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Montreal doesnt match Hurricanes Offer Sheet to KK


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^^ And just to add to what I wrote above, I'd agree with the statement that Dvorak is an underrated player in the league. That is almost certainly a by-product of his playing in a terrible hockey market. So we can agree that not enough people are talking about what Dvorak does well. But his being underrated doesn't change what the statistics say, it doesn't change what his ceiling is likely to be, and it doesn't change how other players with similar stats have fared later in their careers.

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Habs management had 3 years to evaluate this kid, if they felt he was going to break out anytime in the near future I am sure they would have signed the contact. 

This is an extremely high risk for Carolina. There is potential for reward but still a high very high risk option. 

I am a little confused as to why Dorvak can't get better?? He is 25 not 35.

He is coming to a hockey market, his point totals have increased each season. He was on pace for 21 goals two seasons ago, 24 goals this past season...

He is certainly going to get better wingers, Caufield, Anderson, Toffoli, Gallagher, Hoffman, Droiun, Lekonen  anyone is a huge upgrade over guys like Lawson Krause, Tyler Pitlick, connor garland 

I keep hearing 3rd line center, I think he is good enough to be a fringe top line center with the huge upgrade in  wingers like he will have here, certainly a number 2. 

Time will tell, but I actually think he will be a hige upgrade over KK, certainly in the short term, next couple of years. His skating alone make him much much better that KK righ now.  Not sure how that plays out in 3 or 4 years. But this is a big upgrade right now over the next 2 or 3 seasons. 

 

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 Wouldn't it be too rich if Bergevin actually bamboozled  Carolina into an OS for KK because he knew that he was asking too much in return during their trade talks ? ...If Bergevin was actively offering  KK that means he wasn't that high on keeping him and the experiment to get a glimpse of KK's future progress was over ....if Carolina was to keep the OS money lower they would be risking that Bergevin would  match just as in the Aho offer ...nobody has even suggested this but about the only thing Bergevin said was that the Canes were well within their rights as per league rules to OS KK and after that said nothing and worked the phone for a week ..hmmmm...maybe this is what Bergevin wanted all along  to force Carolina into giving up very tradeable draft picks to go after a centre of he considered of more value ....just sayin' 

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Not sure where you got the stats that he plays better with Garland who was only there 3 years Dvorak has been very consistent even in the years Garland was not on the team. as for his ice time he started getting PP time when it was discovered he could score on the PP not a bad issue to have! this added to his ice time as he also kills penalties hmm sounds like a good payer to have. another thing Dano and KK combined scored 10 goals last season Dvorak alone scored 17 also a nice thing to have. As for advanced stats well Perty is a Dman and Dvorak is a center so I don't see how a player who has to worry about one partner and another player who has to worry about two partners can be measured with the same system but then again I just view advanced stats as one of many tools used to figure out if a player is good or not. Playing on a horrible team sucks it literally sucks the life right out of your game! coming to a town where hockey is everything and the team has a shot at the playoffs will always be a boost to a player how can it not? the play on the ice will tell the tale over  the long haul.

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The more and more I think about it, I'm not displeased with the outcome. I guess I've just accepted it. My hope is that Dvorak comes here and really performs well. He's only 25 and maybe there's still some improvement to come. We're better than Arizona, so maybe just being here will help boost those offensive numbers a little!

As for Kotkaniemi... I really appreciate his time with the organization, but I do hope he does miserably in Carolina. :lol:

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

First off, I'll agree with others here who think Dvorak will have a good season here next year. But not sure that his playing on a horrible team means he'll necessarily do better here. A few reasons why:

1. He got 18.5 minutes of ice time per game in Arizona including power play time. That's a decent amount of ice time. To put that in perspective, our top forwards for ice time last year were Suzuki at 18 minutes, Toffoli at 17.5, then Danault at under 17. Kotkaniemi had under 15. So Dvorak would have had more ice time than anyone we had on our roster last year in order to hit the point totals he did. In terms of points produced per ice time at ES, he simply wasn't very good. So I don't think it's a given that he would automatically flourish on a better team. He was getting more opportunity in Arizona and he wouldn't necessarily get the same thing on a deeper roster. If he suddenly got 16.5 minutes, as Danault was getting here, then his point totals would likely drop correspondingly. What I think will save Dvorak next year is that we have a complete lack of depth at center now. I don't see Ducharme giving big minutes to Evans or Poehling, so Dvorak will likely maintain a solid 18+ minutes a night next year, maybe even more. For that reason, I think he'll have a good year next year, but not sure it will hold up if there's better competition at center later on in his contract.

 

 

While Dvorak did have more TOI last year his PP time and 5 on 5 time actually dropped compared to the year before as 12% of that time came on the PK and his time on the PP dropped by 25% from the year before.. So the Yotes obviously saw his value on the PK and adjusted his time accordingly. This is most likely due to his faceoff skills. While we are always looking for players to fill the PK and may need him to be a part of a PK pairing until Byron gets back. I see this as another positive. We already have Lehkonen, Armia, Suzuki, Toffoli, Caufield and Evans in those roles. Despite the significant increase of time on the PK he had his highest ppg 0.55. So it looks like he is taking on more responsibility and still improving his scoring.  I would suggest that is very good.

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3 hours ago, campabee82 said:

There's the problem, you keep comparing Danault to Dvorak but no one ever thought of Danault as more than a 3rd line center. He played 1st line as a result of our lack of depth up the middle and he left because he knew NS and JK were going to be better options. If Dvorak is a slightly more offensive Danault that still only makes him a 3C with the ability to play 2C in a pinch. The problem is we need someone who is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade on Danault which JK was more likely to be. I understand the reason for not matching cause JK right now is not a 6 Mil a year player (He is my favorite player right now) however Dvorak will never be a 6 mil player. That's the issue here, we went 20+ years waiting for a 1C and more like 30 years waiting for 2 top 6 centers, why give up on achieving that when you potentially have a 1a and 1b right in front of you and all it would cost is 1 overpaid year.

I agree that Danault is the wrong comparison. We basically 3-way traded Kotkaneimi for Dvorak, so those are the comparable pieces.
What I’ve never understood is where Kotkaneimi’s “high ceiling” projections came from. Like I remember when we drafted him and he came over hearing the media throw out comparisons like Kopitar, THN had his comparable as Jeff Carter. But those are just random names thrown out there, what basis of comparison were used? I haven’t seen any Kopitar or Carter’ like. Many draft eligibles ceilings are projected and given juicy comparisons. Very rarely are the accurate. For example, I was reading up on Joel Armia’s draft profile on THW. He was pegged as a pure goal scorer, possibly the best in the draft, a sniper. Ranked 13th by ISS, and funny enough, also had Jeff Carter as his best case comparison. I like Armia a lot, but clearly he’s no Jeff Carter. He does have a great shot though, but probably nowhere near the best pure goal scorer from his draft class. That doesn’t make him bad or a bust. It does highlight how little these “way too early” projection and comparisons are actually worth. We’ve seen plenty of Kotkaneimi over the last few years, and although he has looked good at times, I haven’t seen anything from him that suggests he will ever meet those early projections about what his ceiling might be. At this point I think it’s actually a safer bet that he caps out somewhere around where Armia is. But what do I know, he could surprise, but if he does it would be just that, a surprise. 
Again, to be clear, I’m not hating on Kotkaneimi, I think he will develop into a good middle 6 forward and have a long, productive career. I just don’t understand where or what was being looked at when his future was being projected that ever had anyone seeing a #1 center, and nor do I care. Those predictions were made when he was a 17 year old kid, playing in a league far away (and I’m pretty sure on LW a lot of the time) after only seeing him a handful of times. So I’m not too concerned about his potential ceiling, from once upon a time. What matters is how he projects now. And that goes for anyone, pre draft projections go out the window pretty quickly once the draft is done and over with.

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1 hour ago, caperns61 said:

I keep hearing 3rd line center, I think he is good enough to be a fringe top line center with the huge upgrade in  wingers like he will have here, certainly a number 2. 

More importantly, who even cares? 2nd line center, 3rd line center? There’s zero difference between the quality of wingers we have for either of those lines. Assumedly Suzuki and Caufield are our “top line” but after that you got Toffoli, Gallagher, Drouin, Hoffman and Anderson. Lol pick your poison. Number them what you want, our top 9 is pretty balanced. What used to be our 3rd line is now our 4th, with some nice additions to it as well that will fight over playing time.

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2 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Habs management had 3 years to evaluate this kid, if they felt he was going to break out anytime in the near future I am sure they would have signed the contact. 

My feeling too.  Obviously there's info we dont know about  but just based on what we do know, not matching means they likely dont think he'll live up to that contract even in the next 2-3 years.  

 

1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

 If Bergevin was actively offering  KK that means he wasn't that high on keeping him and the experiment to get a glimpse of KK's future progress was over ....

There hasnt been a single report that Bergevin was shopping or offering JK.  Every indication is that Carolina called him & asked.  Every player gets phone calls - im sure edmonton has had offers for McDavid even, but that doesnt mean they've ever shopped him. 

I think the team was fine with keeping JK but not when the price just obliterated our salary cap structure. 

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

The more and more I think about it, I'm not displeased with the outcome. I guess I've just accepted it.

We talked at length about how we were both flip flopping. To be honest, the last 2 days before the deadline I actually felt like we should let him walk. Ive accepted it too & I am ok with it. 

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

As for Kotkaniemi... I really appreciate his time with the organization, but I do hope he does miserably in Carolina. :lol:

Haha. same.  Im not even gonna finish the drawing of him now!! :P

1 hour ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

More importantly, who even cares? 2nd line center, 3rd line center? There’s zero difference between the quality of wingers we have for either of those lines. Assumedly Suzuki and Caufield are our “top line” but after that you got Toffoli, Gallagher, Drouin, Hoffman and Anderson. Lol pick your poison. Number them what you want, our top 9 is pretty balanced. What used to be our 3rd line is now our 4th, with some nice additions to it as well that will fight over playing time.

This.   I think with Suzuki and Dvorak we have to very nice pieces.  Im a little worried if Jake Evans is our #3 but honestly Poehling looked better than JK if you compare their last 2 AHL stints so maybe he's the missing piece. 

Still worried about our defense though because i am sure they will play Chairot-Savard as our second pair & thats a disaster waiting to happen imho - but i hope im wrong. 

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11 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

- If the Canes had tried to trade straight up for a player like Kotkaniemi, they would have had to give up more than a (late) 1st and a 3rd. Look around the league at other players from his draft year +/- a year... Bouchard, Wahlstrom, Zegras, Dobson, Thomas, etc. most of whom are less established than JK and tell me whether those teams are giving those players up for similar compensation. The price they paid was not high. And yes, they are paying for potential here. If JK was already a 30-goal scorer, they'd have paid way more, but you want to find elite top 6 centers, you have to gamble a bit on them as picks or prospects. Very hard to get one as a bargain.

 I actually think Dvorak should have a good season this year, probably his best as a pro. And after that, I think he'll be a serviceable 3C (and 2C in a pinch). I just don't expect him to score more than 15-20 goals per season or get more than 40-50 points per year on average. It doesn't mean he'll drop out of the NHL. He may end up being better than JK, but JK has the higher ceiling here.

I believe the price Carolina paid was high - they paid $6.1M for a current $2.5M bridge player plus gave up a first and a third. So they also gave up an Armia type player for the $3.6M salary difference, with the risk that KK may not be worth the arbitration $5.1M salary the following year.  Carolina did gamble on trying to project KK as an elite top 6 centre, and so did we in drafting him 3rd overall. I agree on center gambling or trying to pick one up as a bargain - it's a very hard task and something has to give - we lucked out on Suzuki. We can only hope that Riley Kidney, Oliver Kapanen ascend and that's gonna take time. If we want a bonafide 2C should Dvorak not rise up, Bergevin will get criticized for overpaying with prospects, draft picks plus a roster player of significance.  

Bouchard, Wahlstrom, Zegras, Dobson are simply prospects with 34% to 74% probabilities of them making and sticking with an NHL roster - All GM's will trade prospects for proven players at some point. So yes I would expect those teams could very well trade a slower progressing first rounder for a future first rounder, a future third and an Armia type roster player. I am at a degree of odds with your similar compensation comment. We are not the only ones that trade a prospect (McDonagh, Sergachev) for a more proven player at the time (Gomez, Drouin). Nolan Patrick - ceiling? for Cody Glass? Seth Jones and worse picks vs. Adam Boqvist (ceiling?) and better picks.

KK may have the higher ceiling and you are entitled to that risk assessment. My eyes tell me that at this point KK is a clumsy skater, has not developed an NHL shot and has had 3 seasons to show a degree of higher progression factoring in that he is still young. The 34% to 74% first round draft probability statistics of making it, appear to indicate that he will go the route of Galchenyuk, ,  Mittelstadt, Rasmussen, Glass, Domi, etc. I don't share the sentiments that KK will dramatically ascend. 

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2 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Habs management had 3 years to evaluate this kid, if they felt he was going to break out anytime in the near future I am sure they would have signed the contact. 

This is an extremely high risk for Carolina. There is potential for reward but still a high very high risk option. 

I am a little confused as to why Dorvak can't get better?? He is 25 not 35.

He is coming to a hockey market, his point totals have increased each season. He was on pace for 21 goals two seasons ago, 24 goals this past season...

He is certainly going to get better wingers, Caufield, Anderson, Toffoli, Gallagher, Hoffman, Droiun, Lekonen  anyone is a huge upgrade over guys like Lawson Krause, Tyler Pitlick, connor garland 

I keep hearing 3rd line center, I think he is good enough to be a fringe top line center with the huge upgrade in  wingers like he will have here, certainly a number 2. 

Time will tell, but I actually think he will be a hige upgrade over KK, certainly in the short term, next couple of years. His skating alone make him much much better that KK righ now.  Not sure how that plays out in 3 or 4 years. But this is a big upgrade right now over the next 2 or 3 seasons. 

 

The Habs likely didn't think the odds of Kotkaniemi being a star were high but it doesn't mean they think it's 0. It just means they were happier going with the more certain asset and higher floor (Dvorak) than the player with the higher ceiling (Kotkaniemi). I don't think his being in the NHL for 3 years (especially having broken in at age 18 and being young for his draft year) means they don't think he'll ever be successful. You look at Zdeno Chara and there's a guy the Islanders traded after 4 seasons in the NHL because they didn't think he'd be that valuable, and he went on to be a star D man. You look at Aleksander Barkov and he was very average through his first two seasons (125 games) and then he took off thereafter. Ottawa dealt Zabinejad after 4 seasons and a peak of 21 goals and 51 points, and he's put up a bunch of 70+ point seasons in NY. Anaheim let Shea Theodore go after just two years, and he's now one of the top D men in the league. Teuvo Teraveinen was dealt by the Hawks after one and a half seasons at age 21 and he went on to put up three consecutive 60+ point seasons with Carolina. In general, there is still hope that a 21 year-old hasn't hit his peak yet.

With a 25-26 year-old it's possible there will be an improvement in performance, but history shows it's less likely. There are also a fair number of players who peaked early in their 20's who got worse as they hit the 2nd half of their 20s. So the bottom line remains the same for me, which is what you alluded to as well: Dvorak is the safer bet and there is certainly a risk that Kotkaniemi doesn't develop into a top 6 player, but his ceiling is higher. Which player is more likely to put up multiple 60+ point seasons in their career? I'd say it's Kotkaniemi. Which player is more likely to hit 70 points ever? I'd say it's Kotkaniemi. Which player is more likely to be playing a top 6 role with their new team in 5-7 years? Kotkaniemi again. Dvorak will be a dependable two-way player here, but his chances at a high upside are lower.

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I totally agree with the posts regarding risk. We may have paid 3 or 4 million to continue the evaluation for another year or two, but Bergevin and  KK would have been under pressure to show results. At 6 million we reach a point where the cost becomes inhibitive and there are better places to spend your money. I wouldn't mind being a car salesman in Carolina. If Mr. Waddell's dealership is watching they may have a special offer for him. Yes we' ll take your trade in and sure it looks like a $20 000 volkswagen but there is no need to test drive, your right it's a Lamborghini.:ph34r:

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

With a 25-26 year-old it's possible there will be an improvement in performance, but history shows it's less likely.  Which player is more likely to put up multiple 60+ point seasons in their career? I'd say it's Kotkaniemi. Which player is more likely to hit 70 points ever? I'd say it's Kotkaniemi. Which player is more likely to be playing a top 6 role with their new team in 5-7 years? Kotkaniemi again. Dvorak will be a dependable two-way player here, but his chances at a high upside are lower.

I’m not so sure about history and odds limiting DVO’s upside ceiling. At 25-26 he’s coming into his peak years. Look at the age 25-26 stats for Blake Wheeler, Brad Marchand, Hendrk Sedin, Mark Stone, Yanni Gourde, Jon Marchessault, Alfredsson, Ray Whitney. I would name Martin St. Louis too but he was a function of limited ice time because he was too small. There’s far more age 21 high draft pick projected high ceiling burnouts. 
Someone in Zona thought DVO has upside as not too many players come off an entry level contract and sign a 6 year $4.45m contract. 
I don’t drink the koolaid as an overzealous fan, but I’m just staying objective vs critical. 
Max Domi flourished in his first year here from the Desert Wasteland- I expect DVO to play well and have more maturity than Domi to sustain a high level of performance. I don’t expect elite Center but he can creep into the 2C role. 

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7 minutes ago, claremont said:

I’m not so sure about history and odds limiting DVO’s upside ceiling. At 25-26 he’s coming into his peak years. Look at the age 25-26 stats for Blake Wheeler, Brad Marchand, Hendrk Sedin, Mark Stone, Yanni Gourde, Jon Marchessault, Alfredsson, Ray Whitney. I would name Martin St. Louis too but he was a function of limited ice time because he was too small. There’s far more age 21 high draft pick projected high ceiling burnouts. 
Someone in Zona thought DVO has upside as not too many players come off an entry level contract and sign a 6 year $4.45m contract. 
I don’t drink the koolaid as an overzealous fan, but I’m just staying objective vs critical. 
Max Domi flourished in his first year here from the Desert Wasteland- I expect DVO to play well and have more maturity than Domi to sustain a high level of performance. I don’t expect elite Center but he can creep into the 2C role. 

You just set up a perfect example of why we shouldn't expect Dvorak to be a top 6 center. Domi came in from Arizona and put up a massive 72 points in his first season here. That was awesome and unexpected but what happened in his second season? He reverted back to his more sensible 40ish points, lots of people have brought up that Dvorak had put up 2 100+ point seasons in London but that really doesn't mean anything. Domi had a 100+ point year there as well and Drouin had 2 100+ point seasons in the Q. I don't think it is realistic to expect a 25 year old player to come here and put up multiple 50+ seasons when his career average is only 34.75 points per season (I omitted his 20 game season cause that was an outlier). I think he will do exactly what Domi did, he will come in and have a great year then regress back to his normal 35-40 point self. It's not a knock on Dvorak cause he is still a good player but to expect more doesn't seem realistic, he has not proved he can put up any more than that and has been pretty consistent in those numbers over his career even with more offensive guys like Garland, Hall and Kessel. The way MB and KK described the decision to move on from KK both seem to indicate that there is a possibility for a return to Montreal. MB said he would to have loved to keep KK and KK's heartfelt goodbye seems to say he wanted to stay as well. They both seem to realize that this was just and unfortunate business decision from both sides that couldn't line up. I am not saying that we will ever see KK in a Habs jersey again but just that both sides seem to understand where the other side stood.

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12 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Considering how all of this Kotkaneimi stuff went down, have we gone too far with Romanov to start him in Laval this season. I’d really like to see that before it’s too late. Do we have enough depth to fill out our D without having to rush Romanov or Norlinder in too quick? 

According to MB (by the way I don't totally disagree with him here) the onus is on the player not the organization for their development. The NHL is not a development league, if the player shows he can and should be on the roster he will be there. There is no sense in sending players to the AHL if they can make the Habs better now. Since both Romanov and Norlinder have been playing against men and succeeding over the last 2-3 years they don't need to be sent down to develop. They need to be played in the position that best challenges their abilities and provides them with opportunities to learn from their mistakes. The coaches also have to afford them a little bit of leeway but they also have to win games. I don't think that KK's development was hindered at all, he is still a good player but not worth his contract right now. I get that he was upset about being sat in the playoffs but who wouldn't be. Even vets don't want to be sat in the playoffs!

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24 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Considering how all of this Kotkaneimi stuff went down, have we gone too far with Romanov to start him in Laval this season. I’d really like to see that before it’s too late. Do we have enough depth to fill out our D without having to rush Romanov or Norlinder in too quick? 

we can do it, we have the bodies, but im not sure its necessary. I think one of the problems with Kotka is that he was never allowed to 'work out the kinks' at a lower level - he was just thrown into the NHL, trying to win games & develop at the same time. As Joel Bouchard always said: the AHL is about developing players, the NHL is about winning games.  So trying to do both at the same time can be really tough on a young player.

That's not to say that Romanov is fully developed but that extra time in the KHL afforded him the opportunity to work on some stuff & he was already more polished than Kotkaniemi in a lot of aspects when he arrived.   I also dont think he's too far off his projections. I see him as a #2-3 defensman and i could see him playing top 4 minutes for much of this year.

I think he'll be fine but hopefully the team does whats best for his development. 

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https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-hurricanes-offer-sheet-kotkaniemi-tough-situation/

Kotkaniemi Could be Only Loser in this Game

In the offer sheet chess match played out by the Canadiens and Hurricanes, the only piece in the game that stands a reasonable chance of losing is Kotkaniemi. Carolina and Montreal will keep moving pieces to improve their teams, signing players, letting players go, and so forth. Kotkaniemi, however, is betting on his future; he signed a hefty contract that – at this time – he probably doesn’t deserve, and he has one year to prove he’s worth at least half of it.

f Kotkaniemi doesn’t play up to his contract, or is close to a reasonable future contract, he could be left out in the cold searching for a contract from any team. It wouldn’t make any sense for Waddell to have a backdoor contract ready for a longer-term deal at a lower AAV for a player who hasn’t proven he can play to the expectations of their contract. This is not to say Kotkaniemi won’t succeed. His potential is still high – he is only 21, and he will be playing for an outstanding coach in Rod Brind’Amour.

Waddell and Bergevin are playing a game of chess. The players are the pawns, and Kotkaniemi could be the pawn that gets sacrificed, unless he can prove he’s worth not only being drafted third overall, but also a $6.1 million contract. All this pressure on a 21-year-old, just so one team can get back at another for something that happened two seasons ago.

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-hurricanes-offer-sheet-kotkaniemi-tough-situation/

Kotkaniemi Could be Only Loser in this Game

In the offer sheet chess match played out by the Canadiens and Hurricanes, the only piece in the game that stands a reasonable chance of losing is Kotkaniemi. Carolina and Montreal will keep moving pieces to improve their teams, signing players, letting players go, and so forth. Kotkaniemi, however, is betting on his future; he signed a hefty contract that – at this time – he probably doesn’t deserve, and he has one year to prove he’s worth at least half of it.

f Kotkaniemi doesn’t play up to his contract, or is close to a reasonable future contract, he could be left out in the cold searching for a contract from any team. It wouldn’t make any sense for Waddell to have a backdoor contract ready for a longer-term deal at a lower AAV for a player who hasn’t proven he can play to the expectations of their contract. This is not to say Kotkaniemi won’t succeed. His potential is still high – he is only 21, and he will be playing for an outstanding coach in Rod Brind’Amour.

Waddell and Bergevin are playing a game of chess. The players are the pawns, and Kotkaniemi could be the pawn that gets sacrificed, unless he can prove he’s worth not only being drafted third overall, but also a $6.1 million contract. All this pressure on a 21-year-old, just so one team can get back at another for something that happened two seasons ago.

The really dumb thing in all of this is that Bergevin actually helped the Canes with the Aho OS.   He has scored 123 points in a 124 games since the offer sheet.  He makes $8.4m this is good value in today's NHL.   

Sure, maybe Dundon didnt like the signing bonus but he's a billionaire, its not like he couldnt match it.  Im sure the Canes would like to have Aho locked up for 8 years rather than the 5 MB gave him, but in terms of Offer Sheets, there was nothing particularly "hostile" and this one. They answered with a massive overpayment and subsequent trolling job on social media. Thats their prerogative but I think they made a mistake, over... really, nothing. 

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 They answered with a massive overpayment and subsequent trolling job on social media. 

I read somewhere ( instagram ? ) that when Waddell was questioned about the 15 and $20 he said it was to gain social medium presence / movement / discussion ( ? ) I cant find it anymore . But he said it wasnt trolling it was to get people talking ( or something like that )

 

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3 hours ago, campabee82 said:

You just set up a perfect example of why we shouldn't expect Dvorak to be a top 6 center. Domi came in from Arizona and put up a massive 72 points in his first season here. That was awesome and unexpected but what happened in his second season? He reverted back to his more sensible 40ish points, lots of people have brought up that Dvorak had put up 2 100+ point seasons in London but that really doesn't mean anything. Domi had a 100+ point year there as well and Drouin had 2 100+ point seasons in the Q. I don't think it is realistic to expect a 25 year old player to come here and put up multiple 50+ seasons when his career average is only 34.75 points per season (I omitted his 20 game season cause that was an outlier). I think he will do exactly what Domi did, he will come in and have a great year then regress back to his normal 35-40 point self. It's not a knock on Dvorak cause he is still a good player but to expect more doesn't seem realistic, he has not proved he can put up any more than that and has been pretty consistent in those numbers over his career even with more offensive guys like Garland, Hall and Kessel. The way MB and KK described the decision to move on from KK both seem to indicate that there is a possibility for a return to Montreal. MB said he would to have loved to keep KK and KK's heartfelt goodbye seems to say he wanted to stay as well. They both seem to realize that this was just and unfortunate business decision from both sides that couldn't line up. I am not saying that we will ever see KK in a Habs jersey again but just that both sides seem to understand where the other side stood.

I don't have expectations that DVO will be a top 6 center but I hope he can be based on some evaluations. First -  Domi was drafted 1 year ahead of DVO and put up 50 point seasons (less goals) vs. DVO's 40 points in his first 3 seasons. Domi was rewarded with a $3.15M 2 year contract via Montreal trade, whereas Zona gave DVO a 6 year deal at $4.45M. Was it DVO having a better agent or were the Zona mgmt. and their evaluation team entirely wrong on thinking DVO still had some ceiling and thus locked up him for 6 years? Second, no secret Domi had temper character expectation issues - didn't like Tocchet as a coach, prone to stupid penalties and linemates even here in Montreal. We gave up a first rounder (Chucky) for Domi, and both were "Projects of disappointment". I see nothing in DVO's character or behaviour that causes me that same degree of angst. So I respect your view of dumping on DVO that he will flat line, but I have cautious optimism that he will reasonably succeed here for more than one year. I won't put a limitation label on him based a short body of work in a crappy Zona market.  

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24 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

I read somewhere ( instagram ? ) that when Waddell was questioned about the 15 and $20 he said it was to gain social medium presence / movement / discussion ( ? ) I cant find it anymore . But he said it wasnt trolling it was to get people talking ( or something like that )

 

Well they do have less social media presence than ME so i guess they need it. lol.  But im not sure its the best way to do things. Whatever.  I am glad the Habs organization didnt really play into it. 

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