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7 hours ago, habsisme said:

I think you have to play the best players possible to win. You can't start thinking about a players value in a trade when your making lineup decisions

Exactly.

The lineup decisions and in-game adjustments are almost entirely made in efforts to win the game at hand.  

 

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8 hours ago, habsisme said:

yeah but you look at all the trades he's made and they were all successful. As for Tatar, we need goal scoring and he adds that. If we're having a competitive season I'd rather keep him and then lose him for nothing if we can't get a favourable deal done. I think MBs plan is to wait and see how the season turns out and if it's bad he will trade the expiring contracts, and the goes for Danault and Gallagher as well (unless they are ready to sign a team-friendly deal) 

I'm good with this plan

His trades are largely successful, and I agree, that is the ultimate judgement.  

As for value he gets on his assets, likely that's market value at the time.  "We could have got more for XYZ" - no you couldn't have.  "We should have gotten more for XYZ" - then the deal wouldn't be done, and you'd still have XYZ on your team.  "But a better GM can get those deals, look at the GM for ABC" - true, but that GM doesn't work for us or may not even exist.  As it stands, our current GM ultimately wins more trades than he loses.

I also think that is the plan for Tatar, Danault and Gallagher (sign team-friendly deals, otherwise wait and see how next season pans out), and I also am good with that plan.

I'm excited to see another line, perhaps Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson/Armia, really push our top line...we may finally have two decent lines next season.  Maybe even UFA-Kotkaniemi-Anderson/Armia.

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1 hour ago, Windoe said:I'm excited to see another line, perhaps Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson/Armia, really push our top line...we may finally have two decent lines next season.  Maybe even UFA-Kotkaniemi-Anderson/Armia.

Duclair could be a great fit but on reflection, his scoring may not be enough and his resume suggests he has a character issue - Rangers to Coyotes to Chicago to Columbus to Ottawa to ? A lot of teams for a 25 year old 

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14 minutes ago, claremont said:

Duclair could be a great fit but on reflection, his scoring may not be enough and his resume suggests he has a character issue - Rangers to Coyotes to Chicago to Columbus to Ottawa to ? A lot of teams for a 25 year old 

Yeah, so many teams in such a short time is definitely a red flag, which should drive down the player's value, so if you can get him for the right price, it could be a solid pickup.  If he's ready to play at home, we could get him at a good price, but no need to overpay.

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5 hours ago, H_T_L said:

I doubt MB would have done that deal. His ask might have had a lot to do with trading him.

I assumed that too when i heard about the trade.  I would imagine they talked $$ and a deal like this probably wouldnt have worked for MB for a couple of reasons. 

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23 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

7 years, 5.5M AAV

Dont love this.

Was expecting he would want more on a longer deal but then you sign him to a show me contract.  This ties him for our highest paid forward.   

If he comes out & puts up 40 goals, great, but what if he puts up 20?  What does Gallagher ask for (and get) then?  What about JK and Suzuki when they are due?  Tatar and Danault will need new contracts soon...  

Really not a great contract.  MB better hope his hunch about JA is correct. 

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23 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

7 years, 5.5M AAV

Very surprised they went that long and high - they have to be very sure that his shoulder injury is fully behind him. Paying him Drouin money so he better perform but that gives KK or Suzuki one solid winger. 
I kind of think Tatar has to have one heck of a season to be considered for a contract next year 

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11 minutes ago, claremont said:

Very surprised they went that long and high - they have to be very sure that his shoulder injury is fully behind him. Paying him Drouin money so he better perform but that gives KK or Suzuki one solid winger. 
I kind of think Tatar has to have one heck of a season to be considered for a contract next year 

 this surprised the hell out of me too ...especially considering last year and the flat cap ...I had him tagged for at the most $ 4 mill for 4 maybe 5 years ...puts a screw into getting someone else of value unless bodies are moved and Gallagher's price just went up...he'll be 33 when the contract expires ...get creative Bergevin ....

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31 minutes ago, habsisme said:

whoa! I was not expecting that! This trade and signing just got a hell of a lot more risky

 

22 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Dont love this.

Was expecting he would want more on a longer deal but then you sign him to a show me contract.  This ties him for our highest paid forward.   

If he comes out & puts up 40 goals, great, but what if he puts up 20?  What does Gallagher ask for (and get) then?  What about JK and Suzuki when they are due?  Tatar and Danault will need new contracts soon...  

Really not a great contract.  MB better hope his hunch about JA is correct. 

 

19 minutes ago, claremont said:

Very surprised they went that long and high - they have to be very sure that his shoulder injury is fully behind him. Paying him Drouin money so he better perform but that gives KK or Suzuki one solid winger. 
I kind of think Tatar has to have one heck of a season to be considered for a contract next year 

I think it's hard to compare contracts to existing forwards though. How many guys do we have where we've bought up 6 UFA years? How many guys do we have who have signed with the current salary cap ceiling? Look at our other key forwards:

- Suzuki on ELC

- Kotkaniemi on ELC

- Danault on a bridge type deal, due for his 1st UFA contract next year

- Tatar acquired from another team already signed.

- Gallagher signed to a bargain long-term deal before he was fully established (which is the type of contract you need to go after as a GM) and due for his first UFA contract soon

- Armia on a short-term deal as an RFA

- Lehkonen on a short-term deal as an RFA

 

Other than Drouin, there isn't a player that we acquired and signed for a bunch of UFA years. So the fact he's tied for highest-paid player doesn't mean all that much. If all our players were due for new contract tomorrow, chances are high we'd owe more money to Gallagher, Suzuki, and probably Danault and Tatar. So the comparisons don't mean a lot.

That said, the question of whether Anderson is worth it is valid. Here's my thought: if the deal was 5.5 AAV for 5 years, we'd probably be calling it a good deal. For a guy to be paid that amount to be a top 6 winger from age 26-32, it's really not a terrible contract. With Anderson's style of play and injury history, I think there's some legitimate concern about his durability into his 30's but if we can get 5 good years out of Anderson whereby he puts up 20-30 goals a year, the last two years don't bother me as much. This isn't the same worry to me as signing a 30 year old to a 7 year deal and expecting 2-3 good years and 4-5 garbage ones. I think Anderson's young enough that we can expect most of the contract to be fruitful, so for that reason, I'm not so down on this contract. If Anderson stays healthy, he's getting paid like a top 6 winger and that's what the Habs expect him to be. There's some amount of a gamble here but I think he'll get opportunity and succeed. Also important to remember that given we gave up quite a bit to get him, Anderson had to know we weren't going to let him take a one-year qualifying offer and walk as a UFA next year, so he had some bargaining power there.

 

 

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Interesting it is the term i thought it might be as he said he wanted long term but the $ is higher than i would have liked. that said once Gally gets signed there is still a chance others get moved and perhaps we may make a pick up too. one thing is for sure we made a strong commitment to this player now it is up to him to play for it. another thing is the coach knows this guy is here to stay so deal with him accordingly.

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46 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think it's hard to compare contracts to existing forwards though. How many guys do we have where we've bought up 6 UFA years? How many guys do we have who have signed with the current salary cap ceiling? Look at our other key forwards:

- Suzuki on ELC

- Kotkaniemi on ELC

- Danault on a bridge type deal, due for his 1st UFA contract next year

- Tatar acquired from another team already signed.

- Gallagher signed to a bargain long-term deal before he was fully established (which is the type of contract you need to go after as a GM) and due for his first UFA contract soon

- Armia on a short-term deal as an RFA

- Lehkonen on a short-term deal as an RFA

Other than Drouin, there isn't a player that we acquired and signed for a bunch of UFA years. 

That said, the question of whether Anderson is worth it is valid. Here's my thought: if the deal was 5.5 AAV for 5 years, we'd probably be calling it a good deal. For a guy to be paid that amount to be a top 6 winger from age 26-32, it's really not a terrible contract. With Anderson's style of play and injury history, I think there's some legitimate concern about his durability into his 30's but if we can get 5 good years out of Anderson whereby he puts up 20-30 goals a year, the last two years don't bother me as much. This isn't the same worry to me as signing a 30 year old to a 7 year deal and expecting 2-3 good years and 4-5 garbage ones. I think Anderson's young enough that we can expect most of the contract to be fruitful, so for that reason, I'm not so down on this contract. If Anderson stays healthy, he's getting paid like a top 6 winger and that's what the Habs expect him to be. There's some amount of a gamble here but I think he'll get opportunity and succeed. Anderson had to know we weren't going to let him take a one-year qualifying offer and walk as a UFA next year, so he had some bargaining power there.

Valid perspectives - tons of other teams with long term handcuff contracts for older players Philly islanders, Coyotes, Tampa (ok cup), Nashville, Vegas, Washington. We now have three - Anderson Weber and Price, so it’s not overly horrible by team comparisons.  Although Weber’s was so cash front loaded it may be tradeable in 2 years. I hope Josh can stay injury free. 

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I'm glad its done before tomorrow so we more clearly know what we can and cannot do with the UFAs.

Also, it makes the trade more clear:
Domi 5.3m 5.3m UFA & 3rd round pick for
Anderson 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m UFA

I think this trade is a win for both teams, but mainly because MTL had no use for Domi, and he is worth $5m+.

If we signed Anderson for 2 years, and CBJ signed Domi for 7 years, I would feel like we lost the trade.

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27 minutes ago, Windoe said:

I'm glad its done before tomorrow so we more clearly know what we can and cannot do with the UFAs.

Also, it makes the trade more clear:
Domi 5.3m 5.3m UFA & 3rd round pick for
Anderson 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m 5.5m UFA

I think this trade is a win for both teams, but mainly because MTL had no use for Domi, and he is worth $5m+.

If we signed Anderson for 2 years, and CBJ signed Domi for 7 years, I would feel like we lost the trade.

Montreal might not have had a fit for Domi but Columbus needed a 2nd line center badly. So did Minnesota. So did a few other teams. So even if you don't need the player, he's a recent 70+ point player who can be a 2C. There should have been a bigger market for that if the Habs hadn't crashed Domi's value.

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4 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Montreal might not have had a fit for Domi but Columbus needed a 2nd line center badly. So did Minnesota. So did a few other teams. So even if you don't need the player, he's a recent 70+ point player who can be a 2C. There should have been a bigger market for that if the Habs hadn't crashed Domi's value.

I agree with most of this but Domi had a hand in crashing his value too.

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18 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Montreal might not have had a fit for Domi but Columbus needed a 2nd line center badly. So did Minnesota. So did a few other teams. So even if you don't need the player, he's a recent 70+ point player who can be a 2C. There should have been a bigger market for that if the Habs hadn't crashed Domi's value.

Yes, I'm sure other teams wanted Domi, but MB really wanted Anderson (and has for awhile).  So though he may have gotten more value overall with another team, he may not have gotten what he wanted.

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The big Anderson contract suggests to me that Anderson is likely to play with Drouin & Suzuki.

So Kotkaniemi & Armia will likely be together, and getting a left winger from the UFA market (Hall/Hoffman/Toffoli/Kovalchuk/Duclair/Simmonds/other).

Plus, I'm liking that Gauthier idea from Poulin the more I think about it as he's huge, local, a first round pick, 25yo, and should be cheap.

 

 

Edited by Windoe
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