Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

Rank the habs defense


Recommended Posts

Im curious how everyone ranks our defense.  With Mete purportedly asking for a trade (MB says it didnt happen), Kulak getting rougher treatment from the team than seems fair, the development of Romanov etc - how do YOU rank our dmen?  We also have the ED coming soon - Petry must be protected, Weber will be protected and Romanov is except so only one of those other guys will be protected.

For me:

1. Weber
2. Petry - these top 2 are a real toss up for me. some days its weber, some days its petry. I give the nod to Shea because I feel like he often has the worse partner (although not so far this year) & the harder matchups but I dont think either is the wrong choice.
3. Romanov - its only been a handful of games but he already looks like he's easily our 3rd best right now

Things get interesting after those 3 and I expect a lot of varying answers but for me:

4. Chairot 
5. Kulak 
a close call between those two. I like aspects of kulak's game over Chairot & vice versa. 
6. Mete I rank him above Edmundson because he still has room to grow but for right this moment, its a toss up.  
7. Edmundson - although to be fair, he's been better than I expected & may improve as he understands the zone coverage better)
8. Fleury
9. Ouellet - 
i only include him since he spent time on the roster during the playoffs, i dont expect him to make the NHL team this year)

 

Obviously if we include some of our prospects like Norlinder, Guhle, Brook or Harris or Fairbrother we might have very different lists but its a bit tough to judge potential vs. guys with actual NHl experience.

So, what's your list? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was actually coming here to discuss exactly this topic after seeing Kulak being the one to get pulled for Mete while CJ once again lugs it out with the likes of Chiarot and Edmundson over the more mobile Kulak. In my view, this is the rank order:

1. Petry... this is actually an easy one for me. Weber has the reputation and in his prime, he was better than Petry, but at their respective stages of their careers, Petry is the superior D man to me and it's not that close. Petry's game fits into the modern day NHL much better than Weber's. He's faster, he's a better passer, he's better at skating the puck, and I've really been impressed with his defensive game this year.

2. Weber.. he's our #2 but a good one. Great shot, physically intimidating, calm with the puck. Where I think he's dropped off in recent years is his skating and his ability to get to loose pucks.

3. Kulak... is he a top 3 D man? Nope. But he's a decent 4-6 option and he's probably one of our most underrated players, if not the most underrated on the team. He made a fantastic partner to Petry, and he's done just as well paired with Romanov. Kulak can skate, he can move the puck, and he plays a decently-strong 2-way game. I don't understand why he's the guy sitting for Mete.

4. Romanov... he needs some experience but I've been extremely impressed by his skating and puck control. He can hit too, but he's way more mobile than Emelin ever was. I wouldn't be surprised if he supplants Kulak shortly on my list and maybe even Weber within the next year.

5. Chiarot... good shot and he's relatively consistent. I think he's actually overrated compared to Kulak, because people view Chiarot as "big, tough, and gritty." I'd rather see the more mobile Romanov partnered with Weber, as I see Chiarot and Weber getting caught around their own end too much and they have the same deficiencies to their games. But that said, I think Chiarot is a good 3rd-pairing player and his game this year has been much better than last year.

6. Fleury... I liked what he did last year. Obviously, he hasn't gotten into games this year, and I don't think his ceiling is overly high, but he's a responsible 3rd-pairing guy who can skate, play sound positionally, and make a decent first pass.

7. Mete... he skates the puck well and he's got good hockey sense, but with his size, he gets over-matched too much in his own zone and doesn't go enough in other facets to overcome this. If he provided offence like Quinn Hughes, you would overlook his size and defensive play, but it's hard when you're not putting up points either.

8. Edmundson... as noted in other threads, he's played well the past two games, but his first 5 weren't good at all. He's a weak skater with bad agility and he looks awkward with the puck. More importantly, I don't understand why we would trade for him and pay him long-term money to do the same job we already have Chiarot for. I get that he's a guy players like to have as a teammate, but he's also overrated and doesn't bring enough to stay in the line-up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Im curious how everyone ranks our defense.  With Mete purportedly asking for a trade (MB says it didnt happen), Kulak getting rougher treatment from the team than seems fair, the development of Romanov etc - how do YOU rank our dmen?  We also have the ED coming soon - Petry must be protected, Weber will be protected and Romanov is except so only one of those other guys will be protected.

For me:

1. Weber
2. Petry - these top 2 are a real toss up for me. some days its weber, some days its petry. I give the nod to Shea because I feel like he often has the worse partner (although not so far this year) & the harder matchups but I dont think either is the wrong choice.
3. Romanov - its only been a handful of games but he already looks like he's easily our 3rd best right now

Things get interesting after those 3 and I expect a lot of varying answers but for me:

4. Chairot 
5. Kulak 
a close call between those two. I like aspects of kulak's game over Chairot & vice versa. 
6. Mete I rank him above Edmundson because he still has room to grow but for right this moment, its a toss up.  
7. Edmundson - although to be fair, he's been better than I expected & may improve as he understands the zone coverage better)
8. Fleury
9. Ouellet - 
i only include him since he spent time on the roster during the playoffs, i dont expect him to make the NHL team this year)

 

Obviously if we include some of our prospects like Norlinder, Guhle, Brook or Harris or Fairbrother we might have very different lists but its a bit tough to judge potential vs. guys with actual NHl experience.

So, what's your list? 

This is pretty close to my list too. I think 4 to 7 are pretty much interchangeable. They all have good games and bad but IMO Kulak is probably the most consistent of the bunch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 

8. Edmundson... as noted in other threads, he's played well the past two games, but his first 5 weren't good at all. He's a weak skater with bad agility and he looks awkward with the puck. More importantly, I don't understand why we would trade for him and pay him long-term money to do the same job we already have Chiarot for. I get that he's a guy players like to have as a teammate, but he's also overrated and doesn't bring enough to stay in the line-up.

 

And yet he leads the team in plus/minus ... not an overly good stat to judge people on.   But, eye test .. I don't see him making glaring errors,  he's heavy on the boards, skates faster than I expected ... he's a solid bottom pairing guy, the problem is we're using him in the top 4.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

 

And yet he leads the team in plus/minus ... not an overly good stat to judge people on.   But, eye test .. I don't see him making glaring errors,  he's heavy on the boards, skates faster than I expected ... he's a solid bottom pairing guy, the problem is we're using him in the top 4.

Yeah, plus/minus is such a misleading stat. I think Edmundson has a bunch of pluses from goals scored while we were short-handed. He's also benefited from getting pluses on goals scored after our forwards generated turnovers and scored on breakaways (ie very little to do with who's playing D at the time) and he benefits from playing with our best D man in Petry. On the one hand, credit to him for not being on the ice for a ton of goals against, but I largely think Petry is carrying him right now and I think he would be much more exposed if we were playing against the likes of Tampa, Washington, or Vegas. We're playing bad teams in a weak division for the most part.

I can live with Edmundson as a #6 guy. But we have Chiarot, who's a #5, Kulak who's ideally a #5 but a #4 in a pinch, Mete who's a #6-7, Romanov who's a rookie that might need games on the 3rd pairing to get his feet wet, Fleury who's #6-7 right now, and so on. Not a great need for another #6 guy, and especially not on a long-term contract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I can live with Edmundson as a #6 guy. But we have Chiarot, who's a #5, Kulak who's ideally a #5 but a #4 in a pinch, Mete who's a #6-7, Romanov who's a rookie that might need games on the 3rd pairing to get his feet wet, Fleury who's #6-7 right now, and so on. Not a great need for another #6 guy, and especially not on a long-term contract.

This to me is the key and why I started this thread.  We have 2 top guys, a very promising young guy and then a whole bunch of guys who basically rank 4-6.  Not a single one of them is "not an nhl defensman" but are any legitimately #3s or better?  I dont think so. I think Chairot and Kulak are #4s in a pinch and maybe Mete could be too but not top 3.  Weber and Petry have been carrying their partners since... Markov left? 

If Romanov continues to improve then maybe we have 1-3 locked up & we're ok but it still begs the question: why did we trade for Edmundson?   It meant we lost Juulsen & im pretty sure most people here wouldnt have traded Juulsen for Edmundson. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

For me #1 Petry #2 Webber #3 Chiarot #4Edmunson #5 Romanov #6 Kulak. I don't count Mete as I don't see a use for him too small not enough offence and too weak in the D zone. I would like to see more of Fleury. Romanov will challenge for #3 soon.

 

My thoughts as well . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

For me #1 Petry #2 Webber #3 Chiarot #4Edmunson #5 Romanov #6 Kulak. I don't count Mete as I don't see a use for him too small not enough offence and too weak in the D zone. I would like to see more of Fleury. Romanov will challenge for #3 soon.

 

 Weber still # 1 for me barely over Petry, agree with #s 3 through 6 and your comments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1.  Weber, the guy does everything and unquestioned leader of the team

1(B) Petry - A great D man all around skills was a steal getting him for a 2nd back in the day

3-Romanov - The kids looks fantastic, still makes a few rookie mistakes but fitting in well.  Would like to see a little more offense but it will come

4-Chariot - Love what he brings to the team, nice physical stay at home D man, steady play and fairly reliable. 

4- Edmunson - Physical D man, no real offfense to speak of but plays a steady D game.  Fairly slow skater

5-Kulak - Not a huge offensive presence, not really a physical player, fits the bill as a third pair D man due to his reliability

Fleury - Prettly close to the same skills as Kulak, both could be interchangeable

Mette-Skill wise has be passed by Fluery, has decent speed but tends to make questionable passes and to small

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/2/2021 at 7:15 PM, ramcharger440 said:

For me #1 Petry #2 Webber #3 Chiarot #4Edmunson #5 Romanov #6 Kulak. I don't count Mete as I don't see a use for him too small not enough offence and too weak in the D zone. I would like to see more of Fleury. Romanov will challenge for #3 soon.

 

I would agree with this ranking - I think after 10 games, some are being very hard on Edmundson vs. the money we are paying him which is not his fault but MB's. Edmundson may be more useful in the playoffs and against the heavy teams. The interesting part for me will be to see who in the development ranks challenges for future spots. I am personally high on Struble's raw skills, and obviously Guhle for his power / size. Brooks, Fleury and Harris will be hard pressed to crack the mainstream. I don't see Chiarot being with us 2 years out, and I am not sure about Kulak either so with Weber inevitably fading, it becomes Petry, Romanov, Edmundson because of his contract, Weber on a thread,  then three question marks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/1/2021 at 8:49 PM, HabsAlways said:

 

And yet he leads the team in plus/minus ... not an overly good stat to judge people on.   But, eye test .. I don't see him making glaring errors,  he's heavy on the boards, skates faster than I expected ... he's a solid bottom pairing guy, the problem is we're using him in the top 4.

As Joel E. gets more familiar with Julien's system, he has been playing noticeably better. Yes, he does compare to Ben C. a lot, but after all these years, of not having any toughness on the team, I can't complain having Joel E. & Ben C.  Right now, they are the only ones willing to drop the gloves and do what is right. Weber, in my mind, is past his due date. Yes, phenomenal team Leader. But he's slow, doesn't anticipate well and fights with the puck every chance he gets. He needs to have his minutes reduced, including on the power play. Jeff Petry by far is the #1 D on this team. And you can see, with a reliable partner, Joel E. JP has elevated his game. I group Ben C.; Joel E.; & Shea W. all together. Kulak would be my 5th guy on D. He doesn't offer any of the toughness of the second 3, and doesn't produce enough offense to stand out. Romanov would be #6, with a high ceiling, eventually, top 2 imho. I would then go with Cale Fleury. He hasn't been given as many chances, as some of the others, but I feel that he can develop into a Kulak type player with more toughness. (plus being right handed helps) As for Mete, I feel that he may have missed his chance to show Bergy what he has. I still think VM has value, but not with this group of defensemen.

So..........#1-Jeff Petry, #2,#3,#4-(Shea Weber, Ben Chiarot & Joel Edmunson) #5-Bret Kulak, #6-Alexander Romanov, #7-Cale Fleury, #8-Victor Mete

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My rankings

1. Petry - he is as good or better in every aspect of the game than Weber. Better skater, passer, puck handler, shooter (hits the net more often), positionally. Like I said just better all round player.

2. Weber - Still good and well respected but is slowing down significantly, misses the net as much or more often than he hits it. Great leader though and still plays a solid defensive game.

3. Romanov - starting to look a lot like Petry. Great skater, good passer, checks well, positionally sound, has a decent shot. Everything you could ask for in a future top pairing D man if he is able to put up decent points.

4. Mete - this is based on what he has shown in the past that he is capable of. He started to really break out last season in terms of putting up points was on pace for 17 points until the season was cut short due to the pandemic. Still only 22 as well which I believe many people forget.

5-7. Chiarot-Petry/Edmundson/Kulak - Edmundson and Chiarot play similar and Kulak is a steady player (nothing special just keeps it simple like Danault on the front end)

8. Fleury - could jump to 5 next season if given the NHL time to improve his game.

9-10. Guhle and Norlinder. Put these guys in cause I feel like by the end of 2022 they will both be challenging for top 6 roles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Going to swap my order around a little insofar as how the players are doing now. Wondering if anyone still has Weber ahead of Petry... for me:

 

1. Petry.. play has dropped off a bit but he's still playing like a #1 D man on the year and he's maybe the only D man on the team who did what he did tonight to get that puck out of his own zone and up to Perry for the goal.

2. Kulak... we miss him in the line-up. He's the only other true puck-moving D man on the team.

3. Weber... just by virtue of there being no one else. But what has he really done other than having a big shot (which mostly misses the net)? Positional play has been terrible this year and you can't do that when you're slow.

4. Romanov... one guy with some potential to improve at least, but lack of experience is showing. We've also seen how much Kulak's experience/play has helped him, because he's looked much worse next to Mete.

5. Mete... struggled at first but doing a bit better now. Just not sure the ceiling's any higher than where he is now.

6. Edmundson... he's kept it simple. Provides little to no offence and not that great at skating/passing puck out of his own zone though. I have a feeling Petry is making him look better than he is.

7. Chiarot... he's slow, he's not skilled, and he's near the top of the league for penalties taken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Going to swap my order around a little insofar as how the players are doing now. Wondering if anyone still has Weber ahead of Petry... for me:

 

1. Petry.. play has dropped off a bit but he's still playing like a #1 D man on the year and he's maybe the only D man on the team who did what he did tonight to get that puck out of his own zone and up to Perry for the goal.

2. Kulak... we miss him in the line-up. He's the only other true puck-moving D man on the team.

3. Weber... just by virtue of there being no one else. But what has he really done other than having a big shot (which mostly misses the net)? Positional play has been terrible this year and you can't do that when you're slow.

4. Romanov... one guy with some potential to improve at least, but lack of experience is showing. We've also seen how much Kulak's experience/play has helped him, because he's looked much worse next to Mete.

5. Mete... struggled at first but doing a bit better now. Just not sure the ceiling's any higher than where he is now.

6. Edmundson... he's kept it simple. Provides little to no offence and not that great at skating/passing puck out of his own zone though. I have a feeling Petry is making him look better than he is.

7. Chiarot... he's slow, he's not skilled, and he's near the top of the league for penalties taken.

Me too. Even though I rated them, I still feel that they shouldn't play in the top 4, just because I rated them in the top 4.

Hence, having a puck mover with each sloth. So, if rating them from 1-7 determines where they will play in the order they are rated, I want:

1. Petry   2. Edmundson (he has to play somewhere, & be with a puck mover)

3.Weber  4. Romanov (being the puck mover)

5.Kulak   6. Mete

7. Chiarot (what BigTed3 said)

This order only justifies where they play in the lineup. You can mix and match the puck movers as required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1. Petry: slightly above average top 4 but on this team right now #1 however, his play has faltered the last 3-4 games.

2. Edmundson: helps make Petry a better player

3, Weber: Injured? drop off is amazing

4; Chiarot: most teams # 5/6

5. Romanov: hopefully some upside coming, was better before succumbing to coaching.from our staff.

6. Kulak: because Mete is on the team Kulak gets the coveted # 6 rating, needs coaching on positional play and how to make the safe play.

7; Mete: the little engine that tries, just doesn't have the skill set to compensate for his smaller stature

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, RCAF48 said:

 

1. Petry: slightly above average top 4 but on this team right now #1 however, his play has faltered the last 3-4 games.

2. Edmundson: helps make Petry a better player

3, Weber: Injured? drop off is amazing

4; Chiarot: most teams # 5/6

5. Romanov: hopefully some upside coming, was better before succumbing to coaching.from our staff.

6. Kulak: because Mete is on the team Kulak gets the coveted # 6 rating, needs coaching on positional play and how to make the safe play.

7; Mete: the little engine that tries, just doesn't have the skill set to compensate for his smaller stature

 

 

 

#3. You know? I wondered about that myself. Is Weber trying to play over an injury? Because, he is that bad, and you're right. That is an incredible drop off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, electron58 said:

#3. You know? I wondered about that myself. Is Weber trying to play over an injury? Because, he is that bad, and you're right. That is an incredible drop off.

The problem is that we say this every year. He plays fine for 10 games to start the year, he goes into a funk. He recovers a bit after the all-star break, then he fades again. He played well in the bubble after a long rest. I doubt he's any more injured than the rest of the players all the time, and I suspect a large part of this is just age, fatigue, and wear and tear. He's not young and 90% of D men kind of drop off in performance in their early to mid 30's. I think he's have spurts where he does better and he'll hold up more against teams with less firepower on offence, but at the end of the day I think the Weber we're seeing is something he'll be for the rest of his career. I don't think he can play 20+ minutes for 60-80 games in a row any more, especially with a condensed season like we're seeing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

The problem is that we say this every year. He plays fine for 10 games to start the year, he goes into a funk. He recovers a bit after the all-star break, then he fades again. He played well in the bubble after a long rest. I doubt he's any more injured than the rest of the players all the time, and I suspect a large part of this is just age, fatigue, and wear and tear. He's not young and 90% of D men kind of drop off in performance in their early to mid 30's. I think he's have spurts where he does better and he'll hold up more against teams with less firepower on offence, but at the end of the day I think the Weber we're seeing is something he'll be for the rest of his career. I don't think he can play 20+ minutes for 60-80 games in a row any more, especially with a condensed season like we're seeing.

I expect Weber has just got stale - he can no longer carry a methodical player like Chiarot - indeed Weber and Mete had a reasonable run in the past. It might be better for Romanov to play with Weber. The one thing we do know about Weber is he is a beast in the gym so the strength is still there however the speed is eroding. They simply need to break up this Chiarot pairing and see if Weber's play improves as a result. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, RCAF48 said:

 

1. Petry: slightly above average top 4 but on this team right now #1 however, his play has faltered the last 3-4 games

I mean, "slightly above average top 4" may be a bit harsh for someone with 16 points in 17 games and a +15.  He's been talked about in the Norris discussion all year... yes we're only 1/4 of the way through but i think he's top 2 on pretty much any team in the league right now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, claremont said:

I expect Weber has just got stale - he can no longer carry a methodical player like Chiarot - indeed Weber and Mete had a reasonable run in the past. It might be better for Romanov to play with Weber. The one thing we do know about Weber is he is a beast in the gym so the strength is still there however the speed is eroding. They simply need to break up this Chiarot pairing and see if Weber's play improves as a result. 

And that's the point: Weber can still play in the top 4, but he's not a #1 D man and he's not a guy who can carry his partner. We watch Petry carry his partners. We watched Subban do the same thing. We watched Markov do it in his prime. You pretty much could have stuck any other defender next to them and they would have made do. In Weber's case, his lack of speed and ability to carry the puck limit who you can put next to him, and it certainly can't be Chiarot or Edmundson. You need a guy who can skate and make up for Weber's deficiencies. The problem is that Julien seems committed to keeping Weber, Chiarot, and Edmundson all in the top 4, while rotating Romanov and Kulak out of the line-up. That just won't work in the long run. We got by against the Canucks but it isn't working against other teams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • H_T_L locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...