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2020-21 If I Were GM


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15 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

As the playoffs go on, I really do wish we could resign Danault to a reasonable contract long-term. I just don't see where we will get the money. He's worth something. What that something is? I don't know. He's never gonna score a lot, but he's been so excellent at shutting down opposing teams' top lines in the post-season. Someone is going to pay him loads in free agency. I don't know if Montreal can afford to bring him back with Suzuki and Kotkaniemi coming along. Maybe Evans is good enough to step into a third line center role next season?

Danault is a star in his own mind and wants to be paid as one, he seems to think he will get paid as a top line center.  I think this is a case of just letting him go, certainly not worth the price he seems to have set for himself, and really I think Evans can slide right into his spot and fill in nicely with more offensive skills.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

As the playoffs go on, I really do wish we could resign Danault to a reasonable contract long-term. I just don't see where we will get the money. He's worth something. What that something is? I don't know. He's never gonna score a lot, but he's been so excellent at shutting down opposing teams' top lines in the post-season. Someone is going to pay him loads in free agency. I don't know if Montreal can afford to bring him back with Suzuki and Kotkaniemi coming along. Maybe Evans is good enough to step into a third line center role next season?

It’s a lot of risk to take down the middle with KK Suzuki evans & Poehling- if we can’t sign Danault for reasonable term and value then I suspect we need some additional veteran presence via trade etc I’m not so sure Danault is accepting a potential 3rd line or 2nd line role 

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16 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Look at the trail of teams Hall has been on ... we don't need Hall, he's a cancer

He does have a record for getting his teams the 1st overall pick though! I think its something like 6 teams he's been on have been which is like 50% of his seasons. lol.

15 hours ago, dreegking said:

I heard from someone  quasi in the know that Hall will make his way to The Flames. 

Yeah thats definitely a strong possibility. He's from Calgary and was apparently a flames fan as a kid.

 

2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

As the playoffs go on, I really do wish we could resign Danault to a reasonable contract long-term. I just don't see where we will get the money. He's worth something. What that something is? I don't know. He's never gonna score a lot, but he's been so excellent at shutting down opposing teams' top lines in the post-season. Someone is going to pay him loads in free agency. I don't know if Montreal can afford to bring him back with Suzuki and Kotkaniemi coming along. Maybe Evans is good enough to step into a third line center role next season?

For sure. At $4m Id sign him for 5 more years but if he wants what i think he wants...tough one.  There's no question we'll be a worse team next year without him (I dont see MB replacing him fully) but there are probably some band-aid solutions that could work.  The next 2 years would likely be tough though. Im pretty sure MB resigns him, which unfortunately probably means overpayment. 

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2 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

Danault is a star in his own mind and wants to be paid as one, he seems to think he will get paid as a top line center.  I think this is a case of just letting him go, certainly not worth the price he seems to have set for himself, and really I think Evans can slide right into his spot and fill in nicely with more offensive skills.

Evans and Danault over all would be an even swap I think.   We'd take a bit of a hit defensively, but Evans has more speed and maybe a bit more offense.  Hard to tell unless we saw Evans long term try to fill those boots.

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20 hours ago, claremont said:

There’s enough leadership on the Habs such that we don’t need a Spezza. The leafs are woefully weak on leadership and heart from any of their core. Additions of Thornton, Simmonds, Bogosian, Foligno and Spezza made by little Harry Potter who recognized the inability of Tavares Matthews etc. to set good examples in the room and on ice, failed. Spezza hasn’t won much at all - not required here. 

Who said acquiring Spezza was for his leadership ability? Spezza is valued for his critical ability to still score goals at the playoff level even at this stage of his career.  That's was what I was looking at.  

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7 minutes ago, PuckPundit said:

Who said acquiring Spezza was for his leadership ability? Spezza is valued for his critical ability to still score goals at the playoff level even at this stage of his career.  That's was what I was looking at.  

He scored 3 goals in 7 games this year and while I agree he was the best of their vets, thats a bit of an outlier, certainly lately.

The 2 playoff seasons before, in 16 games he scored  3 goals (5 pts total).  At 38 years old I wouldnt expect the production to get better. 

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2 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

Who said acquiring Spezza was for his leadership ability? Spezza is valued for his critical ability to still score goals at the playoff level even at this stage of his career.  That's was what I was looking at.  

In an 18 year career his team has won 5 playoff series - I’d hardly call that critical ability to score goals at the playoff level - his days are gone and this is a game for the younger crowd now. 

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3 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

Who said acquiring Spezza was for his leadership ability? Spezza is valued for his critical ability to still score goals at the playoff level even at this stage of his career.  That's was what I was looking at.  

If you discount his first 2 years with Ottawa ... since 2007/2008 Spezza has appeared in 56 games and scored 15g ... that's 2g per 7gp ... not exactly a "critical ability to score goals in the playoffs"

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10 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

As the playoffs go on, I really do wish we could resign Danault to a reasonable contract long-term. I just don't see where we will get the money. He's worth something. What that something is? I don't know. He's never gonna score a lot, but he's been so excellent at shutting down opposing teams' top lines in the post-season. Someone is going to pay him loads in free agency. I don't know if Montreal can afford to bring him back with Suzuki and Kotkaniemi coming along. Maybe Evans is good enough to step into a third line center role next season?

Danault definitely has value, but there's a maximum you can pay a player like that before his cap hit outweighs that value. Scott Gomez, Shea Weber, Carey Price... all guys who had/have value but aren't worth the contracts they're on. I don't think we can afford to give Danault 6M when he's playing what's essentially a 3rd-line center role. Yes, he's shutting down the opposition's top lines, but he's also not scoring anything himself. If a guy allows the other team's top line to score 5 goals in 10 games but his line only gets 2 themselves, that's not really any different than a guy who allows the other team's line to score 10 goals in 10 games and gets 7 for his own line. You may as well choose the cheaper player in that case.

I'm all for re-signing Danault if he accepts reasonable value and accepts that he's one of three top 9 centers and not the go-to guy. He's playing the Guy Carbonneau role on this team if he stays. So 5M or even 5.5M for 4 years is reasonable. Once you start to climb past that, it makes you wonder whether you can get more from an Evans or a Poehling or so on. Danault himself got the job when the team dealt Eller, and he was unproven himself when the team made that switch. I think Evans has the ability to be a good two-way center himself, although the caveat is that it means we're using three younger centers in our top 9. Prior to the playoffs, that could have been a big issue, but I'd argue that Suzuki and Evans and Kotkaniemi have all shown they can step up in big games, so I'd actually wonder if they've made Danault more expendable.

The other thing to factor in is that the Danault line, while strong defensively whether they had Lehkonen or Evans there, was not very strong at scoring since they took Tatar off the trio. It also wasn't very strong at scoring when Gallagher was out. So how much of that line being a strong two-way trio was the combination of the three guys together? If Tatar isn't back, who's playing there that doesn't leave too much of a drop-off in defence while still providing enough offence? With Lehkonen, the line hasn't produced. Hard to see Drouin being able to take on the other team's toughest lines in terms of the defensive responsibility. Hard to see wasting Caufield's talent on a defensive line. So who else plays on the LW long-term if not Tatar?

Ultimately, I would be interested in bringing Danault back but I think we shouldn't force ourselves to meet his cap demands and there's a contingency plan there to use Evans and Poehling in bigger roles and then spend the savings trying to upgrade LW and D.

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7 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

Who said acquiring Spezza was for his leadership ability? Spezza is valued for his critical ability to still score goals at the playoff level even at this stage of his career.  That's was what I was looking at.  

Spezza was re-signed because he came cheap.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Danault definitely has value, but there's a maximum you can pay a player like that before his cap hit outweighs that value. Scott Gomez, Shea Weber, Carey Price... all guys who had/have value but aren't worth the contracts they're on. I don't think we can afford to give Danault 6M when he's playing what's essentially a 3rd-line center role. Yes, he's shutting down the opposition's top lines, but he's also not scoring anything himself. If a guy allows the other team's top line to score 5 goals in 10 games but his line only gets 2 themselves, that's not really any different than a guy who allows the other team's line to score 10 goals in 10 games and gets 7 for his own line. You may as well choose the cheaper player in that case.

I'm all for re-signing Danault if he accepts reasonable value and accepts that he's one of three top 9 centers and not the go-to guy. He's playing the Guy Carbonneau role on this team if he stays. So 5M or even 5.5M for 4 years is reasonable. Once you start to climb past that, it makes you wonder whether you can get more from an Evans or a Poehling or so on. Danault himself got the job when the team dealt Eller, and he was unproven himself when the team made that switch. I think Evans has the ability to be a good two-way center himself, although the caveat is that it means we're using three younger centers in our top 9. Prior to the playoffs, that could have been a big issue, but I'd argue that Suzuki and Evans and Kotkaniemi have all shown they can step up in big games, so I'd actually wonder if they've made Danault more expendable.

The other thing to factor in is that the Danault line, while strong defensively whether they had Lehkonen or Evans there, was not very strong at scoring since they took Tatar off the trio. It also wasn't very strong at scoring when Gallagher was out. So how much of that line being a strong two-way trio was the combination of the three guys together? If Tatar isn't back, who's playing there that doesn't leave too much of a drop-off in defence while still providing enough offence? With Lehkonen, the line hasn't produced. Hard to see Drouin being able to take on the other team's toughest lines in terms of the defensive responsibility. Hard to see wasting Caufield's talent on a defensive line. So who else plays on the LW long-term if not Tatar?

Ultimately, I would be interested in bringing Danault back but I think we shouldn't force ourselves to meet his cap demands and there's a contingency plan there to use Evans and Poehling in bigger roles and then spend the savings trying to upgrade LW and D.

100% agree on all points here. if Dano scored more or was a real faceoff ace or even a bit quicker i would be more inclined to pay what it takes but I see him as replaceable.

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12 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Danault definitely has value, but there's a maximum you can pay a player like that before his cap hit outweighs that value. Scott Gomez, Shea Weber, Carey Price... all guys who had/have value but aren't worth the contracts they're on. I don't think we can afford to give Danault 6M when he's playing what's essentially a 3rd-line center role. Yes, he's shutting down the opposition's top lines, but he's also not scoring anything himself. If a guy allows the other team's top line to score 5 goals in 10 games but his line only gets 2 themselves, that's not really any different than a guy who allows the other team's line to score 10 goals in 10 games and gets 7 for his own line. You may as well choose the cheaper player in that case.

I'm all for re-signing Danault if he accepts reasonable value and accepts that he's one of three top 9 centers and not the go-to guy. He's playing the Guy Carbonneau role on this team if he stays. So 5M or even 5.5M for 4 years is reasonable. Once you start to climb past that, it makes you wonder whether you can get more from an Evans or a Poehling or so on. Danault himself got the job when the team dealt Eller, and he was unproven himself when the team made that switch. I think Evans has the ability to be a good two-way center himself, although the caveat is that it means we're using three younger centers in our top 9. Prior to the playoffs, that could have been a big issue, but I'd argue that Suzuki and Evans and Kotkaniemi have all shown they can step up in big games, so I'd actually wonder if they've made Danault more expendable.

The other thing to factor in is that the Danault line, while strong defensively whether they had Lehkonen or Evans there, was not very strong at scoring since they took Tatar off the trio. It also wasn't very strong at scoring when Gallagher was out. So how much of that line being a strong two-way trio was the combination of the three guys together? If Tatar isn't back, who's playing there that doesn't leave too much of a drop-off in defence while still providing enough offence? With Lehkonen, the line hasn't produced. Hard to see Drouin being able to take on the other team's toughest lines in terms of the defensive responsibility. Hard to see wasting Caufield's talent on a defensive line. So who else plays on the LW long-term if not Tatar?

Ultimately, I would be interested in bringing Danault back but I think we shouldn't force ourselves to meet his cap demands and there's a contingency plan there to use Evans and Poehling in bigger roles and then spend the savings trying to upgrade LW and D.

You’re right - Danault is an Enigma. The term/value equation and his acceptance of a 2C/3C role is key. If he isn’t resigned, I would differ from you slightly on where to spend the savings. We would need another reasonably strong Centre as asking Suzuki, KK, Evans, Poehling with perhaps occasional support from a Byron (assumed not claimed) is asking a lot without much injury depth there. A Weal type (expired) or old Spezza doesn’t cut it. . Then I concur with you on LW upgrades (Tatar gone, Drouin large ?) then a puck moving LHD. 

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On 6/21/2021 at 8:00 PM, HabsAlways said:

Evans and Danault over all would be an even swap I think.   We'd take a bit of a hit defensively, but Evans has more speed and maybe a bit more offense.  Hard to tell unless we saw Evans long term try to fill those boots.

Danault has an incredible stride and his speed is vastly underrated. Don’t be so sure. 
 

evans has much more to learn to be s Danault, not to mention a size issue. 

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Danault has an incredible stride and his speed is vastly underrated. Don’t be so sure. 
 

evans has much more to learn to be s Danault, not to mention a size issue. 
 

danault is easily a 7 million dollar player. He virtually eliminates and outplays 10 million dollar players nightly. What they gather on the pp, he does with the pk. Maybe slightly less on ST comparatively. 
 

anyone who thinks he’s a 5 to 5.5 million player is insane. Just being honest. 

there’s a very very short list of Centre’s that eliminate teams top centres or outplay another teams top Centre nightly while 5 on 5. Crosby and a few others come to mind. It’s really that simple. Are you folks aware just how many average 5 million dollar players there are in the league? 

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RNH has re-signed for 8 years and about 5M AAV. For the first 5 years of the deal, he'll make a bit under 27M (or AAV of 5.3M). Comparing him to Danault, they're both about the same age, both play center, and both slotted behind other more effective centers going forward... Danault is a better defensive forward but RNH is superior offensively and has more impressive production. Ultimately, they were two of the better centers available on the UFA market and are likely going to be priced around the same value.

So I think that kind of sets the market for Danault. 5 years at 5.25M or 7 years at 5M would be a reasonable ask for him. I'm not sure he's quite worth that as he moves into his 30's but I think he'll get that from someone else if we let him walk.

Part of me also wonders if we have a contract already ironed out with Danault. It was rumored that MB tried to address this with him before the season and that he turned down an offer. But we really haven't heard anything more despite Petry and Gallagher being re-signed. You have to figure MB wants to keep him, given our organization's poor center depth. MB can use Evans' development as leverage against Danault but I think both sides likely want to forge an extension. So I wonder if maybe something has been agreed upon verbally, and the team is waiting for after the ED to finalize it.

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The decision whether to re-sign Danault or not at his asking price hinges on whether the Habs are going to adopt the defensive trap style as their identify going forward, even in the regular season.

Man, I've always looked forward to the Habs transforming into a run-and-gun style team with supporting PMD.  But I guess the defensive style is too much ingrained into the Canadiens DNA.

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7 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

The decision whether to re-sign Danault or not at his asking price hinges on whether the Habs are going to adopt the defensive trap style as their identify going forward, even in the regular season.

Man, I've always looked forward to the Habs transforming into a run-and-gun style team with supporting PMD.  But I guess the defensive style is too much ingrained into the Canadiens DNA.

They do not do the defensive trap. They use traps. All teams do. But it’s based upon a forecheck. Much different than the one you mentioned. 
 

Furthermore, are you insinuate that Danualt only has value as trapping team centre? He’s a complete player. Can do it all. Yea just dumb good snd has great value on any team. Simple as that. 

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17 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

RNH has re-signed for 8 years and about 5M AAV. For the first 5 years of the deal, he'll make a bit under 27M (or AAV of 5.3M). Comparing him to Danault, they're both about the same age, both play center, and both slotted behind other more effective centers going forward... Danault is a better defensive forward but RNH is superior offensively and has more impressive production. Ultimately, they were two of the better centers available on the UFA market and are likely going to be priced around the same value.

So I think that kind of sets the market for Danault. 5 years at 5.25M or 7 years at 5M would be a reasonable ask for him. I'm not sure he's quite worth that as he moves into his 30's but I think he'll get that from someone else if we let him walk.

Part of me also wonders if we have a contract already ironed out with Danault. It was rumored that MB tried to address this with him before the season and that he turned down an offer. But we really haven't heard anything more despite Petry and Gallagher being re-signed. You have to figure MB wants to keep him, given our organization's poor center depth. MB can use Evans' development as leverage against Danault but I think both sides likely want to forge an extension. So I wonder if maybe something has been agreed upon verbally, and the team is waiting for after the ED to finalize it.

 

6 hours ago, dreegking said:

They do not do the defensive trap. They use traps. All teams do. But it’s based upon a forecheck. Much different than the one you mentioned. 
Furthermore, are you insinuate that Danualt only has value as trapping team centre?

He’s a complete player. Can do it all. Yea just dumb good snd has great value on any team. Simple as that. 

Analysis suggests offering long term to players at the age of 28-29 does not bode well for team value. I don't like Danault at any term beyond 5 years. If he can get 7-8 years like an RNH - adios amigo, as I think we can backfill what looks like a 2C/3C role with a trade as we likely overpay in F/A based on this year's crop. I admire Danault's contributions - It's just the business value / cap decision for me. We went 6 years on heart and soul Gallagher and 6 years on Anderson to identify a core, and both those players play a physical style susceptible to injuries. I'm not convinced Danault should be part of that 6 year core.  

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2 hours ago, claremont said:

 

Analysis suggests offering long term to players at the age of 28-29 does not bode well for team value. I don't like Danault at any term beyond 5 years. If he can get 7-8 years like an RNH - adios amigo, as I think we can backfill what looks like a 2C/3C role with a trade as we likely overpay in F/A based on this year's crop. I admire Danault's contributions - It's just the business value / cap decision for me. We went 6 years on heart and soul Gallagher and 6 years on Anderson to identify a core, and both those players play a physical style susceptible to injuries. I'm not convinced Danault should be part of that 6 year core.  

I am with this also. I love what Danualt has done this playoffs. But for me it ends there. KK RFA this Year and Nick next season. I would be looking at long term deal for both ASAP, 7 years 5 to 5.5 for KK and and 7rs 6 to 6.5 for Suzuki. Buy low and fingers crossed - you get Toffli type return   for at least 4, 5, 6 or even 7 yrs.  If you give them a few more years to develop and they likely will your paying them  in the range of 8 and 10 range. I would like to add a nice hard nosed LF forward to play with Nick and Caufield. Tkachuk Calgary. Landeskog - Colorado type player

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I think comparables for Danault were established with the Nugent-Hopkins deal yesterday and the current market appears to favour the GMS. Should be within a 0.5 mill of Nige when done. The fact we're in the cup should help Bergy too as Danault probably would prefer to play for a winner in his home town.

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IMO we offer Dano a 6 year deal. If he wants more he needs to take less money to make it work. At the same time i would have concerns with depending on Evans as one of my four centers with this concussion issue he has. He could be just another away from the end of his career. 

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I'll go after Brandon Saad to strengthen the left wing.

I hope MB starts raiding Columbus' free agents or available ex-Columbus alumni.  For some reason, Columbus had many big, tough and skilled players in different positions.  It's just their inconsistency which let them down every season.

But the priority is strengthen the defence, especially on the left.  If Ben Chiarot is the #1 LD, that's just so laughable.

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Hindsight is 20-20, but the most recent Danault contract (three years, AAV 3.083 million)... Well, I wish we would've made it longer than three years. Allowing him to be an unrestricted free agent at 28 seems a bad mistake from Bergevin. You put yourself in a position to overpay as the player enters their early/mid 30s. Just imagine if that deal had been for four or five years. Having Danault around at a similar cost for a few more years would be awesome. We have about $10 million in cap space to make next season work. Some important orders of business.

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6 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Hindsight is 20-20, but the most recent Danault contract (three years, AAV 3.083 million)... Well, I wish we would've made it longer than three years. Allowing him to be an unrestricted free agent at 28 seems a bad mistake from Bergevin. You put yourself in a position to overpay as the player enters their early/mid 30s. Just imagine if that deal had been for four or five years. Having Danault around at a similar cost for a few more years would be awesome. We have about $10 million in cap space to make next season work. Some important orders of business.

Its entirely possible that 3 years is all that Danault would have taken.  Perhaps he said "if you want me for 5 or more, i want $5m" which would have been tough at that stage. 

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16 hours ago, maas_art said:

Its entirely possible that 3 years is all that Danault would have taken.  Perhaps he said "if you want me for 5 or more, i want $5m" which would have been tough at that stage. 

Very true. I thought about that as well. I'm sure his agent knows what's up.

Just imagine, like, a four or five year deal for $4 million. That would've been nice. But yeah... Hindsight. Would love him back, but I just don't know if we'll be able to make it work.

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