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2020-21 State Of The Habs


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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Lines today:

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Toffoli-KK-Armia

Lehkonen-Evans-Byron

 

Chiarot-Weber

Edmundson-Petry

Kulak-Romanov

 

Forward lines make sense. The D lines not so much. Our top 4 is brutal, easily our weakest link.

Considering what we have, its pretty bad they are lining things up that way but honestly im not surprised.  Im actually more surprised Kulak is in the top 6 - i feel like the coaches dont love him. 

 

10 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Will players on the taxi squad count against the salary cap?

No - its like burying them in the minors (so, Weal, for example, would have 75% of his salary buried, Evans would have all of it) but they must pass through waivers to get to the taxi squad (even though they physically stay with the team).

I have a feeling less teams will claim guys on waivers to be honest. So much potential quarantining. 

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Personally I think our D is going to be great this year. as for how they are lined up I think due to the fact it is a very short camp then right into the action you pretty much have to go with what you think will work and get them all on the same page.

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On 1/4/2021 at 11:32 AM, BigTed3 said:

Lines today:

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Toffoli-KK-Armia

Lehkonen-Evans-Byron

 

Chiarot-Weber

Edmundson-Petry

Kulak-Romanov

 

Forward lines make sense. The D lines not so much. Our top 4 is brutal, easily our weakest link.

I'd rather see Lehk's , Poehling, Perry as a 4th line.

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20 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I'd rather see Lehk's , Poehling, Perry as a 4th line.

I agree with that - I’m not a fan of Evans upside and even Visio , and like Poehlings size - imo Byron and lehks can cover any weaknesses in Poehlings game as he improves 

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Here's what's going to happen with the Habs' line-up:

- There is a 100% chance that Drouin, Suzuki, Anderson, Gallagher, Danault, Tatar, Kotkaniemi, Toffoli, Armia, and Lehkonen are in the top 12 to start the year, barring a trade or injury. Those 10 guys are locks. It's a pretty safe bet given the short camps that the top 9 we're seeing is going to start that way too.

- That means there are 2 starting line-up spots and up to 4 forward spots left for Evans, Byron, Frolik, Perry, Weal, Poehling, or others. The advantage that Evans, Perry, and Frolik have is that they're all making 750k. Poehling is at a disadvantage because he's making 925k, not to mention there are no exhibition games for him to steal a spot, and we all know he's starting on the outside looking in. It's pretty clear to me the plan is for him to start in Laval and have to work his way up. It's more complicated when it comes to Byron and Weal, as you can only bury 1.075M per player in the minors. That means even if you demote them, Weal is costing us 325k and Byron 2.3125M. Keep those numbers in mind.

- On D, I think the 7 guys are pretty much set. If they trade Kulak, then Juulsen or Fleury would be cheaper but if Kulak is still in the organization, you don't save much by demoting him and keeping the cheaper guy because of the buried cap hit. The two goalies are also set. So really any savings that are coming to get under the cap are likely coming from the forward group.

- As it stands, if the Habs keep the 10 forwards I talked about above, they'd have a touch under 5.2M left to be able to fill out the forward group. Let's take away from the at the cost of burying Weal and Byron (because that component of their salaries is being charged to you no matter what you do with them) and that leaves you with a bit over 2.5M left. The additional cost to keep the remaining players, if you recall, would be

* Byron 1.075M

* Weal 1.075M

* Perry 750k

* Frolik 750k

* Evans 750k

- If you keep Byron (or Weal for that matter), you can only keep one other forward. If you don't keep those two, you could keep all three of the guys making 750k.

- So again, barring a trade or an injury or demoting Mete and just going 6 D men officially, the Habs will have the option of keeping Byron and one of Perry, Frolik, and Evans or else those 3 other guys. There really isn't going to be much room to maneuver. Evans doesn't need waivers, I believe, but he's also the only true center and he's currently penciled into the 4C role at practice, so it seems like he's going to stay. And if he does, that means it's either Byron OR Perry/Frolik that are staying and the other option is going on waivers. Do the Habs risk losing Byron or would they actually be hopeful that someone takes his contract off their hands? He's still a better player than Perry or Frolik, so my guess is they start the year with him and see if any injuries hit that allow them to just keep everyone long-term. But I would see Perry, Frolik, and Weal, along with Ouellet, Lindgren and maybe one of Juulsen/Leskinen as being the guys the Habs have targeted for the practice squad.

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Here's what's going to happen with the Habs' line-up:

- There is a 100% chance that Drouin, Suzuki, Anderson, Gallagher, Danault, Tatar, Kotkaniemi, Toffoli, Armia, and Lehkonen are in the top 12 to start the year, barring a trade or injury. Those 10 guys are locks. It's a pretty safe bet given the short camps that the top 9 we're seeing is going to start that way too.

- That means there are 2 starting line-up spots and up to 4 forward spots left for Evans, Byron, Frolik, Perry, Weal, Poehling, or others. The advantage that Evans, Perry, and Frolik have is that they're all making 750k. Poehling is at a disadvantage because he's making 925k, not to mention there are no exhibition games for him to steal a spot, and we all know he's starting on the outside looking in. It's pretty clear to me the plan is for him to start in Laval and have to work his way up. It's more complicated when it comes to Byron and Weal, as you can only bury 1.075M per player in the minors. That means even if you demote them, Weal is costing us 325k and Byron 2.3125M. Keep those numbers in mind.

- On D, I think the 7 guys are pretty much set. If they trade Kulak, then Juulsen or Fleury would be cheaper but if Kulak is still in the organization, you don't save much by demoting him and keeping the cheaper guy because of the buried cap hit. The two goalies are also set. So really any savings that are coming to get under the cap are likely coming from the forward group.

- As it stands, if the Habs keep the 10 forwards I talked about above, they'd have a touch under 5.2M left to be able to fill out the forward group. Let's take away from the at the cost of burying Weal and Byron (because that component of their salaries is being charged to you no matter what you do with them) and that leaves you with a bit over 2.5M left. The additional cost to keep the remaining players, if you recall, would be

* Byron 1.075M

* Weal 1.075M

* Perry 750k

* Frolik 750k

* Evans 750k

- If you keep Byron (or Weal for that matter), you can only keep one other forward. If you don't keep those two, you could keep all three of the guys making 750k.

- So again, barring a trade or an injury or demoting Mete and just going 6 D men officially, the Habs will have the option of keeping Byron and one of Perry, Frolik, and Evans or else those 3 other guys. There really isn't going to be much room to maneuver. Evans doesn't need waivers, I believe, but he's also the only true center and he's currently penciled into the 4C role at practice, so it seems like he's going to stay. And if he does, that means it's either Byron OR Perry/Frolik that are staying and the other option is going on waivers. Do the Habs risk losing Byron or would they actually be hopeful that someone takes his contract off their hands? He's still a better player than Perry or Frolik, so my guess is they start the year with him and see if any injuries hit that allow them to just keep everyone long-term. But I would see Perry, Frolik, and Weal, along with Ouellet, Lindgren and maybe one of Juulsen/Leskinen as being the guys the Habs have targeted for the practice squad.

Spot on analysis. And its why, even though I like Byron, moving him now is the single best move MB could make. Unfortunately, im not sure if there's many takers unless we include something to sweeten the deal.  He's a useful player and i think many teams would like to add him but not at the cost of his current contract.

Many of us were not super happy with the deal when MB gave it to him. At that time he was bottom six but probably, arguably 8-10 guy on this team. On this roster he may not even be top 12.  Thats just too much $$$ for a 4th line player. 

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5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Here's what's going to happen with the Habs' line-up:

- There is a 100% chance that Drouin, Suzuki, Anderson, Gallagher, Danault, Tatar, Kotkaniemi, Toffoli, Armia, and Lehkonen are in the top 12 to start the year, barring a trade or injury. Those 10 guys are locks. It's a pretty safe bet given the short camps that the top 9 we're seeing is going to start that way too.

- That means there are 2 starting line-up spots and up to 4 forward spots left for Evans, Byron, Frolik, Perry, Weal, Poehling, or others. The advantage that Evans, Perry, and Frolik have is that they're all making 750k. Poehling is at a disadvantage because he's making 925k, not to mention there are no exhibition games for him to steal a spot, and we all know he's starting on the outside looking in. It's pretty clear to me the plan is for him to start in Laval and have to work his way up. It's more complicated when it comes to Byron and Weal, as you can only bury 1.075M per player in the minors. That means even if you demote them, Weal is costing us 325k and Byron 2.3125M. Keep those numbers in mind.

- On D, I think the 7 guys are pretty much set. If they trade Kulak, then Juulsen or Fleury would be cheaper but if Kulak is still in the organization, you don't save much by demoting him and keeping the cheaper guy because of the buried cap hit. The two goalies are also set. So really any savings that are coming to get under the cap are likely coming from the forward group.

- As it stands, if the Habs keep the 10 forwards I talked about above, they'd have a touch under 5.2M left to be able to fill out the forward group. Let's take away from the at the cost of burying Weal and Byron (because that component of their salaries is being charged to you no matter what you do with them) and that leaves you with a bit over 2.5M left. The additional cost to keep the remaining players, if you recall, would be

* Byron 1.075M

* Weal 1.075M

* Perry 750k

* Frolik 750k

* Evans 750k

- If you keep Byron (or Weal for that matter), you can only keep one other forward. If you don't keep those two, you could keep all three of the guys making 750k.

- So again, barring a trade or an injury or demoting Mete and just going 6 D men officially, the Habs will have the option of keeping Byron and one of Perry, Frolik, and Evans or else those 3 other guys. There really isn't going to be much room to maneuver. Evans doesn't need waivers, I believe, but he's also the only true center and he's currently penciled into the 4C role at practice, so it seems like he's going to stay. And if he does, that means it's either Byron OR Perry/Frolik that are staying and the other option is going on waivers. Do the Habs risk losing Byron or would they actually be hopeful that someone takes his contract off their hands? He's still a better player than Perry or Frolik, so my guess is they start the year with him and see if any injuries hit that allow them to just keep everyone long-term. But I would see Perry, Frolik, and Weal, along with Ouellet, Lindgren and maybe one of Juulsen/Leskinen as being the guys the Habs have targeted for the practice squad.

There is another option here which I believe is most likely. Roster is 

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Taffoli-Kotkaniemi-Armia

Byron-    -Lehkonen 

Perry

Chiarot-Weber 

Edmundson-Petry

Kulak-Romanov

Mete

Taxi Squad

Weal

Evans

Poehling

Ouellet

McNiven

Total salary $80,791,309 leaving $708,691 cap space left. We run 7 D 11 F 2 G until we build enough daily cap to add Evans as 4C. We do this by moving 2 of Suzuki, Kotkaniemi and Romanov to the Taxi Squad on off days. This should only have to last maybe a week as we only need about $41,000 To bring Evans up full time. But we can continue to employ this strategy through the season to build deadline space by moving 2 of Evans, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi and Romanov to the Taxi Squad on off days. Romanov and Kotkaniemi make the most sense seeing as they are the highest paid 2 of the group. That way we won't lose Mete and Perry to waivers and our only real player at risk is Frolik. McNiven is on the Taxi Squad for experience as Lindgren will be in Laval helping Demchenko and mentoring Primeau.

 

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The Montreal Canadiens have started to trim their roster for the opening of the 2021 NHL season by placing nine players on waivers on Sunday. The nine players were Brandon Baddock, Alex Belzile, Joseph Blandisi, Laurent Dauphin, Jordan Weal, Noah Juulsen, Gustav Olofsson, Xavier Ouellet, and Charlie Lindgren.

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2 hours ago, habs1952 said:

The Montreal Canadiens have started to trim their roster for the opening of the 2021 NHL season by placing nine players on waivers on Sunday. The nine players were Brandon Baddock, Alex Belzile, Joseph Blandisi, Laurent Dauphin, Jordan Weal, Noah Juulsen, Gustav Olofsson, Xavier Ouellet, and Charlie Lindgren.

none of those are a big surprise although i wish that Juulsen wasnt on that list. Will be interesting to see if someone picks him up. He's obviously a long way behind track because of the injuries but i still think he's an NHL defensman and possibly a top 4 if the injuries are truly behind him. That said, now is the time to do it, while other teams are also waiving lots of players. Risk is probably low he'll get snatched. 

If Weal's salary wasnt so high I could see him going. I think there could be interest in either Ouellet or Olofsson who are both fringe #6-7 guys but there will be a bunch of players like that from almost every team on waiver right now anyway so its highly unlikely we'll lose anyone. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

none of those are a big surprise although i wish that Juulsen wasnt on that list. Will be interesting to see if someone picks him up. He's obviously a long way behind track because of the injuries but i still think he's an NHL defensman and possibly a top 4 if the injuries are truly behind him. That said, now is the time to do it, while other teams are also waiving lots of players. Risk is probably low he'll get snatched. 

If Weal's salary wasnt so high I could see him going. I think there could be interest in either Ouellet or Olofsson who are both fringe #6-7 guys but there will be a bunch of players like that from almost every team on waiver right now anyway so its highly unlikely we'll lose anyone. 

I entirely agree with you on Juulsen - I’m hoping no one decides to take that risk on him and he flies below the radar. I’m hoping Noah gets a fair shot on improving his upside. 

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20 hours ago, maas_art said:

Spot on analysis. And its why, even though I like Byron, moving him now is the single best move MB could make. Unfortunately, im not sure if there's many takers unless we include something to sweeten the deal.  He's a useful player and i think many teams would like to add him but not at the cost of his current contract.

Many of us were not super happy with the deal when MB gave it to him. At that time he was bottom six but probably, arguably 8-10 guy on this team. On this roster he may not even be top 12.  Thats just too much $$$ for a 4th line player. 

IMO Byron is easily better than Perry and Frolik. But the question is whether the extra 2.7M is worth that upgrade, especially when you're talking about a guy likely to play 8-10 minutes a night on the 4th line. He likely isn't when you don't have the cap room to work with. The only thing about Byron is that as an injury replacement, you can move Byron up and down the line-up to fill in for short bursts, whereas Perry probably can't keep up with the top-end speed of our line-up and Frolik doesn't have as much skill.

FWIW, I hated the Byron signing when it happened. Ditto for Weal. Ditto for most of the other similar deals for the likes of Prust, Moen, Flynn, etc. I have been adamant about this, but I see no reason to give medium-to-long term deals to bottom-tier players. You can find another guy to fill that role for cheaper, as we're seeing right now. Maybe Byron is better, but you can still adequately fill out your 4th line with a free agent signing like Perry or Frolik or a younger guy like Poehling or Evans or so on. I hate the idea of locking into role players and journeymen in the cap era, and the same can be said on D where we gave longer-term deals to players like Alzner, Chiarot, and Edmundson. Are they really any better than Kulak, Mete, Romanov, Juulsen, or Fleury, all of whom are playing for much cheaper contracts?

 

19 hours ago, campabee82 said:

There is another option here which I believe is most likely. Roster is 

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Taffoli-Kotkaniemi-Armia

Byron-    -Lehkonen 

Perry

Chiarot-Weber 

Edmundson-Petry

Kulak-Romanov

Mete

Taxi Squad

Weal

Evans

Poehling

Ouellet

McNiven

Total salary $80,791,309 leaving $708,691 cap space left. We run 7 D 11 F 2 G until we build enough daily cap to add Evans as 4C. We do this by moving 2 of Suzuki, Kotkaniemi and Romanov to the Taxi Squad on off days. This should only have to last maybe a week as we only need about $41,000 To bring Evans up full time. But we can continue to employ this strategy through the season to build deadline space by moving 2 of Evans, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi and Romanov to the Taxi Squad on off days. Romanov and Kotkaniemi make the most sense seeing as they are the highest paid 2 of the group. That way we won't lose Mete and Perry to waivers and our only real player at risk is Frolik. McNiven is on the Taxi Squad for experience as Lindgren will be in Laval helping Demchenko and mentoring Primeau.

 

 

Money-wise your line-up works, but in practice I don't think it will happen. Byron isn't a true center, and I think the fact Evans was stuck on the 4th line for the entire camp and got to play the scrimmage there and played well all camp, I just don't see the Habs deviating from the plan to use him there. I also think MB has it in the back of his mind that if things don't work out with Danault contract-wise, Evans is the heir-apparent to filling that two-way center role for cheap (the way Danault took over for Eller). So I would be surprised if they didn't start the year with Evans as the 4C. Yes, you could send him down for a bit, but then there's always the chance that he loses confidence like what happened to Poehling when they sent him down last year despite a great camp.

CJ seemed to say today that the Habs were going to start the year with a roster of 21. So that means one extra D and one extra forward. I think Evans is now a near-lock to be there as the 4C. I think the big question is whether they can move Byron or not. I don't think they do/will. I think he starts the year on the 4th with Lehkonen and Evans. I think Perry is the 13th forward if they can fit the money under the cap. They've already also been really clear that younger guys will go to Laval to play and not sit on the practice squad, so Juulsen, Fleury, Ylonen, Primeau, and Poehling for example are not going to be practice squad guys. The practice squad is going to be made up of the likes of Weal, Frolik, Leskinen, Ouellet, Olofsson, Lindgren, etc.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

IMO Byron is easily better than Perry and Frolik. But the question is whether the extra 2.7M is worth that upgrade, especially when you're talking about a guy likely to play 8-10 minutes a night on the 4th line. He likely isn't when you don't have the cap room to work with. The only thing about Byron is that as an injury replacement, you can move Byron up and down the line-up to fill in for short bursts, whereas Perry probably can't keep up with the top-end speed of our line-up and Frolik doesn't have as much skill.

FWIW, I hated the Byron signing when it happened. Ditto for Weal. Ditto for most of the other similar deals for the likes of Prust, Moen, Flynn, etc. I have been adamant about this, but I see no reason to give medium-to-long term deals to bottom-tier players. You can find another guy to fill that role for cheaper, as we're seeing right now. Maybe Byron is better, but you can still adequately fill out your 4th line with a free agent signing like Perry or Frolik or a younger guy like Poehling or Evans or so on. I hate the idea of locking into role players and journeymen in the cap era, and the same can be said on D where we gave longer-term deals to players like Alzner, Chiarot, and Edmundson. Are they really any better than Kulak, Mete, Romanov, Juulsen, or Fleury, all of whom are playing for much cheaper contracts?

 

 

Money-wise your line-up works, but in practice I don't think it will happen. Byron isn't a true center, and I think the fact Evans was stuck on the 4th line for the entire camp and got to play the scrimmage there and played well all camp, I just don't see the Habs deviating from the plan to use him there. I also think MB has it in the back of his mind that if things don't work out with Danault contract-wise, Evans is the heir-apparent to filling that two-way center role for cheap (the way Danault took over for Eller). So I would be surprised if they didn't start the year with Evans as the 4C. Yes, you could send him down for a bit, but then there's always the chance that he loses confidence like what happened to Poehling when they sent him down last year despite a great camp.

CJ seemed to say today that the Habs were going to start the year with a roster of 21. So that means one extra D and one extra forward. I think Evans is now a near-lock to be there as the 4C. I think the big question is whether they can move Byron or not. I don't think they do/will. I think he starts the year on the 4th with Lehkonen and Evans. I think Perry is the 13th forward if they can fit the money under the cap. They've already also been really clear that younger guys will go to Laval to play and not sit on the practice squad, so Juulsen, Fleury, Ylonen, Primeau, and Poehling for example are not going to be practice squad guys. The practice squad is going to be made up of the likes of Weal, Frolik, Leskinen, Ouellet, Olofsson, Lindgren, etc.

Ok I never had Byron at center at all lol. I would think with the above lineup Danault would double shift with Byron and Lehkonen on the wings. It just makes it easier if we don't have to risk Perry as he is the one guy I think we have that will be claimed other than Mete. We only need to build 41k cap space to bring Evans up from the Taxi Squad, I think that could be achieved inside of a week. Then it is simply building cap space for the deadline or to bring up a 23rd roster player. Which should only take about a month of playing with a 22 man roster. 

 

Not to contradict you but 1 Extra forward and 1 Extra D man would be a 22 man roster and that would put us 41k over the cap. Hence the reason I see Evans starting on the taxi squad. Otherwise we waive everyone but Mete and risk losing all of Juulsen, Frolik and Perry. Which IMO would be rediculous seeing as we just signed both Frolik and Perry and now we may lose them for nothing.

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14 hours ago, claremont said:

Anyone watching the live feed scrimmage on RDS? For all those Byron bashers he exploded with speed on a nice short handed goal just blowing by Ouellette and wow is Romanov ever strong and fluid on his skates  

Im not sure if you're including me in the "byron bashers" group but FWIW as ive said countless times, Byron is a good player - any team would be happy to have him and if we weren't iin cap issues id like him too but at $3.4m he's the most logical player to move. There are easily 5, maybe 6 or 7 forwards on this team that rank higher than him on the depth chart but make less money than him.  When you're tight against the cap (or over it as we are) you dont have that luxury. 

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48 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Im not sure if you're including me in the "byron bashers" group but FWIW as ive said countless times, Byron is a good player - any team would be happy to have him and if we weren't iin cap issues id like him too but at $3.4m he's the most logical player to move. There are easily 5, maybe 6 or 7 forwards on this team that rank higher than him on the depth chart but make less money than him.  When you're tight against the cap (or over it as we are) you dont have that luxury. 

Agreed. I think you would be hard pressed to find ANYBODY in here who would bash Byron. Most ( like myself) like the guy and what he brings to the team. Hated the term from day 1 on his contract. It was a total blunder by MB to dish out that kind of deal for a fringe top 9 player. Guys like that you give them 1 year deals and at the very most 2. You can't handcuff your team with stupid deals like that.

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Juulsen claimed by florida :(  Not surprising but was hoping he'd slip through.


Perry and Frolik on waivers today. I suppose that was MB's plan: sign a whole bunch of guys, if they make it through waivers then you have help on the taxi squad... sort of surprised Perry is there - id rank him in our top 13-  but i guess it is what it is. 

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25 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Juulsen claimed by florida :(  Not surprising but was hoping he'd slip through.


Perry and Frolik on waivers today. I suppose that was MB's plan: sign a whole bunch of guys, if they make it through waivers then you have help on the taxi squad... sort of surprised Perry is there - id rank him in our top 13-  but i guess it is what it is. 

Yes I would have liked to of seen Juulsen get another chance with the Habs, hope he does well in Florida.

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1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

Agreed. I think you would be hard pressed to find ANYBODY in here who would bash Byron. Most ( like myself) like the guy and what he brings to the team. Hated the term from day 1 on his contract. It was a total blunder by MB to dish out that kind of deal for a fringe top 9 player. Guys like that you give them 1 year deals and at the very most 2. You can't handcuff your team with stupid deals like that.

He’s far from a fringe 9. He’s an established snd bonafide top 9. Easily slides in onto a second line. The fact he’s on the fourth is testimony to the current quality of players. 

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10 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Ok I never had Byron at center at all lol. I would think with the above lineup Danault would double shift with Byron and Lehkonen on the wings. It just makes it easier if we don't have to risk Perry as he is the one guy I think we have that will be claimed other than Mete. We only need to build 41k cap space to bring Evans up from the Taxi Squad, I think that could be achieved inside of a week. Then it is simply building cap space for the deadline or to bring up a 23rd roster player. Which should only take about a month of playing with a 22 man roster. 

 

Not to contradict you but 1 Extra forward and 1 Extra D man would be a 22 man roster and that would put us 41k over the cap. Hence the reason I see Evans starting on the taxi squad. Otherwise we waive everyone but Mete and risk losing all of Juulsen, Frolik and Perry. Which IMO would be rediculous seeing as we just signed both Frolik and Perry and now we may lose them for nothing.

You called it man. That’s exactly so. And it’s fine. 

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