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What do we want versus what we need?


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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Well technically we havent spent the money because we have pretty near a whole roster signed & close to $14m in cap space (assuming Weber goes on the LTIR) so hopefully there's still more to come but im not sure what or who... 

Yeah I was thinking that too. MB has never liked the free agent frenzy. he will have the cash to make a move or perhaps two once he gets done with Lehks and KK.

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On 7/12/2021 at 8:46 PM, ramcharger440 said:

I am wondering how fans are looking at the offseason, do we want a splashy forward to score goals or do we want a puck moving Dman to help us transition out of our zone? or do we go big and move guys to get both? one way or another we are going to have to spend money and some guys will have to go. The question is what route should we take? and what makes the most sense to get us to our ultimate goal?

We definitely need a puck moving defenseman, and we can't be too choosy as to which side. The longer the puck stays out of our end, the more chances we will have in the offensive zone. We had too much trouble getting it out of our own end, and when we do, it is usually icing. I can't believe how many times we iced the puck, when we weren't even under any pressure. Those puck moving defensemen thrive under pressure, and don't ice the puck.  So.....my vote, is a PMD!

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On 7/29/2021 at 12:29 AM, electron58 said:

We definitely need a puck moving defenseman, and we can't be too choosy as to which side. The longer the puck stays out of our end, the more chances we will have in the offensive zone. We had too much trouble getting it out of our own end, and when we do, it is usually icing. I can't believe how many times we iced the puck, when we weren't even under any pressure. Those puck moving defensemen thrive under pressure, and don't ice the puck.  So.....my vote, is a PMD!

So there are actually stats for this. Last year, the Habs in the regular season iced the puck 232 times, 17th highest in the league (so almost smack in the middle although only a few icings behind the 6 teams in front of them). They re-iced it 42 times after an initial icing, 9th-worst in the league. They allowed a goal 10 times off the icing calls, which was 21st in the league.So all in the all, they were really an average team insofar as icing the puck goes and allowing goals off of icings. That said, I 100% agree with you on the puck-moving D man, because even though they didn't always ice the puck, they also weren't very good at breakout passes.

The other area they aren't very good is set offence. When other teams iced against us, we were 8th worst in the league at capitalizing on this and scoring goals from the O zone. Our offence in the O zone was putrid at ES and putrid on the PP. Really in need of a better PP quarterback and we went back to Weber in this role far too often when he wasn't good there.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

So there are actually stats for this. Last year, the Habs in the regular season iced the puck 232 times, 17th highest in the league (so almost smack in the middle although only a few icings behind the 6 teams in front of them). They re-iced it 42 times after an initial icing, 9th-worst in the league. They allowed a goal 10 times off the icing calls, which was 21st in the league.So all in the all, they were really an average team insofar as icing the puck goes and allowing goals off of icings. That said, I 100% agree with you on the puck-moving D man, because even though they didn't always ice the puck, they also weren't very good at breakout passes.

The other area they aren't very good is set offence. When other teams iced against us, we were 8th worst in the league at capitalizing on this and scoring goals from the O zone. Our offence in the O zone was putrid at ES and putrid on the PP. Really in need of a better PP quarterback and we went back to Weber in this role far too often when he wasn't good there.

You know Im a Weber fan but one of the dumbest things this team has done consistently is try to use him as PP Quarterback.  When not injured, his shot is lethal but its just one trick. Thats it.  Take a guy like Petry - good shot, great passing, terrific deking ability - thats  PP QB (and he's not even comparable to a guy like Markov who was elite as a QB) but Weber? Dumb.  Why we didnt just put him on the half-wall for one times a-la ovechkin i'll never know.   Anyway, with him being out this year i think we'll see some changes. Finally.

I assume Petry will QB one of the units and adding Caufleld and Hoffman should really help. But we still need a guy who can pass from the blueline.  Maybe Suzuki plays there, maybe someone steps up that we havent thought of (Norlinder) or maybe (hopefully) MB moves some wingers for a defensman (although I think he's more likely to be targeting a centre).

One guy im really interested in is Wideman. I know he doesnt have great NHL career stats but maybe he's a late bloomer like Petry.  Last year he had great offensive stats in the KHL and he's always been pretty mobile so there's a chance he might have a niche on the PP. 
 

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13 minutes ago, maas_art said:

You know Im a Weber fan but one of the dumbest things this team has done consistently is try to use him as PP Quarterback.  When not injured, his shot is lethal but its just one trick. Thats it.  Take a guy like Petry - good shot, great passing, terrific deking ability - thats  PP QB (and he's not even comparable to a guy like Markov who was elite as a QB) but Weber? Dumb.  Why we didnt just put him on the half-wall for one times a-la ovechkin i'll never know.   Anyway, with him being out this year i think we'll see some changes. Finally.

I assume Petry will QB one of the units and adding Caufleld and Hoffman should really help. But we still need a guy who can pass from the blueline.  Maybe Suzuki plays there, maybe someone steps up that we havent thought of (Norlinder) or maybe (hopefully) MB moves some wingers for a defensman (although I think he's more likely to be targeting a centre).

One guy im really interested in is Wideman. I know he doesnt have great NHL career stats but maybe he's a late bloomer like Petry.  Last year he had great offensive stats in the KHL and he's always been pretty mobile so there's a chance he might have a niche on the PP. 
 

I like your thinking on Wideman, I feel like he is going to be super motivated this year which could work out well for us. I would also like to see the Habs go back to a traditional 3F 2D PP on the second unit. My 1st unit would be 

Caufield-Gallagher-Armia

Suzuki-Petry

Kotkaniemi-Toffoli-Hoffman

Romanov-Wideman

I have Hoffman and Caufield on their off wings strictly for 1 timers. Gally ND Toffoli in Bumper Position/net front. Armia is a shooting option and Zuke PP QB with Petry as a second QB. KK as halfwall QB and shooting option and Romy can be a shooter from the back end while Wideman QB's from the back end. We seemed to give up an awful lot of odd man rushes on the PP last year so having 2 D on the second unit hopefully fixes that.

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15 minutes ago, maas_art said:

You know Im a Weber fan but one of the dumbest things this team has done consistently is try to use him as PP Quarterback.  When not injured, his shot is lethal but its just one trick. Thats it.  Take a guy like Petry - good shot, great passing, terrific deking ability - thats  PP QB (and he's not even comparable to a guy like Markov who was elite as a QB) but Weber? Dumb.  Why we didnt just put him on the half-wall for one times a-la ovechkin i'll never know.   Anyway, with him being out this year i think we'll see some changes. Finally.

I assume Petry will QB one of the units and adding Caufleld and Hoffman should really help. But we still need a guy who can pass from the blueline.  Maybe Suzuki plays there, maybe someone steps up that we havent thought of (Norlinder) or maybe (hopefully) MB moves some wingers for a defensman (although I think he's more likely to be targeting a centre).

One guy im really interested in is Wideman. I know he doesnt have great NHL career stats but maybe he's a late bloomer like Petry.  Last year he had great offensive stats in the KHL and he's always been pretty mobile so there's a chance he might have a niche on the PP. 
 

The Habs have always been infatuated with guys who don't fit the roles they've been given... stick it out with Desharnais as the 1C, stick it out with Gomez as a 1C, stick it out with Danault as a 1C, stick it out with Weber as a PP QB, stick it out with an aging Markov as a 1st pairing D man, stick it out with Alzner, Schlemko, Murray, Bouillon, Merrill, etc., plug a Travis Moen or a Mike Blunden onto the top line. They have an extensive history of using small sample sizes to make decisions or judging a player's worth based on how he would have done if he had played in the NHL in the 1990's. The modern game requires speed and skill and a guy like Gustafsson, who was deficient in many other areas, actually turned out to be a much better PP QB than either Weber or Petry.

We sorely miss a QB like Markov or even Subban or Streit or Schneider or Desjardins. Weber was never as good in that role as any of them, and I don't even know if I love Petry in that role that much either. Petry is a great possession defenceman. He's fantastic at moving the puck up ice while maintaining possession and passing on the rush, but O-zone set plays haven't been his forte either. The team as a whole is just a really poorly-coached, poorly-performing team when it's set up in the O zone. The one exception was the Armia-Staal-Perry line, which for whatever reason, rocked that aspect of the game. What are we missing? I think we need a more mobile puck distributor with better vision at the blue line, as you said. I think we also need more dangerous sharpshooters down low. Caufield is one. Hoffman should be another. Before CC, we didn't have a player with as dangerous a shot since we got rid of Galchenyuk. Hopefully CC's experience means he's not afraid to be a trigger man going forward.

Within the organization, addressing the first issue is much harder. Norlinder is really the only player who looks to be an upgrade on Petry. I'm skeptical of Wideman because KHL success has never translated all that well to the NHL. It's a different game and you look at guys like Kovalchuk and Jagr at older ages who haven't been able to bring that success back to the NHL or a Nigel Dawes or a Dadonov or so on. Guys who are stars over there don't always do well here (Radulov maybe being one exception, although he's also one of the few guys who left the NHL the first time more because of off-ice issues than because he couldn't play here skill-wise). I see Wideman as being more likely to be like a Chris Campoli or a Gustafsson more than a guy we can count on reliably and frankly, if we're running a top 4 that includes all of Ed, Chiarot, and Savard, we're not going to be able to have a 3rd pairing that we hide on the bench for 82 games. I still believe MB makes a move to get better at D or C or both.

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As much as I want to see Romanov be given more responsibility and role, he hasn’t demonstrated PP ability or pop as a PMD. That leaves Petry as our only PP d-man and rushing threat. So #1 for me is that role preferably on the left. I have confidence that the athletic beast Struble or the refined Norlinder can be PMD in a couple of years. Harris projects as a 3-4 and I haven’t seen enough of Guhle in an offensive capacity. 
#2 is a stronger center - suzuki, KK, the concussion prone Evans, and Poehling or Paquette won’t fill the net enough with pucks. 
#3 - I would have said RHD but Petry, Savard, Romanov on his off side and the unknown Wideman/Brook may be sufficient 

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