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What do we want versus what we need?


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I am wondering how fans are looking at the offseason, do we want a splashy forward to score goals or do we want a puck moving Dman to help us transition out of our zone? or do we go big and move guys to get both? one way or another we are going to have to spend money and some guys will have to go. The question is what route should we take? and what makes the most sense to get us to our ultimate goal?

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11 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

I am wondering how fans are looking at the offseason, do we want a splashy forward to score goals or do we want a puck moving Dman to help us transition out of our zone? or do we go big and move guys to get both? one way or another we are going to have to spend money and some guys will have to go. The question is what route should we take? and what makes the most sense to get us to our ultimate goal?

The biggest need since we cleansed Markov/Emelin/Sergachev/Beaulieu in one off-season has been a puck-moving LHD. It remains the same now. I think if you solve that problem you instantly make a lot of the forwards more effective and better offensive weapons. Much of our offence is predicated on the counter-attack and scoring off the rush. We are not a very good team in the set O-zone offence (one of the reasons our PP is awful), so a transitioning D man could do wonders.

I've already posted what I think MB will do... I think guys like Drouin, Tatar, Lehkonen, Armia, Kulak, and Staal could be gone and players like Saad, Hjalmarsson, and Perrreault could be targets. But if I were making the decisions, I would see things differently. Right now, the framework for our roster next year could be something like

 

Caufield-Suzuki-Gallagher

Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Ylonen

Byron-Evans-Lehkonen

Perry-Poehling-Anderson

 

In other words, even if we lose Tatar, Danault, Armia, and Drouin, I think Poehling and Ylonen can potentially fill some of those holes and still give us a reasonable line-up. Evans would need to step into the 2-way center role, but Poehling could be a good 4C and play the physical game with Perry and Anderson. The line-up is still short on top-end talent, but it remains a passable line-up in many ways.

On D, I would love to go out and get a Zach Werenski, but the odds are pretty slim that that would happen. I really think the most accessible D men by trade could be Jake Bean, Vince Dunn, and Matt Dumba. All guys who could be potentially lost in an expansion draft. And Bean in particular could be the next Shea Theodore in terms of a guy who flourishes if Carolina happens to let him go. Maybe they protect him over Brady Skjei instead, but regardless, they're set to lose a good D man if they don't trade first. I would love to make offers to acquire Bean and Dumba, for example, and then protect those two and Petry in the ED. I don't think Weber gets claimed and if they happen to take Edmundson, we have Chiarot as a back-up to fill a similar role. It would potentially leave us with

 

Bean-Petry

Edmundson/Chiarot-Dumba

Romanov-Weber

 

What to give up to make those trades? Don't know. But I think instant upgrades on D are what this team needs to be a true contender again next season.

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

The biggest need since we cleansed Markov/Emelin/Sergachev/Beaulieu in one off-season has been a puck-moving LHD. It remains the same now. I think if you solve that problem you instantly make a lot of the forwards more effective and better offensive weapons. Much of our offence is predicated on the counter-attack and scoring off the rush. We are not a very good team in the set O-zone offence (one of the reasons our PP is awful), so a transitioning D man could do wonders.

I've already posted what I think MB will do... I think guys like Drouin, Tatar, Lehkonen, Armia, Kulak, and Staal could be gone and players like Saad, Hjalmarsson, and Perrreault could be targets. But if I were making the decisions, I would see things differently. Right now, the framework for our roster next year could be something like

Caufield-Suzuki-Gallagher

Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Ylonen

Byron-Evans-Lehkonen

Perry-Poehling-Anderson

In other words, even if we lose Tatar, Danault, Armia, and Drouin, I think Poehling and Ylonen can potentially fill some of those holes and still give us a reasonable line-up. Evans would need to step into the 2-way center role, but Poehling could be a good 4C and play the physical game with Perry and Anderson. The line-up is still short on top-end talent, but it remains a passable line-up in many ways.

On D, I would love to go out and get a Zach Werenski, but the odds are pretty slim that that would happen. I really think the most accessible D men by trade could be Jake Bean, Vince Dunn, and Matt Dumba. All guys who could be potentially lost in an expansion draft. And Bean in particular could be the next Shea Theodore in terms of a guy who flourishes if Carolina happens to let him go. Maybe they protect him over Brady Skjei instead, but regardless, they're set to lose a good D man if they don't trade first. I would love to make offers to acquire Bean and Dumba, for example, and then protect those two and Petry in the ED. I don't think Weber gets claimed and if they happen to take Edmundson, we have Chiarot as a back-up to fill a similar role. It would potentially leave us with

Bean-Petry

Edmundson/Chiarot-Dumba

Romanov-Weber

What to give up to make those trades? Don't know. But I think instant upgrades on D are what this team needs to be a true contender again next season.

I’ll agree with you on the defensive upgrades - I believe with nothing else Brook or Fleury make the team as the 7th defenseman and that does virtually nothing that makes us better there. It will be nice to see Norlinder play in Laval for a full season. 
I differ with you on the forward lines - Ylonen is a long shot and wishful thinking imo to make the jump so soon. We are awfully young at Centre with Suzuki, KK, Evans and Poehling- Any injury there shifts Byron there. I don’t think those forwards are passable at all to get us into the playoffs. In Goal, if we lose Allen in the ED, while Primeau had a great AHL season last year, he was shelled in a few nhl debuts and looked awfully nervous- he may need more seasoning. 
So we need better depth at forward assuming Drouin does not return, plus a Centre plus one more stronger scoring forward in addition to your defensive recommendations to get closer to contention

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3 hours ago, claremont said:

So we need better depth at forward assuming Drouin does not return, plus a Centre plus one more stronger scoring forward in addition to your defensive recommendations to get closer to contention

I suspect we will re-sign Danault. I think we may add another centre too - as i dont think they are sold with JK/Evans/Poehling filling the other two slots.  I wouldnt be surprised at all if MB traded JK +  for Eichel to be honest.

 I think we will probably add another depth winger or two but iI think ultimately we're probably going to stand pat there, which isnt horrendous actually. Imagine Gallagher and Toffoli werent hurt in the finals?  CC with a bit more seasoning.. thats a better winger group than what we saw in the SCF.   Drouin is obviously the mystery. Considering he didnt rejoin us for any of the post season, you have to figure he's probably played his last game as a hab.  But what do we do with him? Trade him? Buy him out? or is he actually 'done hockey" in which case you mutually terminate or bury him on the LTIR.  Either way, it would be nice to replace his offense so that is one change i could see up front. Otherwise, i think its going to be very similar to what we saw last season.

The back end is where we absolutely need one big move but we're almost certainly not going to get it. Unless Chiarot (or Edmundson) is exposed and claimed, I think its highly unlikely MB makes any changes with our top 4. Which is a shame because in the regular season it will not be as effective as in the playoffs and we need to play these guys (especially Weber, Petry and Chiarot) less, not more, to conserve their energy ahead of the playoffs. 

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49 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The back end is where we absolutely need one big move but we're almost certainly not going to get it. Unless Chiarot (or Edmundson) is exposed and claimed, I think its highly unlikely MB makes any changes with our top 4. Which is a shame because in the regular season it will not be as effective as in the playoffs and we need to play these guys (especially Weber, Petry and Chiarot) less, not more, to conserve their energy ahead of the playoffs. 

I concur on the back end - Looking at the last 4 Stanley Cup winners - Wash, ST L, Tampa - they all won with big defensemen on the back end with some moderate speed and were physical -  (Carlson/Orpik/Orlov, Pietrangelo/Payrako/Boumeister/Edmundson, Hedman/Sergachev/Bogosian/Cernak/McDonagh). For all those complaining about losing Mete - he was not going to get us thru the playoffs no matter who he was paired with. 

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1 hour ago, claremont said:

 For all those complaining about losing Mete - he was not going to get us thru the playoffs no matter who he was paired with. 

But we didnt get a 10 th round draft pick for him 

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11 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

But we didnt get a 10 th round draft pick for him 

We shouldn’t be drafting small d-men - let the leafs have Sandin, Niemela, etc. Thankfully Romanov plays much bigger than his size. 

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2 hours ago, claremont said:

We shouldn’t be drafting small d-men - let the leafs have Sandin, Niemela, etc. Thankfully Romanov plays much bigger than his size. 

There are exceptions (hughes) but yes i agree that in the playoffs size definitely can be a factor. 

 

47 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Thing is do we want or need him? he is not a long term solution could he be good for a year or two? hard to say the  guy has seen a lot of ice!

Its not the worst idea in the world.    Edmundson-Petry and Suter-Weber could be an interesting top 4.  Its short term of course but maybe thats what we need right now.  I could see him wanting to play next to Weber again.  i have no idea what $$ he's looking for though. 

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Suter is being bought out, so i imagine he'll play for a lot less money going forward. Might even agree to a short term deal. I haven't watched much of him (not at all this year) in the past but he just might be a good partner again for Weber. Maybe not our first pairing but probably an OK 2nd next to Petry and Edmundson. If Chiarot is still with us i thought he looked pretty good paired up with Romanov. That could be a good 3rd pairing for another year.

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3 hours ago, claremont said:

We shouldn’t be drafting small d-men - let the leafs have Sandin, Niemela, etc. Thankfully Romanov plays much bigger than his size. 

I don't think you can have only small D men but I think there's room to have 1-2 on the team. It's not just about size for me, it's what they bring to the table otherwise. I'd take a Quinn Hughes next to Weber or Petry. I'd take a guy like Ryan Ellis or Samuel Girard. It's about how you use them and who you put them next to, but those guys are capable. Not ruling out a small guy just because of size.

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1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

Suter is being bought out, so i imagine he'll play for a lot less money going forward. Might even agree to a short term deal. I haven't watched much of him (not at all this year) in the past but he just might be a good partner again for Weber. Maybe not our first pairing but probably an OK 2nd next to Petry and Edmundson. If Chiarot is still with us i thought he looked pretty good paired up with Romanov. That could be a good 3rd pairing for another year.

Its still not perfect, but probably one of the best situations we could realistically hope for.  It means Petry - Edmundson becomes the defacto #1 pair because they can handle the minutes better. It means Chiarot pushes down to the third pair (where i think he'll excel) and it means Weber finally gets a mobile partner (albeit another old guy). You end up with a good band-aid solution for 1-2 years.

Edmundson-Petry
Suter-Weber
Chairot-Romanov

Not perfect, but the best group we've had in a long time. 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't think you can have only small D men but I think there's room to have 1-2 on the team. It's not just about size for me, it's what they bring to the table otherwise. I'd take a Quinn Hughes next to Weber or Petry. I'd take a guy like Ryan Ellis or Samuel Girard. It's about how you use them and who you put them next to, but those guys are capable. Not ruling out a small guy just because of size.

I agree we have a big defense right now having a small guy with the right skill set is fine and probably good for us as long as he can handle himself well enough on the defence side not to be a liability what a small mobile Dman with real skill could really help our PP and our transition.

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36 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Its still not perfect, but probably one of the best situations we could realistically hope for.  It means Petry - Edmundson becomes the defacto #1 pair because they can handle the minutes better. It means Chiarot pushes down to the third pair (where i think he'll excel) and it means Weber finally gets a mobile partner (albeit another old guy). You end up with a good band-aid solution for 1-2 years.

Edmundson-Petry
Suter-Weber
Chairot-Romanov

Not perfect, but the best group we've had in a long time. 

For 1 or two years that could really work we would still have to have a seviceable backup Dman in case someone goes down but on paper it could be really good.

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

In principle, yes - but its much more difficult to blame the cowbell.  

 

2 hours ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Less kinot more cowbell. :freu1:

You people are sick, sick, sick. :wut2:

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7 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Well it looks like we need an RHD and an LHD!

And sadly, this was obvious last year. Weber and Petry are good D men but both older players and at injury risk more than the average player. Our organizational depth at RHD is weak. It's those two, Fleury, Brook, and a bunch of lefties that they've been trying off-wing. There were warning signs we needed someone else, hence why I was recommending trading for Dumba last year despite Weber and Petry. The same thing is happening at center. It's Suzuki, JK, maybe Danault or Evans... then who? Not set at RHD or C and with the wealth of LHD prospects coming in a year or two, that's less of a need than those two positions IMO.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/12/2021 at 8:46 PM, ramcharger440 said:

I am wondering how fans are looking at the offseason, do we want a splashy forward to score goals or do we want a puck moving Dman to help us transition out of our zone? or do we go big and move guys to get both? one way or another we are going to have to spend money and some guys will have to go. The question is what route should we take? and what makes the most sense to get us to our ultimate goal?

Well,,,, we spent the money and didn't get either that splashy forward or puck moving D. Pretty much what we expected,,,right??

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2 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Well,,,, we spent the money and didn't get either that splashy forward or puck moving D. Pretty much what we expected,,,right??

Well technically we havent spent the money because we have pretty near a whole roster signed & close to $14m in cap space (assuming Weber goes on the LTIR) so hopefully there's still more to come but im not sure what or who... 

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9 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Well technically we havent spent the money because we have pretty near a whole roster signed & close to $14m in cap space (assuming Weber goes on the LTIR) so hopefully there's still more to come but im not sure what or who... 

same as the last expansion draft :D

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