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I'm a big MB fan (a rarity here) but I think he's on a short leash. I think his contract runs out at the end of next year, and if we don't have a positive season, he may be a lame duck next year. If we do lose MB I think Molson should find a GM willing to blow it up

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37 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I'm a big MB fan (a rarity here) but I think he's on a short leash. I think his contract runs out at the end of next year, and if we don't have a positive season, he may be a lame duck next year. If we do lose MB I think Molson should find a GM willing to blow it up

I dont think he's perfect but his last 12-15 months have been night and day over what we saw the first 6 or so years.  Im ok with that. Honestly after the investment we've made in him, time-wise, I would rather he wasnt fired, even if we dont challenge the  next year or two.   I cant imagine some guy coming & taking over & just doing awesome.   Bergevin is finally starting to make smart moves and learn from his mistakes.  Lets see how he does.  He took on a decent team, made us worse but now has us better than when he joined. I think there's a positive trend so lets see where it goes. 

I just wish he'd stop overvaluing old-school defensemen.  Hopefully when guys like Romanov, Norlinder, Harris, Struble, Guhle etc 'arrive' we'll be forced to play them over Edmundson/Chairot type players. 

 




 

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Bergevin has made some good moves over the past year, but... He still continues to not address our glaring D issues. And he seems to really believe that Price and Weber are integral to the team's success. Which, at this point, might not be accurate.

I, too, sort of feel like MB is on a short leash. However, how many times have I thought he was gonna be fired in the past 3-4 seasons? A bunch. So... maybe MB will sign him to an extension regardless.

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MB has made some great moves during the last off season, however it's the moves prior to this that are killing this club.  The Price contract was ridiculous at the time and even more so now with the way he has played.  Yes he has made some great trades to fill the cupboard with draft picks however the product on the ice is suffering.  He is too attached to his veterans constantly bringing in players that have no place in the NHL and paying them as top line players.  Byron, Edmunson,  to name a few(that currently still pay on the team).  On top of that the Drouin trade will haunt this team for years to come.  If there is not a serious turn around this season I really hope MB is let go.....

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4 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

MB has made some great moves during the last off season, however it's the moves prior to this that are killing this club.  The Price contract was ridiculous at the time and even more so now with the way he has played.  Yes he has made some great trades to fill the cupboard with draft picks however the product on the ice is suffering.  He is too attached to his veterans constantly bringing in players that have no place in the NHL and paying them as top line players.  Byron, Edmunson,  to name a few(that currently still pay on the team).  On top of that the Drouin trade will haunt this team for years to come.  If there is not a serious turn around this season I really hope MB is let go.....

In itself the Price contract isnt hurting us right now. I dont think we could have used that money for other players so its not a huge deal but the side-effect is: how do you bench a $10m goalie?   If Ducharme has the minerals to do that, then we're ok, but I feel like he's going to continue to play price even though he's slumping hard right now. 

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34 minutes ago, maas_art said:

In itself the Price contract isnt hurting us right now. I dont think we could have used that money for other players so its not a huge deal but the side-effect is: how do you bench a $10m goalie?   If Ducharme has the minerals to do that, then we're ok, but I feel like he's going to continue to play price even though he's slumping hard right now. 

Ask Joel Quenville. Ducharme really has no choice imo

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1 hour ago, booboo_mtl said:

Ask Joel Quenville. Ducharme really has no choice imo

Yep Price needs a time out we have a better option right now it would be bad coaching not to do it! the money issue is the GM's issue not the coaches. we would have won a couple of the last few gams with Allen in net in fact I think we would have won last night!

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56 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yep Price needs a time out we have a better option right now it would be bad coaching not to do it! the money issue is the GM's issue not the coaches. we would have won a couple of the last few gams with Allen in net in fact I think we would have won last night!

I cant find the article right now but the other day i read (i think on HEOTP) a story where they showed the breakdowns for Price VS Allen. The biggest difference was on the Penalty kill where Price is getting creamed (allen still has good numbers there - they both actually have good 5 on 5 numbers) but what was really telling was that the team is playing much better in front of Allen on the PK than they have in front of price.  More perimeter shots on Allen, more high danger shots on Price. etc. 

Perhaps they feel like they have to cover for allen more or something but hopefully they can start to support price better going forward. 

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25 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I cant find the article right now but the other day i read (i think on HEOTP) a story where they showed the breakdowns for Price VS Allen. The biggest difference was on the Penalty kill where Price is getting creamed (allen still has good numbers there - they both actually have good 5 on 5 numbers) but what was really telling was that the team is playing much better in front of Allen on the PK than they have in front of price.  More perimeter shots on Allen, more high danger shots on Price. etc. 

Perhaps they feel like they have to cover for allen more or something but hopefully they can start to support price better going forward. 

Interesting, wonder if Price is starting to feel alienated by his team mates. That could be affecting his play as well. I like Price and am not ready to totally throw in the towel on him just yet but something has to change.

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12 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Interesting, wonder if Price is starting to feel alienated by his team mates. That could be affecting his play as well. I like Price and am not ready to totally throw in the towel on him just yet but something has to change.

yeah, I don't think we have to give up hope on Price just yet, but he's not playing well and he should sit for a while. It may help him. 

We can't lost hope in him because we're married to him for the next 6 years!

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I cant find the article right now but the other day i read (i think on HEOTP) a story where they showed the breakdowns for Price VS Allen. The biggest difference was on the Penalty kill where Price is getting creamed (allen still has good numbers there - they both actually have good 5 on 5 numbers) but what was really telling was that the team is playing much better in front of Allen on the PK than they have in front of price.  More perimeter shots on Allen, more high danger shots on Price. etc. 

Perhaps they feel like they have to cover for allen more or something but hopefully they can start to support price better going forward. 

Saw some data on this too, although not from HEOTP. I went back now to Natural Stat Trick and this is what they have listed:

At 5v5, Price has a sv% of .911 vs Allen a .952. However, Price has a better save percentage against high-danger chances (0.852 vs. 0.813). The average shot distance Price has faced is from 38 feet vs. 40 feet for Allen (so not that different), but the average distance for goals against is 21 feet for Price vs. 14 for Allen. So it sounds like Price is doing better at stopping chances from in close but he's been weaker at shots from distance, whereas Allen is stopping the easy stuff and getting beat by higher-danger chances.

Still at 5v5, Price is facing 25 shots per 60 minutes vs. 30 shots per 60 against Allen. Price is facing 5.5 high danger shots against per 60 vs. 6.5 per 60 for Allen. Price is also facing fewer rush attempts against and fewer rebound attempts against. So this would suggest that Allen is facing more shots and more chances against, even though Price is doing better at stopping those high danger shots.

At 4v5 on the PK, Price has a sv% of 0.845 vs .900 for Allen. Price's sv% on high danger shots is down here to .773, while Allen is strong at .917 here. The average shot distances they're facing are almost identical at 31 feet.

At 4v5, Price is facing many more shots than Allen (72 per 60 minutes vs. 53 per 60) and many more high danger shots (22.5 vs. 12.8 per 60).

 

To put all that together, it looks like Price is doing worse at stopping the puck both at even strength and on the PK. At 5v5, the D is actually playing better in front of him than Allen (less shots against, less breakaways and chances against) but Price is simply letting in bad goals on less dangerous chances. At 4v5, Price is getting worse play in front of him, with more shots and chances allowed. But he's also not stopping those chances. His save percentage on high danger chances is nearly 15% below what we're getting from Allen. So Price's poor stats aren't just a reflection of more chances against, he's actually doing a lot worse even as a rate of stopping pucks.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Saw some data on this too, although not from HEOTP. I went back now to Natural Stat Trick and this is what they have listed:

At 5v5, Price has a sv% of .911 vs Allen a .952. However, Price has a better save percentage against high-danger chances (0.852 vs. 0.813). The average shot distance Price has faced is from 38 feet vs. 40 feet for Allen (so not that different), but the average distance for goals against is 21 feet for Price vs. 14 for Allen. So it sounds like Price is doing better at stopping chances from in close but he's been weaker at shots from distance, whereas Allen is stopping the easy stuff and getting beat by higher-danger chances.

Still at 5v5, Price is facing 25 shots per 60 minutes vs. 30 shots per 60 against Allen. Price is facing 5.5 high danger shots against per 60 vs. 6.5 per 60 for Allen. Price is also facing fewer rush attempts against and fewer rebound attempts against. So this would suggest that Allen is facing more shots and more chances against, even though Price is doing better at stopping those high danger shots.

At 4v5 on the PK, Price has a sv% of 0.845 vs .900 for Allen. Price's sv% on high danger shots is down here to .773, while Allen is strong at .917 here. The average shot distances they're facing are almost identical at 31 feet.

At 4v5, Price is facing many more shots than Allen (72 per 60 minutes vs. 53 per 60) and many more high danger shots (22.5 vs. 12.8 per 60).

 

To put all that together, it looks like Price is doing worse at stopping the puck both at even strength and on the PK. At 5v5, the D is actually playing better in front of him than Allen (less shots against, less breakaways and chances against) but Price is simply letting in bad goals on less dangerous chances. At 4v5, Price is getting worse play in front of him, with more shots and chances allowed. But he's also not stopping those chances. His save percentage on high danger chances is nearly 15% below what we're getting from Allen. So Price's poor stats aren't just a reflection of more chances against, he's actually doing a lot worse even as a rate of stopping pucks.

good info.........nice homework !

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