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Goodbye Marc


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8 hours ago, claremont said:

Agree- GM’s lose their job for failing to make the playoffs and losing the ticket revenue. I haven’t seen one or a coach lose their job for anything else other than embarrassing the franchise culture by sexual, racist or demeaning behavior (Bill Peters etc.) 

Losing or overpaying KK, drafting Logan Mailloux, trading Sergachev for Drouin,  misfiring on Galchenyuk and several other screwups are offset by being finalists last year, signing some positive free agents,  drafting or trading for Caufield, Suzuki, Petry, Romanov having a reasonable high rated prospect pool at defense for the future etc. 

This is an overly critical subject post which is the easiest path to choose of seeing all the warts and pimples when there are some good achievements. No offering of a better replacement GM was provided. 

1) He drafted Galchenyuk, then obliterated his value before finally trading him

2) Sergachev for Drouin ... enough said

3)  Caufield ... he lucked out that nobody else took a chance on him and got him later in the draft.   There is no wizardry here from MB

4) Suzuki ... again lucked out ... he wasn't even the player from VK he wanted

5) Petry ... again lucked out ... as an Edmonton resident, the Petry we got is NOT the Petry MB signed ... if we got Petry like he was with Oilers, you'd have all been angry

6) Romanov is a 2nd round pick who hasn't proved anything yete

7) We made the finals in the easiest division, in the easiest year to do so ... and got embrassed by TBay.   In a normal year the Habs with our record and roster would not have made the playoffs, nevermind the finals

With the offer sheet, if we fail to match and I suspect we don't match,  we go from having potentially our 1C/2C sorted out and potentially not caring we lost Danault to hurting down the middle yet again.   You don't just throw away big centers with offensive upside and shrug it off.

Marc should have lost his job before this previous season, should have lost his job a few times now but Molson keeps him around.   Now we're about to lose a top prospect in JK due to cap mismanagement and his own ego thinking his offer sheet to Aho was bullet proof.    

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33 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

1) He drafted Galchenyuk, then obliterated his value before finally trading him

2) Sergachev for Drouin ... enough said

3)  Caufield ... he lucked out that nobody else took a chance on him and got him later in the draft.   There is no wizardry here from MB

4) Suzuki ... again lucked out ... he wasn't even the player from VK he wanted

5) Petry ... again lucked out ... as an Edmonton resident, the Petry we got is NOT the Petry MB signed ... if we got Petry like he was with Oilers, you'd have all been angry

6) Romanov is a 2nd round pick who hasn't proved anything yete

7) We made the finals in the easiest division, in the easiest year to do so ... and got embrassed by TBay.   In a normal year the Habs with our record and roster would not have made the playoffs, nevermind the finals

With the offer sheet, if we fail to match and I suspect we don't match,  we go from having potentially our 1C/2C sorted out and potentially not caring we lost Danault to hurting down the middle yet again.   You don't just throw away big centers with offensive upside and shrug it off.

Marc should have lost his job before this previous season, should have lost his job a few times now but Molson keeps him around.   Now we're about to lose a top prospect in JK due to cap mismanagement and his own ego thinking his offer sheet to Aho was bullet proof.    

I don’t necessarily disagree with everything you’ve said here (a lot though, I disagree with a lot) But by your rational, every good move/decision amounts to dumb luck and deserves no credit, but every bad move/decision warrants full responsibility. Couldn’t this critique just be flipped? Why (for example) is it luck to draft Caufield 15th overall? 14 other teams had him fall in their laps as well, but chose otherwise. It was certainly fortunate that he fell to 15th, but it was a good decision to draft him there. If Caufield turns out to be terrible, would you consider that just bad luck, or would all of a sudden MB deserve full credit for that one. Again, just picked this one as an example. Luck plays a big part in everything, both good and bad moves, but there’s always more to it than just that

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5 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I don’t necessarily disagree with everything you’ve said here (a lot though, I disagree with a lot) But by your rational, every good move/decision amounts to dumb luck and deserves no credit, but every bad move/decision warrants full responsibility. Couldn’t this critique just be flipped? Why (for example) is it luck to draft Caufield 15th overall? 14 other teams had him fall in their laps as well, but chose otherwise. It was certainly fortunate that he fell to 15th, but it was a good decision to draft him there. If Caufield turns out to be terrible, would you consider that just bad luck, or would all of a sudden MB deserve full credit for that one. Again, just picked this one as an example. Luck plays a big part in everything, both good and bad moves, but there’s always more to it than just that

When it comes to MB I firmly believe every "good move" was pure dumb luck on his part ... he's shown consistently he has no plan or vision for this team beyond muddle through with some whack job idea that "all you need to do is squeek into the playoffs"

Caufield as the example ... it was dumb luck that 14 other teams passed on him when most scouts were very high on his talent.     

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

1) He drafted Galchenyuk, then obliterated his value before finally trading him

2) Sergachev for Drouin ... enough said

3)  Caufield ... he lucked out that nobody else took a chance on him and got him later in the draft.   There is no wizardry here from MB

4) Suzuki ... again lucked out ... he wasn't even the player from VK he wanted

5) Petry ... again lucked out ... as an Edmonton resident, the Petry we got is NOT the Petry MB signed ... if we got Petry like he was with Oilers, you'd have all been angry

6) Romanov is a 2nd round pick who hasn't proved anything yete

7) We made the finals in the easiest division, in the easiest year to do so ... and got embrassed by TBay.   In a normal year the Habs with our record and roster would not have made the playoffs, nevermind the finals

With the offer sheet, if we fail to match and I suspect we don't match,  we go from having potentially our 1C/2C sorted out and potentially not caring we lost Danault to hurting down the middle yet again.   You don't just throw away big centers with offensive upside and shrug it off.

Marc should have lost his job before this previous season, should have lost his job a few times now but Molson keeps him around.   Now we're about to lose a top prospect in JK due to cap mismanagement and his own ego thinking his offer sheet to Aho was bullet proof.    

MB does have a history of bad moves and i'm far from a supporter of his,, but i imagine it's just as easy to put together a list of some of the good things he's done. Don't ask me to do it though.:frech1:

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

1) He drafted Galchenyuk, then obliterated his value before finally trading him

2) Sergachev for Drouin ... enough said

3)  Caufield ... he lucked out that nobody else took a chance on him and got him later in the draft.   There is no wizardry here from MB

4) Suzuki ... again lucked out ... he wasn't even the player from VK he wanted

5) Petry ... again lucked out ... as an Edmonton resident, the Petry we got is NOT the Petry MB signed ... if we got Petry like he was with Oilers, you'd have all been angry

6) Romanov is a 2nd round pick who hasn't proved anything yete

7) We made the finals in the easiest division, in the easiest year to do so ... and got embrassed by TBay.   In a normal year the Habs with our record and roster would not have made the playoffs, nevermind the finals

With the offer sheet, if we fail to match and I suspect we don't match,  we go from having potentially our 1C/2C sorted out and potentially not caring we lost Danault to hurting down the middle yet again.   You don't just throw away big centers with offensive upside and shrug it off.

Marc should have lost his job before this previous season, should have lost his job a few times now but Molson keeps him around.   Now we're about to lose a top prospect in JK due to cap mismanagement and his own ego thinking his offer sheet to Aho was bullet proof.    

I’m far from a Bergevin supporter. I’d love to see him go.  One needs a bit of balance in your argument to overwhelming suggest fire him now because of this one more mistake.  Seems like all the other 30 GM’s other than TBays are absolute crap for failing to advance to the finals in the easiest year to make it. The sorry additions of Anderson, Toffoli, Edmundson and Allen were garbage and total luck with not a shred of logic behind their thinking or fit to need or the team. 
So besides yourself, who is your saviour GM candidate that is a massive upgrade over MB to deliver us to full contender status? Dubas? 

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To follow up on HabsAlways' Galchenyuk comment, it does feel like we almost TRY to ruin the value of some of our young players. I feel like there are always a few young guys on the team who just don't get treated the same way older players do. They have less rope for no logical reason... Just that they are younger. This organization always stinks of favoritism towards "veterans" and players not being able to get ice time based on merit. I'd probably be excited to go to Carolina too if I were a young Finn with a chance to play with Aho and Teravainen.

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2 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

To follow up on HabsAlways' Galchenyuk comment, it does feel like we almost TRY to ruin the value of some of our young players. I feel like there are always a few young guys on the team who just don't get treated the same way older players do. They have less rope for no logical reason... Just that they are younger. This organization always stinks of favoritism towards "veterans" and players not being able to get ice time based on merit. I'd probably be excited to go to Carolina too if I were a young Finn with a chance to play with Aho and Teravainen.

I kind of agree here, but not quite in the way you have it. We do have a tendency to dish out opportunities unevenly. But I don’t see it as a youth vs veteran issue, I understand that veterans get different treatment. There might be more to it than just what we see on the ice. I’m more concerned with why some prospects get run through the system while others just skip right past it for no particular reason. Guys like Evans, Poehling, Fleury, Brooks etc sit back and watch guys like Kotkaneimi, Mete, Romanov walk right into the pros. If Kotkaneimi had been brought up the right way, a la Poehling, we wouldn’t be in this pickle right now. The kid was 17 for heck’s sake, what business did he have with the big club? Had he been down in Laval learning and developing along side Poehling, not only would Carolina not have OS’d him, he might actually be closer to the quality player that we drafted him to be. Instead we rushed him into the lineup WAY before he was ready, and instead of sending him back down once he stumbled and leaving him there until he’s actually ready to come back up, we sent him down for a weekend, brought him back up, scratched him, moves him around the lineup, totally botching his development. I have no issues playing Nate Thompson over Kotkaneimi or Poehling because their not ready. It’s rushing one over the other that bothers me. 

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12 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I kind of agree here, but not quite in the way you have it. We do have a tendency to dish out opportunities unevenly. But I don’t see it as a youth vs veteran issue, I understand that veterans get different treatment. There might be more to it than just what we see on the ice. I’m more concerned with why some prospects get run through the system while others just skip right past it for no particular reason. Guys like Evans, Poehling, Fleury, Brooks etc sit back and watch guys like Kotkaneimi, Mete, Romanov walk right into the pros. If Kotkaneimi had been brought up the right way, a la Poehling, we wouldn’t be in this pickle right now. The kid was 17 for heck’s sake, what business did he have with the big club? Had he been down in Laval learning and developing along side Poehling, not only would Carolina not have OS’d him, he might actually be closer to the quality player that we drafted him to be. Instead we rushed him into the lineup WAY before he was ready, and instead of sending him back down once he stumbled and leaving him there until he’s actually ready to come back up, we sent him down for a weekend, brought him back up, scratched him, moves him around the lineup, totally botching his development. I have no issues playing Nate Thompson over Kotkaneimi or Poehling because their not ready. It’s rushing one over the other that bothers me. 

Fair comment.

There's always this push and pull between rushing guys to the league or letting them develop slowly. I feel like since guys like Ovechskin and Crosby came into the league, teams are quick to rush highly drafted prospects to the league believing they have the next great player.

Not saying that's exactly what happened with someone like Kotkaniemi, but it did feel like bringing in a player maybe too quick.

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On 8/30/2021 at 7:53 PM, jennifer_rocket said:

To follow up on HabsAlways' Galchenyuk comment, it does feel like we almost TRY to ruin the value of some of our young players. I feel like there are always a few young guys on the team who just don't get treated the same way older players do. They have less rope for no logical reason... Just that they are younger. This organization always stinks of favoritism towards "veterans" and players not being able to get ice time based on merit. I'd probably be excited to go to Carolina too if I were a young Finn with a chance to play with Aho and Teravainen.

Pretty much. Might have something to do with the old school coaches the Habs have a tendency of employing. Therrien was the worst, and Julien wasn't much better.  & they both had 2 terms! Coincidence? I'm thinking not.

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53 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Pretty much. Might have something to do with the old school coaches the Habs have a tendency of employing. Therrien was the worst, and Julien wasn't much better.  & they both had 2 terms! Coincidence? I'm thinking not.

New school guy didn't seem much better with his handling of the kids. Sits out KK at the beginning and end of playoffs and Romanov couldn't buy a spot over Merrill.

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58 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

New school guy didn't seem much better with his handling of the kids. Sits out KK at the beginning and end of playoffs and Romanov couldn't buy a spot over Merrill.

You are correct!  Then, the common denominator, is bergebin.  I feel, bergebin may have more of a say with DD. and had a bit of pursuasion with MT & CJ. Any way you look at it, MT stifled the youngsters for 7 years while CJ did so for 7 years as well.  That's 14 years! And let's not examine the farm club! The Habs talk the talk on development, but don't walk the walk.

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1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

New school guy didn't seem much better with his handling of the kids. Sits out KK at the beginning and end of playoffs and Romanov couldn't buy a spot over Merrill.

 

27 minutes ago, electron58 said:

You are correct!  Then, the common denominator, is bergebin.  I feel, bergebin may have more of a say with DD. and had a bit of pursuasion with MT & CJ. Any way you look at it, MT stifled the youngsters for 7 years while CJ did so for 7 years as well.  That's 14 years! And let's not examine the farm club! The Habs talk the talk on development, but don't walk the walk.

Any way you cut it, the Habs' development has been pretty abysmal. I actually don't find their drafting to have been that awful, it's been pretty par for the course if not better than average, and I've gone over many times how they've hit on almost all of their top 10 choices and found some diamonds in the rough too. We can complain all we want about a guy like Galchenyuk but he was a top 10 player in a crappy draft class and we can complain that we didn't draft players like Pastrnak or Point, but the fact is that if anyone knew they would be that good, they'd have been top 5 choices. That doesn't make the Habs any worse at drafting than 30 teams passing over those guys too.

But as far as development goes, we have been brutal. The farm team was a disaster under Lefebvre and didn't graduate anyone of note for a long time. Over the past 10-15 years, we've managed to muck up prospects like Tinordi, Beaulieu, Leblanc, Latendresse, Scherbak, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Andrighetto, Mete, etc. Most of the time, the organization would play these guys behind awful unskilled veteran journeymen. Most of the time, when these guys did get chances, they would be on a tight leash and they would be criticized and benched for small mistakes. This organization has been terrible at fostering a growth mindset for prospects, it's always been about producing now and earning your keep but never about the organization taking responsibility for developing, teaching, and giving experience.

You look at this past playoffs. Kotkaniemi and Caufield and Romanov start the playoffs in the pressbox. Kotkaniemi comes back and plays well most of the time, but a struggle or two and he's in and out of the pressbox again. Romanov can't get in the line-up hardly at all and even after returning and playing well, goes back to the press box again. It would be one thing if the Habs were sitting youngsters behind the likes of Crosby, Stamkos, Hedman, or Pietrangelo. But they're not. They've chosen Dwight King over Galchenyuk, Jordan Weal over Charles Hudon. They've opted for Travis Moen over a young Pacioretty in the top 6. They chose Desharnais over Galchenyuk and Eller. They liked Murray and re-treaded Bouillon over Beaulieu, Tinordi, and Pateryn. They preferred Alzner and Schlemko to Mete. They felt more comfortable with Merrill over Romanov and Staal ahead of Kotkaniemi. I remember seeing AHL games where 4th line career AHLers would be getting PP time while Louis Leblanc sat on the bench.

All this to say that the Habs need to stop using age and lack of experience as a reason not to give a player experience. The team is too infatuated with unskilled veterans to bother figuring out what will make them better in the long run. So I'm not suggesting they play Ylonen or Poehling or Evans over Anderson, Toffoli, or Gallagher. But if there's an injury and they decide to plug Alex Belzile in, it's nonsensical. When they continue to call up Xavier Ouellet and see him play like crap, while we give zero experience to Josh Brook or Cale Fleury in those situations, it's just dumb. You want to develop young skill players, you need to give them ice time and opportunity and the support to succeed. You can't play a talent who has dominated junior on the 4th line with Ott and Martinsen or Froese or Blunden or Laraque and give him 6 minutes a game and wonder why he isn't having success and then blame the player for not seizing the opportunity. They should have given Galchenyuk 40 games as a 1C. They should have given Kotkaniemi top 6 wingers last year rather than continuing to go back to Danault and his 0 goals. They should have played Beaulieu and/or Tinordi in the NHL instead of treading out Murray over and over. They should have given Romanov NHL playoff experience last year instead of turnover machine Merrill. Some baffling stuff, but it falls on the shoulders of the coach and GM for not developing prospects well and then having to fill out their roster with UFA's and reclamation projects.

 

 

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Interesting conversation on the draft. All I can say is the year we drafted Galchenyuk the OIlers took Yakupov first overall and he is nowhere to be seen. I think the NHL and the media create an environment of false expectations. The draft has been turned into the centre of the offseason and pumped as the crown of the offseason. BUt unfortunately that doesn't mean it automatically becomes an exact science. Despite teams having more scouts and resources it is still quite a bit of a crap shoot. While millions are spent on research the problem is the people being drafted are still eighteen year old kids. See this years pick if you need more evidence. In the past we have looked at skill (see Galchenyuk) over hockey IQ which is tough to assess and it has created problems. I think Drouin to some extent is another example of a player with tons of skill, but needs to develop his hockey IQ. Evaluating 18 year olds is far from  a perfect science but I think Bergevin has begun to look at hockey IQ as a more important attribute and this will result in better picks. Evidence of this would be the drafting or acquisition of players like Armia, Byron, Evans, Danault and more recently Caufield and Toffoli. When I look at the list of failed picks including Beaulieu, Tinordi and Scherbek I think it has been a combination of things that have cause them to be less effective. Part of that is the constant changing of the league into a more skilled and speed game where players have less time to make quick decisions and mistakes become more costly. I try not to take the draft too seriously as there are other opportunities to acquire talent as both Carolina and Montreal did today, but I also agree that it would be nice if w can make a more exact science. The two teams with the most top picks are still trying to find their way. The Oilers can't make it out of the first round and Buffalo........... enough said. We will soon see how the years of futility impact the Sens as well.

If the Sabres and Sens can continue to struggle with their picks I won't be complaining.

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6 hours ago, Habberwacky said:

Interesting conversation on the draft. All I can say is the year we drafted Galchenyuk the OIlers took Yakupov first overall and he is nowhere to be seen. I think the NHL and the media create an environment of false expectations. The draft has been turned into the centre of the offseason and pumped as the crown of the offseason. BUt unfortunately that doesn't mean it automatically becomes an exact science. Despite teams having more scouts and resources it is still quite a bit of a crap shoot. While millions are spent on research the problem is the people being drafted are still eighteen year old kids. See this years pick if you need more evidence. In the past we have looked at skill (see Galchenyuk) over hockey IQ which is tough to assess and it has created problems. I think Drouin to some extent is another example of a player with tons of skill, but needs to develop his hockey IQ. Evaluating 18 year olds is far from  a perfect science but I think Bergevin has begun to look at hockey IQ as a more important attribute and this will result in better picks. Evidence of this would be the drafting or acquisition of players like Armia, Byron, Evans, Danault and more recently Caufield and Toffoli. When I look at the list of failed picks including Beaulieu, Tinordi and Scherbek I think it has been a combination of things that have cause them to be less effective. Part of that is the constant changing of the league into a more skilled and speed game where players have less time to make quick decisions and mistakes become more costly. I try not to take the draft too seriously as there are other opportunities to acquire talent as both Carolina and Montreal did today, but I also agree that it would be nice if w can make a more exact science. The two teams with the most top picks are still trying to find their way. The Oilers can't make it out of the first round and Buffalo........... enough said. We will soon see how the years of futility impact the Sens as well.

If the Sabres and Sens can continue to struggle with their picks I won't be complaining.

Drouin, by all accounts from the media, is one of the smartest hockey IQ players on the team. They report that he is able to break down a lot of plays and explain why things worked or didn't work and a few of the media have said he'll make an excellent coach when he's done playing. Drouin is a great puck carrier and distributor. I think where he fails is that he doesn't like going to the dirty areas as much.

As far as the group of Tinordi, Beaulieu, Scherbak, Poehling, etc. they're all mid-to-late round picks, and the truth is that picks there are entirely a crapshoot as to whether they even make the NHL, never mind becoming core players. So the odds those players became stars was always going to be low. I do think the Habs failed in developing them properly and giving them opportunity to learn and take next steps, and maybe we would have had some guys who would have been regulars in our line-up, but the fact is that if you want top-line players or top-pairing D men, your odds are significantly higher if you draft in the top 5-10.

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22 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 Over the past 10-15 years, we've managed to muck up prospects like Tinordi, Beaulieu, Leblanc, Latendresse, Scherbak, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Andrighetto, Mete, etc.

Did the Canadiens muck up the prospects or were the prospects never going to be top NHL players to begin with .

Tinordi, Beaulieu, Mete are replaceable NHL D men

Leblanc, Scherbak, Andrighetto arent in the NHL

Hudon signed with Tampa

Alex G doesn't have an NHL contract and is on his 6 th NHL team

These players all had an opportunity to go elsewhere but same thing happened 

 

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57 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Did the Canadiens muck up the prospects or were the prospects never going to be top NHL players to begin with .

Tinordi, Beaulieu, Mete are replaceable NHL D men

Leblanc, Scherbak, Andrighetto arent in the NHL

Hudon signed with Tampa

Alex G doesn't have an NHL contract and is on his 6 th NHL team

These players all had an opportunity to go elsewhere but same thing happened 

 

And we'll never know... the problem is that they didn't do a great job developing them in the first place, so might have derailed their careers. I cited a bunch of examples previously, but when you play scrubs over prospects at the AHL level, you don't help their development. The guys in the AHL need to get ice time, have the puck on their sticks, work on timing and judging the speed of the game, and get experience on special teams. There were countless examples, especially under Lefebvre, of younger guys getting benched and/or not getting PP time while veteran AHLers did.

Then you look at a guy like Hudon, who excelled in the AHL for a couple of years but rarely got a real chance at the NHL level. He would come up and sit in the pressbox, then get thrown into a game or two and on the rare occasion he got to play in the top 9, he would frequently get a few shifts and then end up back on the 4th line or not playign the rest of the night. So pretty hard to know when you don't give a guy opportunity and don't let them play with skilled linemates and ruin their confidence how they might have fared elsewhere.

You look at players like Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Latendresse, Hudon, Mete, Diaz, Emelin, Subban, Kotkaniemi, etc and they were almost better players when they broke into the league than when the Habs were done "fixing them." As Michel Bergeron said, the Habs under Bergevin have spent a lot of time trying to over-coach players and focus on too many details, but they're not consistent with they're messaging and they confuse the younger players and don't give a clear expectation of what they want. They try to force younger skilled players to be checkers and hitters when that's not their game. So am I surprised that Galchenyuk wasn't on a 30-goal pace playing with Martinsen and Ott but he was when he played with Eller and Gallagher? Am I surprised that Kotkaniemi played well when spotted with Drouin and Armia but didn't do so well when playing with Byron and Lehkonen? Conversely, the team has been more than happy to throw the likes of Dehsarnais, Gomez, Danault, Murray, Alzner, Chiarot, etc. into roles they didn't earn and weren't all that successful in, while better players sat behind them. They would run out the likes of Plekanec, Gionta, Markov, Staal, and Weber past their prime when they couldn't handle the roles like they were 25 any more.

So yeah, hard to tell. It's clear that we either had a problem with drafting or development or both, but based on the decisions we can see, development is the way bigger issue. Look at who is on the roster now or coming up. Let's see if they continue to treat Romanov like a baby. Even though he outplayed half the D corps last year, he couldn't get any playoff experience. Let's see if they keep Brook in the minors or keep Norlinder off the NHL roster while giving NHL time to Ouellet or Wideman. Let's see if Caufield makes it through his first big slump without ending up on the 4th line. Let's see if Price starts the season injured whether they give Primeau a handful of games or if they just go to Allen over and over. Let's see if Ylonen or Belzile is given first crack at a call-up. Let's see if Poehling and Evans get better opportunity than Paquette and Perreault. I'm willing to hedge my bet that Paquette and Perreault are coach's favorites and get more leash than Evans and Poehling. I'm willing to bet that Brook and Norlinder don't make the squad and that if they do, they're in the pressbox regularly or in the minors by the 30-game mark. You have to give your young guys a chance to earn their keep. I'd understand if we had a stellar line-up preventing some of those guys from getting in, but we don't. We choose aging vets over development.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Drouin, by all accounts from the media, is one of the smartest hockey IQ players on the team. They report that he is able to break down a lot of plays and explain why things worked or didn't work and a few of the media have said he'll make an excellent coach when he's done playing. Drouin is a great puck carrier and distributor. I think where he fails is that he doesn't like going to the dirty areas as much.

 

So you would say it is more a lack of aggression in his game and I can agree with that as the sport is made to be intimidating. Where I see the IQ lacking is on the ppor decision making like many before him. Being the last man back and trying to make that extra move (perhaps it is an overconfidence in his ability) I would argue that x's and o's smart is not the same as the on ice IQ when making the right play. How I tend to assess that is by how often given the same situation on the ice and same possibilites a player continues to make a poor choice. For me Galchenyuk is the quickest and easiest example for this. Some learn with experience and others not so much. With all the statistical analysis going on these days I am sure we are not too far away  from correlations between certain stats and hockey IQ being quantiified and used in drafting. Putting some players in duress during the course of a game and identifying their tendencies cannot be to hard to do, Some players appear to have a much harder time consistently making good choices and with skill or speed of the game improving each year more and more players get exposed.

The one thing I will say is I thought Drouin had made some signifcant adjustment to his game and looked much better before hurting his wrist. If he can find that form again this year he will be a very valuable player. I had wanted Montreal to trade for him at the time and still think he has the skill to even out the Sergachev. move

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On 9/4/2021 at 11:00 PM, Habberwacky said:

Interesting conversation on the draft. All I can say is the year we drafted Galchenyuk the OIlers took Yakupov first overall and he is nowhere to be seen. I think the NHL and the media create an environment of false expectations. The draft has been turned into the centre of the offseason and pumped as the crown of the offseason. BUt unfortunately that doesn't mean it automatically becomes an exact science. Despite teams having more scouts and resources it is still quite a bit of a crap shoot.

Yup. We always compare our team (that's any team's fans) against the league.   You have to compare 1 team to another team, not all 31 others.  

The Tampa bay lightning just won back to back cups with only a few of their own 1st rounders in the lineup.  Stamkos and Hedman - both drafted over 12 years ago and both 1st overalls -  and Foote - who only played 9 playoff games. I wonder if people were calling for Cooper's head for not playing him more? 

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On 9/4/2021 at 9:38 PM, habs1952 said:

That is part of the problem!

Ken Dryden said this so well in his classic book "The Game." He said then that the Habs were at a crossroads, to win, or stay French Canadian.

This is not me talking - this is Dryden talking.

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19 hours ago, Larry-Launstein-Jr said:

Ken Dryden said this so well in his classic book "The Game." He said then that the Habs were at a crossroads, to win, or stay French Canadian.

This is not me talking - this is Dryden talking.

Sadly, never truer words were written.

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21 hours ago, Larry-Launstein-Jr said:

Ken Dryden said this so well in his classic book "The Game." He said then that the Habs were at a crossroads, to win, or stay French Canadian.

This is not me talking - this is Dryden talking.

 

1 hour ago, electron58 said:

Sadly, never truer words were written.

Still wish he had gotten the Libs leadership post back when it was between him, Trudeau and a couple of others.   Feel like he would have made a great PM. 

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14 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

Still wish he had gotten the Libs leadership post back when it was between him, Trudeau and a couple of others.   Feel like he would have made a great PM. 

Agreed. He wouldn't have had any hidden agendas. He's a clear thinker and analyzes all sides. A true Leader, and not a follower.

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