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Mtl vs TB : Stanley Cup Finals Series Thread


Your prediction  

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  1. 1. Who wins the Cup?



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2 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Fairly certain that the players are only paid for the regular season . They do not get paid for playoffs 

But there is prize money for each player depending on how deep you go in the playoffs or win the cup.

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On 6/28/2021 at 10:47 PM, BigTed3 said:

We've faced teams with better talent than us, but this is the first series where we've been clearly out-skated. Tampa has been faster than us and they move the puck quickly. I don't think we have the guns on defence to match up but I do think we can do better with our forwards to put more pressure on their defence. Their weak spots are Mcdonagh, Rutta, Cernak, and Savard. I think we need to reunite the Byron-Evans-Lehkonen line, which was a great forechecking line. I think we need to bring Tatar back and reunite him with Danault and Gallagher, which was a great possession line. Get the puck, keep the puck. That's the best strategy for keeping it away from Tampa's skilled forwards. My line-up for Game 2 would be

Caufield-Suzuki-Toffoli

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Armia-Kotkaniemi-Anderson

Byron-Evans-Lehkonen

 

Edmundson-Petry

Chiarot-Weber

Kulak-Romanov

 

I'm going to make the same recommendations for Game 3 that I made for Game 2.

- Our D isn't holding up right now. Merrill is providing nothing. Chiarot is playing badly. Edmundson also made a big mistake. Gus is being sheltered heavily. Let's get two fresh guys in on D who can move the puck better.

- Up front, Staal and Perry didn't play poorly tonight, but we have zero finish up front. We need Tatar back in, enough is enough.

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Only 5 teams have come back from 2 - 0 deficits . Last team was Boston in 2011.   It was a nice run unfortunately doesn’t appear we’re going to have that fairy tail ending 

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46 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Only 5 teams have come back from 2 - 0 deficits . Last team was Boston in 2011.   It was a nice run unfortunately doesn’t appear we’re going to have that fairy tail ending 

Im not willing to throw in the towel yet. Despite 8 - 2 scoring in the first 2 games, we've been the better team for long stretches.'

We're now in a 'can't make any mistakes' situation again.   I think they will respond well in game 3 but its all going to come down to the bounces imho. If we can get a lead that would be a great start. 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm going to make the same recommendations for Game 3 that I made for Game 2.

- Our D isn't holding up right now. Merrill is providing nothing. Chiarot is playing badly. Edmundson also made a big mistake. Gus is being sheltered heavily. Let's get two fresh guys in on D who can move the puck better.

- Up front, Staal and Perry didn't play poorly tonight, but we have zero finish up front. We need Tatar back in, enough is enough.

Agree about the D.   Dont think Staal or Perry will come out because i think the team believes they give us a better chance than what we've got in the reserves. I do like the idea of inserting Tatar but im not sure who they would remove to get him in. 

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5 hours ago, habs1952 said:

But there is prize money for each player depending on how deep you go in the playoffs or win the cup.

I don't believe that is true. The playoffs aren't like the all star game which has a $ prize for the winners to split. That is relatively recent also just to give some incentive to the players. Players may have bonuses built into their contracts for X performance or team performance.  

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4 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I don't believe that is true. The playoffs aren't like the all star game which has a $ prize for the winners to split. That is relatively recent also just to give some incentive to the players. Players may have bonuses built into their contracts for X performance or team performance.  

Yes there is prize money during the playoffs . 

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  • H_T_L changed the title to Mtl vs TB : Stanley Cup Finals Series Thread

Can I ask a fair question?

Do you think Vasilevskiy is in the heads of the Habs? Honestly, both Habs' goals in the series were really McDonagh own goals.  The slowmo replay clearly showed the puck deflected off his skate into the net.  It's just that unlike in soccer, hockey doesn't credit own goals. Vasilevskiy hasn't let in a clean direct shot by the Habs.  Whether it's a breakaway, five hole or top shelf, he stops everything the Habs throw at him.  Even Caufield and Suzuki couldn't get it past him, forehand or backhand.  

Are we witnessing the changing of the guard, from a goalie's perspective, from Carey Price to Andrei Vasilevskiy in this series?

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46 minutes ago, PuckPundit said:

Like most goalies if he can see it he can stop it . They need to screen him , get in his crease but when they do thst the Tampa D manhandle the Habs . Or they need to get him Moving from side to side . In the previous page i

posted I thought Montreal might not score any goals and get shut out Tampa Is playing that good .  The fairy tale run doesn’t look like it’s going to have a happy ending 

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We score two goals in two games and a defenceman has scored one of them. Yep our defencemen are clearly the problem. 

The calls to put Kulak & Romanov in, oh my heart soars looking forward to two guys floundering about trying to find where they should be and getting there about 3 seconds late. Romanov should get better when he decides to accept coaching but Kulak is what he is...... Merrill or Gustafsson light. 

TB has more talent (you do get what you conspire to pay for) and they play tough, gritty play-off hockey but our guys are leaving everything on the ice so I am a happy camper.

We went into this series knowing we were the underdogs and required outstanding goaltending and a few breaks just to compete so why is everyone so upset about a couple of mistakes by our D? TB's defencemen have made more errors than our guys but their goaltender is playing very well and we just don't have the offensive talent to capitalize on each mistake they make.

Carey picks up his game a notch, our forwards crash the net even more, add a couple of breaks and we go back to TB to start a best of three.

I am a Canadiens' fan so I realize I see them through rose tinted glasses but they are giving me a very enjoyable spring/summer in the autumn of my life.

 

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I'm not sure about what lineup changes should/shouldn't happen... I mean, it seems like we played a pretty solid game overall last night but lost on an annoying 2-1 goal where Chiarot stepped up and missed at the blueline resulting in a 2-on-1 and a fluky 3-1 goal because of a terrible Edmundson mistake. Those were TERRIBLE goals. The difference was Vasilevsky. He is an amazing goaltender playing at his peak. Will he be lights-out for the whole series? If so, it doesn't really matter. We won't win. Can we turn the series around in Montreal. Hell yeah! Like almost everyone here, I wouldn't mind seeing Merrill replaced in the lineup. But that's not genius coaching. I guess we will see how important Ducharme is behind the bench on Friday.

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12 hours ago, maas_art said:

Agree about the D.   Dont think Staal or Perry will come out because i think the team believes they give us a better chance than what we've got in the reserves. I do like the idea of inserting Tatar but im not sure who they would remove to get him in. 

I also don't think they'll pull Staal or Perry, but you look at the line-up and Lehkonen has been our best penalty-killer, Armia has been gold for us in the playoffs, Anderson is bringing it this series and providing an element no one else does... I'm not sure there's an obvious answer as to who should come out because none of the forwards are necessarily playing poorly, but I do think they need to find a way to get Tatar in. He's one of the guys on the team who can finish and put up points, and he was a possession monster for us in the regular season and is still our best possession player statistically in the playoffs. Tampa cycles the puck so well in the O zone and they make quick short passes to set guys up in the slot. As I've said, I don't think we have the defence to deal with that quick movement, so the best defence as a team is for us to own the puck and limit the amount of time Tampa is set up in our zone.

The Suzuki line is playing well and I'd leave them alone, but otherwise, I think you go back to what has worked for you. That means Tatar-Danault-Gallaher to try to take more possession away from Tampa and to provide some counter-attack when the Danault line is on the ice. They play solid defensively with Lehkonen on the trio, but they produced one goal against Vegas and nothing so far against TB. I don't think you can have a line playing 18 minutes a game with no goals for.

On top of that, we know Byron-Evans-Lehkonen was also a great trio that gave opposing defence's headaches with their fast and aggressive forecheck. You look at the TB line-up and their biggest weakness is their D corps... Rutta, McDo, Cernak, even Sergachev... they don't do that well with pressure on them. I'd love to see a line that really bears down on that D and forces them into turnovers.

So that leaves me 3 spots on the last line for Armia, JK, Staal, Perry, and Anderson. I'd love to keep Perry in, but I just don't think he's playing better than the 3 younger guys and as I mentioned, I'd like to see Armia and Anderson crashing around together. You have last line change in Montreal, get that line out against Savard-Sergachev. Savard doesn't handle physicality well and Sergachev loses his temper a heck of a lot when he gets hit. So stick three big guys who can hit out there against them and hammer them. Get that Evans line out there against McDo-Cernak and make those big slow guys turn it over. I think the line-up, especially at home, has to be about creating mismatches that the TB defence doesn't like.

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^^^^ some good suggestions.......... IMO much better than your D choices.:) 

I don't know how much Tatar would help. He is small and generally plays small.  His past play-off production is roughly 50% of what he gives you in the regular season so he is more of a Maple Leaf type player.  However, perhaps he is angry sitting and it is a contract year for him so he may provide a spark but I hate sitting Perry.

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28 minutes ago, RCAF48 said:

^^^^ some good suggestions.......... IMO much better than your D choices.:) 

I don't know how much Tatar would help. He is small and generally plays small.  His past play-off production is roughly 50% of what he gives you in the regular season so he is more of a Maple Leaf type player.  However, perhaps he is angry sitting and it is a contract year for him so he may provide a spark but I hate sitting Perry.

As I mentioned, I also don't like sitting Perry. I think he and Staal have actually played well and I think Perry has probably overall out-performed Byron. But... Byron plays the PK (which has done well) while Perry plays the PP (which has been awful) and I see value in combining Byron with Evans and Lehkonen. If you put Perry with Evans and Lehkonen, the line loses their value as a speed/forechecking line. Perry plays well in a cycling role in the O zone, so he would need to play with other guys who play that game (one reason Armia has helped him immensely). I just don't think that has worked for us thus far and I think our best bet to beat Tampa is to put a pressure forecheck on them, so I opted for the guys who do that the best. If it weren't for that Evans' line's past success, Byron would easily be the guy I would sit first.

As for Tatar, I'll go off his possession numbers being strong. Even if he doesn't go inside a lot, his possession numbers were still strong in the playoffs (as I said, best on the team) and that helps to keep the puck away from Point and Kucherov. Gallagher and Danault have also produced more with him in the past than with Lehkonen or others, so I still think there's value there in trying to get those other two guys going offensively as well. He should be rested and motivated.

On D, we can agree to disagree. I know some here don't like Kulak and I agree that he hasn't been stellar in the playoffs thus far, but he's still been better than Merrill. In fact, everyone's been better than Merrill. Merrill was the worst defenceman offensively in the regular season and the worst defenceman defensively in terms of creating the fewest chances for and allowing the most against, and he's reproducing that in the playoffs. I can't recall a single offensive chance he's created and he's being destroyed defensively too. Only Byron has a worse rate of expected goals against per ice time in the playoffs. Only Byron, Romanov, and Chiarot are behind Merrill in terms of possession stats. The bottom line in straight-forward terms is that the Habs don't score when Merrill is on the ice and they end up having a lot of scoring chances against when he's there. I'll take either of Romanov or Kulak over him in a heartbeat.

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8 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Yes there is prize money during the playoffs . 

Where do you see that says there is prize money? What is the break down if there is? I've never heard of the NHL awarding prize money? I've watched since the 60's?

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I also don't think they'll pull Staal or Perry, but you look at the line-up and Lehkonen has been our best penalty-killer, Armia has been gold for us in the playoffs, Anderson is bringing it this series and providing an element no one else does... I'm not sure there's an obvious answer as to who should come out because none of the forwards are necessarily playing poorly, but I do think they need to find a way to get Tatar in. He's one of the guys on the team who can finish and put up points, and he was a possession monster for us in the regular season and is still our best possession player statistically in the playoffs. Tampa cycles the puck so well in the O zone and they make quick short passes to set guys up in the slot. As I've said, I don't think we have the defence to deal with that quick movement, so the best defence as a team is for us to own the puck and limit the amount of time Tampa is set up in our zone.

The Suzuki line is playing well and I'd leave them alone, but otherwise, I think you go back to what has worked for you. That means Tatar-Danault-Gallaher to try to take more possession away from Tampa and to provide some counter-attack when the Danault line is on the ice. They play solid defensively with Lehkonen on the trio, but they produced one goal against Vegas and nothing so far against TB. I don't think you can have a line playing 18 minutes a game with no goals for.

On top of that, we know Byron-Evans-Lehkonen was also a great trio that gave opposing defence's headaches with their fast and aggressive forecheck. You look at the TB line-up and their biggest weakness is their D corps... Rutta, McDo, Cernak, even Sergachev... they don't do that well with pressure on them. I'd love to see a line that really bears down on that D and forces them into turnovers.

So that leaves me 3 spots on the last line for Armia, JK, Staal, Perry, and Anderson. I'd love to keep Perry in, but I just don't think he's playing better than the 3 younger guys and as I mentioned, I'd like to see Armia and Anderson crashing around together. You have last line change in Montreal, get that line out against Savard-Sergachev. Savard doesn't handle physicality well and Sergachev loses his temper a heck of a lot when he gets hit. So stick three big guys who can hit out there against them and hammer them. Get that Evans line out there against McDo-Cernak and make those big slow guys turn it over. I think the line-up, especially at home, has to be about creating mismatches that the TB defence doesn't like.

Its sound reasoning but if they DID decide to put Tatar back in (and i dont think they would) I wouldnt be surprised at all to see JK or CC pulled out, even though i think either would be a huge mistake. 

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20 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

Where do you see that says there is prize money? What is the break down if there is? I've never heard of the NHL awarding prize money? I've watched since the 60's?

I found it 2.25 Million Finalist 3.75 Million winning team to be divided this season by the teams. I couldn't find when they started this. Also entry level and player over 35 can have play off bonus. I googled and learned something

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13 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I don't believe that is true. The playoffs aren't like the all star game which has a $ prize for the winners to split. That is relatively recent also just to give some incentive to the players. Players may have bonuses built into their contracts for X performance or team performance.  

 

9 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Yes there is prize money during the playoffs . 

 

23 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

Where do you see that says there is prize money? What is the break down if there is? I've never heard of the NHL awarding prize money? I've watched since the 60's?

 

You're actually both right.   The TEAMS dont pay anything to players in the playoffs, but there is prize money given out - either by the NHL or the NHLPA, im not sure which group.   Its prorated based on rounds (so losing in the first round will be worth less than the SCF) and i dont think its a ton (the  players arent playing for the money).  

The numbers, IIRC were like $15-20m most years, divided (weighted) between the 16 teams and then split up between the  players on each team, so most likely they are walking away with very little per player.  

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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Its sound reasoning but if they DID decide to put Tatar back in (and i dont think they would) I wouldnt be surprised at all to see JK or CC pulled out, even though i think either would be a huge mistake. 

I wouldn't take out CC but JK? 

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Fail for the coaches tonight. No adjustments to the line-up yet again. Next game, we need to see Romanov, Kulak, Tatar, and Evans in and we need to see Merrill, Gus, Staal, and Byron sitting. It's pretty simple.

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47 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Fail for the coaches tonight. No adjustments to the line-up yet again. Next game, we need to see Romanov, Kulak, Tatar, and Evans in and we need to see Merrill, Gus, Staal, and Byron sitting. It's pretty simple.

I agree with that, except for Byron sitting. He adds too much for us. I hate to say it, but I think the 4th guy to sit for me would be JK.... but that would create a question at center. But Byron is explosive and a good defensive/pk player. We need that.

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So... desperate times call for desperate measures. I understand that it's hard to change what has been working for you (Making it to Stanley Cup Finals)... but it's time to realize that there are some things that are NOT working for us. Especially in the Finals.

I want to start by recognizing the opportunity to win the Stanley Cup is still in front of us. There are two teams left that have this opportunity this year, and we are one of them. And it starts with the next game. We can beat this Tampa Bay Lightning team. We can win a hockey game, and it has to start with one.

Next, I want to start with the obvious change that needs to be made. Gustafsson and Merrill OUT! Romanov and Kulak in!! The time is now. Make it happen, please. I would play Weber/Romanov, Petry/Edmunson, Chiarot/Kulak.

Next... time to tackle forwards. First and foremost, I think matchups in this series is huge! We have been dominated in this area. I think we need to shut down the point and kucherov line. Our shut down line should consist of Danault/Lehkonen and (up for debate) Byron/Armia/Evans/Anderson/Toffoli/Gally/Staal. Personally... I'm going to say Evans. Next, I think we should have a top line unit of Suzuki/Caufield/Gallagher that should be matched up vs. the Johnson line. Let me suggest a third line of Toffoli/Armia/Perry vs. the Gourde line and a 4th line of JK/Byron/Anderson vs. the Cirelli line. Or I would swap JK and Armia... so you'd have JK/Toffoli/Perry and Armia/Byron/Anderson. Finally, a possibility of Danault/Lehkonen/Byron, Suzuki/Caufield/Gally, JK/Tatar/Toffoli, Armia/Anderson/Perry

Bottom line is that I am an advocate of having a shutdown line featuring Danault vs. Point (And I think Lehkonen should be on it unless he is scratched altogether), and I do think Gally should be liberated from that role. I think Gally should be put with Suzuki and Caufield for our #1 line and matched up vs the Johnson/maroon/mathieu line. The rest of the lines are also debatable, but, they would be tasked with going against gourde/goodrow/coleman, and cirelli/colton/stamkos.

IDK.... I'm at my wits end. Hopefully someone can figure it out... Go Habs Go! G'night... I'll be talking back at you before Monday!

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