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Julien & Muller Fired


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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Actually i think his moves the last 12 - 15 months have probably given him some breathing room.  Ultimately a GM needs to win, but Molson is a notoriously nice guy. I think he will say "well, Marc has had some bumps but he's done really well the last couple of years"  - and ultimately, we've seen that with some of the best GMs in the league. Poile made a ton of gaffes in his first 6-8 years but is now super well respected. 

Unless the team absolutely collapses, i think MB is safe for at least 1-2 more years. 

 

 

I only see that happening if we make the playoffs and advance out of the North division. Anything less and he has to be done. He's spent to the Cap and if we go down in the 1st couple rounds i think the fan and media pressure will be too strong to ignore. Can you say boycott?

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14 minutes ago, claremont said:

Clearly MB had to make a move - he doesn't want to go down without throwing a life preserver out there with Ducharme. Funny how a couple of weeks ago, there was talk of MB being extended for another block of years. Now if this team continues to struggle, and as a minimum not make the playoffs or at least challenge in the first round, it is his line that gets cut.

MB has made 3 great moves in Anderson, Toffoli, Allen - 1 moderate faux paux in duplication of Edmundson to Chiarot - quasi clone. We have 9 picks in the first 4 rounds of next year's draft but with substantially reduced junior/college playing evaluation time, these will be some trials and errors. The good news is our future still looks bright with Caufield, Norlinder, Harris, Struble, Ylonen. The tough calls are still out there on Tatar, Dano, what to do with Byron / Lehkonen / Poehling

To be honest, though. "Our future looks bright" has been the mantra of this team since before Bergevin was even GM. It's time to translate that into "We are a good competitive hockey team that can make the playoffs and challenge for a Cup."

If we miss the playoffs again this season, Bergevin should be fired. Will he be fired? I mean, I have no expectation that he will be... But I suppose anything is possible. Bergevin has made some good moves over the past 12 months, but our D is still not great and Carey is no longer a great goaltender. He might not even be a very good one. For every good move Bergevin might make, he has failed to address other needs this team has.

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Haven't read everyone's reaction ... but ...

I believe Julien got a raw deal here.  We were 7-1-2 in the first 10 ... then Price basically started calling it in.  He's sporting a sub-900 save percentage for the season, and when your 10.5m/year "elite" goalie is playing like an AHL replacement, you're bound to start losing.    Sure Julien had some questionable line moves etc but you're bot going to win with stinky goaltending. 

Last night is a great example ... we lose in the shootout only because Price couldn't stop a beach ball.    Allen in net and we likely win that in regulation.   

Price's last 5 games :

 

FEB 23 -- -- -- 4 39 35 .897 0 65:00 1 1 1
TOR FEB 20 0 1 0 5 27 22 .815 0 59:03 1 1 0
TOR FEB 13 1 0 0 1 22 21 .955 0 60:00 1 1 0
TOR FEB 10 0 1 0 3 23 20 .870 0 58:53 1 1 0
OTT FEB 4 0 1 0 3 22 19 .864 0 59:02 1 1

0

 

With the exception of Feb 13th, that is some awful goaltending.  96 save on  111 shots for a 0.864 SAV percentage.    In those 4 games, 15 goals against for a whopping 3.75 gaa ... that just doesn't cut it.

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3 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

No doubt, Price deserves some of the blame for our recent record.

 

Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could get him to wave his NTC and goto Seattle?  Would probably take a first as well but totally worth it.

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9 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Haven't read everyone's reaction ... but ...

I believe Julien got a raw deal here.  We were 7-1-2 in the first 10 ... then Price basically started calling it in.  He's sporting a sub-900 save percentage for the season, and when your 10.5m/year "elite" goalie is playing like an AHL replacement, you're bound to start losing.    Sure Julien had some questionable line moves etc but you're bot going to win with stinky goaltending. 

Last night is a great example ... we lose in the shootout only because Price couldn't stop a beach ball.    Allen in net and we likely win that in regulation.   

Price's last 5 games :

 

FEB 23 -- -- -- 4 39 35 .897 0 65:00 1 1 1
TOR FEB 20 0 1 0 5 27 22 .815 0 59:03 1 1 0
TOR FEB 13 1 0 0 1 22 21 .955 0 60:00 1 1 0
TOR FEB 10 0 1 0 3 23 20 .870 0 58:53 1 1 0
OTT FEB 4 0 1 0 3 22 19 .864 0 59:02 1 1

0

 

With the exception of Feb 13th, that is some awful goaltending.  96 save on  111 shots for a 0.864 SAV percentage.    In those 4 games, 15 goals against for a whopping 3.75 gaa ... that just doesn't cut it.

Well CJ is the guy that kept putting Price in, so he bears some responsibility for that. 

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3 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could get him to wave his NTC and goto Seattle?  Would probably take a first as well but totally worth it.

It would be more fantastic if he was still an amazing goaltender who could win us a Cup.

Or if he wasn't paid so much money.

Or if we could trade him for assets rather than be forced to give him away.

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9 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Haven't read everyone's reaction ... but ...

I believe Julien got a raw deal here.  We were 7-1-2 in the first 10 ... then Price basically started calling it in.  He's sporting a sub-900 save percentage for the season, and when your 10.5m/year "elite" goalie is playing like an AHL replacement, you're bound to start losing.    Sure Julien had some questionable line moves etc but you're bot going to win with stinky goaltending. 

Last night is a great example ... we lose in the shootout only because Price couldn't stop a beach ball.    Allen in net and we likely win that in regulation.   

Price's last 5 games :

 

FEB 23 -- -- -- 4 39 35 .897 0 65:00 1 1 1
TOR FEB 20 0 1 0 5 27 22 .815 0 59:03 1 1 0
TOR FEB 13 1 0 0 1 22 21 .955 0 60:00 1 1 0
TOR FEB 10 0 1 0 3 23 20 .870 0 58:53 1 1 0
OTT FEB 4 0 1 0 3 22 19 .864 0 59:02 1 1

0

 

With the exception of Feb 13th, that is some awful goaltending.  96 save on  111 shots for a 0.864 SAV percentage.    In those 4 games, 15 goals against for a whopping 3.75 gaa ... that just doesn't cut it.

Yes Price has been a problem, but isn't it the coach who decides who gets the net? Price struggling and Allen playing lights out should be an easy call. This team had a whole week of practice to get their act together on special teams and this is what we got out of it? That alone should be reason to get canned but it goes beyond that. Chiarot on the ice in OT? Really? Questionable choices in the shoot out? I think CJ is a good guy but he just seems to have lost the room. It was time IMO.

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14 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I only see that happening if we make the playoffs and advance out of the North division. Anything less and he has to be done. He's spent to the Cap and if we go down in the 1st couple rounds i think the fan and media pressure will be too strong to ignore. Can you say boycott?

Maybe. But with the whole "this is not a normal year" narrative i think MB could escape even that.  Whenever someone says "boycott" the problem is, there's just so many montreal fans.  Even if a large group say "thats it, im done" there will always been 10x more waiting to take their place. 

That said, i actually think Ducharme will do well and i think we have the roster to do well so id be pretty surprised if we dont make the playoffs and potentially do some damage. 

 

3 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Haven't read everyone's reaction ... but ...

I believe Julien got a raw deal here.  We were 7-1-2 in the first 10 ... then Price basically started calling it in.  He's sporting a sub-900 save percentage for the season, and when your 10.5m/year "elite" goalie is playing like an AHL replacement, you're bound to start losing.    Sure Julien had some questionable line moves etc but you're bot going to win with stinky goaltending. 

 

There's no question a coach is only as good as his players & definitely price (and other's) play has made this an issue, but in the end, if a coach loses the room (and the last 2 games sure felt that way) then even thought it may not be his "fault" he has to go.    Lets hope everyone - including price - bounce back asap. 

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5 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

It would be more fantastic if he was still an amazing goaltender who could win us a Cup.

Or if he wasn't paid so much money.

Or if we could trade him for assets rather than be forced to give him away.

This. Im still holding out hope.  Goal is the one position where age really doesnt dictate as much. Tim Thomas was 37 when he won Playoff MVP.  I think there's still a decent chance Price rebounds.  We shall see how he responds to Ducharme's system. 

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8 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

 

 

Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could get him to wave his NTC and goto Seattle?  Would probably take a first as well but totally worth it.

I think he might jump at that offer.

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

This. Im still holding out hope.  Goal is the one position where age really doesnt dictate as much. Tim Thomas was 37 when he won Playoff MVP.  I think there's still a decent chance Price rebounds.  We shall see how he responds to Ducharme's system. 

Yeah. Maybe Waite should have been part of the cleansing. Price might need a new perspective.

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4 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Yes Price has been a problem, but isn't it the coach who decides who gets the net? Price struggling and Allen playing lights out should be an easy call. This team had a whole week of practice to get their act together on special teams and this is what we got out of it? That alone should be reason to get canned but it goes beyond that. Chiarot on the ice in OT? Really? Questionable choices in the shoot out? I think CJ is a good guy but he just seems to have lost the room. It was time IMO.

That's a good summary of the predicament - the club was floundering and that week off had no corrective measures. I wonder if Price's heart is not in it at this time re; COVID or just realizing this team is not good enough and he's tired from continually being the back bone. If Price doesn't turn it around, MB is going down with him. 

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44 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Haven't read everyone's reaction ... but ...

I believe Julien got a raw deal here.  We were 7-1-2 in the first 10 ... then Price basically started calling it in.  He's sporting a sub-900 save percentage for the season, and when your 10.5m/year "elite" goalie is playing like an AHL replacement, you're bound to start losing.    Sure Julien had some questionable line moves etc but you're bot going to win with stinky goaltending. 

Last night is a great example ... we lose in the shootout only because Price couldn't stop a beach ball.    Allen in net and we likely win that in regulation.   

Price's last 5 games :With the exception of Feb 13th, that is some awful goaltending.  96 save on  111 shots for a 0.864 SAV percentage.    In those 4 games, 15 goals against for a whopping 3.75 gaa ... that just doesn't cut it.

I don't feel much sympathy for CJ - as much as he loves coaching and his unfortunate heart incident in last year's post season run, he has $5 million of next year's salary plus the remainder of this year's salary to help promote healing. A coach has to win to be successful and even though his career record with the habs and without is solid, it is about what have you done for me lately.

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2 minutes ago, claremont said:

I don't feel much sympathy for CJ - as much as he loves coaching and his unfortunate heart incident in last year's post season run, he has $5 million of next year's salary plus the remainder of this year's salary to help promote healing. A coach has to win to be successful and even though his career record with the habs and without is solid, it is about what have you done for me lately.

I don't feel any sympathy either, we as fans could see the issues with the team on the ice but for some reason he couldn't or if he could he wouldn't address the issues.  His lack of creativity and reliance on old school methods were his downfall, as well all know (if your in the working world) you have adjust every day to new challenges in JC case he was a dinosaur that couldn't adjust

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By all accounts, Julien is an honorable person who treated players, journalists, etc. with respect. The same could not be said for Therrien. So whereas I wanted Therrien fired from the day he was re-hired, I don't think there's much joy in having to let Claude go. It was time to look at a new strategy, but he is far from the only problem behind this situation. I think we also need to look at how bad the PP has been (Muller +/- personnel usage there), how inconsistent Price has been (and how much cap room he's eating to be that inconsistent), and how poorly constructed our D is (too many slow lumbering types, including our captain). On top of that, throw in a few slumping players without contracts or who aren't happy with their situations (Danault, Tatar, Mete). There's more to this than just Julien, and despite his great trades, Bergevin deserves some of the blame here too, especially for the defence situation. That said, as I pointed out a couple of days ago, swapping coaches is really the only card Bergevin held in the short term. He's not likely to be able to acquire a Werenski or Dumba or so on in season without shaking up his core and without having that new player miss two weeks for quarantine. So this was the move for the short-term.

As far as the replacement goes, I also put out there that there weren't many options. With a shortened season and with quarantine rules, it would have been hard to bring in an outsider, so they were really only looking at Ducharme or Bouchard as serious choices. As I said, if it were Bouchard, it would have been a permanent signing and if it were Ducharme, it would have been interim. So here we are with Ducharme as interim. I don't hate the move. It gives you time to put your long-term coach in place later without having to start over in the middle of a 56-game season while you're still in the thick of the playoff race, and it also gives you a look at what Ducharme can do. I still think the Habs view Bouchard as the guy they want in place in the long run, or they would have just named Ducharme permanent head coach, but the question will come down to whether he wants the job and how much time he spends in Laval first. If Ducharme has success, he probably gets the job and Bouchard sits in waiting as the next guy up. FWIW, I'm also relieved that MB chose to dump Muller. Again, sounds like a good guy and a player's coach but he's had a lot of cracks at the can with the PP and failed. He wasn't going to be Ducharme's sidekick and it was just as much time to bring in a new viewpoint for the PP and forwards as it was to replace Julien.

As far as Ducharme's task at hand, he needs to change the way we play. Chantal Machabee reported that Ducharme was the one who convinced Julien to play more offensive/open the way we did for the first couple of weeks and that Julien wasn't happy trading scoring chances and decided to revert to a more defensive style of late. Ducharme has junior ties to the likes of Drouin and Allen, so will he fall back on them more than Julien? Will he play younger guys more having that junior background? Will it encourage MB to trade within the division for Nikolaj Ehlers, whom Ducharme also coached in junior and who is rumored to have been available from Winnipeg (a team we can trade with without quarantine)? Most importantly, I want to know if Ducharme will shake up the lines, particularly the defensive duos. The biggest thing holding us back right now is Weber-Chiarot, so will he be more comfortable getting Romanov and Kulak into the top 4? Julien loves his stay at home D, but today's game is won with puck control and speed, and Romanov/Kulak are far better at that then Edmundson/Chiarot. We saw Muller mix up lines in the bubble last year and give some youngsters more play, and I wonder if Ducharme might do the same thing. It certainly sounds like he wasn't on the same page as Claude in terms of thought process, so I'm hopeful that we'll see some change in terms of player usage.

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14 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Just didn't think MB would have the cajones to do it this soon. 

MB hates change, but as some of us said, he also couldn't afford to count another wasted season. He thinks we can win now and he thinks he added the pieces to do that. Our D is still in shambles (which Bergevin doesn't see because he still believes Weber is a number one D man), but there was too much there pointing to MB not being willing to be patient. After this year, there's an expansion draft. Tatar, Danault, and Armia could be gone. Weber and Price and Petry are all getting older. And we're in a weak division this season, whereas next year we might be back with Boston and Tampa and Florida and so on. We can easily be in the top 2-3 teams in our division this year, whereas if we were playing in our usual division, we'd be a 4-5 team in all likelihood and have a hard time pushing for the playoffs. Everything here, if you think about how MB would logically see this, suggests he sees a window to win this season and he wasn't going to waste that and just start afresh next year.

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