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Montreal vs Philadelphia Series Thread


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  I think it's time to start giving Xavier Ouellet some love ...last year's captain of Laval Rocket , 6'1" 193 lbs 27 yrs old  ( 2011 - 48th overall Detroit pick ) ...has played all the games so far , leads the Habs in the play-offs in Blocked Shots ( 17 )  , 6th highest SHTOI at 13: 40 ( Mete btw  is at :14 and Kulak at 2:34 ) in the giveaway / takeaway / difference  category he's -2  with about  half the team holding a worse number ...to my mind he's been the forgotten guy but he's playing more quality ice time and better than Mete ...props to Xavier Ouellet on playing well for the Habs 

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2 hours ago, arpem-can said:

  I think it's time to start giving Xavier Ouellet some love ...last year's captain of Laval Rocket , 6'1" 193 lbs 27 yrs old  ( 2011 - 48th overall Detroit pick ) ...has played all the games so far , leads the Habs in the play-offs in Blocked Shots ( 17 )  , 6th highest SHTOI at 13: 40 ( Mete btw  is at :14 and Kulak at 2:34 ) in the giveaway / takeaway / difference  category he's -2  with about  half the team holding a worse number ...to my mind he's been the forgotten guy but he's playing more quality ice time and better than Mete ...props to Xavier Ouellet on playing well for the Habs 

I’m with ya. When we first got’em I thought he looked alright. Certainly didn’t dazzle, but looked... alright. Then, he disappeared. Now that he’s back, I agree, he’s been pretty solid for us. Again, nothing dazzling, but looks to be holding his own. I wasn’t aware of the stats that you have laid out, but that just adds to my being impressed so far. Hopefully he keeps it up!

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4 hours ago, arpem-can said:

  I think it's time to start giving Xavier Ouellet some love ...last year's captain of Laval Rocket , 6'1" 193 lbs 27 yrs old  ( 2011 - 48th overall Detroit pick ) ...has played all the games so far , leads the Habs in the play-offs in Blocked Shots ( 17 )  , 6th highest SHTOI at 13: 40 ( Mete btw  is at :14 and Kulak at 2:34 ) in the giveaway / takeaway / difference  category he's -2  with about  half the team holding a worse number ...to my mind he's been the forgotten guy but he's playing more quality ice time and better than Mete ...props to Xavier Ouellet on playing well for the Habs 

He hasn't been as bad as he might have been and he's by no means my least favorite D man in the organization, but I'm going to disagree with you on his value thus far. A few counter-points:

- Blocked shots have value but the old adage is that the more shots you're blocking, the more shots your team is likely facing when you're on the ice. So it can also be a surrogate marker for not having possession.

- In that regard, Ouellet's possession metrics are not very good. He has a Corsi of 47.3% at 5v5, 2nd worst among D men on the team, ahead of only Chiarot. In terms of expected goals for %, he's worst among D men at 39%, with Chiarot running slightly ahead of him. And in terms of scoring chances for %, he's at 44% and again 2nd-worst among the D men on the team ahead of only Chiarot.

- As far as his work on the PK goes (4v5), he's definitely in the line-up because the coaches want to use him as the 4th D man on the PK. Personally I'd rather see Juulsen there, but I think they want a lefty to go with Petry on the 2nd PK wave. If that's the case, then you have to think about removing Mete from the line-up instead, because I don't love Mete-Ouellet with one of them playing the wrong side of the ice. That said, Ouellet's ice time short-handed isn't really a marker of success, it's just the ice time he's being given by the coach. Personally, I like to use scoring chances against per ice time as a measure of how well the team is doing short-handed with a given player on the ice. In that regard, Ouellet is doing okay. He's not as good as Petry (nor as good as Kulak or Mete statistically, albeit those two have very limited PK time). But he is faring slightly better than Weber and much better than Chiarot, who has statistically been our worst PK player in the playoffs.

 

So my take-aways... not an absolute disaster, but Ouellet isn't faring very well at 5v5 right now, although he is doing alright on the PK. I think there's clearly still room for improvement with that third pairing though. The other take-away from running through the data though is that Chiarot has actually been worse than Ouellet and is far and away the worst D man on the team statistically, albeit with tougher match-ups than Ouellet. I don't see them sitting Chiarot though because people think he's better than he actually is. I'd still see more value in getting another righty in like Juulsen or even Fleury, someone who can out everyone onto their correct side and who can a bit better puck movement on top of some physicality.

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 yeah was just trying to say something nice about Ouellet and point out that he's played decently well considering how he was picked up at no cost to the organization and been a steadying influence in Laval ...I'd never heard of the "old adage " the more shots you're blocking the more shots your team is facing when you're on the ice but I don't think that's the whole story either  ...I would have thought as well it would depend on whether you play a lot of PK time or whether the forwards are playing more time in the d zone as opposed to the o zone or give away the puck more or a certain line being owned by another .... or ......maybe just because your just good at it .....to me blocking shots tells me a player is taking away shooting lanes and is in the right spot .... 

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16 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

So my take-aways... not an absolute disaster, but Ouellet isn't faring very well at 5v5 right now, although he is doing alright on the PK. I think there's clearly still room for improvement with that third pairing though. The other take-away from running through the data though is that Chiarot has actually been worse than Ouellet and is far and away the worst D man on the team statistically, albeit with tougher match-ups than Ouellet. I don't see them sitting Chiarot though because people think he's better than he actually is. I'd still see more value in getting another righty in like Juulsen or even Fleury, someone who can out everyone onto their correct side and who can a bit better puck movement on top of some physicality.

Does make you wonder "what if" Romanov could play.  Probably not the saviour but if he comes in next year & looks totally at ease in the top 4 you have to wonder how much better we'd be with him in the lineup right now.

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what I'm wondering is whether with the emergence of Kulak what happens to Juulsen and Fleury next year assuming Romanov can step in ? ...Mete seems steady enough but not doesn't seem to be improving drastically so I'm all for getting Fleury and Juulsen in the line-up before this play-off runs it's course just to get them ice-time in critical situations to see how they can react to pressure ...Montreal got beat by a seeing eye deflection and they hit 3 crossbars last night and had multiple scoring opportunities ...Hart was the difference ....I feel they still have a good chance in this series 

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3 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

what I'm wondering is whether with the emergence of Kulak what happens to Juulsen and Fleury next year assuming Romanov can step in ? ...Mete seems steady enough but not doesn't seem to be improving drastically so I'm all for getting Fleury and Juulsen in the line-up before this play-off runs it's course just to get them ice-time in critical situations to see how they can react to pressure ...

I think ideally, they want players to play their correct positions.  Juulsen being out for so long probably means they dont want to rush him back. Presumably they have no confidence in Fleury right now either.  So that means we have a LD playing Rd.  I would think that when next season starts, that position goes back to one of Juulsen (most likely) Fleury (less likely) or Brook (very unlikely right now).

We will definitely have a surplus of D.  Not necessary quality, but quantity for sure.   I actually wouldnt be surprised to see one of them traded (ive seen suggestions of packaging Domi + Mete - but presumably you'd get back a higher ranked LD so it doesnt really remove the numbers it just changes the quality of one of the Dmen)

 

4 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

Montreal got beat by a seeing eye deflection and they hit 3 crossbars last night and had multiple scoring opportunities ...Hart was the difference ....I feel they still have a good chance in this series 

For sure they are still in it.  Honestly they could have won all 3 games.  Right now this series could be 3-0 montreal, 2-1 or 1-2.  Game 4 is (obviously) must win, but really we've been the better team for probably 7 of the 9 periods so far.    Just keep playing the same game - although I do think they need to be a bit more aggressive, as they were in game 2.  Hopefully the coaches will get them ready. 

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Worse than the horrific play and loses, this has got to be one of the most boring series' ive ever seen.   At least when you're losing and its exciting its one thing.


We're down 3-1 in a series and we've scored 6 goals to their 5.  11 goals total.  

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Just watched as the Habs put up a second straight big doughnut on the scoreboard and in doing so gave the Flyers a 3-1 stranglehold in this series. You don't score, you don't win. The spectre of the Habs losing this match-up must now be all too evident, to even the most ardent of fans. Sadly, in my opinion, our winning of the series against Pittsburgh lost us extremely valuable draft position which limits the Habs ability to jump-start its fortunes, sooner than later. Long term, I do not believe that this short playoff experience, outweighs the long term ramifications of the loss of a potential high end talent.

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48 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Worse than the horrific play and loses, this has got to be one of the most boring series' ive ever seen.   At least when you're losing and its exciting its one thing.


We're down 3-1 in a series and we've scored 6 goals to their 5.  11 goals total.  

The issue being that in those 3 loses we scored a grand total of 1 goal to their 5

Habs need to move on from the notion the elite goaltending will win you the cup ... it worked 30 years ago, but league parity means it doesn't work as well now.

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

The issue being that in those 3 loses we scored a grand total of 1 goal to their 5

Habs need to move on from the notion the elite goaltending will win you the cup ... it worked 30 years ago, but league parity means it doesn't work as well now.

I agree. Goal-tending is only a part of the solution, because you need to have scoring as well. Many teams are moving to a system where they have a goalie tandem where both can be a good/great option in goal and either one of them can step up to the occasion, Hoping to keep the other teams offence at bay until we manage to somehow get one in does not work. Too much focus on defence for me. Artturi Lehkonen seemed like he was going to be a bit of a sniper when he first played for us, but he has since become more defensive minded. Yes we need to have some defensive structure and buy-in from the players but not to the extent that we forget the offensive side of the game. No one ever wins a hockey game with a doughnut on the scoreboard.

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If someone had of ever told me we would limit Philly to 5 goals and be down 3-1 in the series I would have laughed.  The offense shown by this team has been horrific at best.  Gally and the kids have played well IMO.  But why the hell do we have Armia on the 4th line while Drouin is bouncing between the third and second??  At least Armia is throwing some hits and driving the net.  Drouin is like a empty water bottle floating around, nothing about his game has stood out to even build upon.

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15 hours ago, maas_art said:

Worse than the horrific play and loses, this has got to be one of the most boring series' ive ever seen.   At least when you're losing and its exciting its one thing.


We're down 3-1 in a series and we've scored 6 goals to their 5.  11 goals total.  

Yep yep. Most of this series has been an absolute snore fest. Philadelphia is up 3-1 and doesn't even seem to be breaking a sweat out there. Neither team seems compelled to play with playoff intensity.

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2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Yep yep. Most of this series has been an absolute snore fest. Philadelphia is up 3-1 and doesn't even seem to be breaking a sweat out there. Neither team seems compelled to play with playoff intensity.

And thats the thing. I know that "intensity" is difficult to measure from the eye test - some guys fly all around, others move effortlessly etc - but we know these players & we know their styles & habits well.   Yesterday it looked like literally 1/3 of our roster wanted to be there & were playing for their lives while the other 2/3 (or at least 1/2) seemed to be wondering what was for dinner. 

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1 minute ago, arpem-can said:

I hope the Habs players are watching the 2nd period in the Columbus Tampa game ...Columbus overwhelmed Tampa with intensity in facing elimination ..it's not over yet but they aren't giving up 

 

I think they will come out swinging (although I thought they were going to yesterday too) but if Philly gets a quick goal its not going to be pretty.

 

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I think they will come out swinging (although I thought they were going to yesterday too) but if Philly gets a quick goal its not going to be pretty.

Hart and Philly seem brilliant when they get the lead. We must, must, must not give-up that first goal tonight.

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