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2021-22 State of the Habs


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28 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

My question is whether he's really any better than McNiven/Primeau/etc. who were already in the organization. Doesn't seem like it so far. McNiven is already complaining that he's done everything asked of him and keeps getting bypassed by other goalies who he's outplayed (Lindgren cough cough)... Montembeault seems to fit that description too.

 

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On 10/29/2021 at 4:02 PM, BigTed3 said:

My question is whether he's really any better than McNiven/Primeau/etc. who were already in the organization. Doesn't seem like it so far. McNiven is already complaining that he's done everything asked of him and keeps getting bypassed by other goalies who he's outplayed (Lindgren cough cough)... Montembeault seems to fit that description too.

I've been pointing out that McNiven has deserved more of a chance in the organization for years. Meanwhile we wasted his development trying to pretend a mid-20s Lindgren was gonna develop into something other than an AHL starter. I wouldn't blame McNiven for being frustrated.

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Besides the playoffs, any idea how many games the team has actually won under DD? It certainly doesn't feel like many. 

This team looks lost. I know that there are some holes to fill, particularly on the back end, and Price being out is a huge loss but I do not believe this team should be THIS bad. We certainly shouldn't be having such difficulty putting the puck in the net. 

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27 minutes ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

..........but I do not believe this team should be THIS bad. ......................... 

Why not ?

Asking for discussion purposes  only not to create anything ,

The past 4 years the regular season has not been very good . They missed the playoffs 2 yrs . Two years ago they would have missed the playoffs if not for the buy in round . And last year they made the playoffs ( forget that they went to the finals ) with the worst record in the league . This year they lost Price and Weber ( and a few others  )  

PS FYI I also  thought the players they added should have been enough to offset the players they lost and they should have been at least competitive but this is sad

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

Why not ?

Asking for discussion purposes  only not to create anything ,

The past 4 years the regular season has not been very good . They missed the playoffs 2 yrs . Two years ago they would have missed the playoffs if not for the buy in round . And last year they made the playoffs ( forget that they went to the finals ) with the worst record in the league . This year they lost Price and Weber ( and a few others  )  

PS FYI I also  thought the players they added should have been enough to offset the players they lost and they should have been at least competitive but this is sad

We were hoping for that puck moving D, but sadly, Petry isn't even playing well.  It looks like we are doooomed.

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On 10/29/2021 at 2:32 PM, BigTed3 said:

My question is whether he's really any better than McNiven/Primeau/etc. who were already in the organization. Doesn't seem like it so far. McNiven is already complaining that he's done everything asked of him and keeps getting bypassed by other goalies who he's outplayed (Lindgren cough cough)... Montembeault seems to fit that description too.

Kinda like when they had Halak. Treated him the same way.

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This keeps getting uglier and I for one preached at least 20 games. I dont think it would be as bad a feeling if these were close games and we were not getting the bounces. We are just being brutally outplayed. And not by team likes Colorado or Tampa etc top tier teams. The teams smoking us should be the bottom feeder teams.

I think Mr Ducharme is in way over his head. We have huge gaping holes all over the ice. No puck support at all. 

Hate to say this, but where is Julien ..LOL

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2 hours ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

Besides the playoffs, any idea how many games the team has actually won under DD? It certainly doesn't feel like many. 

This team looks lost. I know that there are some holes to fill, particularly on the back end, and Price being out is a huge loss but I do not believe this team should be THIS bad. We certainly shouldn't be having such difficulty putting the puck in the net. 

- Powerplay bad but has been bad for a while

- PK very bad, which is new under Ducharme

- Not very good possession stats this year. We were way better under Julien.

- Very little cohesion in terms of a system for puck support

- Poor team discipline

- Ducharme seems to have lost the room, has exerted no leadership himself, and today blamed the players and said it's not his job to get them motivated every two days (um, actually it is)

He's been fairly useless as a coach. Most of the things that can actually be influenced by a coach don't seem to be going well. I don't really know why he's here, and it's looking worse and worse that we chose to keep him and let Bouchard walk.

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29 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Team held a 20 minute closed door meeting after the L A game 

 

I still say they need to go bowling 

Odd reports because media said it was players-only, and Ducharme came out to do press while they were still meeting, but then after the fact, it turned out that Bergevin went in and lectured the team... doesn't bode well for the coach if the GM's going in there but has the coach leave. Kind of feels like he's not part of the plan.

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59 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Odd reports because media said it was players-only, and Ducharme came out to do press while they were still meeting, but then after the fact, it turned out that Bergevin went in and lectured the team... doesn't bode well for the coach if the GM's going in there but has the coach leave. Kind of feels like he's not part of the plan.

MB needs to be not part of the plan, He let 2 top 9 centers go for very little in return and only replaced 1. In my book that is ridiculous and grounds to be fired! I said when it was announced that we were letting KK go that Dvorak was not enough. Many were expecting Dvorak to have a breakout year, why IDK he had never put up top 6 numbers. Even still they said wait 10 games or so you will see how much of an upgrade Dvorak is on KK. Well we are 9 games in and the only thing I think of Dvorak is that he is an upgrade on Evans. Little offense, good defense and strong in the faceoff dots, mirrors Evans exactly! We need a top line center for the umpteenth time in the last 30 years. Zuke might become that but right now he looks overwhelmed. Let's just say screw it and trade Anderson + Dvorak + Tuch + Yelonen + 2023 1st (conditional) + 2024 1st (conditional)

Conditions:

>1.0 ppg unconditional 

.75-.99 ppg top 10 protected 

.50-.74 ppg top 16 protected 

<.50 ppg 2nd round pick

Eichel is likely not playing this season and Montreal has pretty much tanked the season anyway so let's do it have Eichel get his surgery while we continue to suck and get a top 10 pick out of it as well. Who knows maybe we wi also win the Wright lottery.

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8 hours ago, campabee82 said:

MB needs to be not part of the plan, He let 2 top 9 centers go for very little in return and only replaced 1. In my book that is ridiculous and grounds to be fired! I said when it was announced that we were letting KK go that Dvorak was not enough. Many were expecting Dvorak to have a breakout year, why IDK he had never put up top 6 numbers. Even still they said wait 10 games or so you will see how much of an upgrade Dvorak is on KK. Well we are 9 games in and the only thing I think of Dvorak is that he is an upgrade on Evans. Little offense, good defense and strong in the faceoff dots, mirrors Evans exactly! We need a top line center for the umpteenth time in the last 30 years. Zuke might become that but right now he looks overwhelmed. Let's just say screw it and trade Anderson + Dvorak + Tuch + Yelonen + 2023 1st (conditional) + 2024 1st (conditional)

Conditions:

>1.0 ppg unconditional 

.75-.99 ppg top 10 protected 

.50-.74 ppg top 16 protected 

<.50 ppg 2nd round pick

Eichel is likely not playing this season and Montreal has pretty much tanked the season anyway so let's do it have Eichel get his surgery while we continue to suck and get a top 10 pick out of it as well. Who knows maybe we wi also win the Wright lottery.

Dvorak has been fine. He hasn't done anything extraordinary on his own but his line is playing well. His possession numbers are slightly under 50% and pretty much on target with what he's done his entire career. And he's on track to hit 35-40 points, which is also smack on target for what he's done his entire career. So I don't think anyone can say Dvorak isn't doing what Dvorak does. This is Dvorak. He's a middle 6 center who plays a sound positional game and puts up an average amount of points. There was always a small chance he broke out in a new system, but I said the following at the time of the trade:

- He's not a 1C and at 25 years old with 5 years NHL experience under his belt, he wasn't likely to suddenly jump up into another echelon of production. He has a known floor, whereby you know he's going to give you a certain amount of production and utility, but his ability to grow and hit a higher-end potential were very low.

- While we can say that Arizona was an awful team, Dvorak also benefited from getting lots of ice time with Arizona, way more than Kotkaniemi got here. As a result, it's not like we could say he was putting up 35 points in 12 minutes of ice a night. He was putting up those numbers with 16.5-18.5 minutes a night the past two years including PP time. This year, he's getting slightly under 19 minutes. But those extra 30 seconds a night aren't going to translate into 20 extra points per year all by themselves.

- He wasn't worth a 1st and a 2nd round pick, especially when that meant you were giving up more than you got in return for Kotkaniemi. I also said that I expected JK to struggle in year one with Carolina, as he shifted to a new organization and new position at wing, well down the depth chart on a strong roster. But I also expect JK to get more opportunity next year as the Carolina roster turns over a bit. Again, it's not to say Kotkaniemi will become a star, but at 21 and without ever having had big minutes or big opportunity, there's more room for him to grow there, and he's doing it on the background of having been a strong possession player here for us already.

The only thing that has really disappointed me about Dvorak since he arrived here is his demeanor. He seems to be a bit like Shea Weber: gives an effort but seems to be completely devoid of emotion. He doesn't look like he's enjoying himself out there, he doesn't ever smile, he doesn't really even celebrate that much after scoring. And while we can say results are results and as long as he performs who cares, this team as a whole really lacks leadership and it looks like they aren't having much fun at all. So I worry other players take cues from his lack of enjoyment and feel like he isn't invested. Other than that, he's pretty much bang on with what I thought we were getting. And if I could go back, I'd still rather have kept Kotkaniemi for the one year at 6.1M and never made those draft pick swaps.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Dvorak has been fine. He hasn't done anything extraordinary on his own but his line is playing well. His possession numbers are slightly under 50% and pretty much on target with what he's done his entire career. And he's on track to hit 35-40 points, which is also smack on target for what he's done his entire career. So I don't think anyone can say Dvorak isn't doing what Dvorak does. This is Dvorak. He's a middle 6 center who plays a sound positional game and puts up an average amount of points. There was always a small chance he broke out in a new system, but I said the following at the time of the trade:

- He's not a 1C and at 25 years old with 5 years NHL experience under his belt, he wasn't likely to suddenly jump up into another echelon of production. He has a known floor, whereby you know he's going to give you a certain amount of production and utility, but his ability to grow and hit a higher-end potential were very low.

- While we can say that Arizona was an awful team, Dvorak also benefited from getting lots of ice time with Arizona, way more than Kotkaniemi got here. As a result, it's not like we could say he was putting up 35 points in 12 minutes of ice a night. He was putting up those numbers with 16.5-18.5 minutes a night the past two years including PP time. This year, he's getting slightly under 19 minutes. But those extra 30 seconds a night aren't going to translate into 20 extra points per year all by themselves.

- He wasn't worth a 1st and a 2nd round pick, especially when that meant you were giving up more than you got in return for Kotkaniemi. I also said that I expected JK to struggle in year one with Carolina, as he shifted to a new organization and new position at wing, well down the depth chart on a strong roster. But I also expect JK to get more opportunity next year as the Carolina roster turns over a bit. Again, it's not to say Kotkaniemi will become a star, but at 21 and without ever having had big minutes or big opportunity, there's more room for him to grow there, and he's doing it on the background of having been a strong possession player here for us already.

The only thing that has really disappointed me about Dvorak since he arrived here is his demeanor. He seems to be a bit like Shea Weber: gives an effort but seems to be completely devoid of emotion. He doesn't look like he's enjoying himself out there, he doesn't ever smile, he doesn't really even celebrate that much after scoring. And while we can say results are results and as long as he performs who cares, this team as a whole really lacks leadership and it looks like they aren't having much fun at all. So I worry other players take cues from his lack of enjoyment and feel like he isn't invested. Other than that, he's pretty much bang on with what I thought we were getting. And if I could go back, I'd still rather have kept Kotkaniemi for the one year at 6.1M and never made those draft pick swaps.

Yeah that is more or less what I was getting at, others though thought Dvorak was going to be a 2C when all indication was he was a fill-in in a pinch but was a really solid 3C. I would have hated paying KK 6.1 Mil but since we let Danault walk it would have been easier to swallow as we should have just been looking for 1 top 9 center not 2.

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13 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

- Powerplay bad but has been bad for a while

- PK very bad, which is new under Ducharme

- Not very good possession stats this year. We were way better under Julien.

- Very little cohesion in terms of a system for puck support

- Poor team discipline

- Ducharme seems to have lost the room, has exerted no leadership himself, and today blamed the players and said it's not his job to get them motivated every two days (um, actually it is)

He's been fairly useless as a coach. Most of the things that can actually be influenced by a coach don't seem to be going well. I don't really know why he's here, and it's looking worse and worse that we chose to keep him and let Bouchard walk.

As I said before I am not going to beat the drum on DD but I cannot help it. This guy is useless!!!!!

His post game interviews are brutal! He never answers the questions asked and when he does respond he has no idea what the hell he is saying. He keeps talking about a style of hockey the team needs to play. Really I think the team is playing his style right now. They fired CJ with a much better record than this guy and he is still there??? MB signed this guy and that was just another blunder by our illustrious manager. We should have hired Bouchard. Both these guys need to go NOW!!!! This team is a ship without a rudder and the rudder is totally lost! The other three guys in the $1,000 suits should be included in the pink slip process.

How much longer is Molson going to put up with this BS?? His beer business has been very sccessful but his hockey business is a total disaster. Torts or Babcock would be a better choice behind the bench. The fact that he indicates it is the player who need to motivate themselves is being said only because he has no idea on how to get that done and the three three guys are dead from the waist up.

When we let CJ go in Feb  he had a record of 9W - 6L - 5 OTL

If we go back to April DD has a record of 11W - 19L - 2 OTL - (Regular season)

They pulled the pin with CJ but we still have a Bantam coach behing the bench? 

HIs interviews are a strong indication of his coaching style. The play on the ice is a clear picture of his skill as a coach.

There is no motivation with this team. They are totally lost on the ice and are disconnected in so many ways. Shots taken and no second efforts by anyone. The defence has no idea where they should be and leaving Allen hung out to fend for himself. They can have as many 20min meetings they want it is not going to make a difference. They need new direction and it has to come from a new voice.

This is totally embarassing for this revered franchise. I am hoping the they connect MB to the Beach incident and he has to resign. There is no way that the guy in charge of player development knew nothing about that situation. :5155:

 

 

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8 minutes ago, richard464 said:

As I said before I am not going to beat the drum on DD but I cannot help it. This guy is useless!!!!!

His post game interviews are brutal! He never answers the questions asked and when he does respond he has no idea what the hell he is saying. He keeps talking about a style of hockey the team needs to play. Really I think the team is playing his style right now. They fired CJ with a much better record than this guy and he is still there??? MB signed this guy and that was just another blunder by our illustrious manager. We should have hired Bouchard. Both these guys need to go NOW!!!! This team is a ship without a rudder and the rudder is totally lost! The other three guys in the $1,000 suits should be included in the pink slip process.

How much longer is Molson going to put up with this BS?? His beer business has been very sccessful but his hockey business is a total disaster. Torts or Babcock would be a better choice behind the bench. The fact that he indicates it is the player who need to motivate themselves is being said only because he has no idea on how to get that done and the three three guys are dead from the waist up.

When we let CJ go in Feb  he had a record of 9W - 6L - 5 OTL

If we go back to April DD has a record of 11W - 19L - 2 OTL - (Regular season)

They pulled the pin with CJ but we still have a Bantam coach behing the bench? 

HIs interviews are a strong indication of his coaching style. The play on the ice is a clear picture of his skill as a coach.

There is no motivation with this team. They are totally lost on the ice and are disconnected in so many ways. Shots taken and no second efforts by anyone. The defence has no idea where they should be and leaving Allen hung out to fend for himself. They can have as many 20min meetings they want it is not going to make a difference. They need new direction and it has to come from a new voice.

This is totally embarassing for this revered franchise. I am hoping the they connect MB to the Beach incident and he has to resign. There is no way that the guy in charge of player development knew nothing about that situation. :5155:

 

 

I agree with everything here, including the Beach reference.

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15 minutes ago, richard464 said:

As I said before I am not going to beat the drum on DD but I cannot help it. This guy is useless!!!!!

His post game interviews are brutal! He never answers the questions asked and when he does respond he has no idea what the hell he is saying. He keeps talking about a style of hockey the team needs to play. Really I think the team is playing his style right now. They fired CJ with a much better record than this guy and he is still there??? MB signed this guy and that was just another blunder by our illustrious manager. We should have hired Bouchard. Both these guys need to go NOW!!!! This team is a ship without a rudder and the rudder is totally lost! The other three guys in the $1,000 suits should be included in the pink slip process.

How much longer is Molson going to put up with this BS?? His beer business has been very sccessful but his hockey business is a total disaster. Torts or Babcock would be a better choice behind the bench. The fact that he indicates it is the player who need to motivate themselves is being said only because he has no idea on how to get that done and the three three guys are dead from the waist up.

When we let CJ go in Feb  he had a record of 9W - 6L - 5 OTL

If we go back to April DD has a record of 11W - 19L - 2 OTL - (Regular season)

They pulled the pin with CJ but we still have a Bantam coach behing the bench? 

HIs interviews are a strong indication of his coaching style. The play on the ice is a clear picture of his skill as a coach.

There is no motivation with this team. They are totally lost on the ice and are disconnected in so many ways. Shots taken and no second efforts by anyone. The defence has no idea where they should be and leaving Allen hung out to fend for himself. They can have as many 20min meetings they want it is not going to make a difference. They need new direction and it has to come from a new voice.

This is totally embarassing for this revered franchise. I am hoping the they connect MB to the Beach incident and he has to resign. There is no way that the guy in charge of player development knew nothing about that situation. :5155:

 

 

I agree with everything here, including the Beach reference.

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43 minutes ago, richard464 said:

As I said before I am not going to beat the drum on DD but I cannot help it. This guy is useless!!!!!

His post game interviews are brutal! He never answers the questions asked and when he does respond he has no idea what the hell he is saying. He keeps talking about a style of hockey the team needs to play. Really I think the team is playing his style right now. They fired CJ with a much better record than this guy and he is still there??? MB signed this guy and that was just another blunder by our illustrious manager. We should have hired Bouchard. Both these guys need to go NOW!!!! This team is a ship without a rudder and the rudder is totally lost! The other three guys in the $1,000 suits should be included in the pink slip process.

How much longer is Molson going to put up with this BS?? His beer business has been very sccessful but his hockey business is a total disaster. Torts or Babcock would be a better choice behind the bench. The fact that he indicates it is the player who need to motivate themselves is being said only because he has no idea on how to get that done and the three three guys are dead from the waist up.

When we let CJ go in Feb  he had a record of 9W - 6L - 5 OTL

If we go back to April DD has a record of 11W - 19L - 2 OTL - (Regular season)

They pulled the pin with CJ but we still have a Bantam coach behing the bench? 

HIs interviews are a strong indication of his coaching style. The play on the ice is a clear picture of his skill as a coach.

There is no motivation with this team. They are totally lost on the ice and are disconnected in so many ways. Shots taken and no second efforts by anyone. The defence has no idea where they should be and leaving Allen hung out to fend for himself. They can have as many 20min meetings they want it is not going to make a difference. They need new direction and it has to come from a new voice.

This is totally embarassing for this revered franchise. I am hoping the they connect MB to the Beach incident and he has to resign. There is no way that the guy in charge of player development knew nothing about that situation. :5155:

 

 

I won't go as far as to say Bergevin should be fired for Beach. I do think it's near-impossible he knew nothing about it, so it seems odd that he denies knowing anything now, but that's about as far as I'll go with that.

As for Ducharme, again I'll come back to

- Perreault's interview 4-5 games into the season where he said the team hadn't made any adjustments or change in strategy because the coaches were reinforcing to them that the problem was their effort level alone.

- Ducharme yesterday saying this was on the players and that it wasn't his job to motivate them every two days

He takes zero responsibility for his work as a coach and seems to be making no adjustments to anything, not the breakout, not the defensive coverage, not the PK, or the PP. Stu Cowan of The Gazette reported today that the Habs were bottom 3 in the league for standings, PK, PP, shots, and faceoffs. Not much going right here. It's not like under Julien where the team would be dominating games and even if they were losing they had a chance to right the ship. The team is losing now because it's playing badly. It's not on reffing or bad luck or anything else, it's that they just suck right now.

 

 

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This team lacks direction/accountability/a system. Don't see how you can stick it out with this coach unless you've already written off the season. And don't see how you can keep the GM and let him have his 3rd coach in less than a year. IMO they both need to go, and they can take their entire coaching staff with them.

I'd like to see Timmins or Madden Jr as GM and maybe if you get Madden, he can bring Bouchard back with him from California.

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Can anyone remember what the Ducharme extension was? How many years? Starting 2-8-0 looks pretty terrible, but I wonder if Ducharme stays around until we have a different manager come in and make some decisions. In my mind, Bergevin is done. Although I've already stopped watching and haven't given the Habs a dollar of money for about five years. The team just doesn't seem worth tuning in for this season. The playoff run was fun, but also... kind of exhausting. The way we went out to TB made the whole thing feel odd. Weird. I just don't see how we can become a regularly competitive team with the D Bergevin keeps putting together over and over and over. And I don't really believe that any of the prospects will step in and dominate. Norlinder, Brook, Guhle... maybe we see some meaningful results from these guys in 2-3 years. Maybe one of them turns into a 3-4 defender. Our goatlending pool also looks bleak. I don't really think Primeau is the goaltender of the future.

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21 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Odd reports because media said it was players-only, and Ducharme came out to do press while they were still meeting, but then after the fact, it turned out that Bergevin went in and lectured the team... doesn't bode well for the coach if the GM's going in there but has the coach leave. Kind of feels like he's not part of the plan.

Yeah, sounds to me like the GM went in basically said: do you like Ducharme? Because if you keep this crap up, he's gone. You have a chance to save his job. Im thinking they didnt.  

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