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Jake Allen


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5 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

What if... Acquiring Allen is a precursor to a bigger move? Say, trading Price..? Add Allen, trade Price and toss $5 at Crawford..? Allen/Crawford for a year, then Crawford/Primeau for the years following until Primeau is ready to take the helm on his own?

just having a little fun with it, but who knows, right?

I really dont think we would move price but it certainly does open the possibility. I don't wanna move price unless we get REAL value for him. A goalie, a roster player, an A prospect, a first-round pick. I don't think MB would move him unless he got at LEAST that. And while price still is a great goalie, its a hard sell to get all that for a 10.5 million dollar cap hit. I've always thought Colorado would be a good place for them, they get Price, they WILL win the cup imo

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3 minutes ago, habsisme said:

no, it is the case for players, but from what I can gather you just need a goalie under contract or an RFA goalie. They don't need experience

I was going by what Big Ted said earlier about him having to have NHL experience. Now i'm not sure which is the case.

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11 minutes ago, RCAF48 said:

Correct. 

No need to put the screws to St Louis, MB might want to deal with them again.

I also think that Jake Allen, with only a 1 year risk is probably worth more than a 3rd rounder if St Louis wasnt in cap trouble.  So yes, we had to give up a (fairly low) asset but you could argue the price was already discounted a little. 

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35 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I really dont think we would move price but it certainly does open the possibility. I don't wanna move price unless we get REAL value for him. A goalie, a roster player, an A prospect, a first-round pick. I don't think MB would move him unless he got at LEAST that. And while price still is a great goalie, its a hard sell to get all that for a 10.5 million dollar cap hit. I've always thought Colorado would be a good place for them, they get Price, they WILL win the cup imo

Yeah, I don’t think so either, nor am I necessarily advocating for it, but like you said, it does open the door...

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2 hours ago, claremont said:

Check out the posting of August 26/20 under State of the Habs subject!

Hmmm, this guy called it correctly and seemed to know what he was talking about - just could not pry a further prospect out of St. Louis in the deal.

 yeah good call on acquiring Allen for sure although but there was no  St Louis #1 pick coming along or a throw away  F going the other way ...the #3  and # 7s are almost an afterthought but I never thought Montreal would pay so much for 2 goalies which  makes me wonder what else is in the air ?...only Domi and Mete unsigned and almost $15 mill in cap room ..could be a bit of a blockbuster on the horizon ...never know 

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I really like this deal for both teams. 

I'm pretty sure this is what it looks like: Allen providing quality backup services, so Price can be more rested and overall we likely have the best goaltending in the league.

BUT, for fun: some big package from MTL to NYR for Lafreniere has to be discussed, perhaps:

Price, Domi/Danault/Armia, Mete/Kulak/Petry, MTL's 2020 1st rounder to NYR and some other picks and prospects to NYR for Lafreniere

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43 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

 yeah good call on acquiring Allen for sure although but there was no  St Louis #1 pick coming along or a throw away  F going the other way ...the #3  and # 7s are almost an afterthought but I never thought Montreal would pay so much for 2 goalies which  makes me wonder what else is in the air ?...only Domi and Mete unsigned and almost $15 mill in cap room ..could be a bit of a blockbuster on the horizon ...never know 

There’s very few teams that have the cap room to take on a backup goalie with the contract value of Allen. Paying 4 forwards $40.5M vs two goalies $14.85M is a little more crazy 🤪

I thought we might get a little more than the 7th rounder the blues threw in but the blues draft history and prospect pool is pretty dry. Perhaps this was a favour to the Blues and something else is coming, (trade for Dunn?) . Blues have an Alzner contract too - handcuffed by a NTC Alex Steen (37 in March)  contract for 1 more year at 5.35M so one would think they buy that out to save $1.9M in cap room 

 

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23 minutes ago, Windoe said:

BUT, for fun: some big package from MTL to NYR for Lafreniere has to be discussed, perhaps:

Price, Domi/Danault/Armia, Mete/Kulak/Petry, MTL's 2020 1st rounder to NYR and some other picks and prospects to NYR for Lafreniere

Im 99% positive MB wont trade Price. I think his 'untouchables' are Price, Weber, Suzuki and JK - BUT - if for some reason he did, im equally sure he wont trade him within our conference.

That said, this is the type of deal (3-4 players with at least 2 of them being impact) it would probably take to get a Laf.

 

15 minutes ago, claremont said:

There’s very few teams that have the cap room to take on a backup goalie with the contract value of Allen. Paying 4 forwards $40.5M vs two goalies $14.85M is a little more crazy 🤪

I thought we might get a little more than the 7th rounder the blues threw in but the blues draft history and prospect pool is pretty dry. Perhaps this was a favour to the Blues and something else is coming, (trade for Dunn?) . Blues have an Alzner contract too - handcuffed by a NTC Alex Steen (37 in March)  contract for 1 more year at 5.35M so one would think they buy that out to save $1.9M in cap room 

I wonder (re the bolded part) if its is something like "take Allen & if we can then sign Pietrangelo, we'll deal you_____" for example Dunn.  I know that Dunn is LHD but if they lost Dunn and Pietrangelo it would be very very bad. If they can keep #27 then possibly they can let someone else go...

wishful thinking im sure.. :P 

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36 minutes ago, claremont said:

There’s very few teams that have the cap room to take on a backup goalie with the contract value of Allen. Paying 4 forwards $40.5M vs two goalies $14.85M is a little more crazy 🤪

I thought we might get a little more than the 7th rounder the blues threw in but the blues draft history and prospect pool is pretty dry. Perhaps this was a favour to the Blues and something else is coming, (trade for Dunn?) . Blues have an Alzner contract too - handcuffed by a NTC Alex Steen (37 in March)  contract for 1 more year at 5.35M so one would think they buy that out to save $1.9M in cap room 

 

   The more I mull over this acquisition the more I think it's a very good move . Firstly , it's only for 1 year and Allen can always be moved at deadline for at least the 3rd the Habs gave up.  Second if Primeau gets plenty  work in Laval and has progressed enough he could be the option and brought up to the big club and not have to be protected in the ED  and Third Allen possesses better than average puck-handling skills which would fit nicely into Montreal's transition game . If the NHL allows a buy-out then Alzner's would only add to the cap room Montreal already has . Certainly Allen provides more of an upside than Kinkaid simply by giving the Habs more quality starts to keep Price fresh .

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I also think that Jake Allen, with only a 1 year risk is probably worth more than a 3rd rounder if St Louis wasnt in cap trouble.  So yes, we had to give up a (fairly low) asset but you could argue the price was already discounted a little. 

Again, I don't think a 3rd round pick has a ton of value (about a 10-15% chance of ever becoming an NHL player). But not sure Allen would be worth more than a 3rd even in the best of times. He's clearly not their starter and he's sitting on a heavy contract for a back-up. There aren't too many goalie trades involving similar players, and most goalies who are traded are dealt for other goalies. One that I can recall though would be Ben Bishop being traded from LA to Dallas, and that fetched a 4th round choice. So I don't know but I'd say a 3rd round choice would probably have been about the going rate if he was a goalie suitable for playing a tandem role 1-1A situation. You could argue it's a good price to pay for your starter, but again, Allen is clearly going to be the back-up here and wasn't going to be an outright starter in St. Louis even if he stayed. So the fact he's overpaid for the job he's going to get IMO should have dropped the price and the fact a UFA is risky business for the upcoming season should have factored in to.

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54 minutes ago, Windoe said:

I really like this deal for both teams. 

I'm pretty sure this is what it looks like: Allen providing quality backup services, so Price can be more rested and overall we likely have the best goaltending in the league.

BUT, for fun: some big package from MTL to NYR for Lafreniere has to be discussed, perhaps:

Price, Domi/Danault/Armia, Mete/Kulak/Petry, MTL's 2020 1st rounder to NYR and some other picks and prospects to NYR for Lafreniere

I highly doubt the Rangers would have any interest in Price whatsoever. As far as I can tell they’re set in net. If we were to trade Price (gigantic if!) I think your probably looking at Colorado. Especially considering the situation they currently find themselves in. They’ve got the cap space and the assets to make that trade. 

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1 minute ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I highly doubt the Rangers would have any interest in Price whatsoever. As far as I can tell they’re set in net. If we were to trade Price (gigantic if!) I think your probably looking at Colorado. Especially considering the situation they currently find themselves in. They’ve got the cap space and the assets to make that trade. 

Agreed and I also think people are too high on Laf, he's not a generational player and could easily disappoint 

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2 hours ago, habsisme said:

I really dont think we would move price but it certainly does open the possibility. I don't wanna move price unless we get REAL value for him. A goalie, a roster player, an A prospect, a first-round pick. I don't think MB would move him unless he got at LEAST that. And while price still is a great goalie, its a hard sell to get all that for a 10.5 million dollar cap hit. I've always thought Colorado would be a good place for them, they get Price, they WILL win the cup imo

If Colorado goes out this round against Dallas, I certainly think Sakic could be swayed to go after a better starter. We know the Habs and Avs had big talks at the end of last year, and we know Sakic knows first-hand how Patrick Roy put his team over the top when they had the horses up front. If you argue that McKinnon-Rantanen are the new Sakic-Forsberg, then Price could easily be the missing cog in that team's chances of being the #1 Cup contender.

You could extend Allen any time once the new season starts, since he's an impending UFA I believe, so if you can get a deal done, I'd be perfectly okay with running Allen-Primeau as a tandem, or else Allen with a goalie we get from Colorado to even out the money on a deal (Grubauer or Fancouz). My ask for Price would be high. It would start with Bowen Byram, one of their top forward prospects (Newhook, Bowers, Kaut, or Kamenev), and their 2021 1st rounder (which for them may be less of a hit since it will likely be a late 1st). If they refuse Byram, then it would have to be Timmins and Newhook as the two prospects. So either Byram, Kaut, and a 1st or Timmins, Newhook, and a 1st, for example. Would losing Price hurt short-term? Yes. But Allen kind of bridges that gap to potentially Primeau, and Byram to go along with Suzuki and JK makes an interesting nucleus.

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7 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

   The more I mull over this acquisition the more I think it's a very good move . Firstly , it's only for 1 year and Allen can always be moved at deadline for at least the 3rd the Habs gave up.  Second if Primeau gets plenty  work in Laval and has progressed enough he could be the option and brought up to the big club and not have to be protected in the ED  and Third Allen possesses better than average puck-handling skills which would fit nicely into Montreal's transition game . If the NHL allows a buy-out then Alzner's would only add to the cap room Montreal already has . Certainly Allen provides more of an upside than Kinkaid simply by giving the Habs more quality starts to keep Price fresh .

Failed with Montaya, Niemi, Kinkaid - you get what you pay for - good point on potential value at the trade line and using Primeau 

7 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I wonder if we could get their first for Steen, that would also make a good trade and could allow them to keet Dunn and Pietrangelo 

That’s a very expensive use of the cap to buy a first round draft choice at pick 24 or whatever the blues pick at - steen would be bought out by us as he doesn’t have much value as a player.  If you go by the Winnipeg Steve Mason precedent they threw in a former first rounder in Armia and we gave up a low level low risk prospect of Simon Bourque. 
It might not be out of the question. 
I just hope we can secure a top LHD and another scorer thru trade (Domi, or others) and use of the other Cap room before this choice is made 

 

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Overall i like this deal on ice at least, i think it solves the back up problem. now we need to get some scoring on the wings and in a perfect world a stud LHD. after the playoffs we just had i think our biggest issue was goal scoring we don't have enough scoring punch and i am not sure if that is a bigger issue than the D at the moment. we don't know how Romanov is going to do and i am sure we are going to start the year with Chiarot Kulak and Romanov down the left side Webber Petry and one of our young Dmen down the right. at center we are set then when you look at the wings it gets a bit sketchy, Gally should be on the second line as should Tatar Drouin has first line talent but you never know which one will show up! Caufield is a shooter but he is a kid we don't know what he will do until we see it. Armia is a tank but an offensive dud most nights Leks is about the same Byron can score and is fast as the wind but he has been hurt a lot lately. other than that we don't really have anyone i think of as a scoring threat! now i say all this thinking Domi is not going to be here because i don't see him as a fourth line center and CJ sees him as a center and there is no way he takes the place of Suzuki KK or Dano, so.....methinks he will be hitting the road. i am pretty sure there will be a trade including Domi perhaps a pick and one of our prospects for someone, it should be an interesting off season.

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7 hours ago, habsisme said:

but that cap space is just for this year. We have to re-sign Gallagher, Tatar, Danault, Armia, Petry, Kotkaniemi. I don't think we will even be able to keep everyone. We only have cap space for one year deals

No ... go look at CapFriendly ... we just finished the 2019/2020 season ... and will enter the 20/21 season.     So for this COMING season we had 14.35 m in cap space with Domi, Mete and Oulette to sign (with some UFAs, Weise, Folin, Kinkaid)

For the 2021/2022 season which would have started in October of 2021 a year from now ... we are projected to have 43m or so in Cap Space with

UFAs

Gallagher

Tatar

Danault

Armia

Weal 

Petry

Allen (now UFA)

Lindgren

 

RFA

Lehkonen

 

Some of those guys above won't be with Montreal that summer anymore (:UFA and Expansion Draft)

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9 hours ago, maas_art said:

interesting thoughts by Jamie McLennan on TSN - he suggested that MB may have traded for Allen to then flip him for another asset or as part of a bigger deal down the this off season.  Not sure i buy it but will be interesting to watch. 

I almost never expect a deal to be a precursor to a larger deal. I feel like that never happens. Mostly just something that gets talked about by the media or on message boards. The Allen deal seems very simple to me. We need a better backup goaltender, Bergevin liked Allen, and he acquired him in a trade. No more, no less. He'll cost us $4+ million for one season while we watch the development of Primeau.

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31 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I almost never expect a deal to be a precursor to a larger deal. I feel like that never happens. Mostly just something that gets talked about by the media or on message boards. The Allen deal seems very simple to me. We need a better backup goaltender, Bergevin liked Allen, and he acquired him in a trade. No more, no less. He'll cost us $4+ million for one season while we watch the development of Primeau.

I agree. I do think its interesting to speculate but Id be pretty surprised if this happened.  I guess they (the media) need something to talk about :P

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