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Montreal vs Philadelphia Series Thread


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Hmm... not the best memories. If I recall correctly, the last time we eliminated the Pens and faced the Flyers, some dude named Umberger channeled his inner Gretzky and essentially won the series on his own. I'd still rather face the Flyers than the Bolts though, even without Hedman.

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I haven't really seen playoff intensity so far in any series played. It's obvious no team is able to play that full out 60 minute game yet. The teams in the ranking games have been especially flat so far. We may see a couple of them knocked out in the 1st round IMO.

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28 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I haven't really seen playoff intensity so far in any series played. It's obvious no team is able to play that full out 60 minute game yet. The teams in the ranking games have been especially flat so far. We may see a couple of them knocked out in the 1st round IMO.

Hopefully the top in each conference.

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11 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Hmm... not the best memories. If I recall correctly, the last time we eliminated the Pens and faced the Flyers, some dude named Umberger channeled his inner Gretzky and essentially won the series on his own. I'd still rather face the Flyers than the Bolts though, even without Hedman.

I think Stamkos is questionable too though so that certainly would be a little easier.  I think we'd have trouble with either tbh. 

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11 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Hmm... not the best memories. If I recall correctly, the last time we eliminated the Pens and faced the Flyers, some dude named Umberger channeled his inner Gretzky and essentially won the series on his own. I'd still rather face the Flyers than the Bolts though, even without Hedman.

yup

Unlike then though, they arent a 'go through you' sort of team any more.  They are a lot like us in makeup and style. The problem is that they are pretty much better than us in every category.   Price is going to have to be otherworldly and Weber/Petry will need to continue to be great.

We really need guys like Tatar & Gallagher to start lighting the lamp too. 

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

yup

Unlike then though, they arent a 'go through you' sort of team any more.  They are a lot like us in makeup and style. The problem is that they are pretty much better than us in every category.   Price is going to have to be otherworldly and Weber/Petry will need to continue to be great.

We really need guys like Tatar & Gallagher to start lighting the lamp too. 

Absolutely, they do seem rather similar as far as playing styles. I don't follow the Flyers much but went through their most recent lineups this mornign and generally don't think we match up very well (going purely by feeling here, didn't compare any stats/advances stats). They don't seem to have any real studs on D though, so there's that. In addition to the guys you've mentioned, we also need a little more from Drouin I think. If those three can turn it on and the kids plus Price keep playing the way they did, this could be an interesting series. Wishful thinking? Maybe, maybe not. Let's see.

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:



We really need guys like Tatar & Gallagher to start lighting the lamp too. 

Add Domi and Armia to that list although Domi got a late training start and has no linemates yet. JD showed some life but i wouldn't say he's been all that effective either. The Flyers strength lie in their forechecking and our achiles seems to be in our own end. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. We are going to need our forwards to continue coming back to help out. 

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I feel like we have a chance to win this series!

Where are the Flyers better than us (top-six forwards? bottom-six forwards? down the middle? defense? in net?)? I'm not being confrontational. I'm actually just curious. I haven't watched any Philadelphia games this year. I'm interested in where we may have the advantage and be at a disadvantage? 

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12 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I feel like we have a chance to win this series!

Where are the Flyers better than us (top-six forwards? bottom-six forwards? down the middle? defense? in net?)? I'm not being confrontational. I'm actually just curious. I haven't watched any Philadelphia games this year. I'm interested in where we may have the advantage and be at a disadvantage? 

The Flyers are solid top to bottom. The biggest difference IMO is their consistency. They just don't have any bad stretches of play. They're beatable but they'll jump on any weak play or mistakes

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The Flyers have played really well this year under Vigneault. That said, it's a similar line-up to one that has under-achieved for years. Yes, they have Giroux and Voracek and Couturier, but they're generally-speaking not a team where you look at them on paper and see a powerhouse. They have a few good young D men, but again, not a guy who stands out as a clear #1 D man. And their goalie, while of a strong pedigree as a junior, hasn't played in the playoffs. The fact there are no fans might help Hart, but you've got to figure we have the advantage in goal.

What will help the Habs IMO is the long rest. The Habs have always been strong starters to the season and then faded down the stretch because they over-rely on a handful of players like Price and Weber/Subban and Petry and so on. The numbers clearly show that Price is a much better goalie when rested and Bergevin's failure to find any type of useful back-up has usually sunk us by year's end. But this year, you have a team that's going into the playoffs essentially like they're starting a new regular season fresh. I think that's a plus for us, and it's got to help Weber and Petry too, given how much of a drop-off there is on the D after them.

The keys to this series in my view are

1. For the Habs, a question of how many of their forwards are playing well. I think we're going to get what we think we're going to get from the D and goalies. Carey will stand on his head and keep us competitive. Petry and Weber will be key cogs and Kulak will play a role and the rest will be a crapshoot. But up front, we have talent in guys like Gallagher and Drouin and Domi and Suzuki and Armia and Tatar and Kotkaniemi and so on, and more of those guys will have to show up and score than did against Pittsburgh. We won't win more series if our best forwards are Kotkaniemi and Byron and Lehkonen.

2. For the Flyers, it's Hart. If we can rattle him like we usually used to get to MA Fleury, then they don't have much to turn to. He's young and he's inexperienced, and if he's not on his game mentally, the Flyers are going to have little time to figure out whether they ditch Hart and go to Elliot or stick it out with the youngster. The guys in front of Hart will grip their sticks a bit tighter and play to not make mistakes if they lose confidence in Hart's ability to play under pressure behind them. Sure, Carey could play poorly too, but players and coaches have faith that Carey has been there before and won big games, whereas Hart is unproven. If he lets in a soft goal or two early in the series, that could swing things in our favor.

Bottom line for me is that this is going to be much tougher than the Pens and we are certainly underdogs, but I think this series is winnable. We've traditionally done poorly against Philly in the playoffs but we've done well against them in the regular season recently and I think we match up better against them than we would have against Tampa's scorers, Hedman, and their superior goalie. There's more to exploit against Philly. Hopefully we do. Unlike the play-in, there's nothing to lose here by winning.

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2 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Absolutely, they do seem rather similar as far as playing styles. I don't follow the Flyers much but went through their most recent lineups this mornign and generally don't think we match up very well (going purely by feeling here, didn't compare any stats/advances stats). They don't seem to have any real studs on D though, so there's that. In addition to the guys you've mentioned, we also need a little more from Drouin I think. If those three can turn it on and the kids plus Price keep playing the way they did, this could be an interesting series. Wishful thinking? Maybe, maybe not. Let's see.

Actually id say Provorov is a stud.  Sandheim and Niskanen are good. Ghost is also strong but really not trusted there. 3rd pair these days.  But you're right, their big advantage is up front - but like the Pens, I believe our bottom 6 could be a problem for their bottom 6.

2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Add Domi and Armia to that list although Domi got a late training start and has no linemates yet. JD showed some life but i wouldn't say he's been all that effective either. The Flyers strength lie in their forechecking and our achiles seems to be in our own end. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. We are going to need our forwards to continue coming back to help out. 

Yup. Cant have (m)any passengers in this one if we have a hope to win.

 

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I feel like we have a chance to win this series!

Where are the Flyers better than us (top-six forwards? bottom-six forwards? down the middle? defense? in net?)? I'm not being confrontational. I'm actually just curious. I haven't watched any Philadelphia games this year. I'm interested in where we may have the advantage and be at a disadvantage? 

Their top 3 fowards are considerably better than ours - BUT - id say that if you look at 12 vs 12 we're deeper.  We might even have a stronger top 9.   On defense they have 1 stud and several very good D men.  I think we are close (different though in how our D balances out).  In net, if Carey plays like last round, he's peerless. But Hart is very good. 

32 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

The Flyers have played really well this year under Vigneault. That said, it's a similar line-up to one that has under-achieved for years. Yes, they have Giroux and Voracek and Couturier, but they're generally-speaking not a team where you look at them on paper and see a powerhouse. They have a few good young D men, but again, not a guy who stands out as a clear #1 D man. And their goalie, while of a strong pedigree as a junior, hasn't played in the playoffs. The fact there are no fans might help Hart, but you've got to figure we have the advantage in goal.

What will help the Habs IMO is the long rest. The Habs have always been strong starters to the season and then faded down the stretch because they over-rely on a handful of players like Price and Weber/Subban and Petry and so on. The numbers clearly show that Price is a much better goalie when rested and Bergevin's failure to find any type of useful back-up has usually sunk us by year's end. But this year, you have a team that's going into the playoffs essentially like they're starting a new regular season fresh. I think that's a plus for us, and it's got to help Weber and Petry too, given how much of a drop-off there is on the D after them.

The keys to this series in my view are

1. For the Habs, a question of how many of their forwards are playing well. I think we're going to get what we think we're going to get from the D and goalies. Carey will stand on his head and keep us competitive. Petry and Weber will be key cogs and Kulak will play a role and the rest will be a crapshoot. But up front, we have talent in guys like Gallagher and Drouin and Domi and Suzuki and Armia and Tatar and Kotkaniemi and so on, and more of those guys will have to show up and score than did against Pittsburgh. We won't win more series if our best forwards are Kotkaniemi and Byron and Lehkonen.

2. For the Flyers, it's Hart. If we can rattle him like we usually used to get to MA Fleury, then they don't have much to turn to. He's young and he's inexperienced, and if he's not on his game mentally, the Flyers are going to have little time to figure out whether they ditch Hart and go to Elliot or stick it out with the youngster. The guys in front of Hart will grip their sticks a bit tighter and play to not make mistakes if they lose confidence in Hart's ability to play under pressure behind them. Sure, Carey could play poorly too, but players and coaches have faith that Carey has been there before and won big games, whereas Hart is unproven. If he lets in a soft goal or two early in the series, that could swing things in our favor.

Bottom line for me is that this is going to be much tougher than the Pens and we are certainly underdogs, but I think this series is winnable. We've traditionally done poorly against Philly in the playoffs but we've done well against them in the regular season recently and I think we match up better against them than we would have against Tampa's scorers, Hedman, and their superior goalie. There's more to exploit against Philly. Hopefully we do. Unlike the play-in, there's nothing to lose here by winning.

Agree on all counts.  6 games imho. I think we can win it but its not going to be easy. 

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1 hour ago, kinot-2 said:

I agree with most of what he says but its funny he gives the advantage to the flyers in most categories but then says we'll win in 6. lol

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

I agree with most of what he says but its funny he gives the advantage to the flyers in most categories but then says we'll win in 6. lol

I actually don't agree with Hickey on a few things...

- Forward-wise, you would definitely say the Flyers have the edge on paper but the Habs IMO have more wilcard potential here. If the Habs play Danault as their #1 center like they have all year, then sure, they don't match up to the Flyers all that well. But Danault as your shutdown #3 is maybe the best 3rd-line center in the league, and Suzuki and Kotkaniemi might just be able to outplay Couturier and Hayes. I'm really not very impressed with the Flyers running Hayes-Grant-Thompson down the middle on their lowest 3 lines. I'd take Kotkaniemi-Danault-Domi over that group and even though he's much less proven, Suzuki has the potential to outplay Couturier. On the wing, we don't have anyone who has had as good a year as Voracek or Giroux have had but we certainly have players who have the potential to produce at the same clip as them over a best-of-7 series. The talent is there for players like Gallagher, Drouin, Tatar, and even Domi if he plays wing at some point. So I'd agree Hickey that the Flyers have a slight edge, but the Habs' forwards have the potential to outplay the Flyers' group.

- On D, it's the opposite. The Flyers don't have anyone who matches the pedigree of Weber or even Petry. And like I said, with those two guys rested, their age becomes less of an adverse factor. They certainly have the potential in guys like Provorov and Sanheim to outplay our group, and the bottom end of our defence is weak, but they're also running guys like Braun and Niskanen who are older and overrated. If the Habs have one of Weber or Petry on the ice for 50 minutes a game, then for a short series coming off a 5-month rest I'd actually wonder if we have the edge here. As much as I dislike the Habs' D corps as a whole and as easily as I would trade our entire D for their entire D if I were building a team for the future, I think Weber and Petry can be a strength relative to what Philly has.

So in an ordinary year, if we were going into the playoffs with overplayed core veterans who had been leaned on to heavily by bad coaches who didn't trust youngsters to get ice time, we'd be up the creek. But here, we're going in like we're starting a new season (when we're usually at our best) and we're showing some more trust in youngsters who can turn the tides offensively a bit. And let's keep in mind that outside of that little round robin where the Bruins weren't at full strength and the Lightning finished their game against Philly without Hedman, the Flyers would actually be the #4 seed in the East, just minimally ahead of the Pens. I still believe Philly should be the favorite but not as heavily as some think, and there's not home ice advantage here outside of last line change. So as with the Pens series, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Habs out-perform what the pundits will predict for us.

 

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The best-of-seven NHL playoff series between the Canadiens and the Philadelphia Flyers will begin Wednesday (8 p.m., SN, TVA Sports, TSN-690 Radio).

Game 2 will go Friday with a 3 p.m. start and Game 3 will be Sunday at 7 p.m. Game 4 is scheduled for Tuesday, Aug. 18, at 2 p.m.

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