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Trying to compare keeping older players today to the past is not possible. Past players like the Richard's and Beliveau's belonged to their clubs for as long as the team wanted. UFA status was non existent. All the power belonged to the Club. It's a totally different situation today where clubs need to balance a Cap with how much value an aging player will have on the numbers going forward, and that's where you get having to move players for younger assets. Sure it would be nice to keep the Petry's,, Weber's, Tatar's and other aging stars but realistically it can't be done in this era. Your younger guys will need new deals down the road too and if you try to keep everybody today, you pay the price tomorrow.

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I hate Bergevin and his stupid tàke it or leave it deals but letting a guy like Petry ot Tatar walk or trading him to save what 1-1.5 mil on his contract is stupid. It makes the team worse not better. Would you trade Crosby, Ovechkin or McKinnon at 32-34? Of course not Price and Weber are just as elite as they are.

You trade Petry or Tatar for the right offer and get valuable players/prospects/picks in return, not to save 1-1.5 mil on their contracts. Has the Pacioretty deal made us worse?

Also, we're talking about Petry and Tatar, who never were and never will be in the same category as Crosby, Ovechkin, or McKinnon. I've said repeatedly that I wouldn't trade Price or Weber unless someone comes along with a ridiculous offer you just can't refuse, which isn't going to happen anyway.

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49 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Trying to compare keeping older players today to the past is not possible. Past players like the Richard's and Beliveau's belonged to their clubs for as long as the team wanted. UFA status was non existent. All the power belonged to the Club. It's a totally different situation today where clubs need to balance a Cap with how much value an aging player will have on the numbers going forward, and that's where you get having to move players for younger assets. Sure it would be nice to keep the Petry's,, Weber's, Tatar's and other aging stars but realistically it can't be done in this era. Your younger guys will need new deals down the road too and if you try to keep everybody today, you pay the price tomorrow.

And retaining older players on the decline reduces any return you get for them as well.      I don't think Price, Weber, Petry, Tatar have ever been more valuable.    If we could turn those 3 of those guys into 2-4 1st round picks, 2-4 2nd round picks and 2-3 A+ prospects ... we'd be set for the next 5-10 years.  We'd also be retaining vets like Gallagher, Danault, Drouin, Domi, Armia, Lehkonen etc.   Holding on to the others to "try and make the playoffs" this year, and possibly go through this same gong show next year ... we won't get the same return for them that we will right now.

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9 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

You trade Petry or Tatar for the right offer and get valuable players/prospects/picks in return, not to save 1-1.5 mil on their contracts. Has the Pacioretty deal made us worse?

Also, we're talking about Petry and Tatar, who never were and never will be in the same category as Crosby, Ovechkin, or McKinnon. I've said repeatedly that I wouldn't trade Price or Weber unless someone comes along with a ridiculous offer you just can't refuse, which isn't going to happen anyway.

Here's one ... 

Price + Weber to Edmonton

From Edmonton 

Sam Gagner (UFA), one of their 2 goalies, Kris Russell,  Evan Bouchard (10th overall), Jesse Puljujarvi (4th overall) and their 1st round and 2nd rounds this year.

Gagner/Russell are throw aways.   If we get Koskinen, he's on contract for 3 years and could be the starter till Primeau is ready.   We also get Bouchard a blue chip RD prospect, JP who has found his game again in Finland and fits in well with KK, Armia, Lehkonen (and Koskinen) to make us Little Finland.   And a low 1st round pick.  

To me that's an excellent haul ... 2 top prospects, and 2 picks to supplement our other picks this draft.    The side benefit is, you get Primeau more games as the backup next year.   Your RD next year is Petry, Fleury and one of Bouchard, Juulsen, Brook .. whoever is ready, you had a potential top 6 forward in JP and you still have those 2 picks to develop.

Domi - Suzuki - Gallagher

Drouin - KK - Pulujarvi

Lehkonen - Danault - Armia

Byron - Poehling - Cousins

 

Chiarot - Petry

Mete - Fleury

Romanov - Brook/Bouchard/Juulsen

Koskinen - Primeau

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3 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I hate Bergevin and his stupid tàke it or leave it deals but letting a guy like Petry ot Tatar walk or trading him to save what 1-1.5 mil on his contract is stupid. It makes the team worse not better. Would you trade Crosby, Ovechkin or McKinnon at 32-34? Of course not Price and Weber are just as elite as they are.

Price/Weber are not in the same league as Crosby/Ovechkin

First, those two guys are generational ... Price might have been, but ... and here's the clincher ... Crosby/Ovechkin have actually won cups.   And Weber might be considered one of the best Dman in the last 10 years, and he hasn't won squat either.

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29 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

And retaining older players on the decline reduces any return you get for them as well.      I don't think Price, Weber, Petry, Tatar have ever been more valuable.    If we could turn those 3 of those guys into 2-4 1st round picks, 2-4 2nd round picks and 2-3 A+ prospects ... we'd be set for the next 5-10 years.  We'd also be retaining vets like Gallagher, Danault, Drouin, Domi, Armia, Lehkonen etc.   Holding on to the others to "try and make the playoffs" this year, and possibly go through this same gong show next year ... we won't get the same return for them that we will right now.

Even if you get all those assets your banking on luck just as those of us who hope to make the playoffs are. You can't garuntee how many of those prospects or picks actually make the team or if they will be better or worse than what we gave up. I would say based on the teams getting th OS guys being contenders your looking at best a 50% success rate and probably lower than 25% chance any of those guys are impact players. 

 

28 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Here's one ... 

Price + Weber to Edmonton

From Edmonton 

Sam Gagner (UFA), one of their 2 goalies, Kris Russell,  Evan Bouchard (10th overall), Jesse Puljujarvi (4th overall) and their 1st round and 2nd rounds this year.

Gagner/Russell are throw aways.   If we get Koskinen, he's on contract for 3 years and could be the starter till Primeau is ready.   We also get Bouchard a blue chip RD prospect, JP who has found his game again in Finland and fits in well with KK, Armia, Lehkonen (and Koskinen) to make us Little Finland.   And a low 1st round pick.  

To me that's an excellent haul ... 2 top prospects, and 2 picks to supplement our other picks this draft.    The side benefit is, you get Primeau more games as the backup next year.   Your RD next year is Petry, Fleury and one of Bouchard, Juulsen, Brook .. whoever is ready, you had a potential top 6 forward in JP and you still have those 2 picks to develop.

Domi - Suzuki - Gallagher

Drouin - KK - Pulujarvi

Lehkonen - Danault - Armia

Byron - Poehling - Cousins

 

Chiarot - Petry

Mete - Fleury

Romanov - Brook/Bouchard/Juulsen

Koskinen - Primeau

So the only proven player you want in return for our 2 biggest assets is a average goalie?!  Plus you missed placing Tatar in the lineup. If Edmonton goes on to win 2 rounds then our 1st we got is like 20-30th and likely is a long shot to even make the team ever so what the real "Haul" is is an average goalie, an unproven prospect, 2 throw aways and a bunch of hopes and dreams.

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The only guys that I see moving at the deadline are Petry and Kovalchuk. That would only happen if the deal was too good to pass on. Could see those two going to the Oilers and putting them really in contention. No reason we cannot resign Kovalchuk in the summer. 

Unless Tatar wants to leave I see him staying here and resigning.

Price and Weber are more draft day or summer moves. When you really know what you are getting.

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  I'm for not having a fire sale ...unless Montreal is getting back something they  absolutely can't refuse and I don't think that is happening either . I would rather Montreal take a flyer on Kovalchuk and sign him to 2 more years before the end of the year  hopefully at around $3.5 to 4 mill per ...I just read after the 8th loss Kovy took the whole team out for dinner and they won 4 of the next 5 games ...that's who you want on your team not a hit or miss late 2nd or 3rd round pick 

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51 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Even if you get all those assets your banking on luck just as those of us who hope to make the playoffs are. You can't garuntee how many of those prospects or picks actually make the team or if they will be better or worse than what we gave up. I would say based on the teams getting th OS guys being contenders your looking at best a 50% success rate and probably lower than 25% chance any of those guys are impact players. 

 

So the only proven player you want in return for our 2 biggest assets is a average goalie?!  Plus you missed placing Tatar in the lineup. If Edmonton goes on to win 2 rounds then our 1st we got is like 20-30th and likely is a long shot to even make the team ever so what the real "Haul" is is an average goalie, an unproven prospect, 2 throw aways and a bunch of hopes and dreams.

Yup ... because why do we need a proven player back?   The idea is to use your two biggest assets to get as many top prospects as possible ... that are all maturing when guys like Drouin, Domi, Suzuki, KK, Poehling are the leaders ... if you're trying to get "proven" talent, then your trying to win now, which this current team is never going to do.

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

Yup ... because why do we need a proven player back?   The idea is to use your two biggest assets to get as many top prospects as possible ... that are all maturing when guys like Drouin, Domi, Suzuki, KK, Poehling are the leaders ... if you're trying to get "proven" talent, then your trying to win now, which this current team is never going to do.

I guess I am just too greedy then cause all I want is to always win the cup now!

My point that your missing is this, maybe none of the picks or prospects you traded Price and Weber for make it to the NHL as someone pointed out before after the 15th pick at any given draft the odds of a player making the NHL are less than 50% that is just making the roster. So you trade Price and Weber to a contender and they give you 2 first rounders in the 20-30 range those players are just as likely not to even be here when guys like Drouin, Domi, Suzuki, KK and Poehling are maturing forget about the later round picks. How does that make us contenders in 3-5 years if we still basically have the same team then as we do now without factoring in any of our own picks? only way I trade Weber or Price is for a proven under 25 player + 1st + A+ prospect and if its within the conference add a 2nd as well or another 1st within the division.

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56 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I guess I am just too greedy then cause all I want is to always win the cup now!

My point that your missing is this, maybe none of the picks or prospects you traded Price and Weber for make it to the NHL as someone pointed out before after the 15th pick at any given draft the odds of a player making the NHL are less than 50% that is just making the roster. So you trade Price and Weber to a contender and they give you 2 first rounders in the 20-30 range those players are just as likely not to even be here when guys like Drouin, Domi, Suzuki, KK and Poehling are maturing forget about the later round picks. How does that make us contenders in 3-5 years if we still basically have the same team then as we do now without factoring in any of our own picks? only way I trade Weber or Price is for a proven under 25 player + 1st + A+ prospect and if its within the conference add a 2nd as well or another 1st within the division.

Yeah I get that, but ... my main point is you maximize your chance at return by trading Price, one of Weber/Petry, Kovalchuk, Tatar NOW as opposed to when their value goes down.    We are not making the playoffs this year, and I highly doubt we make it with this roster next year.

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30 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Yeah I get that, but ... my main point is you maximize your chance at return by trading Price, one of Weber/Petry, Kovalchuk, Tatar NOW as opposed to when their value goes down.    We are not making the playoffs this year, and I highly doubt we make it with this roster next year.

That is the real trick & the sign of a great GM. Its like selling stocks. Sure the value could go up slightly but if you sell close to the high point, you're laughing.

We waited too long with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk but in both cases we got very lucky that the returns ended up being better than anyone expected. 

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16 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I have never understood why fans always want older players coming off a good year traded. Even if they are at their highest value sometimes the best thing to do is resign them on a year by year preformace based contract. Kovalchuk maybe has 2 years left, we could probably resign him now for 2 years at 4.5 Mil and he would be happy. We would have another elite talent even if it's just long enough for Caufield to develop. Weber is on pace for his best year in a long time so we should trade him for a bunch of unknown, unproven prospects and picks. Tatar is our leading scorer so we need to trade him too. Petry is one of the teams best D men he has to go. I never understood why teams win the cup then before the next season even begins start trading off the players that got them to where they are. Price, Petry, Weber and Gallagher have done more for this team then most fans recognize they fight day in and day out to be the leaders and hero's to other players around them and fans in the stands. Those are the guys that you want to show loyalty to by keeping them until they retire if that's what they want to do. A 40 year old Weber will always be better than a 25 year old Gardiner. How many fans would have wanted to trade Beleveau or Henri Richard or Maurice Richard for picks or prospects cause they were getting over 30? It's nonsense to me.

I think the issue is Bergevin has really done nothing to try to get this team out of mediocrity thereby wasting the talents of older players. It just becomes a cycle from year to year. Ship this guy out, bring this guy in. Rinse, repeat. I'm not saying a decent LHD-man would solve all our woes but unless MB grows a pair and tries to trade some young talent for actual LHD help this cycle will continue. I guess you could say the Habs aren't taking advantage of our older players and they, the Habs, aren't helping them either.

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5 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Price/Weber are not in the same league as Crosby/Ovechkin

First, those two guys are generational ... Price might have been, but ... and here's the clincher ... Crosby/Ovechkin have actually won cups.   And Weber might be considered one of the best Dman in the last 10 years, and he hasn't won squat either.

LOL.....you make it seem like Crosby and Ovechkin won the cup by themselves without contributions from any other player. 

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9 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

LOL.....you make it seem like Crosby and Ovechkin won the cup by themselves without contributions from any other player. 

nope, but Weber/Price don't deserve to be in the same conversation as them ... Price maybe, but what exactly has he done to earn it?   2008/2009 for example ... that cup win was all Crosby/Malkin ... combined they had 77 pts in 24 games.   The 3rd plce guy on the team had 15 ... so yeah, it was ALL Crosby and Malkin.    Do you think Price/Weber right now would carry us to a cup?  I don't.

Weber has been no deeper than the 2nd round in the playoffs, and Price the conference finals.      If people want to tout how those two are elite, then their eliteness has not translated into success.     And given their current ages, that's unlikely to change given the Habs current roster either ... right now, those 2 would have value to a team trying to secure a playoff spot or trying to push to the cup .. their added skill might tip the balance.    Keeping them around here only diminishes the return we get next year or the one after and they're certainly not going to get any better as they age.

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7 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Price/Weber are not in the same league as Crosby/Ovechkin

First, those two guys are generational ... Price might have been, but ... and here's the clincher ... Crosby/Ovechkin have actually won cups.   And Weber might be considered one of the best Dman in the last 10 years, and he hasn't won squat either.

McDavid might go his whole career as many other star players have done without ever winning a cup. Ovie has won one cup there are several 2nd string players that have won multiple. The latest pole by the actual players this year had Weber as the #2 defenseman in the league this year! But this is only by the actual NHL players that are playing the game right now. 

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6 hours ago, arpem-can said:

  I'm for not having a fire sale ...unless Montreal is getting back something they  absolutely can't refuse and I don't think that is happening either . I would rather Montreal take a flyer on Kovalchuk and sign him to 2 more years before the end of the year  hopefully at around $3.5 to 4 mill per ...I just read after the 8th loss Kovy took the whole team out for dinner and they won 4 of the next 5 games ...that's who you want on your team not a hit or miss late 2nd or 3rd round pick 

I agree and he also bought Kulak a Rolex for giving up his jersey #. He has fit in , has size doesn't look out of place has great hands and great shot. If we could sign him for two years I say absolutely!

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Yeah I get that, but ... my main point is you maximize your chance at return by trading Price, one of Weber/Petry, Kovalchuk, Tatar NOW as opposed to when their value goes down.    We are not making the playoffs this year, and I highly doubt we make it with this roster next year.

I'm not losing hope for this year , but it is a long shot. The way Suzuki has progressed Armia has looked great Drouin was playing great adding Kovy, maybe Colefield Poehling has looked strong. With the full roster in place. I think this same group can make the playoffs next season. If Price plays normal we use Primeau or get a decent backup. We could definitely make the playoffs next year! Drouin, Domi, Suzuki, Kovy, JK and Tatar , Gallagher , Danault , Poehling . Hope fully Romanov maybe Colfield . There actually is some talent there.

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

nope, but Weber/Price don't deserve to be in the same conversation as them ... Price maybe, but what exactly has he done to earn it?   2008/2009 for example ... that cup win was all Crosby/Malkin ... combined they had 77 pts in 24 games.   The 3rd plce guy on the team had 15 ... so yeah, it was ALL Crosby and Malkin.    Do you think Price/Weber right now would carry us to a cup?  I don't.

Weber has been no deeper than the 2nd round in the playoffs, and Price the conference finals.      If people want to tout how those two are elite, then their eliteness has not translated into success.     And given their current ages, that's unlikely to change given the Habs current roster either ... right now, those 2 would have value to a team trying to secure a playoff spot or trying to push to the cup .. their added skill might tip the balance.    Keeping them around here only diminishes the return we get next year or the one after and they're certainly not going to get any better as they age.

Wow back in 08/09 why hasn't Pittsburgh traded those guys since while their value is still high? Fluery also played great in net also. Even if they both had great playoff run that year they still as forwards probably play 20-25 minutes a night so nope they didn't do it by themselves!.

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12 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I'm not losing hope for this year , but it is a long shot. The way Suzuki has progressed Armia has looked great Drouin was playing great adding Kovy, maybe Colefield Poehling has looked strong. With the full roster in place. I think this same group can make the playoffs next season. If Price plays normal we use Primeau or get a decent backup. We could definitely make the playoffs next year! Drouin, Domi, Suzuki, Kovy, JK and Tatar , Gallagher , Danault , Poehling . Hope fully Romanov maybe Colfield . There actually is some talent there.

Agree on a degree of talent however most upper level teams have 1 maybe two dominating scoring players - hard to find within our group who those breakout players 35 goal or point per game players could be. We really need someone to step up maybe Drouin, maybe Suzuki but it’s not Kovy beyond 1 maybe 2 years. We’ve been reliant on Price for far too long. 
If Bergevin needs to move up in the draft to target a key player then give up our first and a second for a higher first pick with a better ceiling. 

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

nope, but Weber/Price don't deserve to be in the same conversation as them ... Price maybe, but what exactly has he done to earn it?   2008/2009 for example ... that cup win was all Crosby/Malkin ... combined they had 77 pts in 24 games.   The 3rd plce guy on the team had 15 ... so yeah, it was ALL Crosby and Malkin.    Do you think Price/Weber right now would carry us to a cup?  I don't.

Weber has been no deeper than the 2nd round in the playoffs, and Price the conference finals.      If people want to tout how those two are elite, then their eliteness has not translated into success.     And given their current ages, that's unlikely to change given the Habs current roster either ... right now, those 2 would have value to a team trying to secure a playoff spot or trying to push to the cup .. their added skill might tip the balance.    Keeping them around here only diminishes the return we get next year or the one after and they're certainly not going to get any better as they age.

So if the definition of a great player is based on whether or not they have won a cup then I guess guys like Adam Oats, Paul Maria, Marcel Dione, Daniael Alfredsson, Cam Neely and Daryl Sittler were average players and don't deserve to be in the same conversation as Malkin, Crosby, Lang, Murray or hell even Chris Thornburn won a cup last year with the blues so he must be better than all of them too. 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

So if the definition of a great player is based on whether or not they have won a cup then I guess guys like Adam Oats, Paul Maria, Marcel Dione, Daniael Alfredsson, Cam Neely and Daryl Sittler were average players and don't deserve to be in the same conversation as Malkin, Crosby, Lang, Murray or hell even Chris Thornburn won a cup last year with the blues so he must be better than all of them too. 

You're being obtuse and you know exactly what I'm driving at.    

Price/Weber are not in the same category as Crosby/Ovechkin

 

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46 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

You're being obtuse and you know exactly what I'm driving at.    

Price/Weber are not in the same category as Crosby/Ovechkin

 

So I am being obtuse cause you didn't like the facts. Here are some more for you the let's just compare goalies. Lunkvist, Belfour, Joseph, Luongo, vanbiesbrouck, Kippersoff, kolzig and Hextall all great some hall of gamers never won a cup though so they can't be in the same convo either! Man we are really narrowing the field of great players down fast! How's that for obtuse?

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16 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Of course that's the best thing but those players we're talking about usually won't sign a performance-based contract on a yearly basis, why would they? They have zero incentive to do so. Kovalchuk is an exception, not the rule. That's why he could be the ideal stop-gap, we didn't spend any assets to acquire him, he fills a need, he has performed well so far and will likely keep doing so 1-2 years down the road, he'll likely sign a short-term deal, and probably won't break the bank. There's no other player in the league who does the same for us and checks all those boxes.

As for Beliveau or Richard, the salary cap didn't exist at the time, so cap management was a non-issue plus it was a completely different game to boot. Today, the entire idea behind trading older players while they still have value is about maximizing asset value instead of handcuffing yourself with inflated contracts players realistically can't live up to. The problem isn't Weber, his contract was signed many years ago and if he retires early that's Nasvhille's problem. The question is what are you going to do with Petry when he demands +6M/year for 4 years at age 34? Nobody said we need to trade our leading scorer, the question is whether Tatar's the guy you want for ~7M/year on a long-term deal when his current deal is up because that's what it'll likely cost to keep him. If the answer is no, you should definitely look into getting the best possible return for him while you still can, i.e. this or next season. What if Kovalchuk keeps his PPG pace over the next 30 games and suddenly wants +5M for 3 years or he walks? Signing players to extensions because you want to show everyone that you're loyal is nonsense to me, a good GM needs to be proactive and thinks ahead. Bergevin hasn't done that on many occasions. But hey, maybe he comes up with a few more of his take-it-or-leave-it offers that'll leave him scrambling plugging the holes he's created for another five years.

Agreed with your very common-sense assessment. I'd say this is my view of cap and asset management:

- You can't win without drafting well. You look at the Pittsburgh and Chicago and Washington Cup wins and so on and they were fueled by rock-solid draft picks at the top of the draft. It doesn't mean they had great scouting more than just being the worst team in the league at the right time, but they did what they had to do to put the core of their teams together. You also look at stalwarts of the '90s like Colorado and New Jersey and Detroit and they were built on the backs of Joe Sakic's and Scott Niedermayer's and Martin Brodeur's and Sergei Fedorov's and Nik Lidstrom's and so on. Doesn't mean all the draft picks had to be 1st rounders, but many were, and the bottom line is that the large majority of teams that win Cups have their nucleus built around who they've picked.

- The need to build around draft picks is even more pronounced in the cap era. If a player is good, then by the time they're due for their 2nd or 3rd contracts, they're cashing in. The only way to be able to squeeze talent under the cap is to have a decent number of cost-controlled assets on your roster. That means having talent on ELC's or taking gambles on signing long-term deals on players before they hit their peak or getting lucky once in a while.

- If you want sustained success, you have to be willing to part with aging players while they're still good. No one is giving you a 1st round pick and their top prospect for 36 year-old Shea Weber or 34 year-old Carey Price or 35 year-old Tomas Plekanec or so on. For the most part (other than with a couple of crazy GM's), no one is giving you a player of value for nothing. So most trades a team makes are either trading players for comparable ones at a different position, or they're trades where a player has worn out his welcome and needs a fresh start, or they're trades where one team with a better chance at a Cup now acquires current talent in exchange for giving future talent to a team that wants to be competitive in the future. The thing in the cap era is that these cycles get shorter and shorter because more young players are playing impact roles and more older players are getting forced out of the game because they can't keep up with the speed and strength of the younger ones. So now, you can't swap your 32 year-old for a 22 year-old, you're looking more at swapping your 28 year-old for a 19 year-old...

- Every team also needs veterans and role players. The catch to it is when you consider all of the above, you have to be able to find guys who fit your schema and who fit your Cup window at the right time. You can't have 15 guys who are 23-27 and all on their 2nd contracts that are lucrative and long-term. You need to have a few rookies on near minimum-wage and a few vets on prove-it contracts and you need to look at acquiring a more expensive rental (maybe for half a season or with the other team retaining some salary) when the time is right to make your all-in push.

All that to say that IMO, the Habs aren't in a place where they can make an all-in push. If anything, it seems like Bergevin completely missed the boar when he had a chance to win with Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Markov, Gallagher, etc. as his core. This is why many criticized his Weber trade, because he shortened the window in which to win a Cup. He managed to salvage something from Pacioretty, but he went past prime on Plekanec and he is going past prime on some of his other vets like Price, Weber, Tatar, and Petry now. A 28-year old scoring winger with a reasonable contract left for 1.5 years is a fantastic asset for a team with Cup aspirations to acquire. A 32 year-old D man who is still playing like a top-pairing guy and has 1.5 years left on his contract is a great asset. But a 30 year-old winger who just signed a 7-year deal for over 6M is not. A 34 year-old D man who's signed for 5 years at 6.5+M is not. There is a real concern that when Tatar and Petry hit free agency soon, we're either losing them for nothing or we're re-signing them for contracts we'll regret or we're signing them and finding we're unable to recoup value in a trade. No one is saying those players don't have value. They're some of our best players currently. And if we could keep Tatar and Petry and Weber around on a series of 1-year deals at 5M a year each, it would make sense to keep them. It just isn't going to happen.

In Kovalchuk's case, you have one of those guys on a prove-it contract. He's already past prime, he's getting 35+ guaranteed contracts where teams aren't going to want to risk cap hits they can't get out of long-term. So he's almost assuredly going to have to sign a 1 or 2 year deal for his next contract. That means the contract can come with less invested risk, which means it can make more sense for us than signing a Tatar or Petry for 5-7 years. It doesn't mean you can't trade him now and re-sign him in the off-season, but he's maybe a guy where the contract demands aren't going to hurt you as much risk-wise.

Otherwise, the team should be basing its plan around the focus of winning a Cup with Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Mete, Fleury, Primeau, Lehkonen, Poehling, Romanov, Ylonen, Brook, Juulsen, Caufield, and so on. You can still control cost on some of these players for a few more years. It gives you the flexibility to keep a few core veterans around, like a Gallagher or a Domi or a Danault or so on. It means that when you're ready, you can go out and trade a draft pick or prospect whose not ready to contribute in exchange for a veteran that puts you over the top, and the ideal guy to look for at that time will be a player in the same situation as a Tatar or Petry is now with us. Go find someone else's Tatar who can be a top 6 scorer. Go find their Petry, who can give you big quality minutes, and where neither guy is putting you on the hook for a long-term payment if you don't want it. If you're another team who is a top 5-8 challenger for the Cup, those two guys are exactly what you want to add, which is why it also makes sense for the Habs to capitalize on their value and bring in assets who will be able to assist in a Cup run for us in a couple of years.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

You're being obtuse and you know exactly what I'm driving at.    

Price/Weber are not in the same category as Crosby/Ovechkin

 

I like how you gloss over the rest of the names on the list as if your right lol. However 392 current players voted and 33% said Price is the guy they want in goal for game 7 of the cup finals and Weber was the 2nd best D man in the entire league but what do they know right they only play with them or against them.

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