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Training Camp - Pre-season


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On 10/2/2021 at 6:50 PM, BigTed3 said:

A number of guys who improved their stock tonight:

- Chris Wideman was strong tonight as he battles for the 6 or 7 D spot.

I think he has the inside track, especially with Niku out.  I dont think he's going to be a game-changer or anything but i think he should slot in fairly well at #3RD.  Frankly with Petry-Savard-Wideman we actually have a decent RD.  Ideally you'd want a petry-quality player at LD now too, which we clearly dont have. 

 

On 10/2/2021 at 6:50 PM, BigTed3 said:

- Alex Romanov played his best game of the pre-season and looked comfortable next to Petry. Is there any chance that duo actually sticks and Edmundson slots in next to Savard instead?

The big concern for me is Chairot.  I think if anyone is going to impede Romanov is Chairot.  My hope is that if Romanov doenst maintain his spot next to Petry, that maybe he sneaks in next to Savard & Chiarot falls back to Wideman's pairing.  I worry that they rank the defense  Petry>Edmundson>Savard=Chairot>Romanov>Wideman.. in which case they want to play those 4 guys ahead of Romanov. 

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On 10/4/2021 at 12:15 PM, maas_art said:

The big concern for me is Chiarot.  I think if anyone is going to impede Romanov is Chiarot.  My hope is that if Romanov does'nt maintain his spot next to Petry, that maybe he sneaks in next to Savard & Chiarot falls back to Wideman's pairing.  I worry that they rank the defense  Petry>Edmundson>Savard=Chairot>Romanov>Wideman.. in which case they want to play those 4 guys ahead of Romanov. 

You are correct. It's looking like RoMANov is 3rd pairing next to Wideman.  Kulak next to Petry.   Savard&Chiarot.

I would switch RoMANov with Chiarot, but what do I know?

Guhle will be gone.  They have 6 somewhat healthy defensemen.

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9 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Ylonen has been cut.

Ducharme says Guhle will only stay if he's in the top 6.

Must mean Paquette is ready to go, and will be a reserve, next to Poehling. I don't know why they don't play Poehling regularly to see what they have.

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7 minutes ago, electron58 said:

You are correct. It's looking like RoMANov is 3rd pairing next to Wideman.  Kulak next to Petry.   Savard&Chiarot.

I would switch RoMANov with Chiarot, but what do I know?

Guhle will be gone.  They have 6 somewhat healthy defensemen.

Kulak next to Petry for any length of time will be bad. Kulak is not anywhere near top 4 material. 

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1 minute ago, CaptWelly said:

Kulak next to Petry for any length of time will be bad. Kulak is not anywhere near top 4 material. 

True.  But he does play a safer game. But the way the Habs have their defense paired, they got the 2 sloths on 2nd pairing. Teams are going to have a field day, flying around them.

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2 minutes ago, electron58 said:

True.  But he does play a safer game. But the way the Habs have their defense paired, they got the 2 sloths on 2nd pairing. Teams are going to have a field day, flying around them.

And when Edmundson comes back Romy will probably be out of the lineup cause management and the coaches are morons!

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38 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Must mean Paquette is ready to go, and will be a reserve, next to Poehling. I don't know why they don't play Poehling regularly to see what they have.

Ducharme says Paquette (LBI) will return to practice with the team next Monday. Hoffman (LBI) will start skating with the team next week and ideally begin practising the following week, all subject to observation of his progress.


Renaud Lavoie
Cédric Paquette should be back Monday at regular practice. Mike Hoffman in around 10 days.

Looks like Belzile holding on to an opening night spot, pending Paquette’s availability, so, who knows.

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With the way this team continues to deploy fringe veteran players as if they are top 6 or top 4 D men, it's no wonder out younger players like Kotkaniemi, Romanov and Peohling and others in the past have wanted out. Romanov played well next to Petry through camp and as soon as camp wraps up,  boom down to the bottom pairing.

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13 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

, it's no wonder out younger players like Kotkaniemi, Romanov and Peohling and others in the past have wanted out.

Which others in the past have wanted out

Kotkaniemi was offerred $6 m - he's not worth that - anyone in their right mind would accept it .

 

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38 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Which others in the past have wanted out

Kotkaniemi was offerred $6 m - he's not worth that - anyone in their right mind would accept it .

 

Rumors had it that KK said he wanted out after being sat in the playoffs. No player wants to be sat for less skilled players. The point is relegating Romanov to 3rd pairing in favor of Kulak or Chiarot will p*** him off eventually just like it did with KK being sat during the playoffs. We are lucky however that Zuke and CC have been kept together SO FAR. I expect if Caufield struggles out of the gate he will be relegated to the 3rd or 4th line as well. Habs coaches need to allow their players especially the young players to make mistakes and learn from them as well as if they start to slump find a way out of it on their own. That's how players develop not by being benched and making them afraid to miss an assignment but through ACTUAL coaching.

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7 hours ago, campabee82 said:

With the way this team continues to deploy fringe veteran players as if they are top 6 or top 4 D men, it's no wonder out younger players like Kotkaniemi, Romanov and Peohling and others in the past have wanted out. Romanov played well next to Petry through camp and as soon as camp wraps up,  boom down to the bottom pairing.

Our D is so bad we could lose Jake Allen to mental health issues in a month. 

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18 hours ago, campabee82 said:

With the way this team continues to deploy fringe veteran players as if they are top 6 or top 4 D men, it's no wonder out younger players like Kotkaniemi, Romanov and Peohling and others in the past have wanted out. Romanov played well next to Petry through camp and as soon as camp wraps up,  boom down to the bottom pairing.

Seriously? Then explain why young guys like, Suzuki, Cole Caufield, or a guy like Lekonen, Gallagher players that started here.

YOU have to EARN your spot.  I kept hearing these same things about Galchenyk, he was brutal on one side of the red line one of the worst in the league and not enough finish on the other. He failed not because we did't give him a chance.

Its great to have a wonderfully looking deeman who can blow up the ice along the boards, i.e. Ghost who everybody wanted, but was given away for nothing,  score a beutiful goal, but is out of postition all night, no defensive game, no physicallity, while the other 4 players have to decide to cover for him, so that puts them out of position as well. It is a team game.

Romanov has a shift where he looks great, then the next 5 shifts he is floundering around like a duck out of water ...I am sure he will be better this year then last. Under a normal hockey state ( less covid) year he should have played a year in the AHL.

Same with the forwards, fine if you can put up 30 plus goals and 40 plus assists, over 70 points on a regular basis, ahh maybe your defensive game can be overlooked a bit 

Poeling has done ziltch in the pre season. I still think he can become a strong two way center. When i dont know? but they have given him lotsa of looks and i am sure want him to succeed. I am hoping because he only played 28 games last season and had teh injury at the end of the year its a slow start. 

As coaching and all management you want your players to succeed, THATS a FACT. You also want your team to win, so if a veteran out plays a young player. Then that young player will sit. Or be sent to a place they can develop, AHL, back to Junior, Overseas. 

I remember playing on a wreck team (beer league) 35 and over. One of the guys that played with us coached a local AAA bantam team. And asked if they could play an exhbition game with us. no contact of course. We were in awe with the skill and speed of these young kids during warm up. And you could see the kids new they were much better. Their shots, speed amazing. Right off the puck drop, their center tapped it threw our centers legs, flew by him easily split the dee and it was one nothing. Things settled in after that. We were more conscious, we got control of the puck earlier, as a five man unit we did not allow much room for 1 player to get from point a to b.  We moved the puck quickly, they chased it all night. They could easily beat us one on one, skillset was much higher then any of us, they were quicker, younger and likely outhit us as well if that was allowed. The puck however moves quicker then any one player, 5 guys even though less skill will likley win most puck battles over one player. We ended up winning something like 13 - 7 and we had the puck most of the evening.

They chased the PUCK  over and over and over. Anyone of their players could have played in any position. Not one really new how to play their position.

Their coach without us knowing, who as I mentioned played with our group. Got excactly what he wanted from this game. He was preaching to his kids all year, the importance of playing your position and playing in 5 man units, its so much an easier game to play. 

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2 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Seriously? Then explain why young guys like, Suzuki, Cole Caufield, or a guy like Lekonen, Gallagher players that started here.

YOU have to EARN your spot.  I kept hearing these same things about Galchenyk, he was brutal on one side of the red line one of the worst in the league and not enough finish on the other. He failed not because we did't give him a chance.

Its great to have a wonderfully looking deeman who can blow up the ice along the boards, i.e. Ghost who everybody wanted, but was given away for nothing,  score a beutiful goal, but is out of postition all night, no defensive game, no physicallity, while the other 4 players have to decide to cover for him, so that puts them out of position as well. It is a team game.

Romanov has a shift where he looks great, then the next 5 shifts he is floundering around like a duck out of water ...I am sure he will be better this year then last. Under a normal hockey state ( less covid) year he should have played a year in the AHL.

Same with the forwards, fine if you can put up 30 plus goals and 40 plus assists, over 70 points on a regular basis, ahh maybe your defensive game can be overlooked a bit 

Poeling has done ziltch in the pre season. I still think he can become a strong two way center. When i dont know? but they have given him lotsa of looks and i am sure want him to succeed. I am hoping because he only played 28 games last season and had teh injury at the end of the year its a slow start. 

As coaching and all management you want your players to succeed, THATS a FACT. You also want your team to win, so if a veteran out plays a young player. Then that young player will sit. Or be sent to a place they can develop, AHL, back to Junior, Overseas. 

I remember playing on a wreck team (beer league) 35 and over. One of the guys that played with us coached a local AAA bantam team. And asked if they could play an exhbition game with us. no contact of course. We were in awe with the skill and speed of these young kids during warm up. And you could see the kids new they were much better. Their shots, speed amazing. Right off the puck drop, their center tapped it threw our centers legs, flew by him easily split the dee and it was one nothing. Things settled in after that. We were more conscious, we got control of the puck earlier, as a five man unit we did not allow much room for 1 player to get from point a to b.  We moved the puck quickly, they chased it all night. They could easily beat us one on one, skillset was much higher then any of us, they were quicker, younger and likely outhit us as well if that was allowed. The puck however moves quicker then any one player, 5 guys even though less skill will likley win most puck battles over one player. We ended up winning something like 13 - 7 and we had the puck most of the evening.

They chased the PUCK  over and over and over. Anyone of their players could have played in any position. Not one really new how to play their position.

Their coach without us knowing, who as I mentioned played with our group. Got excactly what he wanted from this game. He was preaching to his kids all year, the importance of playing your position and playing in 5 man units, its so much an easier game to play. 

Yeah it is an ongoing thing here lots of folks crapping on management about playing young players then when one does not work out the slam them again for bringing them up too soon! and we all have our favorite players who we tend to view only through what they do right and miss the mistakes they make. others only believe the game can be looked at through the lens of advanced stats turning a blind eye to most other things. we all have our point of view and we are all sure we are right! but if you really look around the NHL you will see every team has its own issues and even the ones at the top will fade at some point because they will not be able to keep all of the good players they have! even the teams that suck enough to get the really choice draft picks have no sure path to the top. at the end of the day it is a group of guys that have to play together with what skill they have and getting good direction and prep from the team there is no to it than that.

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If the GM is worried about pissing off his players he might want to leave. Expectations need to be consistent to get improvement . No one is entitled to a position. In fact here was a a time when younger players had to significantly out play a veteran before he'd even get close to being able to take another players spot. Not too many special players are able to do that. Look at Lafreniere with the Rags. They are bringing him along slowly. Bergy has been proven right with many of the  moves he has made. These guys are getting big money to perform. 

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On 10/9/2021 at 12:51 PM, BigTed3 said:

Ylonen has been cut.

Ducharme says Guhle will only stay if he's in the top 6.

Interesting- I suspect Guhle stays on a trial experience until Edmundson is healthy enough to return and he could see a couple of games as an alternate to Kulak or Wideman depending on the opponent. 

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I would have been more shocked if Ylonen cracked this lineup. I just don't see what others do with this kid. He really doesn't look NHL ready to me. Gulhe looks like he could step into the NHL but he hasn't shown enough to be anywhere near ready for a top 4 role IMO.

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8 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yeah it is an ongoing thing here lots of folks crapping on management about playing young players then when one does not work out the slam them again for bringing them up too soon! and we all have our favorite players who we tend to view only through what they do right and miss the mistakes they make. others only believe the game can be looked at through the lens of advanced stats turning a blind eye to most other things. we all have our point of view and we are all sure we are right! but if you really look around the NHL you will see every team has its own issues and even the ones at the top will fade at some point because they will not be able to keep all of the good players they have! even the teams that suck enough to get the really choice draft picks have no sure path to the top. at the end of the day it is a group of guys that have to play together with what skill they have and getting good direction and prep from the team there is no to it than that.

But look at teams over the past decade or so that have been able to stay at the top for an extended period of time. You had the Hawks who ran with Kane/Toews/Keith/Seabrook for a while. You had the Pens with Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Fleury. You had the Caps with Ovi/Backstrom and eventually Carlson. You had the Sharks with Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Burns. You have Tampa now with Stamkos/Hedman/Kucherov and then Point and Vasilevskiy. The Bruins with Bergeron/Marchand/Chara. Sure, there was turnover on all these rosters, but they had a core of stars, many of whom they had drafted (and drafted high in the 1st round), and that core of who was really important was kept together. Yes, you need a little bit of a boost and luck to actually win a Cup, but if you look at the teams that have had staying power as top 5-7 teams year in year out over the past while, they tend to have been able to keep their group of 3-5 most important players together. They tend to have an elite 1C and they tend to have a top 10 D man in the league. Right now, the Habs arguably don't have either of those things. If I'm building this roster, I'm trying to figure out who fits the billing to fill those roles, and who the core of 5 guys is that I want to keep around long-term.

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 Give us just one player like Ovie or Crosby or Stamkos to build around and we could do the same. For that we would have to finish low enough and get the #1 to pick a generational player. imagine how that would go over tanking that bad to get the top draft picks for a couple of years......

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39 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

They made the right call on Guhle - Primeau has looked shaky on the games I saw but I won’t be surprised to see Primeau play more in November or December if Price stays out for a while and the “M” dude falters 

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