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2020-21 State Of The Habs


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44 minutes ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

Fun Fact:

Joel Armia has 5 goals in this years playoffs. He makes 2.6 million per year.

Mitch Marner has 5 playoff goals throughout a total of 32 playoff games. He makes 10.6 million per year.

I wonder if Armia's agent is gonna use this as a comparable during free agent negotiations! :lol:

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3 hours ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

Fun Fact:

Joel Armia has 5 goals in this years playoffs. He makes 2.6 million per year.

Mitch Marner has 5 playoff goals throughout a total of 32 playoff games. He makes 10.6 million per year.

As MB once famously said "some players get you to the playoffs, some get you through them..."   I think that over time Marner will probably have himself some great postseasons (hopefully none in TO :P) but right now he's definitely built more for the regular season. 

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3 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

MB nominated for General Manager of the year . Good luck

im actually kind of surprised tbh.   

I mean dont get me wrong, he put a plan in place its done well and the team is only 3 wins away from the SCF  - thats a successful season for a GM!  But - the award is voted on before the playoffs.  At the time they voted we were just barely squeaking into the post season in one of the weaker divisions... 

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39 minutes ago, maas_art said:

im actually kind of surprised tbh.   

I mean dont get me wrong, he put a plan in place its done well and the team is only 3 wins away from the SCF  - thats a successful season for a GM!  But - the award is voted on before the playoffs.  At the time they voted we were just barely squeaking into the post season in one of the weaker divisions... 

I find the nomination surpriseing too - guess they looked at year over year improvement. Molson is virtually certain to give MB a contract extension- he has delivered on the promise and has steadfastly stood by and believed I his players. I can only hope the extensors for 2 years after tie one. The team may be hard pressed to make the playoffs next year in a tougher  division plus I have a hard time thinking this team as is can maintain an upward trajectory. that’s why I think only 2 years plus next year is warranted 

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58 minutes ago, maas_art said:

im actually kind of surprised tbh.   

I mean dont get me wrong, he put a plan in place its done well and the team is only 3 wins away from the SCF  - thats a successful season for a GM!  But - the award is voted on before the playoffs.  At the time they voted we were just barely squeaking into the post season in one of the weaker divisions... 

Ah, i see how that they voted for this award just last week.  "Voting among GMs, league executives, and media members was conducted after the second round of the playoffs, according to Sportsnet's Chris Johnston."   That makes a lot more sense with the Habs & Isles' runs.

Its odd to have them voting during the playoffs but then I guess this has been a very odd year... 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

im actually kind of surprised tbh.   

I mean dont get me wrong, he put a plan in place its done well and the team is only 3 wins away from the SCF  - thats a successful season for a GM!  But - the award is voted on before the playoffs.  At the time they voted we were just barely squeaking into the post season in one of the weaker divisions... 

I'd say people really liked some of the moves he made though. Like the trade to acquire Anderson, signing Toffoli, bringing in Edmundson and Allen.

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1 minute ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'd say people really liked some of the moves he made though. Like the trade to acquire Anderson, signing Toffoli, bringing in Edmundson and Allen.

Yeah I have mixed views on MB some of his moves just seem so backwards then he comes out and really blows me away! this year he went out and got Tofu Perry Edmunsdon and Allen all great moves! but then Merrill ? odd choice! he picked up Stall which i thought was dumb but in the playoffs him and Perry mixed with Armia make a really big hard hitting line that gets into the O zone and can stay there! they also have been a good force in the room with all the years they have the kids seem to listen to them which is good for the development of KK and Zuke. some of his earlier moves were good too getting Zuke was great as I think the kid is going to be a star player for many years! but I hated the trade for Drouin I still do imagine this team with Sergachev right now! we don't have Drouin anyways puck moving D solved...... like most GM's he makes good and bad moves but I will give him credit for what he did this year this team is a good playoff team we will need to make moves in the off season for sure as we have two offensive forwards in Tater and Drouin not even playing right now to the tune of over 10 million! we could really be something with a good Dman and a deal like the Tofu one for some more offence!

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5 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yeah I have mixed views on MB some of his moves just seem so backwards then he comes out and really blows me away! this year he went out and got Tofu Perry Edmunsdon and Allen all great moves! but then Merrill ? odd choice! he picked up Stall which i thought was dumb but in the playoffs him and Perry mixed with Armia make a really big hard hitting line that gets into the O zone and can stay there! they also have been a good force in the room with all the years they have the kids seem to listen to them which is good for the development of KK and Zuke. some of his earlier moves were good too getting Zuke was great as I think the kid is going to be a star player for many years! but I hated the trade for Drouin I still do imagine this team with Sergachev right now! we don't have Drouin anyways puck moving D solved...... like most GM's he makes good and bad moves but I will give him credit for what he did this year this team is a good playoff team we will need to make moves in the off season for sure as we have two offensive forwards in Tater and Drouin not even playing right now to the tune of over 10 million! we could really be something with a good Dman and a deal like the Tofu one for some more offence!

After seeing the big deal that was made earlier this year when we played our first game in forever without a French Canadian player, I understand the Drouin trade. I don't like it or agree with it but I understand it. I think that the unfortunate reality of this team is that it is handcuffed by politics. I would imagine there would be backlash in certain circles if word got out that he could have had Drouin and didn't make a trade for him. Again, I don't agree with it but I think it is the sad reality.

 

On another note, he has made some mistakes, like you said. Some bigger than others. But what GM doesn't? I think most of those big mistakes were in his earlier years with the team. Looking back I think hiring MT as head coach was perhaps his greatest mistake. 

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Byron's been good lately and is worth more than a bag of pucks, but not the 3.5m he gets.  He did get waived repeatedly this year after all with no interest from other teams.  He's great on breakaways but can go long stretches not doing much.  He's starting to skate a little slower than I remember from a few years back, don't know what kind of role he can play as he ages

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9 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

Armia and Byron are proven clutch players in playoffs. I laugh in the faces of those who're constantly proposing to let them go, waive them or trade them for a bag of pucks.

So do you pay big money for playoff performers when a team may not get you into the playoffs ( a waste )?  Ideally you want players that contribute during the season AND can rise up in the playoffs. Marner is a prime example of big money for a playoff dud  - it's just not his game when his space is constrained and the hitting by the big boys occurs, so a Marner just helps you get into the playoffs - I would not pay big money for that. When Marner played for the London Knights - there was ample evidence of that. When he played here, I always thought Patches was terrible when games really counted. Seems like Tatar is fitting into that mold. IMO Josh Anderson has just been unlucky - he's still crashing the boards, getting some shots and not hurting the team. 

Conversely, Edmundson seems to be the type of player that is so-so in the regular season (despite a nice +- stat), but elevates his game in the playoffs. We pay reasonable money (factoring in Quebec taxes vs other comparables) for his contract and overlap to a player like Chiarot - neither are puck moving d-men but Chiarot has also elevated his game. Even Staal has surprised me. In these cases, we are not overpaying regular season for potential playoff success. 

You can laugh all you want but it's a value for money equation game, and you're not going to sign everyone that you fall in love with. With Armia averaging 15 goals, 30 point seasons despite that he has some ability to play the LW side, I question his term and value if it is north of $3.5 million. IMO Injury Prone Byron is not good value at $3.4M for regular season or his recent playoff run - 2 goals 1 assist, penalty killing etc. pffft...., but trading in the off season he might not fetch much value. 

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4 hours ago, claremont said:

So do you pay big money for playoff performers when a team may not get you into the playoffs ( a waste )?  Ideally you want players that contribute during the season AND can rise up in the playoffs. Marner is a prime example of big money for a playoff dud  - it's just not his game when his space is constrained and the hitting by the big boys occurs, so a Marner just helps you get into the playoffs - I would not pay big money for that. When Marner played for the London Knights - there was ample evidence of that. When he played here, I always thought Patches was terrible when games really counted. Seems like Tatar is fitting into that mold. IMO Josh Anderson has just been unlucky - he's still crashing the boards, getting some shots and not hurting the team. 

Conversely, Edmundson seems to be the type of player that is so-so in the regular season (despite a nice +- stat), but elevates his game in the playoffs. We pay reasonable money (factoring in Quebec taxes vs other comparables) for his contract and overlap to a player like Chiarot - neither are puck moving d-men but Chiarot has also elevated his game. Even Staal has surprised me. In these cases, we are not overpaying regular season for potential playoff success. 

You can laugh all you want but it's a value for money equation game, and you're not going to sign everyone that you fall in love with. With Armia averaging 15 goals, 30 point seasons despite that he has some ability to play the LW side, I question his term and value if it is north of $3.5 million. IMO Injury Prone Byron is not good value at $3.4M for regular season or his recent playoff run - 2 goals 1 assist, penalty killing etc. pffft...., but trading in the off season he might not fetch much value. 

By those standards isn't McDavid way overpaid? Great seasons but when the going gets tough and power plays are less? I personally look at players more on a 5 on 5 basis because players that have inflated points because of a higher percentage of pp points I don't think are as use full of players. I'll take the great 200' player over the pure goal scorer that can't kill penalties and you don't want on the ice late protecting a lead or have a hard time when the games get tight. That's why teams like Vegas are playoff tough teams because they aren't built around one or two elite players, which are exiting to watch during the season but are canceled out once tings get tough.

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I would have no issues letting Byron go, I think Evans can replace him nicely.  Armia is another matter entirely, yes he is streaky but he plays a well rounded game take away the cheap concussion injury and he would have had another year very similar to his last year.  I would have zero issues resigning him, can play third or 4th line and be effective on both

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6 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

I would have no issues letting Byron go, I think Evans can replace him nicely.  Armia is another matter entirely, yes he is streaky but he plays a well rounded game take away the cheap concussion injury and he would have had another year very similar to his last year.  I would have zero issues resigning him, can play third or 4th line and be effective on both

I really like Armia's game he can play a strong board game and he does have some good hands. If the choice was Armia or Byron I would let Byron go though I do like him asa player.

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20 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

I would have no issues letting Byron go, I think Evans can replace him nicely.  Armia is another matter entirely, yes he is streaky but he plays a well rounded game take away the cheap concussion injury and he would have had another year very similar to his last year.  I would have zero issues resigning him, can play third or 4th line and be effective on both

 

12 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I really like Armia's game he can play a strong board game and he does have some good hands. If the choice was Armia or Byron I would let Byron go though I do like him asa player.

Agree. There's almost no one (merrill?) I would say "id rather not have him on my roster" although there are certainly guys who maybe cost more than what they are able to give at this stage.   When we dont need the $$ thats fine but as we start getting tigher to the cap we're going to have to make decisions. Assuming Armia isnt too expensive id love to have him back next year. 

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15 hours ago, claremont said:

With Armia averaging 15 goals, 30 point seasons despite that he has some ability to play the LW side, I question his term and value if it is north of $3.5 million. IMO Injury Prone Byron is not good value at $3.4M for regular season or his recent playoff run - 2 goals 1 assist, penalty killing etc. pffft...., but trading in the off season he might not fetch much value. 

So are Byron's game winning playoff moments worth $3.4 million? His GWG won Game 1 of Toronto series and Game 2 of Vegas series. His GWP won Game 3 of Vegas series. I'm quite sure MB and a larger sample of Habs fans are willing to pay the price.

As for Armia, how many other Habs players can single-handedly out-muscle big opponents and blow past them? I can only think of Anderson. Is he worth $3.5 million for providing critical yet unexpected playoff goals?

That's why it's important to balance regular season contributors and playoff warriors in the roster. Seldom does both types reside in one body. During the regular season, lean heavily on guys like Gallagher, Tatar and Danault to get you to the playoffs. Once playoffs get underway, never abandon your clutch performers like Suzuki, Caulfield, Byron and Armia. 

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1 minute ago, PuckPundit said:

So are Byron's game winning playoff moments worth $3.4 million? His GWG won Game 1 of Toronto series and Game 2 of Vegas series. His GWP won Game 3 of Vegas series. I'm quite sure MB and a larger sample of Habs fans are willing to pay the price.

As for Armia, how many other Habs players can single-handedly out-muscle big opponents and blow past them? I can only think of Anderson. Is he worth $3.5 million for providing critical yet unexpected playoff goals?

That's why it's important to balance regular season contributors and playoff warriors in the roster. Seldom does both types reside in one body. During the regular season, lean heavily on guys like Gallagher, Tatar and Danault to get you to the playoffs. Once playoffs get underway, never abandon your clutch performers like Suzuki, Caulfield, Byron and Armia. 

are you trying to jinx us? 

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7 minutes ago, habsisme said:

are you trying to jinx us? 

No, I'm trying to raise appreciation for proven playoff warriors. Treasure them as long as they continue to deliver during playoffs.

Don't do stupid things like trying to waive or expose them to expansion draft, and regret later in the playoffs when regular season pointers fail to show up. Or worse, have these playoff warriors score against you for their new teams in the playoffs.

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31 minutes ago, PuckPundit said:

No, I'm trying to raise appreciation for proven playoff warriors. Treasure them as long as they continue to deliver during playoffs.

Don't do stupid things like trying to waive or expose them to expansion draft, and regret later in the playoffs when regular season pointers fail to show up. Or worse, have these playoff warriors score against you for their new teams in the playoffs.

Same with what Danault has done all playoffs make him worth resigning.

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2 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

No, I'm trying to raise appreciation for proven playoff warriors. Treasure them as long as they continue to deliver during playoffs.

Don't do stupid things like trying to waive or expose them to expansion draft, and regret later in the playoffs when regular season pointers fail to show up. Or worse, have these playoff warriors score against you for their new teams in the playoffs.

We have to be realistic here: For most part that was not good hockey last night. If it wasnt for a "lolfleury" moment we might be down 1:2. 

In my opinion we are doomed to win now. This run probably means that there wont be any changes made to the GM and even the coaching position. So we better get something out of it to endure the next few years.

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This is the closest the Habs have been to the Cup since 1993. They've made the ECF twice since then. In 2010, they lost 4-1 to the Flyers. In 2014, they lost 4-2 to the Rangers, but they were down in that series 2-0 and 3-1 and we lost Price at the start of the series due to Kreider's antics. This is the first time the Habs have led in the 3rd round or later since the Cup win.

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