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I like Toffoli as a player. I'm not sure what this means in terms of a signing though. So far as I can tell, these are the possibilities for how it plays out at RW:

1. Habs re-sign Gallagher and Armia and go into 2021 with Gallagher-Anderson-Toffoli-Armia down the right side, as they do this year too. It means they don't open up room for Caufield or Ylonen in 2021. If they sign Gallagher and Armia to multi-year deals then how long do you wait before giving one of best prospects a shot?

2. Habs re-sign Gallagher but not Armia... as above, it means the only real opening at RW is on the 4th line. Not really a great option on which to play skilled scoring wingers like Caufield or Ylonen.

3. Habs re-sign Armia but not Gallagher... a little dicey going into 2021 with no real top-line RW then. Anderson is ideally a 2nd liner. Toffoli is ideally 2nd or 3rd. Neither one screams top line goal scorer, so it means you'd better hope Caufield is ready. Seems like a gamble when you're sitting on aging Weber/Price/Petry as your core but then need to wait for prospects to develop.

At the same time, devoting 4.25M to Toffoli this year means you only need to get rid of a Byron or Kulak or Chiarot or so on. But it means the likelihood of retaining Gallagher, Tatar, and/or Danault go down. If you retain Toffoli, but trade Tatar are you better off? If you retain Toffoli at a lower price but lose Gallagher, are you better off?

At this point, the signing feels a lot like the Drouin trade. It requires another move to know the impact of it. If the move is to trade Tatar for a 2nd round pick, I think this signing is a loss. If the move is to let Tatar or Gallagher walk for nothing, it's a loss. If the move is to trade one of those two for a top-pairing LHD, it's a major win. The problem with the signing in isolation is that Toffoli isn't an upgrade on our top 6 as is, and if we lose a member of our top 6 as a result of devoting money and term to Toffoli, it just doesn't make sense. So to me, this signing is only a win if it allows you to trade an asset for something you need more than a right winger and then use Toffoli as a replacement.

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2 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I like Toffoli as a player. I'm not sure what this means in terms of a signing though. So far as I can tell, these are the possibilities for how it plays out at RW:

1. Habs re-sign Gallagher and Armia and go into 2021 with Gallagher-Anderson-Toffoli-Armia down the right side, as they do this year too. It means they don't open up room for Caufield or Ylonen in 2021. If they sign Gallagher and Armia to multi-year deals then how long do you wait before giving one of best prospects a shot?

2. Habs re-sign Gallagher but not Armia... as above, it means the only real opening at RW is on the 4th line. Not really a great option on which to play skilled scoring wingers like Caufield or Ylonen.

3. Habs re-sign Armia but not Gallagher... a little dicey going into 2021 with no real top-line RW then. Anderson is ideally a 2nd liner. Toffoli is ideally 2nd or 3rd. Neither one screams top line goal scorer, so it means you'd better hope Caufield is ready. Seems like a gamble when you're sitting on aging Weber/Price/Petry as your core but then need to wait for prospects to develop.

At the same time, devoting 4.25M to Toffoli this year means you only need to get rid of a Byron or Kulak or Chiarot or so on. But it means the likelihood of retaining Gallagher, Tatar, and/or Danault go down. If you retain Toffoli, but trade Tatar are you better off? If you retain Toffoli at a lower price but lose Gallagher, are you better off?

At this point, the signing feels a lot like the Drouin trade. It requires another move to know the impact of it. If the move is to trade Tatar for a 2nd round pick, I think this signing is a loss. If the move is to let Tatar or Gallagher walk for nothing, it's a loss. If the move is to trade one of those two for a top-pairing LHD, it's a major win. The problem with the signing in isolation is that Toffoli isn't an upgrade on our top 6 as is, and if we lose a member of our top 6 as a result of devoting money and term to Toffoli, it just doesn't make sense. So to me, this signing is only a win if it allows you to trade an asset for something you need more than a right winger and then use Toffoli as a replacement.

I agree its not an upgrade to our top 6...but it is an upgrade to our top 9 (which is only an upgrade, as you say, if we don't lose someone in our top 6).

This should give us 3 solid lines and overall top 9 depth:
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson
Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Then a bunch of options in the 4th line, hopefully this is where we become cap compliant.

We'll have to see what moves he makes to get us compliant.

I live with and know lots of Canucks fans, they are all saying Toffoli is a great pickup for us.  

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5 minutes ago, olddude said:

Yeah I was looking at that too. So potential lineup could be

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Taffoli-Kotkaniemi-Armia

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher 

Byron-Evans-Lehkonen

Kulak and Weal traded or burried in AHL makes us cap compliant.

Chiarot-Weber

Edmondson-Petry

Romanov-Mete

Juulsen 

 

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4 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Yeah I was looking at that too. So potential lineup could be

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Taffoli-Kotkaniemi-Armia

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher 

Byron-Evans-Lehkonen

Kulak and Weal traded or burried in AHL makes us cap compliant.

Chiarot-Weber

Edmondson-Petry

Romanov-Mete

Juulsen 

 

That wouldn't be a terrible lineup and I like the idea of Taffoli on the left with a right hand shot.

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3 minutes ago, olddude said:

That wouldn't be a terrible lineup and I like the idea of Taffoli on the left with a right hand shot.

We now only have 1 hole in the lineup. #1 LHD but with the addition of Edmondson and Romanov the hole is not a glaring weakness anymore.

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I like the signing, it gives us plenty of options in the top 9 and allows for proper development of Ylonen and Caufield in the AHL. Definitely the best lineup we've had in years IMO. I'm still not bullish on our LDs but they should get the job done defensively and I'm looking forward to see how Romanov is going to adapt.

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4 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

once we know who is leaving we will see what tis is going to bring us but so far i am happy!

Agreed, I was pissed this morning we missed out on Hall but the Taffoli signing has eased that significantly LOL. I think this basically gives us 3 2nd lines and a 3rd line. 

Edited by campabee82
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1 hour ago, Windoe said:

This should give us 3 solid lines and overall top 9 depth:
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson
Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Then a bunch of options in the 4th line, hopefully this is where we become cap compliant.

We'll have to see what moves he makes to get us compliant.

I live with and know lots of Canucks fans, they are all saying Toffoli is a great pickup for us.  

Toffoli is an infinite upgrade over Weal, and will put more goals in the opposing net then Lehkonen and plays tougher. I believe he’s better than Armia too and thankfully the Hudon era is also over. So he’s 2 years older than Max Domi and has a much better ceiling than Max did. I don’t see how anyone can suggest he’s not an overall improvement. 
Just dropping Ouellette from our roster and going with 21 players also makes us compliant on cap but not worrying about that as I’m certain they have a plan. 

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49 minutes ago, campabee82 said:
50 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Agreed, I was pissed this morning we missed out on Hall but the Taffoli signing has eased that significantly LOL. I think this basically gives us 3 2nd lines and a 3rd line. 

  I don't think Bergevin is finished tinkering with this line up quite yet ...there is still the trade route 

 

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1 minute ago, claremont said:

I guess we’re not signing Ilya Kovalchuk unless someone else us moved. 

  I've been wondering for a while now on where Kovalchuk would fit in this line-up even before Toffoli ....Toffoli has a  "good shot , quick release and has above average speed " 

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36 minutes ago, habsisme said:

yeah no Kovalchuk 

I do hope Toffoli plays the left side though, cause while I know he's no superstar, I quite like Armia and wouldn't like him on the 4th line

Toffoli - 6 ft 197, Anderson 6 ft 3 222, Edmundson 6 ft 4 225, Romanov 5 ft 11 182 - this team is not going to get pushed around as much. I don’t think Armia goes to the 4th line. 
hope Ryan Poehling at 6 ft 2, 204 can make the jump 

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Agreed, I was pissed this morning we missed out on Hall but the Taffoli signing has eased that significantly LOL. I think this basically gives us 3 2nd lines and a 3rd line. 

For sure. And the nice thing is we have guys (Suzuki, maybe JK) who could potentially be 1st line players in the near future. Gallagher isnt far off that by most metrics.  

2 hours ago, Windoe said:

Is Toffoli RW?or can he also play LW?

I see he's listed as RW, LW at CapFriendly, but everywhere else seems to be RW.

Has played a lot at both positions. Not sure if he prefers one but he seems pretty adapt at both. In LA he spent a decent amount of time at LW despite shooting Right. 

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

At this point, the signing feels a lot like the Drouin trade. It requires another move to know the impact of it. If the move is to trade Tatar for a 2nd round pick, I think this signing is a loss. If the move is to let Tatar or Gallagher walk for nothing, it's a loss. If the move is to trade one of those two for a top-pairing LHD, it's a major win. The problem with the signing in isolation is that Toffoli isn't an upgrade on our top 6 as is, and if we lose a member of our top 6 as a result of devoting money and term to Toffoli, it just doesn't make sense. So to me, this signing is only a win if it allows you to trade an asset for something you need more than a right winger and then use Toffoli as a replacement.

The follow up move (And we have to make one as our cap is now too high) will be the key, i agree. 

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6 minutes ago, claremont said:

Toffoli - 6 ft 197, Anderson 6 ft 3 222, Edmundson 6 ft 4 225, Romanov 5 ft 11 182 - this team is not going to get pushed around as much. I don’t think Armia goes to the 4th line. 
hope Ryan Poehling at 6 ft 2, 204 can make the jump 

I actually like what has been done. I really liked Domi. That said we definitely got bigger . Also the forwards we added are both + players that can score and are good defensively.

I think Edmondson is going to be better than most think and I believe Romanov will be good. We have a good mixture of talent and should be able to roll some good line s with depth. I know we have a solid backup for Carey now. It'll most likely be a jammed schedule having a lot of back to backs and having a solid backup will help. I know others became available but most of those want to be a starter not a back up.  

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

If the move is to let Tatar or Gallagher walk

I don't know why Bergevin would let them walk as they're still under contract and the Habs have enough cap room to extend if he wants . If anyone goes something will be coming back even if it means at trade deadline ...at this point it's looking like 4 respectable lines that got bigger going forward 

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53 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I actually like what has been done. I really liked Domi. That said we definitely got bigger . Also the forwards we added are both + players that can score and are good defensively.

I think Edmondson is going to be better than most think and I believe Romanov will be good. We have a good mixture of talent and should be able to roll some good line s with depth. I know we have a solid backup for Carey now. It'll most likely be a jammed schedule having a lot of back to backs and having a solid backup will help. I know others became available but most of those want to be a starter not a back up.  

While I still have constructive criticisms of MB, I entirely agree with your positivity. This team offers some additional hope and entertainment - finally a bit of progress and steps in the right direction

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

 

The follow up move (And we have to make one as our cap is now too high) will be the key, i agree. 

Maybe it's the death blow for Weal. Waiving him would get us back under. Saves a bit if he gets sent down to Laval and a bit more if he actually gets picked up.

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I like Toffoli as a player. I'm not sure what this means in terms of a signing though. So far as I can tell, these are the possibilities for how it plays out at RW:

1. Habs re-sign Gallagher and Armia and go into 2021 with Gallagher-Anderson-Toffoli-Armia down the right side, as they do this year too. It means they don't open up room for Caufield or Ylonen in 2021. If they sign Gallagher and Armia to multi-year deals then how long do you wait before giving one of best prospects a shot?

At the same time, devoting 4.25M to Toffoli this year means you only need to get rid of a Byron or Kulak or Chiarot or so on. But it means the likelihood of retaining Gallagher, Tatar, and/or Danault go down. If you retain Toffoli, but trade Tatar are you better off? If you retain Toffoli at a lower price but lose Gallagher, are you better off?

At this point, the signing feels a lot like the Drouin trade. It requires another move to know the impact of it. If the move is to trade Tatar for a 2nd round pick, I think this signing is a loss. If the move is to let Tatar or Gallagher walk for nothing, it's a loss. If the move is to trade one of those two for a top-pairing LHD, it's a major win. The problem with the signing in isolation is that Toffoli isn't an upgrade on our top 6 as is, and if we lose a member of our top 6 as a result of devoting money and term to Toffoli, it just doesn't make sense. So to me, this signing is only a win if it allows you to trade an asset for something you need more than a right winger and then use Toffoli as a replacement.

You might be looking too far down the road in a cap world where you can’t always keep everyone. The Toffoli and Anderson deal should send a sign to Gallagher that this team is serious about winning - something he has publicly stated he wants before recommitting to the Habs next year. Toffoli provides increased depth against injuries with his ability to play LW too. If there’s a competition next year between Gallagher and Armia for a contract at RW next year and we can only keep one because Caufield or Ylonen are ready, then let the better performance win out. We only lose a player on an expiring contract if we are on the playoff bubble and fail to trade them as a rental. Exact same principle for Tatar - if his performance next year does not merit a reasonable contract then have we let him walk for nothing? Maybe Tatar is in a competition with Drouin on next years performance and you trade Drouin and resign Tatar. 

If we lose a member of our top 6 due to injury, you’ll be begging for a player like Toffoli to step into that. In isolation it’s an absolute upgrade on our top 6 depth 

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