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2020-21 State Of The Habs


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7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Up until this year, Byron had scored 15 in each of his last 3 full seasons. He was injured last year and then the season ended...

Armia too has scored 13 goals in 57 games, 16 in 58, and 5 in 24 in his three seasons in Montreal. That's a pace for over 15 goals per 82 games every year.

Lehkonen likewise has hit 15+ once and was on pace for 15 in two other seasons if he had played 82 games. So that's 3 of 4 seasons for 15 goals before this one.

For bottom 6 players, I don't think any of them are weak. They can't play in the top 6 consistently, but they're completely adequate bottom 6 guys who can play defence and add some amount of offence. That said, the biggest issue with them is that it's a fair chunk of money invested in bottom 6 players, especially Byron's contract. Would we be any worse off using younger players like Ylonen, Poehling, etc. for less money?

 

Not sure why we are bringing up the past seasons? Perry scored a lot in the past too and Webber was a stud Dman in the past, right now this season they are weak. heck old man Perry has scored more goals than each of them in less games this year. I am with you on playing younger pl;ayers who cost less to free up cap for better players in key positions. I like these players but they have shown us what they have and it is not enough anymore if we want to really get better it will have to be across the board if young guns earning near the league minimum can do what they do then bye bye!

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3 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Not sure why we are bringing up the past seasons? Perry scored a lot in the past too and Webber was a stud Dman in the past, right now this season they are weak. heck old man Perry has scored more goals than each of them in less games this year. I am with you on playing younger players who cost less to free up cap for better players in key positions. I like these players but they have shown us what they have and it is not enough anymore if we want to really get better it will have to be across the board if young guns earning near the league minimum can do what they do then bye bye!

So the young guns are tearing it up really? JK 5/14/19 Weber 5/12/17 and he's not a center, Suzuki 7/17/24 Perry 9/7/16 (A lot less time) So how is it the "old" guys aren't helping the team? Hmmm Petry even Toffolii isn't a kid. Most teams that do win usually have a mix of solid veterans and youth. Not many are ever the whole team is young guys. You just have to have the right mix. In todays game you need a mix because even having 2-3 pure stars like Edmonton /Toronto eat up the cap and you have a hard time building the rest of the team with the players you need. Always losing getting top picks doesn't always work. Look in the last 5 years how high Buffalo has had? 

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12 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

So the young guns are tearing it up really? JK 5/14/19 Weber 5/12/17 and he's not a center, Suzuki 7/17/24 Perry 9/7/16 (A lot less time) So how is it the "old" guys aren't helping the team? Hmmm Petry even Toffolii isn't a kid. Most teams that do win usually have a mix of solid veterans and youth. Not many are ever the whole team is young guys. You just have to have the right mix. In todays game you need a mix because even having 2-3 pure stars like Edmonton /Toronto eat up the cap and you have a hard time building the rest of the team with the players you need. Always losing getting top picks doesn't always work. Look in the last 5 years how high Buffalo has had? 

I have no idea what you are talking about, I was responding to a specific post.

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7 hours ago, richard464 said:

"I'm not saying there's no joy in making the playoffs. And if you told me it was a given the Habs would not win a Cup in the next 20 years, then yes, I'd rather make the playoff each of those years than not make it. BUT that's not the way the NHL works. When you finish really poorly, the NHL rewards you with top 5 draft picks and that frankly increases your chances of winning a Cup later down the line. So all I'm saying is give me a few great chances at winning a Cup rather than a couple more playoff appearances with virtually no chance at winning a Cup."

 

Well if the current course continues as it has in the last 12 years then I guess making the playoffs every year will be the highlight of the Habs seasons over the next 20.:6396:

:6188:

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Habs this year

1-3-1 against Toronto

2-3-3 against Winnipeg

1-3 against Calgary

3-2-2 against Ottawa

4-1 against Edmonton

6-0-3 against Vancouver

 

The day Bergevin acknowledges that Shea Weber is a #4 defenceman is the day we can move forward with a real plan. If MB continues to preach that Weber is his best player, no progress can be made.

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1 minute ago, BigTed3 said:

The day Bergevin acknowledges that Shea Weber is a #4 defenceman is the day we can move forward with a real plan. If MB continues to preach that Weber is his best player, no progress can be made.

When a coach is canned they say he lost the room. I think Weber has lost the room leadership after this egg filled debacle with Winnipeg nailing us 5-0 tonight. Weber talks about everyone having to be accountable - a few players should voluntarily bench themselves and he might lead the way! I saw very little leadership this evening. MB is crazy if he thinks he should add any meaningful trade rental to this team and give up any prospects. Suck it up princess, acknowledge your limited success about making the playoffs and let this team battle the laffs as is. We don't know how lucky we were to have dodged a Danault re-signing. 

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36 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Habs this year

1-3-1 against Toronto

2-3-3 against Winnipeg

1-3 against Calgary

3-2-2 against Ottawa

4-1 against Edmonton

6-0-3 against Vancouver

 

The day Bergevin acknowledges that Shea Weber is a #4 defenceman is the day we can move forward with a real plan. If MB continues to preach that Weber is his best player, no progress can be made.

And we're finished with Vancouver. 😭

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28 minutes ago, richard464 said:

Wow! This ship is in trouble! The rudder has been lost and the captain (DD) and the Admiral (MB) were last seen rowing away in a life boat for a beach somewhere in the Pacific.:7013:

Lotta unhappy chatter on Twitter.  Reporters, everyone bashing the Habs. Pathetic effort. DD trying to discreetly point out that his defensemen are no good, without actually saying it. Do you thing bergevin is listening?

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I get the need to continue about how weak our dee is but come one have a look at the forwards as well.

Top left winger has 2 goals. 5.5 million

Our so called top centerman was offerred 30 million has 4 goals...

Our third line centerman who has taken JK spot, cannot skate from one end of the rink to the other. Its like watchin a novice kid playing hockey for the first time, skating to where the puck is, the only problem is when he finally gets there the puck is somewhere else. . 

Suszuki and JK get some slack both young kids still learning the game. JK was being groomed to be a top line centerman, it doesnt help playing him on the right wing. His game was getting better down the middle actually, until old man staal arrived.

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34 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

I get the need to continue about how weak our dee is but come one have a look at the forwards as well.

Top left winger has 2 goals. 5.5 million

Our so called top centerman was offerred 30 million has 4 goals...

Our third line centerman who has taken JK spot, cannot skate from one end of the rink to the other. Its like watchin a novice kid playing hockey for the first time, skating to where the puck is, the only problem is when he finally gets there the puck is somewhere else. . 

Suszuki and JK get some slack both young kids still learning the game. JK was being groomed to be a top line centerman, it doesnt help playing him on the right wing. His game was getting better down the middle actually, until old man staal arrived.

no question.  This roster is NOT as bad as we are seeing and some of the blame needs to go on the coaches for the lines. 

My thoughts:

- Weber needs to get pushed down the lineup. I dont care if its an injury, a slump or just time catching up with him. He is NOT a #1 defensman right now. Push him to 2nd or even 3rd pair for a bit. Get some confidence back. He looks broken and lost out there. 

- JK needs to be at centre. End of story.

- I understand wanting to use guys like Staal and Perry because they were once elite players but they are both in the twilight of their careers. Use them as 4th line exploitation/PP specialists. 

- I dont want to rush Caufield but if they think he's ready... id consider a Toffoli - JK - Caufield line. 

- Kulak-Petry has been our best pair but id be inclined to break them up.  Edmundson-Petry was ok & allows us to give Weber a much more mobile partner. 

If i had my way i would try:
Tatar - Suzuki - Anderson
Drouin - JK - Toffoli
Lehkonen - Danault - Byron
Perry - Staal - Evans

Edmundson - Petry
Kulak - Weber
Romanov - Mete/Leskinen

 

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"When there are less than 20 games left in a season, the style of play changes. It isn't the same as before. At this time of year, you pay for your mistakes. If you make one, it's going to hurt you. We have to find a way to be consistent. Our players are comfortable with what we want to do. We just need to be more consistent from an execution standpoint."

The above statement was made by DD in the very humourous "Quotes of the Day". I have been reading this same quote for 7 weeks now! If not from him from others. No quote from Mr. weber today? I just love the opening line don't you? Really the "style of play changes."  Changes to what????  "We have to find a way to be consistent." I think the last three games have shown we have already done that!!!!

This team is lost! They are totally confused out on the ice! They have no idea where their linemate is, they cannot bury the puck, can't even hit the net and there is very seldom that second shot effort. Our 5.5 million dollar Drouin missed three open nets last night! I still have no idea why this guy is still in Montreal? We gave up a pretty good defenceman for this waste of a uniform winger. There is a lot of dead weight on this team and that is all on Bergevin. No team manager and no coaching. What the hell happened to our PP? They were doing really well and now can't get over the opposition blueline? Mr. Borrows just another flash in the dark?

Not sure who is left on the trade block for Monday but maybe we should just trade everyone we have other than the young guys for whoever is left and start over! The Flames won last night and are now six points behind us. We play the Leafs Mon, The Flames Wed & Fri and the Sen on Sat which is another B2B.

By the end of the week we could very well be in fifth place. 

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From what I have seen in my last 69 years is what a winner looks like. Sad to say, for the 28 years that this team is rebuilding, not even close to another Cup. Really, is there any one out there that thinks this team is a contender, not just for a Stanley Cup, but the playoffs.  Where are all these great draft picks, you know, the ones that score goals? When was the last time this team had anyone even close to winning a scoring title. Lets just pass the torch now for another 30 years.

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10 hours ago, maas_art said:

no question.  This roster is NOT as bad as we are seeing and some of the blame needs to go on the coaches for the lines. 

My thoughts:

- Weber needs to get pushed down the lineup. I dont care if its an injury, a slump or just time catching up with him. He is NOT a #1 defensman right now. Push him to 2nd or even 3rd pair for a bit. Get some confidence back. He looks broken and lost out there. 

- JK needs to be at centre. End of story.

- I understand wanting to use guys like Staal and Perry because they were once elite players but they are both in the twilight of their careers. Use them as 4th line exploitation/PP specialists. 

- I dont want to rush Caufield but if they think he's ready... id consider a Toffoli - JK - Caufield line. 

- Kulak-Petry has been our best pair but id be inclined to break them up.  Edmundson-Petry was ok & allows us to give Weber a much more mobile partner. 

If i had my way i would try:
Tatar - Suzuki - Anderson
Drouin - JK - Toffoli
Lehkonen - Danault - Byron
Perry - Staal - Evans

Edmundson - Petry
Kulak - Weber
Romanov - Mete/Leskinen

 

Agreed with all of this. We posted the exact same D pairings. Up front, I think it's clear that Staal and Perry need to be 4th liners. Staal is a good face-off man and Perry is great on the PP, but they don't have the legs to keep up at ES for big minutes. Much more effective in limited roles. Kotkaniemi needs to play at center, he was making great progress there and it is stupid to derail that to try and satisfy at 35+ year old rental who will likely play a total of 20 games for the Habs in his entire career.

As for the rest of the line-up, I think the premises for building it have to be

- Suzuki and JK are your top two centers (in terms of getting the best offensive wingers and best zone starts)

- Danault should get your tough match-ups but gets third-best winger set. He and Lehkonen make a great duo and should be on the same line.

- Staal and Perry on the 4th.

- Drouin needs to have a big body power winger on the other side. It could be Anderson, it could be Armia. I find he's been more effective when he has that.

And one last thought, but if we're not going to use Mete as a defenceman over Leskinen, I wonder if it isn't worth at least a look at him on the wing of the 4th line. I still think Evans would benefit from sitting in the press box or a stint in the AHL to refine things and simplify his game. He looks lost. I don't know that putting a puck-carrier like Mete out there with less defensive responsibility would necessarily be any worse.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Agreed with all of this. We posted the exact same D pairings. Up front, I think it's clear that Staal and Perry need to be 4th liners. Staal is a good face-off man and Perry is great on the PP, but they don't have the legs to keep up at ES for big minutes. Much more effective in limited roles. Kotkaniemi needs to play at center, he was making great progress there and it is stupid to derail that to try and satisfy at 35+ year old rental who will likely play a total of 20 games for the Habs in his entire career.

As for the rest of the line-up, I think the premises for building it have to be

- Suzuki and JK are your top two centers (in terms of getting the best offensive wingers and best zone starts)

- Danault should get your tough match-ups but gets third-best winger set. He and Lehkonen make a great duo and should be on the same line.

- Staal and Perry on the 4th.

- Drouin needs to have a big body power winger on the other side. It could be Anderson, it could be Armia. I find he's been more effective when he has that.

And one last thought, but if we're not going to use Mete as a defenceman over Leskinen, I wonder if it isn't worth at least a look at him on the wing of the 4th line. I still think Evans would benefit from sitting in the press box or a stint in the AHL to refine things and simplify his game. He looks lost. I don't know that putting a puck-carrier like Mete out there with less defensive responsibility would necessarily be any worse.

Slightly more promising lineup at practice today:

Tatar/Armia - Danault - Byron
Toffoli - Suzuki - Evans
Drouin - JK - Anderson
Lehks - Staal - Perry

Kulak - Weber
Edmundon - Petry
Romanov - Leskinen

Mete placed on waivers... 

 

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14 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Slightly more promising lineup at practice today:

Tatar/Armia - Danault - Byron
Toffoli - Suzuki - Evans
Drouin - JK - Anderson
Lehks - Staal - Perry

Kulak - Weber
Edmundon - Petry
Romanov - Leskinen

Mete placed on waivers... 

 

D combos make a bit more sense than continuing to pair Weber with another slow guy.

As for forwards, nice to see Staal/Perry on the 4th, and I like the JK line. Not sure about the Suzuki line, might have preferred to see Tatar or Byron there over Evans.

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On a separate note, Brian Wilde had previously written that he would expose both Weber and Price in the ED (assuming Price waives his NMC). He said he wouldn't have been doing it with the belief either would be claimed but rather because he doesn't think Seattle would touch either one on account of their contracts. And he adds that if you did lose one, it would be worth it to get out of their contracts. That said, need to also consider the possibility that a third team could approach Seattle and offer them compensation in exchange for selecting one of those guys and turning around and trading them. So not just about Seattle there, because Seattle could use them as bargaining chips. If you expose them in the draft, you're essentially saying you think they have no trade value yourself.

Now today, with the Mete news, Brian Wilde says they waived the wrong guy. He says he doesn't understand how waiving Mete saves you much to make a trade (you would have to need Gallagher's LTIR space + need that extra 835k to fit your guy under the cap, meaning they'd need to be looking at a guy making more than 3.75M but less than 4.6M in additional salary). He said if they were really looking to waive someone to create cap space, it once again should have been Weber, who has little trade value but whose contract would be big to get out from underneath.

So just to think about that for a second, but one of the more respected Habs beat writers has essentially suggested twice now that Weber's contract is more of a hindrance to the team than his on-ice worth is a positive. This is from a guy who watches the team every day and has pretty insightful commentary on them (he both praises and denounces them for things and he's not a purely negative or purely positive guy)...

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3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

On a separate note, Brian Wilde had previously written that he would expose both Weber and Price in the ED (assuming Price waives his NMC). He said he wouldn't have been doing it with the belief either would be claimed but rather because he doesn't think Seattle would touch either one on account of their contracts. And he adds that if you did lose one, it would be worth it to get out of their contracts. That said, need to also consider the possibility that a third team could approach Seattle and offer them compensation in exchange for selecting one of those guys and turning around and trading them. So not just about Seattle there, because Seattle could use them as bargaining chips. If you expose them in the draft, you're essentially saying you think they have no trade value yourself.

Now today, with the Mete news, Brian Wilde says they waived the wrong guy. He says he doesn't understand how waiving Mete saves you much to make a trade (you would have to need Gallagher's LTIR space + need that extra 835k to fit your guy under the cap, meaning they'd need to be looking at a guy making more than 3.75M but less than 4.6M in additional salary). He said if they were really looking to waive someone to create cap space, it once again should have been Weber, who has little trade value but whose contract would be big to get out from underneath.

So just to think about that for a second, but one of the more respected Habs beat writers has essentially suggested twice now that Weber's contract is more of a hindrance to the team than his on-ice worth is a positive. This is from a guy who watches the team every day and has pretty insightful commentary on them (he both praises and denounces them for things and he's not a purely negative or purely positive guy)...

Brian Wilde is a weirdo. He even called barstool mispgynist. I'm sorry but as much as I recognize Weber hasn't been good, I value him much more that I do Mete. If Weber was being waived than you'd have to sit him, and I going to go out on a limb here and say that he's still one of our top 6 d men

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8 minutes ago, Shutoutfan said:

Wouldnt be the best case at this point if Weber retires after this season and Nashville would be on the hook for most of his cap money?

Personally I still think he's worth keeping. But in any case, I don't see him retiring until his salary drops which would be after next year (drops to 3 million) or the year after (drops to 1 million). We won't be in much of a cap crunch to next 2 years anyway, we can re-sign the guys we want

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46 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

D combos make a bit more sense than continuing to pair Weber with another slow guy.

As for forwards, nice to see Staal/Perry on the 4th, and I like the JK line. Not sure about the Suzuki line, might have preferred to see Tatar or Byron there over Evans.

Yeah i wonder how Armia subbing in will change things. We have a lot of guys who can play both wings but Armia pretty much always plays RW so him subbing in at LW makes me think one of those guys at RW is just a placeholder.  

39 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

On a separate note, Brian Wilde had previously written that he would expose both Weber and Price in the ED (assuming Price waives his NMC). He said he wouldn't have been doing it with the belief either would be claimed but rather because he doesn't think Seattle would touch either one on account of their contracts. And he adds that if you did lose one, it would be worth it to get out of their contracts. That said, need to also consider the possibility that a third team could approach Seattle and offer them compensation in exchange for selecting one of those guys and turning around and trading them. So not just about Seattle there, because Seattle could use them as bargaining chips. If you expose them in the draft, you're essentially saying you think they have no trade value yourself.

Now today, with the Mete news, Brian Wilde says they waived the wrong guy. He says he doesn't understand how waiving Mete saves you much to make a trade (you would have to need Gallagher's LTIR space + need that extra 835k to fit your guy under the cap, meaning they'd need to be looking at a guy making more than 3.75M but less than 4.6M in additional salary). He said if they were really looking to waive someone to create cap space, it once again should have been Weber, who has little trade value but whose contract would be big to get out from underneath.

So just to think about that for a second, but one of the more respected Habs beat writers has essentially suggested twice now that Weber's contract is more of a hindrance to the team than his on-ice worth is a positive. This is from a guy who watches the team every day and has pretty insightful commentary on them (he both praises and denounces them for things and he's not a purely negative or purely positive guy)...

I dont totally disagree with his assessment, but i think his solution is a bit extreme.  Is Shea Weber a #1 dman who can carry a pairing anymore? Absolutely not. Is he a top pairing guy who can play well alongside a better LHD?  I dont think so but he also hasnt been given that chance. Is he a 2nd or 3rd pairing Dman who can do fine with a competent partner... id be pretty sure he is.  So to waive him seems like a bad idea.  I understand that Mete is better "value" than Weber right now but he's still not even close to being as good. Imagine Weber on the 3rd pair, he'd be night and day bette than Mete.

 Its not like we're overflowing with #2-4 dmen.   We have lots of 3rd pairing guys but id hazard a guess that Shea is better than any of them and, if used appropriately, is probably still among our top 2-3 guys. I just think usage is a huge problem right now. Adding Kulak to his pair is good but he's still likely to get tougher matchups than he's capable of handling - at least until his confidence comes back. That giveaway in front of his own net last night was pure "overthinking & trying to do too much."  He needs to loosen up & stop second guessing himself. 

 

28 minutes ago, Shutoutfan said:

Wouldnt be the best case at this point if Weber retires after this season and Nashville would be on the hook for most of his cap money?

 

18 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Personally I still think he's worth keeping. But in any case, I don't see him retiring until his salary drops which would be after next year (drops to 3 million) or the year after (drops to 1 million). We won't be in much of a cap crunch to next 2 years anyway, we can re-sign the guys we want

Yeah until we have clearly better options I think id want to keep him.  Im still convinced he's an effective player, i just dont think he's a #1 top pairing guy any more.  If you magically acquired a top pairing LHD then maybe weber is ok there but failing that, if you put him on the second pair with a competent partner like Kulak I think he'd still be ok. Not prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater simply because Weber isnt able to take on top pairing duties anymore. 

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