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2020-21 State Of The Habs


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6 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

Just tossing this out to see others opinions....

 

Would like to see the habs move on from Drouin move him for a pick and take a run at signing Hoffman.

 

Yes we get older but I believe we get a much more rounded player that will play the 200' game

I'm all for swapping Drouin for a used backup zamboni and and a round of drinks ........................:freu1:

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7 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

Just tossing this out to see others opinions....

 

Would like to see the habs move on from Drouin move him for a pick and take a run at signing Hoffman.

 

Yes we get older but I believe we get a much more rounded player that will play the 200' game

What if instead of moving Drouin we move Tatar to Nashville for a 1st + Ried. We may have to let Nashville work out an extention before the trade is finalized. Then simultaneously we OS DeBrusk at 5x5? We get a goal scorer who is only 24. We would have to move out Kulak as well to make money work but you could bring up Juulsen and Belzile and add a player on a league min contract like Perry or Kovy for depth.

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I'm liking all this talk of getting rid of Drouin.  It would mean, that Bergy would have to admit that he made a big mistake.  And I thought that it was only a couple of us, that thought Drouin had to go. What's that called, "Getting better by subtraction?" Drouin is the anti-thesis of what Bergy & Julien want in a player, No grit! No heart! I still remember that shoot out whiff. Pretty well sealed the deal for me.

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10 hours ago, electron58 said:

I'm liking all this talk of getting rid of Drouin.  It would mean, that Bergy would have to admit that he made a big mistake.  And I thought that it was only a couple of us, that thought Drouin had to go. What's that called, "Getting better by subtraction?" Drouin is the anti-thesis of what Bergy & Julien want in a player, No grit! No heart! I still remember that shoot out whiff. Pretty well sealed the deal for me.

While I am not opposed to moving Drouin,  "getting better by subtraction" means the spot of player you are moving would be better filled by basically any other player and thats imho a huge stretch.

He may be incredibly frustrating,but he's still a career average 50 point player (.60ppg) which is an upper end player in the NHL.  I understand he's a floater at times but the idea that throwing him away & replacing him with an AHL player or a 4th liner makes the team better is just not true.  

 

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On 10/28/2020 at 1:30 PM, maas_art said:

Thats fair (and good breakdowns) but i read it as "for the 2020-21 season" and I would guess, based on their rankings, Button and Johnson did too. 

If we were talking only about the coming season, I would rank the teams' shot at winning the Cup as

1. Toronto

2. Montreal

3. Calgary

4. Vancouver

5. Edmonton

6. Winnipeg

7. Ottawa

 

But as I alluded to before, I don't see any of the Canadian teams as having a particularly good chance at a Cup next year, so to me a team like Toronto or Calgary is blowing through their "window" without being a top 5 team. They're neither a top contender now nor are things looking up for them in the future. So as a franchise, I wouldn't necessarily want to be in their shoes.

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8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

If we were talking only about the coming season, I would rank the teams' shot at winning the Cup as

1. Toronto2. Montreal3. Calgary4. Vancouver5. Edmonton6. Winnipeg7. Ottawa

But as I alluded to before, I don't see any of the Canadian teams as having a particularly good chance at a Cup next year, so to me a team like Toronto or Calgary is blowing through their "window" without being a top 5 team. They're neither a top contender now nor are things looking up for them in the future. So as a franchise, I wouldn't necessarily want to be in their shoes.

I don’t know that Toronto as much as I despise them is blowing thru their window. They have a very young explosive core of forwards and not a really aged defence. The mistake Lil Harry Potter Dubas made was to blow their wad on their top 4 forwards with expectations of cap room growth with no contingency. It will be interesting to see if their 3rd line and 4th line weaknesses get exploited. And what an indirect insult Dubas made to Tavares, Marner, Matthews and Reilly  who wear the C and the A letters - you’re incapable of leadership so we need Thornton, Simmonds to provide leadership. Toronto needs to jettison one of those top 4 much like the raptors did with Derozan - they cannot win with them. Toronto’s prospect pool isn’t horrible with Robertson, Sandin, Engvall, Scott but it’s no match for the Habs promise. Unfortunately I see Toronto as contenders in years to come. 
Calgary, I’m not certain they have a window and will be mediocre for the next few years so agree would not want to be in their franchise shoes.  - Giordano is now 37, The Lucic NMC contract is an anchor crying for a buyout next year. Their prospect pool is Pelletier, Zary and Kuznetsov - lot of question marks. This is a team that says reset thru trade or patch in free agency, and hope that Monaghan, Tkachuk, and Gaudreau can jell. 
I don’t disagree with your ranking for this year though. It’s just my opinion that to be a contender you have to have some overachieving  youth in this young mans game. Vancouver, and Edmonton both with cap room and youth for 2021-22 could rise up as contenders. 

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9 hours ago, claremont said:

I don’t know that Toronto as much as I despise them is blowing thru their window. They have a very young explosive core of forwards and not a really aged defence. The mistake Lil Harry Potter Dubas made was to blow their wad on their top 4 forwards with expectations of cap room growth with no contingency. It will be interesting to see if their 3rd line and 4th line weaknesses get exploited. And what an indirect insult Dubas made to Tavares, Marner, Matthews and Reilly  who wear the C and the A letters - you’re incapable of leadership so we need Thornton, Simmonds to provide leadership. Toronto needs to jettison one of those top 4 much like the raptors did with Derozan - they cannot win with them. Toronto’s prospect pool isn’t horrible with Robertson, Sandin, Engvall, Scott but it’s no match for the Habs promise. Unfortunately I see Toronto as contenders in years to come. 
Calgary, I’m not certain they have a window and will be mediocre for the next few years so agree would not want to be in their franchise shoes.  - Giordano is now 37, The Lucic NMC contract is an anchor crying for a buyout next year. Their prospect pool is Pelletier, Zary and Kuznetsov - lot of question marks. This is a team that says reset thru trade or patch in free agency, and hope that Monaghan, Tkachuk, and Gaudreau can jell. 
I don’t disagree with your ranking for this year though. It’s just my opinion that to be a contender you have to have some overachieving  youth in this young mans game. Vancouver, and Edmonton both with cap room and youth for 2021-22 could rise up as contenders. 

I don't like Toronto or Calgary's spots medium to long term, as I wrote in my original rankings of the team's outlooks past this year. Agreed with you that Calgary's prospect pool is depleted after trading away a decent number of picks.

With respect to Toronto, my issue with their window is that they haven't built one where they're a top 5 team in the league. You look at this past season and the next one coming and Tampa clearly sits atop the division. Boston may see a bit of a drop off with the loss of Krug and depending on what happens with Rask and Chara, but they're also right there with Toronto. And Montreal will start to move on Toronto in the next year or two. Washington is better than Toronto. Carolina is better than Toronto. Philly is possibly better than Toronto. Pittsburgh and the Islanders as well. Out West, Vegas, Colorado, Dallas, etc are all better. So if you're Toronto now, despite your stars and all your spending, you're still maybe around the 8th to 12th best team in the league. That doesn't give you fantastic odds at a Cup.

As for the future, they maybe have a couple of regular NHLers in their prospect pool, but it doesn't compare to most other teams' prospect pools. Montreal's is better. Vancouver's is better. Colorado. Ottawa. NY Rangers. NY Islanders. Anaheim. Carolina. And more. All teams that have better prospect pools than Toronto and that are going to gain on the Leafs going forward. So I'll ask the same question of Toronto that I ask of the Habs when building their team? When is the window where the team is a top 5 team in the league? Because they're not right now and I don't see anything in their system that's going to magically make them better in the next few years.

So I'm right with you on what they would need to do: trade one of their top 4 forwards to clear cap space and use that space to address other needs. IMO, Nylander is actually not the guy I would trade if I were them. He's talented and he's on a friendlier deal than the others. Tavares is probably the guy who should go, but he has a NMC. The Muzzin contract also hurts them, and they'll have to figure out where their goaltending situation is going too. Lots of questions about how that team is built despite the strength of their top end. In today's cap world, you need to have cost-controlled ELC or bridge players playing significant roles on your team and the Leafs basically have too many guys on big deals without having the younger players to support them.

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18 hours ago, claremont said:

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/quotes-of-the-day-joel-bouchard/c-319553554

Encouraging comments by Joel Bouchard especially on Juulsen’s health 

  I like what was being said in an article  about Jan Mysak as well ....He could be a steal ( 48th ) because he came late to the OHL and teams didn't have a big sheet on him....5'10" 175 , 18 yr old Czech with very good hands and a team first attitude ....10 goals 15 assists and led all OHL rookies in shorthanded goals with 3 despite in only 22 games ...his frame  might still be growing for all we know 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  I like what was being said in an article  about Jan Mysak as well ....He could be a steal ( 48th ) because he came late to the OHL and teams didn't have a big sheet on him....5'10" 175 , 18 yr old Czech with very good hands and a team first attitude ....10 goals 15 assists and led all OHL rookies in shorthanded goals with 3 despite in only 22 games ...his frame  might still be growing for all we know 

Jan Mysak was one of the younger players in the draft. I like this pick as I believe the kid could have a good ceiling.

It's just absolutely ludicrous that the Ontario Minister of Sport and her henchpersons think they should permit the OHL to play but without body checking for fear of COVID spread. Thankfully the OHL commissioner has some nuts to listen to other science experts and furiously debate the issue. They take body checking out and someone will get hurt by other means.

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't like Toronto or Calgary's spots medium to long term, as I wrote in my original rankings of the team's outlooks past this year. Agreed with you that Calgary's prospect pool is depleted after trading away a decent number of picks.

Next year Toronto has 9 players to negotiate contracts with  and with the exception of G Anderson all are making  $1 mill or less   . The Team prospect ranking has them at 16th which I have a hard time getting my head around . Liljegren picked at 17th in 2007 seems solid enough and Nick Robertson at 53rd seems ok leaving Abruzzes (124th ) Kokkenen ( 84th ) and Bracco (61st ) as their top 5 prospects and somehow a middle NHL ranking . So I agree in order for this team not to rely solely on Tavaras , Matthews and Marner to produce goals up front one of them has to go .Dubas simply spent too much on his top 4 and now the Leafs are caught in the not-quite -good-enough ( certainly defensively ) but not-quite- bad -enough territory that could keep them there for a few years as their stars get older unless something dramatic is done . If the cap stays stagnant it only exacerbates their situation . Next year they have at most 5 draft picks with no 2nd rounder . Taking flyers on Thornton at 41 and Spezza at 37 will only last 1 year and they'll have to be replaced by more  $700,000 players .  

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3 hours ago, arpem-can said:

Next year Toronto has 9 players to negotiate contracts with  and with the exception of G Anderson all are making  $1 mill or less   . The Team prospect ranking has them at 16th which I have a hard time getting my head around . Liljegren picked at 17th in 2007 seems solid enough and Nick Robertson at 53rd seems ok leaving Abruzzes (124th ) Kokkenen ( 84th ) and Bracco (61st ) as their top 5 prospects and somehow a middle NHL ranking . So I agree in order for this team not to rely solely on Tavaras , Matthews and Marner to produce goals up front one of them has to go .Dubas simply spent too much on his top 4 and now the Leafs are caught in the not-quite -good-enough ( certainly defensively ) but not-quite- bad -enough territory that could keep them there for a few years as their stars get older unless something dramatic is done . If the cap stays stagnant it only exacerbates their situation . Next year they have at most 5 draft picks with no 2nd rounder . Taking flyers on Thornton at 41 and Spezza at 37 will only last 1 year and they'll have to be replaced by more  $700,000 players .  

Leaf bashing is one of my favourite sports but as an FYI on their prospects, Bracco was not even given a qualifying offer and signed as a free agent with Carolina. I’ve watched Liljegren play and imo he plain out stinks as overrated, with a few of their other D including Sandin Holl and Dermott passing him on the depth chart. The jury is out on their less than inspiring 2020 draft, so they don’t have much that can crack their lineup other than free agent khl players so their depth is going to be challenged 

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17 hours ago, arpem-can said:

  I like what was being said in an article  about Jan Mysak as well ....He could be a steal ( 48th ) because he came late to the OHL and teams didn't have a big sheet on him....5'10" 175 , 18 yr old Czech with very good hands and a team first attitude ....10 goals 15 assists and led all OHL rookies in shorthanded goals with 3 despite in only 22 games ...his frame  might still be growing for all we know 

 

 

 

 

When the question of his height was asked of Mysak during a live interview, Mysak said that he was 180cm. Whatever that translates into feet.  So, 6 feet.

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47 minutes ago, claremont said:

Propaganda or some elements of truth? - a favourable review here on Mattias Norlinder who leans toward the small size.

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/analysis/2020/11/1/21526444/mattias-norlinder-video-analysis-developing-into-two-way-defenceman-defence-skill-ronnberg-quotes

Its a good read.  Its always tough to know how a player's skills will translate across leagues but I dont think its a stretch to suggest he is probably the DMan prospect in our system with the highest ceiling.  Will he reach it? who knows.  Right now a guy like Romanov (or even Guhle) is probably a 'safer' bet to be an NHL dman, but Norlinder definitely is an intriguing prospect. He has skills, he seems to have good hockey IQ... time will tell... 

 

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10 hours ago, electron58 said:

Interesting.  & I always just used the 30cm=1foot analogy. I guess the more centimeters involved the greater the discrepancy. So I am not 6 feet tall, afterall.

I think you're thinking of temperature. 

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13 hours ago, CzechHab said:

I don't know where to put it. Myšák got his first point (A) in his first game for the senior Czech team. A win against Sweden 3:1 in Karjala Cup (Finland).

Looks good to me. Not sure what warrants a new thread, so Thanks for the info.  Expecting big things from Jan.  Hopefully, he pans out better than Reway.  What a disappointment his situation turned out to be.

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