Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

2021-22 State of the Habs


Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Ok seeing those forward lines now on paper, I'm a little less choked about losing KK ... offensively we've improved a lot, even if you ignore any potential that KK had a breakout year.

Defenisvely ... well, maybe its not as bad as it looks as Weber was terrible for the most part last year and Savard can't be anyworse.    Its Chiarot that's the problem, they need to trade him and stick to Kulak and Romanov.

And who drops the gloves when teams take liberties or try to run us? Josh - we don’t want him fighting frequently or if at all with his shoulder risk. Edmundson? Unfortunately it’s still part of the game and Chiarot delivers that value for his teammates. 
I’m not a Chiarot fan and want him traded too, but I’m being realistic on the expectations. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, claremont said:

And who drops the gloves when teams take liberties or try to run us? Josh - we don’t want him fighting frequently or if at all with his shoulder risk. Edmundson? Unfortunately it’s still part of the game and Chiarot delivers that value for his teammates. 
I’m not a Chiarot fan and want him traded too, but I’m being realistic on the expectations. 

Fighting is almost gone in the NHL but ... Paquette, Savard, Edmundson, Poehling, theres a few big boys on the team now besides Anderson.  Chiarot isn't even known for fighting ... According to Hockeyfights.com, Chiarot has had nine fights in his 400 career regular-season games in the NHL, including four this past season.

So outside of the 4 he had last season, he had 5 in the previous 7 seasons
 

Paquette has had 10 fights in 5 seasons

Edmundson has had 10 in 5 seasons

I mean Chiarot's fighting ability is not a factor I'd base keeping him on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

You're forgetting Wideman ... so we likely see him over Roamov/Norlinder anyways

We might, but I don't think it's a given. He's been out of the NHL and he was signed to a low-salary contract where we can bury him in the minors without any concern for our salary cap. So you look at guys like Campoli, Gustafsson, etc. and he might just be an offensive option they have available but one where the coaches aren't a fan of his defensive play. I think he'll have to fight for a job, I don't think it's a given he's getting a starting spot. If they send Romanov down, it'll be for his development and Wideman will be a placeholder. If Romanov performs well at camp, I think he's ahead of Wideman on the depth chart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

We might, but I don't think it's a given. He's been out of the NHL and he was signed to a low-salary contract where we can bury him in the minors without any concern for our salary cap. So you look at guys like Campoli, Gustafsson, etc. and he might just be an offensive option they have available but one where the coaches aren't a fan of his defensive play. I think he'll have to fight for a job, I don't think it's a given he's getting a starting spot. If they send Romanov down, it'll be for his development and Wideman will be a placeholder. If Romanov performs well at camp, I think he's ahead of Wideman on the depth chart.

That's what I'm expecting as well, Wideman was brought in to replace Gustaffson and unless he suddenly starts turning heads for some reason, I think he'll be used sparingly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

We might, but I don't think it's a given. He's been out of the NHL and he was signed to a low-salary contract where we can bury him in the minors without any concern for our salary cap. So you look at guys like Campoli, Gustafsson, etc. and he might just be an offensive option they have available but one where the coaches aren't a fan of his defensive play. I think he'll have to fight for a job, I don't think it's a given he's getting a starting spot. If they send Romanov down, it'll be for his development and Wideman will be a placeholder. If Romanov performs well at camp, I think he's ahead of Wideman on the depth chart.

Wideman is a more complete defensman than Gus from what ive seen but i agree, he's likely right at the bottom of our depth chart for Dmen.  They most likely wont hesitate to put him on waivers if need be and they likely wouldnt stress too much if he was claimed.

It will be interesting to see how he does at camp. At 30 (or whatever he is) he isnt likely to get a lot better but it will be interesting to see how his KHL stats translate into the NHL.  I think he might end up on our opening night roster but i sure hope he's supplanted by Brook. No offense to him, but Brook is the guy with the long term potential. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, maas_art said:

Wideman is a more complete defensman than Gus from what ive seen but i agree, he's likely right at the bottom of our depth chart for Dmen.  They most likely wont hesitate to put him on waivers if need be and they likely wouldnt stress too much if he was claimed.

It will be interesting to see how he does at camp. At 30 (or whatever he is) he isnt likely to get a lot better but it will be interesting to see how his KHL stats translate into the NHL.  I think he might end up on our opening night roster but i sure hope he's supplanted by Brook. No offense to him, but Brook is the guy with the long term potential. 

There’s been a number of KHL d-men that have had success there but they have not translated to NHL success on their comeback or entry. Wideman despite some NHL experience and his taped critique of the Sens coaching staff prior to his departure, IMO he faces an uphill battle. Virtually certain Romanov is way ahead of him on the depth chart. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, claremont said:

There’s been a number of KHL d-men that have had success there but they have not translated to NHL success on their comeback or entry. Wideman despite some NHL experience and his taped critique of the Sens coaching staff prior to his departure, IMO he faces an uphill battle. Virtually certain Romanov is way ahead of him on the depth chart. 

I would agree with that. IMHo the team looks at it like:

Petry
Edmundson
Chiarot
Savard 
Romanov
Kulak
Wideman

This could of course change at training camp (And I personally dont rank them quite like that) and of course guys like Brook or Norlinder or even Guhle (who apparently is having a strong rookie camp) could change some minds... 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, claremont said:

There’s been a number of KHL d-men that have had success there but they have not translated to NHL success on their comeback or entry. Wideman despite some NHL experience and his taped critique of the Sens coaching staff prior to his departure, IMO he faces an uphill battle. Virtually certain Romanov is way ahead of him on the depth chart. 

For sure. Who was it last year? I remember that we were in on him, and he ultimately signed with the Leafs. & they needed D, but that guy didn't play much, and subsequently,  got traded. See. I can't even remember his name,  still.  Couldn't have had much of an impact. So, support for your POV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, electron58 said:

For sure. Who was it last year? I remember that we were in on him, and he ultimately signed with the Leafs. & they needed D, but that guy didn't play much, and subsequently,  got traded. See. I can't even remember his name,  still.  Couldn't have had much of an impact. So, support for your POV.

Lehtonen, but he was a Finnish player and the Leafs didn't put him in the best position to succeed. He would have been best served to play along side Romanov on our 3rd pairing to provide some offense from the backend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

I would agree with that. IMHo the team looks at it like:

Petry
Edmundson
Chiarot
Savard 
Romanov
Kulak
Wideman

This could of course change at training camp (And I personally dont rank them quite like that) and of course guys like Brook or Norlinder or even Guhle (who apparently is having a strong rookie camp) could change some minds... 
 

I think they view it as Petry, Savard, Chiarot, Edmundson, although I don't think the order of 2 through 4 matters much. They clearly see those guys as their top 4 and they gave the 3 gritty guys matching contracts. After that, I think the team views it as open competition and no other player ha a job locked up. I think they see Kulak, Ouellet, and Wideman as spare parts that can fill roles if needed, and they can return any of Romanov, Norlinder, or Guhle to other clubs without waivers. I'd agree with your order for the next three guys up (Romanov then Kulak then Wideman), but I think the team will leave the door open to Norlinder or Guhle making the club. The one thing that may cause them hesitation is the Kotkaniemi situation, where they just publicly stated they regret not having sent him back to Europe for an extra year. But there are spots there to be had and the upside is that if they go with Romanov AND a rookie they likely won't play them together, which means they'll split up Chiarot and Savard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Lehtonen, but he was a Finnish player and the Leafs didn't put him in the best position to succeed. He would have been best served to play along side Romanov on our 3rd pairing to provide some offense from the backend.

Yes. That's him. A Finnish player that played in the KHL, and put up good numbers. Kinda like Wideman, a Canadian player that played in the KHL. What teams do put players in a position to succeed.  Certainly not the Habs.  And where is Lehtonen now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, electron58 said:

Yes. That's him. A Finnish player that played in the KHL, and put up good numbers. Kinda like Wideman, a Canadian player that played in the KHL. What teams do put players in a position to succeed.  Certainly not the Habs.  And where is Lehtonen now?

If the Habs put their players in a position to succeed about  a third of them would be in the KHL or AHL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/18/2021 at 7:29 AM, RCAF48 said:

If the Habs put their players in a position to succeed about  a third of them would be in the KHL or AHL.

Who exactly?

This team has long lacked top end talent but one thing they do have is depth.   Our 4th line is full of players that would play way further up most NHL team's lineups. 

We can complain about Dhiarot/Edmundson/Savard as not being top pairing dmen but they are top 6 on every team in this league.

Its a complete false argument to suggest 1/3 of our team is not NHL caliber.   The problem we have is the top end, not the bottom. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Who exactly?

This team has long lacked top end talent but one thing they do have is depth.   Our 4th line is full of players that would play way further up most NHL team's lineups. 

We can complain about Dhiarot/Edmundson/Savard as not being top pairing dmen but they are top 6 on every team in this league.

Its a complete false argument to suggest 1/3 of our team is not NHL caliber.   The problem we have is the top end, not the bottom. 

It was not meant as an argument, I meant it as a statement or an opinion. You may argue if you wish. My post was a reply to an earlier one that asked what teams put their players in a position to succeed. I accept that my opinion is a complete false one but it is the only one I have this AM.

About a third of today's roster includes Wideman, Kulak, Norlinder, Romanov, Paquette, Perrault, and Evans. IMO these players struggle to remain in the bottom of our lineup and would be in a better position to excel elsewhere in our system. Since your definition of success appears to be holding on to a bottom pairing or 4th line position I can see why you don't agree with my suggesting that about a third of our lineup will have difficulty succeeding at the NHL level this year.  I even think Caufield will have difficulty meeting the level of success expected of him as he begins his first long grind of an NHL season, I will even utter the sacrilegious thought that he might benefit from more AHL time.

I haven't complained about Chiarot, Edmundson, and Savard because I think they are in a position to succeed and would not benefit from further minor league exposure . I have always thought they were good NHL players. I also think Byron is. IMO if the bottom end of our lineup was better it would follow that our top end would also be better but I have no advanced stats to support that opinion, just a gut feeling:rolleyes:.

I respect your opinion that our fringe players are better than other team's fringe players.

                                                                                                                                      - 30 -

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

Are there any unvaccinated holdouts on the Habs?

 

35 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Other than Ylonen, I  haven't heard of any.

well there are supposedly only 15 players in the entire NHL, so hopefully we don't have more than 1. Lamoriello today announced the Isles wouldn't let anyone play if they weren't vaccinated and Carolina has already announced their team is at 100% vaccinated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Are there any unvaccinated holdouts on the Habs?

 

4 hours ago, electron58 said:

Other than Ylonen, I  haven't heard of any.

 

3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

well there are supposedly only 15 players in the entire NHL, so hopefully we don't have more than 1. Lamoriello today announced the Isles wouldn't let anyone play if they weren't vaccinated and Carolina has already announced their team is at 100% vaccinated.

Looks like some teams are going to get serious.

The Columbus Blue Jackets have told Zac Rinaldo to stay away from training camp after the forward refused to get the COVID-19 vaccine. Surprised to see the Habs allowing Ylonen to come to camp. -  With the rules supposedly being stricter in Canada.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, electron58 said:

 

 

Looks like some teams are going to get serious.

The Columbus Blue Jackets have told Zac Rinaldo to stay away from training camp after the forward refused to get the COVID-19 vaccine. Surprised to see the Habs allowing Ylonen to come to camp. -  With the rules supposedly being stricter in Canada.

It's going to be tough for Ylonen regardless. If you're not vaccinated, you can't cross the border to play essentially, so he'd be ineligible for maybe 30 games this year anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

It's going to be tough for Ylonen regardless. If you're not vaccinated, you can't cross the border to play essentially, so he'd be ineligible for maybe 30 games this year anyways.

Ylonen won't get the vaccine!? Trade him, we have no room for people like him in our locker room

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

Ylonen won't get the vaccine!? Trade him, we have no room for people like him in our locker room

Seriously! Do we even know why he isn't vaccinated yet? Or are you just saying that everyone should be vaccinated no matter what even if it means the government can come in and hold you down and vaccinate you against your will? What happened to our rights and freedoms? The way you are talking makes you sound no better than the EDIT (in this case they are against mass vaccinations so lets trade them). Come on people, lets slow the role and maybe wait until we find out what the circumstances are behind his decision.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Ylonen won't get the vaccine!? Trade him, we have no room for people like him in our locker room

Wouldnt be surprised at all if MB considered it.  Im not sure how that would affect his trade value to be honest.   I suppose if he went to a US based team he would be more valuable since he could probably play up to 60-70 games.  On any canadian team he's going to miss at least 30+ games because of the border restrictions/quarantine time.


Im not really sure if he has much value tbh. He's a good prospect but i doubt if he's on many teams' radars.   That said, maybe Ylonen + Chiarot would bring back a PMD.  Who knows. While i dont agree with his decision, It would be a shame to lose him for nothing or a low value return. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Seriously! Do we even know why he isn't vaccinated yet? Or are you just saying that everyone should be vaccinated no matter what even if it means the government can come in and hold you down and vaccinate you against your will? What happened to our rights and freedoms? The way you are talking makes you sound no better than the EDIT (in this case they are against mass vaccinations so lets trade them). Come on people, lets slow the role and maybe wait until we find out what the circumstances are behind his decision.  

Its  a Vaccination and there is no legimate good excuse to not have gotten it yet, period.   You are free to choose not to get it but that choice, like any choice in life, comes with consequences and benefits.

If Ylonen is showing himself to be a science denying antivaxxer then yes, trade him.   Its time we stopped tolerating people who want to ignore facts and try and twist it into a "difference of opinion".    It's not an opinion if its demonstrably wrong.  Period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...