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Habs Clean house. Bergevin, Timmins, Wilson Terminated


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New Contract?  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you feel MB deserves a new contract?

    • Yes,,, he's earned it.
      1
    • Absolutely not,,, he hasn't earned it.
      11
    • Undecided
      1

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4 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

I agree, way too much of a hot head, can't see him being a fit in today's NHL

 

2 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Lol really not loving all the talk about a diversity hire, for the sake of diversity. 
lol we can’t afford to take a chance on Roy due to the importance of this position, just can’t risk it. But heck, why not try something even riskier, with someone even less qualified, because diversity… 

Don’t get me wrong, Gorton already has the position that I thought best suited Roy, so I’m not exactly pulling for him at this point. But I’ll be super darn disappointed if we go this direction instead…

I don't understand the narrative of Roy being "too emotional" or "too passionate" you see all the time GM's in the box screaming at the refs for a bad call or jumping and cheering when their team scores in a big game. With the GM being up and away from the players benches its not like Roy can knock down the glass on another GM and go after him for targeting his players. Roy's passion and intensity wouldn't come into play at all other than being like the other 31 GM's jumping and cheering or yelling at bad calls from 5 stories above the ice surface with no one outside of the organization in the suite with him.

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Who knew that a few photos shared on an obscure team's bus thousands of kilometres away would lead to the Montreal Canadiens hiring a Vice -President of hockey operations and Geoff Molson receiving some stern guidance from his co-owners.  A butterfly flaps its' wings and...............

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23 minutes ago, claremont said:

Of the 5 years and 45, the only ones of note in my analysis are

 2017 - only 3 of 7 - Poehling, injured Josh Brook, Primeau,  2018) - 11 picks - may have only struck on 4 - KK was moved for Dvorak - probably a downgrade based on potential of a 3rd overall pick, Ylonen TBD, Romanov a starter, jury out on Jordan Harris as to whether we can sign him - the rest are unlikely 2019) 10 picks - struck on 2-3 plus a longshot - Caufield, Norlinder, Struble - longshot is Harvey-Pinard 2020) 8 picks - maybe 3 - Guhle, Mysak, Farrell - Tuch was injured 2021) 9 picks - too early - Mailloux debacle, Kidney and Simoneau - small - Joshua Roy looks like a steal

 

I would debate if those I hi-lighted / underlined will make it to the NHL - and if they do , will they make an impact  or just be bottom fillers ( which you can find anytime  ).

 

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7 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

I would debate if those I hi-lighted / underlined will make it to the NHL - and if they do , will they make an impact  or just be bottom fillers ( which you can find anytime  ).

Reasonable points and we should have had better quality - I would debate Guhle. Need to see more of him but I think he will be a physical shutdown defender. He's expected to be Captain of the national junior team. While he may not have the flare of a puck moving defender as a true #1#2 pairing, and he's playing on a crappy Prince Albert Raiders junior team, he is likely to be a starter for years to come, with versatility at both sides of the D. Big and we need some hitters back there besides Romanov who plays above his size.  

Joshua Roy - Leading the QMJHL in scoring - 6 ft 186 lb winger. who just turned 18 and was one of the youngest players in the draft. I prefer to see some part of the glass as half full. 

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1 hour ago, claremont said:

In today's presser, Molson referenced 5 years of drafting and 45 players with another 11 on the way. Clearly Molson seems to be disappointed on the development curve much like most of us, so I suspect Gorton's first priority will be to stockpile some picks, build thru the draft, and ensure the prospect pool is managed properly. This quote may be a good sign of the preliminary discussions and directions with Gorton on first review, and that seems to be his prior modus operandi.

Bergevin's biggest fault has always been his inability to see quality vs quantity.   We've discussed at length how even though guys like Edmundson, Chiarot, Savard, Kulak, Wideman may all be technically Nhl-level defensmen, you cant just plop them anywhere in your group & expect success.  Just because a guy like Petry or Weber - or back in MB's days, MacInnis, coudl carry a pairing doesnt mean that Chiarot-Savard would work.

Likewise with drafts.  MB thinks "well, 10 picks in the draft is amazing" but when 8 of them are outside the top 60 its not so valuable.   Sure, maybe our drafting team finds a diamond in the rough like Romanov or Lehkonen but you're not getting those every time - once a draft is lucky. 99% of the time, 10 picks outside the top 50 is not going to be as good as 2 inside of it, i dont care how good your scouting team is. 

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2 hours ago, RCAF48 said:

Who knew that a few photos shared on an obscure team's bus thousands of kilometres away would lead to the Montreal Canadiens hiring a Vice -President of hockey operations and Geoff Molson receiving some stern guidance from his co-owners.  A butterfly flaps its' wings and...............

Huh?

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

 

I don't understand the narrative of Roy being "too emotional" or "too passionate" you see all the time GM's in the box screaming at the refs for a bad call or jumping and cheering when their team scores in a big game. With the GM being up and away from the players benches its not like Roy can knock down the glass on another GM and go after him for targeting his players. Roy's passion and intensity wouldn't come into play at all other than being like the other 31 GM's jumping and cheering or yelling at bad calls from 5 stories above the ice surface with no one outside of the organization in the suite with him.

I think we’re mostly on the same page. Roy would have been, and has been since Gaine’s departure, my #1 choice. Particularly as Pres of Hockey Opps. I think his being “hot headed” is blown way out of proportion. I think a more accurate word to describe him is the word you used, passionate. The glass thing with Bodreau was staged. Where I think the concern, expressed by others, comes in is the fear that he would make hockey decisions fuelled by his emotions. To that I would ask, is there a history of that. In all of his years as owner/manager/coach of the Remparts, you would think there would be some history there if that was the case. There could be, I don’t get a lot of Rempart news in Brantford, ON. But I definitely haven’t heard of any.

I still would love to see him back in the fold, but I don’t think he’d be interested in being just a coach, or GM under an active PHO. Maybe as coach/GM?.. And that could be something, gives him a lot of control, just not all of it. I guess I’ll just keep my fingers crossed for that… Whatever happens, I’ll give whoever the benefit of the doubt, just please, please don’t hire some random lady just for the sake of “smashing the glass ceiling”…

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4 hours ago, AH64 said:

As for Roy and what happened in colorado he wanted duchene out and sakic wanted to keep him and look at what ended up happening Roy was right. i think Roy would be fantastic for the organization. 

This, and more. I think there was a lot he wasn’t happy with. I know he also wasn’t a fan of Tyson Barrie either. In a nutshell, he was promised a partnership, and wasn’t receiving what he perceived to be his fair share of the say. His direction wasn’t being acknowledged. The team was falling apart and he knew if he stuck around for another season, the axe was likely going to fall on him. I can’t blame him for that decision.

4 hours ago, maas_art said:

Except that Duchene turned into:  Bowen Byram, Kyle Turris, Andrew Hammond, Shane Bowers & Matt Stienburg.... so keeping him for a little longer wasnt the worst idea ;) 

Your not wrong, but who’s to say what the return would have been if they had moved him sooner. Better? Worse? Equal? 

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51 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I think we’re mostly on the same page. Roy would have been, and has been since Gaine’s departure, my #1 choice. Particularly as Pres of Hockey Opps. I think his being “hot headed” is blown way out of proportion. I think a more accurate word to describe him is the word you used, passionate. The glass thing with Bodreau was staged. Where I think the concern, expressed by others, comes in is the fear that he would make hockey decisions fuelled by his emotions. To that I would ask, is there a history of that. In all of his years as owner/manager/coach of the Remparts, you would think there would be some history there if that was the case. There could be, I don’t get a lot of Rempart news in Brantford, ON. But I definitely haven’t heard of any.

I still would love to see him back in the fold, but I don’t think he’d be interested in being just a coach, or GM under an active PHO. Maybe as coach/GM?.. And that could be something, gives him a lot of control, just not all of it. I guess I’ll just keep my fingers crossed for that… Whatever happens, I’ll give whoever the benefit of the doubt, just please, please don’t hire some random lady just for the sake of “smashing the glass ceiling”…

My apologies I was only quoting you to add to your points not contradict them lol. Roy as coach GM would be amazing. As for the glass incident, I don't know a coach around who wouldn't be pissed if another coach sent players out just to try to injure their players. Can you imagine how Tortz would react?! All hell would break loose LOL

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3 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

No Roy please .  The ego is too big 

 

Why is it too big? Cause he wants to win and hates losing? Or cause he wanted to be pulled in a winnable game 5 goals before the coach wanted to pull him? If you ask me requesting to be pulled for the good of the team is far less egotistical than the coach whose reply is "I am the coach I decide when your night is over" that is egotistical! If I was the GM and owner I would have relieved the coach before the end of the period!

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21 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Why is it too big? Cause he wants to win and hates losing? Or cause he wanted to be pulled in a winnable game 5 goals before the coach wanted to pull him? If you ask me requesting to be pulled for the good of the team is far less egotistical than the coach whose reply is "I am the coach I decide when your night is over" that is egotistical! If I was the GM and owner I would have relieved the coach before the end of the period!

Absolutely! That coach, and I don't even like saying his name, was the scourge of the Montreal Canadiens,  and was the domino that put the Habs in an endess losing loop. He should have been canned!  That team had 0 direction at the top.

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Why is it too big? Cause he wants to win and hates losing? Or cause he wanted to be pulled in a winnable game 5 goals before the coach wanted to pull him? If you ask me requesting to be pulled for the good of the team is far less egotistical than the coach whose reply is "I am the coach I decide when your night is over" that is egotistical! If I was the GM and owner I would have relieved the coach before the end of the period!

OK.

What has Roy done at the NHL level as a scout, coach, assistant GM, or a GM that warrants him becoming the next GM of the Montreal Canadiens aside from having the name Patrick Roy .

here is a little read ...he just comes across ( to me ) as someone who wants control over everything and if he doesnt get he quits ( again IMO )  AND Im a big fan of ROY the NHL goalie 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Roy

On May 23, 2013, Roy was named head coach and vice-president of hockey operations of the Colorado Avalanche.[39] TSN's Bob McKenzie reported that Roy will have the final say in all hockey matters. Then-Avalanche General Manager Greg Sherman retained his post, but was considered the general manager "in name only."[citation needed] At the time, Roy was the only coach in the NHL who has the title or powers of general manager. Before the season started, his former Avs teammate, Joe Sakic, was hired as executive vice-president of hockey operations. Although the title nominally put him above Roy on the organization chart, Roy and Sakic shared most of the duties normally held by a general manager in the NHL–a practice that continued after Sakic was formally granted the title of general manager in 2014.

Roy's first regular-season game with the Colorado Avalanche as coach was the home opener on October 2, 2013, a 6–1 win over the Anaheim Ducks, where Roy got into a shouting match with Ducks Head Coach Bruce Boudreau and nearly broke the partition separating the two teams' benches.[40] Roy won his first six games as a rookie coach, coincidentally tying Mario Tremblay, his former coach with whom he had a feuding relationship, for the most consecutive wins at the beginning of a NHL coaching career.[41]

In the 2013–14 season, Colorado racked up 112 points, won the Central Division title, tied a franchise record with 52 wins, posted the NHL's best road record (26–11–4) and had zero regulation losses when leading after two periods (35–0–3). For his team's success, Roy won the Jack Adams Award for the NHL's top coach, winning the honour over the Detroit Red Wings' Mike Babcock and the Tampa Bay Lightning's Jon Cooper.[42][43]

During the 2014 Stanley Cup playoffs, Roy became known as the hero on more than one occasion when he pulled Semyon Varlamov with nearly three minutes remaining in the game. The team would later score to tie it and win in overtime for two of the three times that he pulled the Russian goaltender. Even other coaches in the league, such as the Ducks' Bruce Boudreau, took advantage to Roy's scheme and complimented him for the idea. However, the heavily favoured #2 seed Avs did lose in the first round to the #7 seed Minnesota Wild at home in the seventh game.

The following season, the Avs regressed significantly, finishing last (seventh) in their division for only the second time in the history of the organization.

On August 11, 2016, Roy, citing a lack of input in personnel decisions, stepped down as the head coach and vice-president of hockey operations for the Avalanche, and was subsequently replaced by Jared Bednar.[44]

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19 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

OK.

What has Roy done at the NHL level as a scout, coach, assistant GM, or a GM that warrants him becoming the next GM of the Montreal Canadiens aside from having the name Patrick Roy .

here is a little read ...he just comes across ( to me ) as someone who wants control over everything and if he doesnt get he quits ( again IMO )  AND Im a big fan of ROY the NHL goalie 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Roy

On May 23, 2013, Roy was named head coach and vice-president of hockey operations of the Colorado Avalanche.[39] TSN's Bob McKenzie reported that Roy will have the final say in all hockey matters. Then-Avalanche General Manager Greg Sherman retained his post, but was considered the general manager "in name only."[citation needed] At the time, Roy was the only coach in the NHL who has the title or powers of general manager. Before the season started, his former Avs teammate, Joe Sakic, was hired as executive vice-president of hockey operations. Although the title nominally put him above Roy on the organization chart, Roy and Sakic shared most of the duties normally held by a general manager in the NHL–a practice that continued after Sakic was formally granted the title of general manager in 2014.

Roy's first regular-season game with the Colorado Avalanche as coach was the home opener on October 2, 2013, a 6–1 win over the Anaheim Ducks, where Roy got into a shouting match with Ducks Head Coach Bruce Boudreau and nearly broke the partition separating the two teams' benches.[40] Roy won his first six games as a rookie coach, coincidentally tying Mario Tremblay, his former coach with whom he had a feuding relationship, for the most consecutive wins at the beginning of a NHL coaching career.[41]

In the 2013–14 season, Colorado racked up 112 points, won the Central Division title, tied a franchise record with 52 wins, posted the NHL's best road record (26–11–4) and had zero regulation losses when leading after two periods (35–0–3). For his team's success, Roy won the Jack Adams Award for the NHL's top coach, winning the honour over the Detroit Red Wings' Mike Babcock and the Tampa Bay Lightning's Jon Cooper.[42][43]

During the 2014 Stanley Cup playoffs, Roy became known as the hero on more than one occasion when he pulled Semyon Varlamov with nearly three minutes remaining in the game. The team would later score to tie it and win in overtime for two of the three times that he pulled the Russian goaltender. Even other coaches in the league, such as the Ducks' Bruce Boudreau, took advantage to Roy's scheme and complimented him for the idea. However, the heavily favoured #2 seed Avs did lose in the first round to the #7 seed Minnesota Wild at home in the seventh game.

The following season, the Avs regressed significantly, finishing last (seventh) in their division for only the second time in the history of the organization.

On August 11, 2016, Roy, citing a lack of input in personnel decisions, stepped down as the head coach and vice-president of hockey operations for the Avalanche, and was subsequently replaced by Jared Bednar.[44]

So you ask what Roy did as a Coach then quote exactly what he did making me not have to prove my point. The fact that Roy was promised shared input then Sakic's ego or his long standing relationship with the organization convinced the team owner to push Roy out. Roy had an opinion of certain players that Sakic didn't like, which ended up being right in the end, Sakic couldn't handle it and wouldn't even entertain Roy's suggestions so Roy did the amicable thing and stepped down instead of creating internal turmoil. I mean he had every right to stay with the team and force the issue but he chose to put the team first and not himself, that is not egotistical in the least.

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28 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

OK.

What has Roy done at the NHL level as a scout, coach, assistant GM, or a GM that warrants him becoming the next GM of the Montreal Canadiens aside from having the name Patrick Roy .

here is a little read ...he just comes across ( to me ) as someone who wants control over everything and if he doesnt get he quits ( again IMO )  AND Im a big fan of ROY the NHL goalie 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Roy

On May 23, 2013, Roy was named head coach and vice-president of hockey operations of the Colorado Avalanche.[39] TSN's Bob McKenzie reported that Roy will have the final say in all hockey matters. Then-Avalanche General Manager Greg Sherman retained his post, but was considered the general manager "in name only."[citation needed] At the time, Roy was the only coach in the NHL who has the title or powers of general manager. Before the season started, his former Avs teammate, Joe Sakic, was hired as executive vice-president of hockey operations. Although the title nominally put him above Roy on the organization chart, Roy and Sakic shared most of the duties normally held by a general manager in the NHL–a practice that continued after Sakic was formally granted the title of general manager in 2014.

Roy's first regular-season game with the Colorado Avalanche as coach was the home opener on October 2, 2013, a 6–1 win over the Anaheim Ducks, where Roy got into a shouting match with Ducks Head Coach Bruce Boudreau and nearly broke the partition separating the two teams' benches.[40] Roy won his first six games as a rookie coach, coincidentally tying Mario Tremblay, his former coach with whom he had a feuding relationship, for the most consecutive wins at the beginning of a NHL coaching career.[41]

In the 2013–14 season, Colorado racked up 112 points, won the Central Division title, tied a franchise record with 52 wins, posted the NHL's best road record (26–11–4) and had zero regulation losses when leading after two periods (35–0–3). For his team's success, Roy won the Jack Adams Award for the NHL's top coach, winning the honour over the Detroit Red Wings' Mike Babcock and the Tampa Bay Lightning's Jon Cooper.[42][43]

During the 2014 Stanley Cup playoffs, Roy became known as the hero on more than one occasion when he pulled Semyon Varlamov with nearly three minutes remaining in the game. The team would later score to tie it and win in overtime for two of the three times that he pulled the Russian goaltender. Even other coaches in the league, such as the Ducks' Bruce Boudreau, took advantage to Roy's scheme and complimented him for the idea. However, the heavily favoured #2 seed Avs did lose in the first round to the #7 seed Minnesota Wild at home in the seventh game.

The following season, the Avs regressed significantly, finishing last (seventh) in their division for only the second time in the history of the organization.

On August 11, 2016, Roy, citing a lack of input in personnel decisions, stepped down as the head coach and vice-president of hockey operations for the Avalanche, and was subsequently replaced by Jared Bednar.[44]

Is this article intended to support, or dispute campabee’s post? Because I would say that taking a bad team and immediately coaching them to a level well above where they were in any way built to perform at, right out of the gate, is pretty impressive. It’s not a first, but still impressive. Winning a Jack Adams is impressive. 

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4 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Your not wrong, but who’s to say what the return would have been if they had moved him sooner. Better? Worse? Equal? 

I dont disagree, but the OP suggested that it was wrong to keep Duchene & I agree with you, there's no way to know which was best, but both scenarios probably work out ok. Its not like they kept the guy & he flamed out. They kept him & then traded him for a huge return. 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

So you ask what Roy did as a Coach then quote exactly what he did making me not have to prove my point. The fact that Roy was promised shared input then Sakic's ego or his long standing relationship with the organization convinced the team owner to push Roy out. Roy had an opinion of certain players that Sakic didn't like, which ended up being right in the end, Sakic couldn't handle it and wouldn't even entertain Roy's suggestions so Roy did the amicable thing and stepped down instead of creating internal turmoil. I mean he had every right to stay with the team and force the issue but he chose to put the team first and not himself, that is not egotistical in the least.

He chose to put the team first ?? 

it says he stepped aside because of lack of input in personnel decisions .   
 

you interpret that as putting the team first , I interpret it as not getting his way and leaving . 
 

absolutely great goalie .  
 

but again I’ll pass on

the coach or GM 

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I wonder how soon before Gorton start's putting his stamp on it? After the loss last night does he start dimantling right away or will he wait till Jan, Feb???. 

Never want the habs to lose, but DD with the .292 winning percent, may be a good idea to keep him around till the end of January or even end of season, he should certainly help our odds of landing Wright :)

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7 hours ago, Regis22 said:

He chose to put the team first ?? 

it says he stepped aside because of lack of input in personnel decisions .   
 

you interpret that as putting the team first , I interpret it as not getting his way and leaving . 
 

absolutely great goalie .  
 

but again I’ll pass on

the coach or GM 

Ok let's put it this way, if you are promised a position of coach and GM and are working along side a PHO's but you input is not valued or acknowledged, would you continue working for that team and potentially making for a hostile environment or would you also step aside? Which one benefits the team more a hostile work environment or a harmonious but it means you have to step down?

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Ok let's put it this way, if you are promised a position of coach and GM and are working along side a PHO's but you input is not valued or acknowledged, would you continue working for that team and potentially making for a hostile environment or would you also step aside? Which one benefits the team more a hostile work environment or a harmonious but it means you have to step down?

Roy was a great goalie. As coach he rode a hot goalie that year and a excited team. His style like Torts and others wore out quickly the next season and his "style" I believe wore out with management also. If you look at what Sakic has done with that team. I'm pretty sure most would agree with the direction Sakic has taken that team. If Roy wasn't on board with Sakic's vision, well I think the Av's kept the right one. I like Roy but he might give a spark and have a good year or two. I believe it would wear out quickly.

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26 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

Roy was a great goalie. As coach he rode a hot goalie that year and a excited team. His style like Torts and others wore out quickly the next season and his "style" I believe wore out with management also. If you look at what Sakic has done with that team. I'm pretty sure most would agree with the direction Sakic has taken that team. If Roy wasn't on board with Sakic's vision, well I think the Av's kept the right one. I like Roy but he might give a spark and have a good year or two. I believe it would wear out quickly.

This right here, I believe, is an unfair assessment. But to each their own. But “rode a hot goalie”? I watched almost every one of their games that year. Did you miss the part in your article where it mentioned all of the wins they got via pulling their goalie early? Not saying Varlarmov had a poor year, but he certainly didn’t carry the team. And I’m pretty sure the team stunk in record breaking fashion during couple years immediately following Roy’s departure. 

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39 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

Roy was a great goalie. As coach he rode a hot goalie that year and a excited team. His style like Torts and others wore out quickly the next season and his "style" I believe wore out with management also. If you look at what Sakic has done with that team. I'm pretty sure most would agree with the direction Sakic has taken that team. If Roy wasn't on board with Sakic's vision, well I think the Av's kept the right one. I like Roy but he might give a spark and have a good year or two. I believe it would wear out quickly.

Sakic's vision after Roy left was going no where. It wasn't until Sakic took Roy vision as his own that the team turned around. Roy said Duchesne and Barrie were too soft and needed to be traded. Once Sakic adopted this view the team turned around. If Sakic had listened to Roy earlier then the team wouldn't have had to tank for 2 or 3 years, they could have kept building on what they already had.

9 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

This right here, I believe, is an unfair assessment. But to each their own. But “rode a hot goalie”? I watched almost every one of their games that year. Did you miss the part in your article where it mentioned all of the wins they got via pulling their goalie early? Not saying Varlarmov had a poor year, but he certainly didn’t carry the team. And I’m pretty sure the team stunk in record breaking fashion during couple years immediately following Roy’s departure. 

Yes Varly was pretty average about equal to Allen that year. The year before Roy became coach the Avs finished very low in the standings, the couple if years after he left they were bad again. Like I said above Sakic had to adopt Roy's vision to turn things around.

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39 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

This right here, I believe, is an unfair assessment. But to each their own. But “rode a hot goalie”? I watched almost every one of their games that year. Did you miss the part in your article where it mentioned all of the wins they got via pulling their goalie early? Not saying Varlarmov had a poor year, but he certainly didn’t carry the team. And I’m pretty sure the team stunk in record breaking fashion during couple years immediately following Roy’s departure. 

Head coach 2013 to 2016 

They stunk in 2015 when  he was still there . In 2016 he resigned 

 

"The following season, the Avs regressed significantly, finishing last (seventh) in their division for only the second time in the history of the organization.

On August 11, 2016, Roy, citing a lack of input in personnel decisions, stepped down as the head coach and vice-president of hockey operations for the Avalanche, and was subsequently replaced by Jared Bednar.[44] "

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