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2021-22 State of the Habs


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51 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Can anyone remember what the Ducharme extension was? How many years? Starting 2-8-0 looks pretty terrible, but I wonder if Ducharme stays around until we have a different manager come in and make some decisions. In my mind, Bergevin is done. Although I've already stopped watching and haven't given the Habs a dollar of money for about five years. The team just doesn't seem worth tuning in for this season. The playoff run was fun, but also... kind of exhausting. The way we went out to TB made the whole thing feel odd. Weird. I just don't see how we can become a regularly competitive team with the D Bergevin keeps putting together over and over and over. And I don't really believe that any of the prospects will step in and dominate. Norlinder, Brook, Guhle... maybe we see some meaningful results from these guys in 2-3 years. Maybe one of them turns into a 3-4 defender. Our goatlending pool also looks bleak. I don't really think Primeau is the goaltender of the future.

3 years starting this year. 

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Adapted from a post by Habs Chronicle on twitter... Habs league-ranking in the following categories (I've adjusted them to keep them updated with other teams' results)

- Overall: 30th

- Goal differential: 30th

- Goals For: 29th

- Goals Against: 29th

- Shots per Game: 31st

- PP: 30th

- PK: 30th

- PK + PP: 31st

- Faceoffs: 32nd

- Number of penalties taken: 32nd

 

By definition, an average team will have a PK percentage + PP percentage that is around 100%. A good team will be 5-10% above this, a bad team will be 5-10% below this. The Habs' PP is at 11% and the PK at a whoppingly bad 65%. That's 76% combined special teams success rate, which is almost a full 25% below average. That's just insanely weak. We always say that special teams is one thing that coaching can actually influence, as a lot of it is zone entry schema and set plays around the O zone (or stopping those things). It's something you can design and practice. If that's the case, coaching is failing. We also say a coach can play a role in discipline and making sure his players are moving their feet to not take penalties and that guys who aren't playing disciplined hockey get sent a message. Well, the Habs have taken more penalties than any other team in the league. So another strike on Ducharme and company. Maybe faceoffs are something you can coach or at least make it so you have guys there who know how to take them... once again, last in the league. Suzuki's at 42%, Paquette 28%, Brooks 20%. Our top center is Dvorak and he' only at 51%.

So I'm curious to know from anyone, what's one reason why we shouldn't fire Ducharme and Bergevin? I don't want to hear about what Molson will or won't do. I want to know what arguments someone would like to make to defend Ducharme and Bergevin and explain why they should still have jobs tomorrow.

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5 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Adapted from a post by Habs Chronicle on twitter... Habs league-ranking in the following categories (I've adjusted them to keep them updated with other teams' results)

- Overall: 30th

- Goal differential: 30th

- Goals For: 29th

- Goals Against: 29th

- Shots per Game: 31st

- PP: 30th

- PK: 30th

- PK + PP: 31st

- Faceoffs: 32nd

- Number of penalties taken: 32nd

 

By definition, an average team will have a PK percentage + PP percentage that is around 100%. A good team will be 5-10% above this, a bad team will be 5-10% below this. The Habs' PP is at 11% and the PK at a whoppingly bad 65%. That's 76% combined special teams success rate, which is almost a full 25% below average. That's just insanely weak. We always say that special teams is one thing that coaching can actually influence, as a lot of it is zone entry schema and set plays around the O zone (or stopping those things). It's something you can design and practice. If that's the case, coaching is failing. We also say a coach can play a role in discipline and making sure his players are moving their feet to not take penalties and that guys who aren't playing disciplined hockey get sent a message. Well, the Habs have taken more penalties than any other team in the league. So another strike on Ducharme and company. Maybe faceoffs are something you can coach or at least make it so you have guys there who know how to take them... once again, last in the league. Suzuki's at 42%, Paquette 28%, Brooks 20%. Our top center is Dvorak and he' only at 51%.

So I'm curious to know from anyone, what's one reason why we shouldn't fire Ducharme and Bergevin? I don't want to hear about what Molson will or won't do. I want to know what arguments someone would like to make to defend Ducharme and Bergevin and explain why they should still have jobs tomorrow.

I don't know about DD either but on MB i can defend him by saying I rarely disagree with a move he makes and even when I do I think it's reasonable. The results have been mixed and extreme but I judge him on what he does and to some extent what he doesn't do and for the most part I like it

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56 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Adapted from a post by Habs Chronicle on twitter... Habs league-ranking in the following categories (I've adjusted them to keep them updated with other teams' results)

- Overall: 30th

- Goal differential: 30th

- Goals For: 29th

- Goals Against: 29th

- Shots per Game: 31st

- PP: 30th

- PK: 30th

- PK + PP: 31st

- Faceoffs: 32nd

- Number of penalties taken: 32nd

 

By definition, an average team will have a PK percentage + PP percentage that is around 100%. A good team will be 5-10% above this, a bad team will be 5-10% below this. The Habs' PP is at 11% and the PK at a whoppingly bad 65%. That's 76% combined special teams success rate, which is almost a full 25% below average. That's just insanely weak. We always say that special teams is one thing that coaching can actually influence, as a lot of it is zone entry schema and set plays around the O zone (or stopping those things). It's something you can design and practice. If that's the case, coaching is failing. We also say a coach can play a role in discipline and making sure his players are moving their feet to not take penalties and that guys who aren't playing disciplined hockey get sent a message. Well, the Habs have taken more penalties than any other team in the league. So another strike on Ducharme and company. Maybe faceoffs are something you can coach or at least make it so you have guys there who know how to take them... once again, last in the league. Suzuki's at 42%, Paquette 28%, Brooks 20%. Our top center is Dvorak and he' only at 51%.

So I'm curious to know from anyone, what's one reason why we shouldn't fire Ducharme and Bergevin? I don't want to hear about what Molson will or won't do. I want to know what arguments someone would like to make to defend Ducharme and Bergevin and explain why they should still have jobs tomorrow.

I knew we were bad (I expected it) but these stats make us unbelievably horrid, laughable really.

my reason to keep them is to keep being bad and use the year really searching and evaluating what we have both on and off the ice; who’s available to coach and gm for our future.

 

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34 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Well, MB did bring in more French-Canadians.:ph34r:

 

I'll show myself out......

- Savard: not very good so far. Sporting a 47% Corsi. Grant it, he's been better since being separated from Chiarot (who is now weighing down Jeff Petry instead), but Savard is clearly not an answer for the top 4.

- Perreault: one good game and a lot of bad ones. He's 3rd-worset on the team for Corsi.

- Paquette: bad penalties, bad at faceoffs, no offence

- Montembeault: AHL-level goaltending thus far

Honestly not sure I would keep any of these players on the team if I had the option of cutting them without absorbing their cap hits.

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24 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I don't know about DD either but on MB i can defend him by saying I rarely disagree with a move he makes and even when I do I think it's reasonable. The results have been mixed and extreme but I judge him on what he does and to some extent what he doesn't do and for the most part I like it

I don't mind some of the trades he's made. But there are things he's done that make no sense, particularly on D. Look at his history here... Murray, Bouillon, Schlemko, Alzner, Drewiske, Davidson, Nesterov, Chiarot, Edmundson, Savard. He has continuously acquired slower poorly-skilled D men and they really haven't panned out that well. Then he's gone after another category of guys like Kaberle, Gonchar, Streit 2.0, etc. who had skill but were way too far behind the 8-ball when they got here. He's also had a couple of reaches for players like Tinordi and McCarron where he seems to have drafted them purely because of a fetish for size, with Timmins suggesting in his interviews that those players weren't his own personal preference for those choices and that the GM overruled him. Bergevin held onto Therrien for too long. He held onto Lefebvre for too long. He lost Bouchard for unclear reasons. He's dealt a bunch of guys like Subban, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Eller, etc. after contributing to their values falling first. He's built a team around Weber and Price without realizing they were past prime and failing to get return on those players when he could. And frankly, what he hasn't done is also a problem... he's had 12 years and hasn't really addressed the center position. Last year, he finally had three guys in Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, and Danault who looked like they could grow into making that a strength for the team albeit without much organizational depth behind them. But he lost 2 of the 3 and only replaced 1 and still lacks organizational depth down the middle. Likewise, how long will we go without having more than one puck-moving top 4 D man on the team? He inherited Subban and Markov and acquired Petry but lost the first two without finding a replacement puck mover for either of them (again his Plan A to replace Markov was Mark Streit).

So while some of his moves were great (Petry acquisition, dealing Weise and Fleischmann for Danault +, the Pacioretty trade, etc.), he's made  a fair share of bad moves too and as I've said, he really hasn't had a vision to improve the team and generate a real Cup window where we're in contention for a few years in a row.

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32 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

I knew we were bad (I expected it) but these stats make us unbelievably horrid, laughable really.

my reason to keep them is to keep being bad and use the year really searching and evaluating what we have both on and off the ice; who’s available to coach and gm for our future.

 

I gave my list of who I thought would be considered. Given the language requirements, there aren't too many candidates. If you can get the guys you want now, why bother waiting? I'm looking at the list of guys who are currently coaches and GMs and I don't see anyone who is 1. Francophone, 2. Likely to be fired/available next off-season, and 3. someone I'd actually want to hire. Brisebois isn't going anywhere from Tampa. Dont' want Vigneault back, even if he's fired in Philly. So anyone we want later is probably someone you can go after now too... at worst, I'd try to dump Bergevin, make Timmins interim GM, and at least get the poison out of the organization.

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23 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

- Savard: not very good so far. Sporting a 47% Corsi. Grant it, he's been better since being separated from Chiarot (who is now weighing down Jeff Petry instead), but Savard is clearly not an answer for the top 4.

- Perreault: one good game and a lot of bad ones. He's 3rd-worset on the team for Corsi.

- Paquette: bad penalties, bad at faceoffs, no offence

- Montembeault: AHL-level goaltending thus far

Honestly not sure I would keep any of these players on the team if I had the option of cutting them without absorbing their cap hits.

Except for Savard, one and done, I believe.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Adapted from a post by Habs Chronicle on twitter... Habs league-ranking in the following categories (I've adjusted them to keep them updated with other teams' results)

- Overall: 30th

- Goal differential: 30th

- Goals For: 29th

- Goals Against: 29th

- Shots per Game: 31st

- PP: 30th

- PK: 30th

- PK + PP: 31st

- Faceoffs: 32nd

- Number of penalties taken: 32nd

 

By definition, an average team will have a PK percentage + PP percentage that is around 100%. A good team will be 5-10% above this, a bad team will be 5-10% below this. The Habs' PP is at 11% and the PK at a whoppingly bad 65%. That's 76% combined special teams success rate, which is almost a full 25% below average. That's just insanely weak. We always say that special teams is one thing that coaching can actually influence, as a lot of it is zone entry schema and set plays around the O zone (or stopping those things). It's something you can design and practice. If that's the case, coaching is failing. We also say a coach can play a role in discipline and making sure his players are moving their feet to not take penalties and that guys who aren't playing disciplined hockey get sent a message. Well, the Habs have taken more penalties than any other team in the league. So another strike on Ducharme and company. Maybe faceoffs are something you can coach or at least make it so you have guys there who know how to take them... once again, last in the league. Suzuki's at 42%, Paquette 28%, Brooks 20%. Our top center is Dvorak and he' only at 51%.

So I'm curious to know from anyone, what's one reason why we shouldn't fire Ducharme and Bergevin? I don't want to hear about what Molson will or won't do. I want to know what arguments someone would like to make to defend Ducharme and Bergevin and explain why they should still have jobs tomorrow.

I didn't think that one team could be near the top in so many statistical categories.  Bravo Habs. 

And, why do people want to keep bergebin?

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Eastern                   GP    W      L      OTL      Pts 

 

Florida                      9      8       0       1           17

Carolina                   8      8        0      0           16

Washington              8      5       0       3           13

NY Rangers             8      5       2       1           11

Buffalo                     8      5        2      1           11

Columbus                8      5        3       0          10

Detroit                      9      4       3       2           10

Philadelphia             7      4       2       1             9

Toronto                    9       4       4       1            9

New Jersey              7      4       2        1            9

Tampa Bay               8      4       3        1            9

Pittsburg                  8      3        3       2            8

NY Islanders            7       3       2       2            8

Boston                     7       4       3        0           8

Ottawa                     7      3       4        0            6

 
 
 

If Playoffs started today, Teams in bold, are in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


Montreal                  10       2       8        0           4

 

We don't seem to be trending anywhere.................4 pts. Ahead of only Chicago 2 pts. & Arizona 0 pts. league wide. Last in our conference.

Goal differential  -15  Passed by only Chicago -20 & Arizona -26

We have more losses, than most teams have games played.

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Despite 6 more losses than wins we are 1-1 against San Jose and probably deserve one more win somewhere. The week ahead and so the month ahead will be all we need to evaluate any hope in the future. We can resolve some of the issues by winning against the teams currently 1-0 against us and making sure we take care of the Red Wings, We need a 4-1 homestand to say the least.  The 0-5 start has put us in a precarious position and the LA game showed some severe problems with the effort being put forth. If the hockey is bad in November I expect see some changes. Calling up Primeau, and Poehling would be a good start and using some of our forwards for draft picks wouldn't hurt either. The current injury situation is making a bad situation much worse. I would keep Ducharme around for this season as I am not sure how he could have  predicted the iniuries and issues  the team has faced this year.

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MB has had enough time here, at the end of the day we are no further ahead than we were when he got here and we may even be worse off! even in the lean years the team tried a lot harder than they are now! our team is in turmoil right now! we have a GM who is playing games about weather or not he is staying which is not helping with stability one bit! a rookie coach who does not have the tools in his bag to deal with what we are going through! a defence that is built wrong with spare parts! and as good as he has been in the past lets not forget Petry was a castoff form another team! a forward group that looks solid on paper but is not capable of showing what they have because they don't get the breakouts they need from the D. Not having Price and Webber was always going to hurt but not this much! this is a poorly run team with lots of good parts that are not in the right positions and the fact that we still don't have the D men we need after all these years shows what a failure MB has been, he has made many good moves but never really ever fixed any of our main issues. We still need a #1 center we still need some elite D men and just for once a truly savvy modern thinking coach would be nice! The days of building a subpar team and riding on all world goaltending are over that ship has sailed even if he comes back it won't change a thing we will still be missing all the parts needed to win it all,

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53 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Cedric Paquette will have a hearing for his boarding penalty yesterday. 

Kind of surprising with all the dirty hits they've let slide in this League without blinking an eye. I didn't even think he deserved the game misconduct. If the guy doesn't turn at the last second, it's nothing but a clean solid hit IMO.

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5 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Kind of surprising with all the dirty hits they've let slide in this League without blinking an eye. I didn't even think he deserved the game misconduct. If the guy doesn't turn at the last second, it's nothing but a clean solid hit IMO.

It wasn't the hit itself but the distance traveled to make the hit. He came flying in from the blue line just to throw the hit. Plus the onus is on the checking player to not hit from behind. 9 times out of 10 that penalty is called even if the player being checked turns at the last second. It was a violent and illegal check from behind made worse because of the distance traveled. I usually don't agree with the reffing but in this case Pacquette should have tried to minimize the contact. He knew he was going to have a player in a vulnerable position so he should have let up to make sure he didn't injure Zegras. It is a penalty I would want to see called if it was Caufield in that position.

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Just now, campabee82 said:

It wasn't the hit itself but the distance traveled to make the hit. He came flying in from the blue line just to throw the hit. Plus the onus is on the checking player to not hit from behind. 9 times out of 10 that penalty is called even if the player being checked turns at the last second. It was a violent and illegal check from behind made worse because of the distance traveled. I usually don't agree with the reffing but in this case Pacquette should have tried to minimize the contact. He knew he was going to have a player in a vulnerable position so he should have let up to make sure he didn't injure Zegras. It is a penalty I would want to see called if it was Caufield in that position.

The call on the ice was boarding and not charging, and i agree it deserved a penalty, which he did indeed receive. IMO the game misconduct was a stretch at best compared to what i've seen delivered over and over in this League in the same situation with little to no repercussions. Paquette is a plug, so an expendable example to be made of by the League as usual. Double standards stink to high hell in the NHL.

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1 minute ago, campabee82 said:

Who was not surprised to wake up and see that MB was still the GM this morning? :7072:

 

I for one had no illusions that MB would be at the helm. I think he is here until the end of the season, no matter how bad we do.

The days not over yet. I still expect one or both to get fired today. Probably DD.

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13 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

The call on the ice was boarding and not charging, and i agree it deserved a penalty, which he did indeed receive. IMO the game misconduct was a stretch at best compared to what i've seen delivered over and over in this League in the same situation with little to no repercussions. Paquette is a plug, so an expendable example to be made of by the League as usual. Double standards stink to high hell in the NHL.

I see what you are saying, yeah the game misconduct was a reaction to the injure which was a result of him hitting his head on the ice not the actual check. Having said that I fully expect the league to suspend Pacquette for 2 games just cause he is a Habs player.

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13 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

 

Canadiens have assigned Cole Caufield to the Laval Rocket and recalled Michael Pezzetta, in addition to placing Mathieu Perreault on the injured reserve list.

 

The PK will get a work out

 

Im not opposed to sending CC to laval but, IMHO he was never a problem.  You send a guy down if a) he needs to work on things or b) you have a better option to take his place.  we clearly dont have the latter.  Will it help his development? I dunno.  I havent seen anything from him that makes me think he isnt an NHl caliber player already.   

Im not sure why we are playing a future 1st line winger 10 minutes a game with centres like Perreault, Brooks and Pacquette and then are surprised he hasnt been lighting things up. lol.


The PK is in desperate need of a fix.  I think Weber and Price hid a lot of issues on it but without them... its going to be a long year unless these coaches figure something out & I dont have high hopes... 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The PK is in desperate need of a fix. 

My comment about the PK will get a workout was in reference to Pezzetta being called up . 

I can only guess CC is being sent down to get his confidence back but then you cant send everyone down so ...

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34 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Im not opposed to sending CC to laval but, IMHO he was never a problem.  You send a guy down if a) he needs to work on things or b) you have a better option to take his place.  we clearly dont have the latter.  Will it help his development? I dunno.  I havent seen anything from him that makes me think he isnt an NHl caliber player already.   

Im not sure why we are playing a future 1st line winger 10 minutes a game with centres like Perreault, Brooks and Pacquette and then are surprised he hasnt been lighting things up. lol.


The PK is in desperate need of a fix.  I think Weber and Price hid a lot of issues on it but without them... its going to be a long year unless these coaches figure something out & I dont have high hopes... 

 

 

I agree. I hope sending him down helps but in all honestly he's just a talented nhler who is slumping along with an entire team who is slumping/underachieving. 

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