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POLL: Has MB done enough?

Has he done enough?   29 members have voted

  1. 1. Has MB done enough to get us into the playoffs and contend?

    • Yes
    • We're somewhat improved but far from contending
    • Not yet. Needs to move money around for more upgrades
    • Failed miserably.
    • Undecided

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28 posts in this topic

Now that we are pretty much at our Cap limit, do you feel that MB has done enough?

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i'm ok with all the moves so far except for the Anderson contract

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Id actually add another choice between 1 and 2.  I dont think its a 'slam dunk' because defense is still a big concern, but i do think that MB has made some strong moves and we should be at least a fringe contender.  

I think we should easily make the playoffs with this roster. I think all the moves will pay dividends except Edmundson. I dont think he'll be a negative but I have a feeling he'll be our 3rd pairing D by the end of the year, which isnt the worst thing in the world but when you consider he makes $3.5m vs. Kulak (who i think is better) at $1.8m thats not great cap management.

Im quite excited about our forward group. I think they will do very well. 

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I liked the backup move and think Allan was one of the better choices for that position. I know a lot of goaltenders went cheaper but they were also looking for starter spots and term. The one year commitment suits me just fine.I found the Edmundson signing a bit of a sideward move and not really an upgrade from what i've read about him. I look at it as a bit of insurance if Romanov flops. Anderson was a good pickup but i absolutely hate the term and i also think we overpaid for a questionable asset. Could end up being a bargain, but the verdict is still out there. Toffoli was probably our best pick up at reasonable term and salary and gives us the more secure shot at replacing Domi's production,,, meaning anything Anderson gives us is bonus.

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This roster is easily better than the one we had last year. Anderson fills more of a need than Domi. Toffoli is a nice add. Allen solves a problem MB has failed to address for years and hopefully improves Carey's performance as well. And Romanov could be a surprise boost, in addition to Suzuki and Kotkaniemi potentially progressing and maybe even Ylonen/Brook/FleuryJuulsen/Poehling/Evans giving us something.

I think we'll have good odds of making the playoffs, barring injuries or things you can't control like COVID outbreaks and weird scheduling. We should be better than Ottawa and Buffalo, even though those teams will be improved, we should be way better than Detroit (and hopefully beat them this year) and we should be better than Florida I hope. I think we'll even be in the realm of catching Boston and Toronto and who knows, maybe Tampa will have some fatigue from the long Cup run and some issues related to gutting some of their roster. We're right there.

That said, I still don't think we're a top 5 team in the league. We haven't addressed the LHD position to any significant degree. Edmundson is a downgrade on Kulak if he takes his playing time in the top 4. Chiarot is the same. And Romanov is a question mark and hardly a savior. I also still worry about Weber and Petry's ability to play a combined 45-48 minutes a night. I don't think that can hold up for a season. One of them gets injured and the rest of the D is a disaster.

So I really like our forward depth and our goaltending right now, but the weakest link last year was our D corps and that might actually end up being just as bad or worse this year if Chiarot/Edmundson are playing 45 minutes a night combined. Romanov is the one wildcard who can maybe change that, but if he's not top 4 ready, that D leaves us out of true contender status for me.

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53 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Id actually add another choice between 1 and 2.  I dont think its a 'slam dunk' because defense is still a big concern, but i do think that MB has made some strong moves and we should be at least a fringe contender.  

I think we should easily make the playoffs with this roster. I think all the moves will pay dividends except Edmundson. I dont think he'll be a negative but I have a feeling he'll be our 3rd pairing D by the end of the year, which isnt the worst thing in the world but when you consider he makes $3.5m vs. Kulak (who i think is better) at $1.8m thats not great cap management.

Im quite excited about our forward group. I think they will do very well. 

Agreed, yes to “contending”, but not sure about the “and more”. I don’t think we’re favourites to win the cup, and in our division, missing the playoffs isn’t even out of the question. But we should make the playoffs, with this lineup it will be super disappointing if we don’t. We should be good for sure 100 points, whether that’s enough, time will tell. But he has pretty much checked off all of the boxes. We should be tougher to score on, tougher to play against and tougher to keep off the scoresheet.

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The word "more" seemed to be contentious to some, so i did a quick edit.

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I am somewhere between 2 and 3 I am very happy with our forwards same with the goaltending as for the D I will reserve my judgement until about the 20 game mark to see how the newcomers are playing and the asset management. I feel like Webber will not have to play as many minutes this year as Petry will be able to take on a bit more with a good partner which can be a blend of Edmunsdon and Kulak depending on who we play and who is playing better. also I know a lot of folks are down on Edmunsdon but I think he will be a good PK player and someone who can help us protect a lead when needed with more of a shutdown style.

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Edmundson blocks shots , hits and played the PK on Carolina which will free up some time for Weber so I don't even care if he plays 3rd pairing or puts up points ....he'll clear the net for Price or Allen  he's big and will scrap if needed  ..I think we could find him more than acceptable despite some fans bemoaning his contract ...the grit of the club has changed as well with the addition  Anderson despite some fans criticism of  his contract ...this team over the summer got tougher to play against and kept their speed ...Toffoli will make up for what Domi lacked in size and defensive play ...and Allen gives us what has been lacking for years ...I think this team will make the play-offs because I think our PP will be that much better with Anderson and Toffoli giving us 2 skilled units ...it's easy to forget how young this team actually is ...if Romanov can live up to his billing and Anderson rebounds to his former self  we're in much better shape .  

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7 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

Edmundson blocks shots , hits and played the PK on Carolina which will free up some time for Weber so I don't even care if he plays 3rd pairing or puts up points ....he'll clear the net for Price or Allen  he's big and will scrap if needed  ..I think we could find him more than acceptable despite some fans bemoaning his contract ...

You could replace Edmundson's name here with Douglass Murray or Karl Alzner or Alexei Emelin or Ben Chiarot or Hal Gill or Jordie Benn... these guys all have one thing in common: they're adequate 3rd pairing defencemen but they shouldn't be anywhere near your top 4. MB now has two of them penciled in there.

While hitting and blocking shots are skills, being near the top of the league in these numbers doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. We've said it before, but guys who block lots of shots are one the ice when the other team is in shooting position a lot, which means they're also giving up a lot of shot attempts, possession, and possibly scoring chances. Guys who are hitting a lot are likewise hitting players on the other team who have the puck. You can't throw a legal hit unless the other team is in possession. So generally speaking, D men who are blocking shots and hitting a lot are not helping their team control the puck and generating offence, they're just spending most of their time trying to defend. That doesn't win games in itself. Proof of this are advanced metric showing WAR (basically how much a player helps his team win compared to a standard replacement player). Edmundson's score is negative, meaning he's actually hindering your team's success.

I have no doubt Edmundson will come over here and hit and block shots and play the PK. I'm saying those things don't matter all that much if a guy can't move the puck and generate offence. Not that they don't matter at all, just that they matter less. If a guy can create offence and play great defence too, all the better. But defence-only defencemen with bad advanced metrics simply shouldn't be in your top 4.

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45 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I have no doubt Edmundson will come over here and hit and block shots and play the PK. I'm saying those things don't matter all that much if a guy can't move the puck and generate offence. Not that they don't matter at all, just that they matter less. If a guy can create offence and play great defence too, all the better. But defence-only defencemen with bad advanced metrics simply shouldn't be in your top 4.

I'm pretty sure I know how you feel about Edmundson from your posts Ted . Personally I'd like to see the fit on this team first  and I don't put as much weight on advanced metrics when you get someone who will make the other team keep their head up before entering the zone or who will help your teammates  play bigger because he'll have your back .. Comparing him to an older slower Hal Gill or Douglas Murray past their prime , a not so gritty and smaller Jordy Benn who didn't clear the net for Price and player in Alzner who didn't have even a cup of coffee  assumes he's a bust before he even plays a game . If he turns out to be as bad as you claim after watching him next season I'll be the first to say I was wrong and you were right . 

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1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

I'm pretty sure I know how you feel about Edmundson from your posts Ted . Personally I'd like to see the fit on this team first  and I don't put as much weight on advanced metrics when you get someone who will make the other team keep their head up before entering the zone or who will help your teammates  play bigger because he'll have your back .. Comparing him to an older slower Hal Gill or Douglas Murray past their prime , a not so gritty and smaller Jordy Benn who didn't clear the net for Price and player in Alzner who didn't have even a cup of coffee  assumes he's a bust before he even plays a game . If he turns out to be as bad as you claim after watching him next season I'll be the first to say I was wrong and you were right . 

This is fair.  Edmundson, on paper, is essentially Chairot 2.0  But sometimes in practice these things are a bit different. Perhaps his positioning is better than what we've been led to believe (i only really remember noticing him a few times) maybe he will take a leap forward here. Maybe he's the perfect complement for Petry and will allow Jeff to be even more run-and-gun with the forwards. Really hard to say.

Right now, on paper, I dont see him as an upgrade over any LD we currently have (or had before we got him) besides Ouellet and maybe Mete but Im willing to give him a chance.  My biggest issue isnt with him its simply that I dont think we needed him. We already had plenty of mid-tier LD. What we need is higher end options. If he ends up being better than Chiarot then great but if its more if the same, what was the point? 

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7 hours ago, arpem-can said:

I'm pretty sure I know how you feel about Edmundson from your posts Ted . Personally I'd like to see the fit on this team first  and I don't put as much weight on advanced metrics when you get someone who will make the other team keep their head up before entering the zone or who will help your teammates  play bigger because he'll have your back .. Comparing him to an older slower Hal Gill or Douglas Murray past their prime , a not so gritty and smaller Jordy Benn who didn't clear the net for Price and player in Alzner who didn't have even a cup of coffee  assumes he's a bust before he even plays a game . If he turns out to be as bad as you claim after watching him next season I'll be the first to say I was wrong and you were right . 

My point about the above list of players is that I heard exactly the same thing from Bergevin and many fans at the time they were acquired: Defenceman X is big and tough and gritty and will excel in their own end and they're a great stay-at-home defenceman. And for the most part, I'm okay with having a guy like that on my 3rd pairing. You're right that there's value in having someone big who can match up against bigger forwards on the other team and having a guy who can play the PK and allow the better D men to rest. My problem is not with having a Chiarot or Edmundson on the team, just as there was never a problem with having a David Desharnais or Travis Moen or Brandon Prust on the team. All of those guys are NHL-caliber players and can be useful, but they need to be used in the right way. So my issue with this is that Bergevin continues to convince himself that he can build a top 4 around grit and size, and IMO, Edmundson and Chiarot and especially both together shouldn't be the way you construct your top 4.

6 hours ago, maas_art said:

This is fair.  Edmundson, on paper, is essentially Chairot 2.0  But sometimes in practice these things are a bit different. Perhaps his positioning is better than what we've been led to believe (i only really remember noticing him a few times) maybe he will take a leap forward here. Maybe he's the perfect complement for Petry and will allow Jeff to be even more run-and-gun with the forwards. Really hard to say.

Right now, on paper, I dont see him as an upgrade over any LD we currently have (or had before we got him) besides Ouellet and maybe Mete but Im willing to give him a chance.  My biggest issue isnt with him its simply that I dont think we needed him. We already had plenty of mid-tier LD. What we need is higher end options. If he ends up being better than Chiarot then great but if its more if the same, what was the point? 

Agreed with this, and this is the crux of the problem. MB has loaded up on 3rd-pairing defencemen yet again. He's planning on using Chiarot on the top pair and Edmundson on the 2nd pair and both of those guys on a good team are 3rd-pairing D men. What's even funnier is that of all the LHD on the team, Kulak is the one guy who looked like a decent 2nd-pairing defenceman for parts of the year and he's the guy who is likely getting bumped or traded to make space for Edmundson. You mentioned Edmundson maybe being a perfect complement for Petry, but we already have a Kulak, who seems to fit that definition to a tee. Kulak has far exceeded what anyone else has done as a partner to Petry (not that the options have been great) and he's done that primarily because he's a great skater and a decent puck mover. Edmundson is largely the opposite and not a puck mover at all. Past Kulak, you also have Romanov, who probably has the most potential as a top 4 LHD on the team, although it remains to be seen if he will make the adjustment to the North American rink/game and find his way right away or whether he'll need time as Emelin did. And yet despite having a strong-skating D man who can partner Petry well in Kulak and a prospect with better skill who can play a two-way game and hit already in Romanov, it looks like both those players will take a back seat to Chiarot/Edmundson.

Last point I want to make about your post is the thought that Edmundson in another Chiarot, and in a way he is in that both guys bring toughness, size, grit, etc. and limited puck-moving skill and offence outside of a big shot when they're already set up in the O-zone. But past that, the advanced metrics pretty clearly show that Chiarot is the better of the two. Like I said, Edmundson has a negative WAR score and was actually a detriment to his team the past few years, and despite having positive Corsi scores, he's spent his career on two powerhouse possession clubs in Stl and Car, and if you look at his Corsi relative to his teammates, he's at the bottom of the list. So everything suggests that he's a mediocre player being propped up by good systems/teammates and that he'll require the same thing here to look good. I have no doubt Petry can make a partner look better than they are but like I said, the odds that Edmundson is a better partner to Petry than Kulak are quite low, and the odds that he's better than Chiarot are low too. So if you have a guy who is not as good as your existing top 4 guys and those were guys you wanted to upgrade on to begin with, well then you haven't accomplished that.

 

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It's not that he's "done enough" ... he's done the wrong things.

Toffoli ... good deal, good acquistion

Josh Anderson for Domi and pick ... we got fleeced.   There's no indication Anderson will be anything more than what he showed last year (1 goal in 26 games).   Then to compound the issue he throws him a nice contract.    Just from a stats line alone, we should have gotten the extra pick.

Allen ... sure we can argue we needed a backup ... but ... cap wise it doesn't make sense

Edmundson ... over paying for a bottom paring dman

MB has made moves, yes potentially that can make us better ... but ... he did not address our major roster issues in doing so and we are now near the cap with too many RHD and still lack a top line LHD and elite scoring winger.   We'll be a middling team yet again, maybe squeek into the play offs and ride luck more than skill.

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I think we can contend. We've always had forwards playing up in the lineup. We've played forwards on the PP, that had no business being there. Julien felt that he had to play Price every game, & Therrien before him, because he was our best option to win. Unfortunately, they both burned Price out, not only physically but mentally. Now that we have a competent  back up, salary not withstanding, Price will be playing at the top of his game, and stealing games again. The defense is solid, albeit not spectacular. The forward lines that we are now able to put together can score and they are defensively responsible! We have players that can play on the power play and those that can penalty kill. They don't have to do both.  This will keep most of the players fresh. Surround yourself with better players makes you a better player. This will be contagious & I look forward to the season, whenever that may be. If we make any more moves, I hope it involves Drouin.

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11 hours ago, arpem-can said:

I'm pretty sure I know how you feel about Edmundson from your posts Ted . Personally I'd like to see the fit on this team first  and I don't put as much weight on advanced metrics when you get someone who will make the other team keep their head up before entering the zone or who will help your teammates  play bigger because he'll have your back .. Comparing him to an older slower Hal Gill or Douglas Murray past their prime , a not so gritty and smaller Jordy Benn who didn't clear the net for Price and player in Alzner who didn't have even a cup of coffee  assumes he's a bust before he even plays a game . If he turns out to be as bad as you claim after watching him next season I'll be the first to say I was wrong and you were right . 

I agree with this. I really think "advanced metrics" for defenseman are way overblown. Also Edmondson was playing behind some defenseman that are considered offensive guys. So if I guy isn't getting PP time and is defending against top players used as a shutdown and not getting as many offensive zone starts that all effects the advanced stats. I actually don't want a Karlson type defenseman that when the game is close and you're protecting a lead is sitting on the bench because they're actually a - player. 

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

So everything suggests that he's a mediocre player being propped up by good systems/teammates and that he'll require the same thing here to look good

   well like I said  I'd like to revisit the discussion maybe even after 20 games   ..I'm assuming you believe that even though he played on a Stanley Cup winning team and only has had 1 minus year in his career ( and it was -1 ) that this is all because of his teammates and not about his own ability ...my thought is Carolina like Montreal is an up -tempo team and he kept up no problem so I'm willing to wait and see how he fits on this club before labelling him a passenger .

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19 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

This roster is easily better than the one we had last year. Anderson fills more of a need than Domi. Toffoli is a nice add. Allen solves a problem MB has failed to address for years and hopefully improves Carey's performance as well. And Romanov could be a surprise boost, in addition to Suzuki and Kotkaniemi potentially progressing and maybe even Ylonen/Brook/FleuryJuulsen/Poehling/Evans giving us something.

I think we'll have good odds of making the playoffs, barring injuries or things you can't control like COVID outbreaks and weird scheduling. We should be better than Ottawa and Buffalo, even though those teams will be improved, we should be way better than Detroit (and hopefully beat them this year) and we should be better than Florida I hope. I think we'll even be in the realm of catching Boston and Toronto and who knows, maybe Tampa will have some fatigue from the long Cup run and some issues related to gutting some of their roster. We're right there.

That said, I still don't think we're a top 5 team in the league. We haven't addressed the LHD position to any significant degree. Edmundson is a downgrade on Kulak if he takes his playing time in the top 4. Chiarot is the same. And Romanov is a question mark and hardly a savior. I also still worry about Weber and Petry's ability to play a combined 45-48 minutes a night. I don't think that can hold up for a season. One of them gets injured and the rest of the D is a disaster.

So I really like our forward depth and our goaltending right now, but the weakest link last year was our D corps and that might actually end up being just as bad or worse this year if Chiarot/Edmundson are playing 45 minutes a night combined. Romanov is the one wildcard who can maybe change that, but if he's not top 4 ready, that D leaves us out of true contender status for me.

I’m in agreement here - I believe we will be a playoff team and much tougher to play against. Possible that we can win one playoff round To get to top 8, but imo we are not a top 4-5 team to which I define a contender. There’s still a lot of what if question marks at this time for virtually every player to play at top level. While we have balanced scoring potential we seem to miss that elite 40-50 goal sniper, and even high point producer. Most of those Snipers are developed vs. bought or traded for. I’m hoping Suzuki or KK can be one of those type of players or support one of those wingers to rise up. Drouin has to deliver on his promise. Anderson has to be injury free etc. 
On D , I hope Romanov can be an emerging leader. We are almost certain to lose one of Kulak or Chiarot next year in the ED so Edmundson has to prove worthy. In essence we need a lot of combined surprises which is asking too much for massive improvement so significant improvement is still acceptable 

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6 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

   well like I said  I'd like to revisit the discussion maybe even after 20 games   ..I'm assuming you believe that even though he played on a Stanley Cup winning team and only has had 1 minus year in his career ( and it was -1 ) that this is all because of his teammates and not about his own ability ...my thought is Carolina like Montreal is an up -tempo team and he kept up no problem so I'm willing to wait and see how he fits on this club before labelling him a passenger .

Wasn't Jake Gardiner a minus player? Like -24, with 24 points.  And Joel Edmundson +7, with 20 points.  And Bergevin was hot to trot, trying to sign Gardiner to a contract?

Slavin +30, with 36 points. Hamilton +30, with 40 points, Pesce +7, with 18 points, van Riemsdyk -7, with  8 points. Fleury -2, with 14 points.  Carolina was 9nth in goals against.  Looking at their defensemen, I think that you can safely say that Edmundson was not a slug. Just think, we could have had Gardiner. Certainly not for a lack of trying on Bergevin's part. So, after their #1 & #2, I think we got the best from the rest. Let's give Edmundson a chance. Remember, Gardiner was one of those free agents that did not want to come to Montreal.

 

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I have no doubt Petry can make a partner look better than they are ...

I cant stress how much this frustrates me.  Both Petry and Weber have been given such terrible partners for the past few years... sure they both make their pairings viable but neither has been given a real chance to succeed.  Put a quality player next to each of them (make Kulak is that guy although I think a step up from him would be even better) and I think both players would look 5 years younger. 

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Should have a fifth option of undecided. Have not seen Anderson play that much so am totally not sure if he is top line material. If he is then that would be a huge move in itself.

Never a fan of Toffoli, so not sure how that will play out. We are up to the cap ceiling which we need to do to compete. Realize that MB cannot wave a magic wand and get the players we all want. He has to take what is available and those who want to come.

Do believe that the defense will be fine this year. Goaltending will be great. So its just a matter of these new forwards scoring goals. Tired of losing games because we cannot even get a scoring chance never mind a goal.

100% sure that Julien is not the guy to coach this team now. With all the line options we have now he will be totally confused each and every game.

 

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32 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

Should have a fifth option of undecided. Have not seen Anderson play that much so am totally not sure if he is top line material. If he is then that would be a huge move in itself.

Never a fan of Toffoli, so not sure how that will play out. We are up to the cap ceiling which we need to do to compete. Realize that MB cannot wave a magic wand and get the players we all want. He has to take what is available and those who want to come.

Do believe that the defense will be fine this year. Goaltending will be great. So its just a matter of these new forwards scoring goals. Tired of losing games because we cannot even get a scoring chance never mind a goal.

100% sure that Julien is not the guy to coach this team now. With all the line options we have now he will be totally confused each and every game.

 

100% agree with all of this. will also add that I can't stand scoring a goal and then giving one up within a minute of our goal! I have no issue with the team we are going to ice this year only thing that would make it perfect for me would be a better first pairing LHD i am not down on Chiarot at all he just should be one pairing down in my view. 

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48 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

Should have a fifth option of undecided. Have not seen Anderson play that much so am totally not sure if he is top line material. If he is then that would be a huge move in itself.

Never a fan of Toffoli, so not sure how that will play out. We are up to the cap ceiling which we need to do to compete. Realize that MB cannot wave a magic wand and get the players we all want. He has to take what is available and those who want to come.

Do believe that the defense will be fine this year. Goaltending will be great. So its just a matter of these new forwards scoring goals. Tired of losing games because we cannot even get a scoring chance never mind a goal.

100% sure that Julien is not the guy to coach this team now. With all the line options we have now he will be totally confused each and every game.

 

You need only ask. :)

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2 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I agree with this. I really think "advanced metrics" for defenseman are way overblown. Also Edmondson was playing behind some defenseman that are considered offensive guys. So if I guy isn't getting PP time and is defending against top players used as a shutdown and not getting as many offensive zone starts that all effects the advanced stats. I actually don't want a Karlson type defenseman that when the game is close and you're protecting a lead is sitting on the bench because they're actually a - player. 

A few points about this...

1. Most advanced metrics that people talk about are calculated at 5v5, so they don't take into account PP time. They try to correct for situation and judge players on as equal a footing as possible.

2. If you want to look at a few other stats to compare Edmundson to his teammates last year, he was last on the team among D men with 40 giveaways at 5v5. He was also last on the team in giveaway-to-takeaway numbers at -20. His giveaway rate per ice time was 2nd worst behind only Haydn Fleury. For a guy people think of as a shot-blocking machine, he was only 4th on his own team among D men for blocked shots per ice time. As I mentioned before, he had the worst Corsi relative on the D squad last year as well, meaning the Carolina team did far better generating shot attempts with him on the bench than with him on the ice. To put that in perspective the only Habs D men with worse scores with him in this department were Otto Leskinen and Gustav Olofsson, and he was in the same ballpark as Cale Fleury. You are right that Edmundson had tougher zone starts with 48% of his shifts starting in the O-zone but Slavin was at 51% and Hamilton 52%, so they weren't getting significantly more and yet their metrics were much better.

3. I absolutely would want prime Karlsson on the ice above prime Edmundson at the end of a game. Don't get me wrong, I think Karlsson's ability to defend against a rush was not great, but he's also a fast skater and a great puck handler and great at getting on loose pucks and great at controlled exits out of his own zone. That means that more often than not, he was getting the puck away from the other team and turning it into possession for his own team to kill time and create chances the other way. Subban was the same in his peak. A lot of people criticized Subban as being too flashy or bad defensively, but he was absolutely outstanding at getting on loose pucks and getting them safely out of our zone. Being able to be first on a loose puck and being able to move it safely out of harm's way and being able to keep possession of it are as much a part of good defence and keeping the puck out of your own net as being able to hit or block shots. Karlsson and Subban do the former well, the likes of Gorges and Chiarot and Gill and Edmundson may do the second well but it's simply a less effective way of trying to win games. The old adage is that the other team can't score if you always have the puck, and the best defence is to find guys who are always in control of the puck and playing offence most of the game, not the ones who are spending their time chasing the opposition around the ice trying to hit and block shots. 

1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

   well like I said  I'd like to revisit the discussion maybe even after 20 games   ..I'm assuming you believe that even though he played on a Stanley Cup winning team and only has had 1 minus year in his career ( and it was -1 ) that this is all because of his teammates and not about his own ability ...my thought is Carolina like Montreal is an up -tempo team and he kept up no problem so I'm willing to wait and see how he fits on this club before labelling him a passenger .

So the fact he was on a Cup team speaks very little to his own ability, positively or negatively. Likewise, +/- is no a great stat for evaluating individual performance. A guy can play with Sidney Crosby and be +30 and the next year play on the 4th line and be -20 and that doesn't mean his skill level has changed. So you have to interpret everything with caution. I'd agree with you that Montreal, like Carolina, has been an up-tempo team and has had good possession metrics with Julien as coach. So my expectation is that Edmundson comes in here and probably ends up with a positive Corsi if he plays next to Petry and probably puts up 20 points and probably plays the PK and gets 20 minutes a night. But none of those things mean he would be better than Kulak next to Petry or Romanov next to Petry. The overall metrics suggest Edmundson is worse than a replacement player and my view is simply that he doesn't address our need for a top 4 LHD.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

The overall metrics suggest Edmundson is worse than a replacement player and my view is simply that he doesn't address our need for a top 4 LHD.

And this is the key.  
I dont have a problem with Joel Edmundson. I dont have a real issue with him on my team either. I think the contact is a bit high but not horrendous... but why do we need him? 

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