I know). It also kinda shows what can happen when you add a scorer to an already strong possession team but I digress... Anyhow, should we maybe consider keeping him around if he really wants to stay? He seems to legitimately enjoy playing here. Trading him does make more sense looking at the bigger picture and I probably would trade him if someone offered a 1st rounder (unlikely), but come to think of it I don't see that much value in a low-ish 2nd rounder from a contending team. Sure, teams get lucky and do pick great players outside the first round, but the chances are still rather low. Signing Kovalchuk to, say, a 2-year extension with a reasonable cap hit (4-5M?) would also give Caufield more time to develop, which is preferrable I think given his size. Kovalchuk could be the perfect stop-gap and would also send a message to the fans as well as guys like Price or Weber. Ideally, we trade him at the deadline and then re-sign him in the summer, but that's just too god to be true given our track record on July 1st. I don't expect him to keep that PPG pace over a full season but he gives us a lot of options when everybody is healthy.

If you can get a mid-low 1st round or high 2nd rounder you probably take the bite ... if not, you let him walk in the summer.    Sure you could argue it gives Caufield more time, but I doubt Caufield is here in the next 2-3 years given he chose college over AHL.   

This team should be focusing on getting younger, not adding aging veterans.   And what message are we sending Price/Weber?  In my opnion they should be shipped out too by the draft.   

Next year, Kovalchuk would be 37, Price 33, Weber 35, Petry 33 ...  That'd be fine if the rest of our lineup was carrying the load and were more talented.  But they're not.  Keeping those 4 guys simply relies on vets on the decline to be your "elite" players.

Edited by HabsAlways
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5 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

If you can get a mid-low 1st round or high 2nd rounder you probably take the bite ... if not, you let him walk in the summer.    Sure you could argue it gives Caufield more time, but I doubt Caufield is here in the next 2-3 years given he chose college over AHL.   

This team should be focusing on getting younger, not adding aging veterans.   And what message are we sending Price/Weber?  In my opnion they should be shipped out too by the draft.   

Next year, Kovalchuk would be 37, Price 33, Weber 35, Petry 33 ...  That'd be fine if the rest of our lineup was carrying the load and were more talented.  But they're not.  Keeping those 4 guys simply relies on vets on the decline to be your "elite" players.

So we don't think Suzuki, Domi, JK are that talented? Along with Drouin , Gallagher, Armia , Poehling , Lehks are all talented. Drouin was actually playing great until he was injured. We don't think Suzuki , JK have a chance at being elite?

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21 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

So we don't think Suzuki, Domi, JK are that talented? Along with Drouin , Gallagher, Armia , Poehling , Lehks are all talented. Drouin was actually playing great until he was injured. We don't think Suzuki , JK have a chance at being elite?

Suzuki/JK are currently not elite and unlikely to be elite for 2-4 years if that's their Potential.    My point wasn't that we lack overall talent, my point was that the elite talent we supposedly have is all over the hill.    So trading Price, Weber, Petry, Kovalchuk for prospects picks means you have a core of guys (Domi, Suzuki, JK, Poehling, Drouin, Armia, Lehkonen) who will all be maturing/reaching prime when this years and last years (Caufield) prospects are ready to contribute more.   Right now, keeping Weber/Price/Petry/Kovalchuk/Tatar ... by the time our group of what appear to be very very talented young prospects matures, those guys will be long gone anyways.   So why not get something of value NOW rather than nothing later.

Also the more talented players we currently have, Domi, Drouin, Gallagher, Danault for example ... I would argue would be 2nd line players on most teams.     They would not be the top line.    They are not elite players.

Tampa for example ... Stamkos, Kucherov, Point

Washington ... Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlsson, Kusnetsov

Buffalo ... Eichel, Dahlin etc

We can go through most of the teams currently in a playoff spot and find that they have players that exceed our current roster.

We are a bubble team, a team destined to finish in the middle of the pack and not go deep ... and that needs to change. 

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1 hour ago, ChiLla said:

I'm wondering about Kovalchuk... he's been great and seems to fit in extremely well (small sample, I know). It also kinda shows what can happen when you add a scorer to an already strong possession team but I digress... Anyhow, should we maybe consider keeping him around if he really wants to stay? He seems to legitimately enjoy playing here. Trading him does make more sense looking at the bigger picture and I probably would trade him if someone offered a 1st rounder (unlikely), but come to think of it I don't see that much value in a low-ish 2nd rounder from a contending team. Sure, teams get lucky and do pick great players outside the first round, but the chances are still rather low. Signing Kovalchuk to, say, a 2-year extension with a reasonable cap hit (4-5M?) would also give Caufield more time to develop, which is preferrable I think given his size. Kovalchuk could be the perfect stop-gap and would also send a message to the fans as well as guys like Price or Weber. Ideally, we trade him at the deadline and then re-sign him in the summer, but that's just too god to be true given our track record on July 1st. I don't expect him to keep that PPG pace over a full season but he gives us a lot of options when everybody is healthy.

Im not sure, personally.  I mean if you can get a decent pick or prospect for him this is a free asset right? We just signed him for nothing & can now turn around & get something for him? Great!!  but on the other hand, as you said (small sample size) but he's looked terrific.  I think Julien really likes having him too.   Id certainly consider keeping him.  Im confident his skating will make him useful for a least another year or two.  Does that mean he'll score at a PPG? no. But even a 45-55 point Kovalchuk on this roster would be welcome if he doesnt break the bank. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

So we don't think Suzuki, Domi, JK are that talented? Along with Drouin , Gallagher, Armia , Poehling , Lehks are all talented. Drouin was actually playing great until he was injured. We don't think Suzuki , JK have a chance at being elite?

Ya, i disagree also.  The core of this team is very much the under 26 group.  Sure some of our leaders are old but you expect that.  When Gallagher went down Thompson got the A because he's obviously well respected but he's not part of the core-group going forward.  With the young guys you've mentioned I think we have a really nice mix & I DO think that Suzuki, JK and possibly one of our D could end up being elite. 

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

If you can get a mid-low 1st round or high 2nd rounder you probably take the bite ... if not, you let him walk in the summer.    Sure you could argue it gives Caufield more time, but I doubt Caufield is here in the next 2-3 years given he chose college over AHL.   

This team should be focusing on getting younger, not adding aging veterans.   And what message are we sending Price/Weber?  In my opnion they should be shipped out too by the draft.   

Next year, Kovalchuk would be 37, Price 33, Weber 35, Petry 33 ...  That'd be fine if the rest of our lineup was carrying the load and were more talented.  But they're not.  Keeping those 4 guys simply relies on vets on the decline to be your "elite" players.

Absolutely, I'd certainly trade him for a first rounder but I think there's more upside in keeping him vs. drafting a Jacob de la Rose or Zachary Fucale. Could also be a Romanov or even a Subban though, so you never know for sure. Anyway, the message we'd be sending is that we're going to add a potential future hall of famer to the team instead of going for a fire sale and entering full rebuild mode with even more prospects on the roster next season. Sure, the guys you mentioned are all on the wrong side of 30 but the rest of the team, which will be our core in a few years, is actually quite young.

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Im not sure, personally.  I mean if you can get a decent pick or prospect for him this is a free asset right? We just signed him for nothing & can now turn around & get something for him? Great!!  but on the other hand, as you said (small sample size) but he's looked terrific.  I think Julien really likes having him too.   Id certainly consider keeping him.  Im confident his skating will make him useful for a least another year or two.  Does that mean he'll score at a PPG? no. But even a 45-55 point Kovalchuk on this roster would be welcome if he doesnt break the bank.

Yeah, trading him is definitely the right move from a business standpoint, but a 40-50 point winger with size, good speed, and a ton of skill is something we're probably not going to find elsewhere without paying through the nose. He's also really useful on the PP and probably the best shooter we currently have on the team. I could see it work out on a short-term deal. I mean he may well end up with the same point totals as a guy like Kreider next season – at a fraction of the cost on a more favorable contract.

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2 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Yeah, trading him is definitely the right move from a business standpoint, but a 40-50 point winger with size, good speed, and a ton of skill is something we're probably not going to find elsewhere without paying through the nose. He's also really useful on the PP and probably the best shooter we currently have on the team. I could see it work out on a short-term deal. I mean he may well end up with the same point totals as a guy like Kreider next season – at a fraction of the cost on a more favorable contract.

He's the kind of guy that if you didnt have to rely on him  (like we shouldnt have to, when everyone is healthy) who can be a difference maker.  Even if he's a 40 point player, those points will be coming (ideally) from your 3rd line. Thats a huge bonus.  He has the skills and the visions still, he just lacks a step (but he's still quite a good skater).  

I feel like if you could somehow have Kovalchuk on this roster, on the 3rd line (Maybe Drouin - JK - Kovalchuk) it would be an unbelievably good move. 

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

He's the kind of guy that if you didnt have to rely on him  (like we shouldnt have to, when everyone is healthy) who can be a difference maker.  Even if he's a 40 point player, those points will be coming (ideally) from your 3rd line. Thats a huge bonus.  He has the skills and the visions still, he just lacks a step (but he's still quite a good skater).  

I feel like if you could somehow have Kovalchuk on this roster, on the 3rd line (Maybe Drouin - JK - Kovalchuk) it would be an unbelievably good move. 

The thing about Kovalchuk is that at least for a short period, he's looked like he's ten years younger than he actually is... he's skating pretty well, he's got a big frame and isn't getting muscled around by younger guys, and his shot is still elite. I've always talked about the value in players who bring a skill to the table you don't have, and Kovalchuk has a shot that no one else does and that replaces what we lost when we dealt Galchenyuk. I think he fills a niche and if you can sign him to a reasonable short-term contract (1 or 2 years) then it makes sense. It also allows you to maybe trade another player for assets...

As for Caufield, I don't think Kovalchuk being here changes your plan for Caufield. He's made it pretty clear that he would have signed here in September if the Habs felt he would have made the roster and he's made it pretty clear he wants to turn pro after his college season is over if the Habs want him to as well. If he too can perform right away, I don't see a reason why Kovalchuk and Caufield can't co-exist on this team. It would be an easy move to keep Suzuki at center, and he might just be the center with the highest ceiling here. And Kovalchuk for what it's worth can play LW too.

If anything, having younger, cost-controlled players who are ready means you can look at moving guys who are heading towards the downside of their careers and over-priced contracts, and it means you can acquire other assets for these guys instead (which can then be stockpiled or moved for other established players that fit our needs better).

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20 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

The thing about Kovalchuk is that at least for a short period, he's looked like he's ten years younger than he actually is... he's skating pretty well, he's got a big frame and isn't getting muscled around by younger guys, and his shot is still elite. I've always talked about the value in players who bring a skill to the table you don't have, and Kovalchuk has a shot that no one else does and that replaces what we lost when we dealt Galchenyuk. I think he fills a niche and if you can sign him to a reasonable short-term contract (1 or 2 years) then it makes sense. It also allows you to maybe trade another player for assets...

As for Caufield, I don't think Kovalchuk being here changes your plan for Caufield. He's made it pretty clear that he would have signed here in September if the Habs felt he would have made the roster and he's made it pretty clear he wants to turn pro after his college season is over if the Habs want him to as well. If he too can perform right away, I don't see a reason why Kovalchuk and Caufield can't co-exist on this team. It would be an easy move to keep Suzuki at center, and he might just be the center with the highest ceiling here. And Kovalchuk for what it's worth can play LW too.

If anything, having younger, cost-controlled players who are ready means you can look at moving guys who are heading towards the downside of their careers and over-priced contracts, and it means you can acquire other assets for these guys instead (which can then be stockpiled or moved for other established players that fit our needs better).

I have never understood why fans always want older players coming off a good year traded. Even if they are at their highest value sometimes the best thing to do is resign them on a year by year preformace based contract. Kovalchuk maybe has 2 years left, we could probably resign him now for 2 years at 4.5 Mil and he would be happy. We would have another elite talent even if it's just long enough for Caufield to develop. Weber is on pace for his best year in a long time so we should trade him for a bunch of unknown, unproven prospects and picks. Tatar is our leading scorer so we need to trade him too. Petry is one of the teams best D men he has to go. I never understood why teams win the cup then before the next season even begins start trading off the players that got them to where they are. Price, Petry, Weber and Gallagher have done more for this team then most fans recognize they fight day in and day out to be the leaders and hero's to other players around them and fans in the stands. Those are the guys that you want to show loyalty to by keeping them until they retire if that's what they want to do. A 40 year old Weber will always be better than a 25 year old Gardiner. How many fans would have wanted to trade Beleveau or Henri Richard or Maurice Richard for picks or prospects cause they were getting over 30? It's nonsense to me.

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57 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I have never understood why fans always want older players coming off a good year traded. Even if they are at their highest value sometimes the best thing to do is resign them on a year by year preformace based contract. Kovalchuk maybe has 2 years left, we could probably resign him now for 2 years at 4.5 Mil and he would be happy. We would have another elite talent even if it's just long enough for Caufield to develop. Weber is on pace for his best year in a long time so we should trade him for a bunch of unknown, unproven prospects and picks. Tatar is our leading scorer so we need to trade him too. Petry is one of the teams best D men he has to go. I never understood why teams win the cup then before the next season even begins start trading off the players that got them to where they are. Price, Petry, Weber and Gallagher have done more for this team then most fans recognize they fight day in and day out to be the leaders and hero's to other players around them and fans in the stands. Those are the guys that you want to show loyalty to by keeping them until they retire if that's what they want to do. A 40 year old Weber will always be better than a 25 year old Gardiner. How many fans would have wanted to trade Beleveau or Henri Richard or Maurice Richard for picks or prospects cause they were getting over 30? It's nonsense to me.

I agree completely. It also sends the message to current players and free agents that you are definitely expendable and loyalty means nothing.

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I have never understood why fans always want older players coming off a good year traded. Even if they are at their highest value sometimes the best thing to do is resign them on a year by year preformace based contract. Kovalchuk maybe has 2 years left, we could probably resign him now for 2 years at 4.5 Mil and he would be happy. We would have another elite talent even if it's just long enough for Caufield to develop. Weber is on pace for his best year in a long time so we should trade him for a bunch of unknown, unproven prospects and picks. Tatar is our leading scorer so we need to trade him too. Petry is one of the teams best D men he has to go. I never understood why teams win the cup then before the next season even begins start trading off the players that got them to where they are. Price, Petry, Weber and Gallagher have done more for this team then most fans recognize they fight day in and day out to be the leaders and hero's to other players around them and fans in the stands. Those are the guys that you want to show loyalty to by keeping them until they retire if that's what they want to do. A 40 year old Weber will always be better than a 25 year old Gardiner. How many fans would have wanted to trade Beleveau or Henri Richard or Maurice Richard for picks or prospects cause they were getting over 30? It's nonsense to me.

:6280: Ya know, Kovlachuk is like Radulov. I really hope that we don't trade or let him walk.

 

Edited by kinot-2
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4 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I have never understood why fans always want older players coming off a good year traded. Even if they are at their highest value sometimes the best thing to do is resign them on a year by year preformace based contract. Kovalchuk maybe has 2 years left, we could probably resign him now for 2 years at 4.5 Mil and he would be happy. We would have another elite talent even if it's just long enough for Caufield to develop. Weber is on pace for his best year in a long time so we should trade him for a bunch of unknown, unproven prospects and picks. Tatar is our leading scorer so we need to trade him too. Petry is one of the teams best D men he has to go. I never understood why teams win the cup then before the next season even begins start trading off the players that got them to where they are. Price, Petry, Weber and Gallagher have done more for this team then most fans recognize they fight day in and day out to be the leaders and hero's to other players around them and fans in the stands. Those are the guys that you want to show loyalty to by keeping them until they retire if that's what they want to do. A 40 year old Weber will always be better than a 25 year old Gardiner. How many fans would have wanted to trade Beleveau or Henri Richard or Maurice Richard for picks or prospects cause they were getting over 30? It's nonsense to me.

Of course that's the best thing but those players we're talking about usually won't sign a performance-based contract on a yearly basis, why would they? They have zero incentive to do so. Kovalchuk is an exception, not the rule. That's why he could be the ideal stop-gap, we didn't spend any assets to acquire him, he fills a need, he has performed well so far and will likely keep doing so 1-2 years down the road, he'll likely sign a short-term deal, and probably won't break the bank. There's no other player in the league who does the same for us and checks all those boxes.

As for Beliveau or Richard, the salary cap didn't exist at the time, so cap management was a non-issue plus it was a completely different game to boot. Today, the entire idea behind trading older players while they still have value is about maximizing asset value instead of handcuffing yourself with inflated contracts players realistically can't live up to. The problem isn't Weber, his contract was signed many years ago and if he retires early that's Nasvhille's problem. The question is what are you going to do with Petry when he demands +6M/year for 4 years at age 34? Nobody said we need to trade our leading scorer, the question is whether Tatar's the guy you want for ~7M/year on a long-term deal when his current deal is up because that's what it'll likely cost to keep him. If the answer is no, you should definitely look into getting the best possible return for him while you still can, i.e. this or next season. What if Kovalchuk keeps his PPG pace over the next 30 games and suddenly wants +5M for 3 years or he walks? Signing players to extensions because you want to show everyone that you're loyal is nonsense to me, a good GM needs to be proactive and thinks ahead. Bergevin hasn't done that on many occasions. But hey, maybe he comes up with a few more of his take-it-or-leave-it offers that'll leave him scrambling plugging the holes he's created for another five years.

 

Edited by ChiLla
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3 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Of course that's the best thing but those players we're talking about usually won't sign a performance-based contract on a yearly basis, why would they? They have zero incentive to do so. Kovalchuk is an exception, not the rule. That's why he could be the ideal stop-gap, we didn't spend any assets to acquire him, he fills a need, he has performed well so far and will likely keep doing so 1-2 years down the road, he'll likely sign a short-term deal, and probably won't break the bank. There's no other player in the league who does the same for us and checks all those boxes.

As for Beliveau or Richard, the salary cap didn't exist at the time, so cap management was a non-issue plus it was a completely different game to boot. Today, the entire idea behind trading older players while they still have value is about maximizing asset value instead of handcuffing yourself with inflated contracts players realistically can't live up to. The problem isn't Weber, his contract was signed many years ago and if he retires early that's Nasvhille's problem. The question is what are you going to do with Petry when he demands +6M/year for 4 years at age 34? Nobody said we need to trade our leading scorer, the question is whether Tatar's the guy you want for ~7M/year on a long-term deal when his current deal is up because that's what it'll likely cost to keep him. If the answer is no, you should definitely look into getting the best possible return for him while you still can, i.e. this or next season. What if Kovalchuk keeps his PPG pace over the next 30 games and suddenly wants +5M for 3 years or he walks? Signing players to extensions because you want to show everyone that you're loyal is nonsense to me, a good GM needs to be proactive and thinks ahead. Bergevin hasn't done that on many occasions. But hey, maybe he comes up with a few more of his take-it-or-leave-it offers that'll leave him scrambling plugging the holes he's created for another five years.

 

I hate Bergevin and his stupid tàke it or leave it deals but letting a guy like Petry ot Tatar walk or trading him to save what 1-1.5 mil on his contract is stupid. It makes the team worse not better. Would you trade Crosby, Ovechkin or McKinnon at 32-34? Of course not Price and Weber are just as elite as they are.

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Sportsnet did a poll of 392 players that's about half the league. Of the 392 33% said in game 7 of the cup final the one goalie they would want in net is Price the next closest was Fluery at 25% they even went as far as saying the don't care how he has played in the months leading up to the playoff he is the guy

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