Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

Habs Clean house. Bergevin, Timmins, Wilson Terminated


habsisme
 Share

New Contract?  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you feel MB deserves a new contract?

    • Yes,,, he's earned it.
      1
    • Absolutely not,,, he hasn't earned it.
      11
    • Undecided
      1

This poll is closed to new votes


Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, electron58 said:

How much longer can this go on?  It's been too many years already! Does Molson even care?  It's not like it would be a knee jerk decision.  bergebin has laid the groundwork,  over several years, to be fired. I mean, others have been fired for less. This is Lefebvre,  all over again!

I would assume (or at least hope) that the holdup is simply wanting to have someone in place.   Ideally you need to fire DD because his lack of system/coaching adjustment/planning is really hurting us, but with MB as a lame duck GM in limbo, you also dont want him making changes so you want to replace him too.  That means you're likely clearly house. You need to bring in a GM and, with that person, a coaching staff (although they may want to keep on guys like Richardson or Burke for a bit who knows). 

Im hopeful that Molson is at least working on something but who knows. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

I'll just leave this here 

MB's 10 year W-L 341-339, .501 win%
1st 5 years, W-L 210-166, .558 win%
2nd 5 years, W-L 131-173, .431 win

That tells you all you need to know about the team he created

Most of MB's early success came on the backs of the core (Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Markov, Plekanec, Gallagher) left by his predecessors. While he's made some good trades, the defence corps went from being one mainly built around skill and skating ability to one built around grit/bodychecking/shot-blocking and that has really been the aspect that has sunk us in more than anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

I'll just leave this here 

MB's 10 year W-L 341-339, .501 win%
1st 5 years, W-L 210-166, .558 win%
2nd 5 years, W-L 131-173, .431 win

That tells you all you need to know about the team he created

Indeed. Benefitted from the works of the GMs who came before him, and then has flopped since having constructed "his" team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Most of MB's early success came on the backs of the core (Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Markov, Plekanec, Gallagher) left by his predecessors. While he's made some good trades, the defence corps went from being one mainly built around skill and skating ability to one built around grit/bodychecking/shot-blocking and that has really been the aspect that has sunk us in more than anything else.

Yup, MB keeps wanting to go back to the grit/size/shotblocking era of the early 2000s to 2015ish ... but hasn't realized the game has changed to skill, speed and possession.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob Murray out as GM of the Ducks and entering an alcohol-abuse program. They had announced one of their assistant GMs would become interim... if he stays in that role or if they hire someone else, then it makes Martin Madden Jr. maybe decide to look elsewhere for a GM position. If they go with Madden Jr. themselves, then obviously it takes him off the market as a viable replacement for Bergevin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Bob Murray out as GM of the Ducks and entering an alcohol-abuse program. They had announced one of their assistant GMs would become interim... if he stays in that role or if they hire someone else, then it makes Martin Madden Jr. maybe decide to look elsewhere for a GM position. If they go with Madden Jr. themselves, then obviously it takes him off the market as a viable replacement for Bergevin.

he's french?? EDIT: nevermind looked it up and he does! lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/four-nhl-gms-on-the-hot-seat

2. Marc Bergevin, Montreal

What has Marc Bergevin, like, done, exactly? What has he REALLY accomplished? 

Sure, he led his team to an improbable Stanley Cup Final appearance last season thanks to an unforeseen combination of injury, shooting, and goaltending luck. That is true. You can't dispute it. 

What you also can't dispute is how Bergevin followed that up by losing half of his core to free agency that off-season, got dunked on by an opposing offer sheet, and watched his team fall all the way back to the basement. 

If that's your crowning achievement, your butt should be sweating right about now. 

Bergevin is the king of mediocrity. His ability to build a roster that looks juuuuust formidable enough on paper to squeak into the playoffs each year is honestly remarkable - the dream of an owner whose margins live or die on two home games of post-season revenue. 

A decade into his tenure and the needle has barely moved. The Canadiens are 4-12-2 at the moment. They're still incapable of scoring goals, still pressed up against the cap's ceiling, and still allergic to drafting and developing their own talent. 

That is a staggering failure in roster constructing, one that demonstrates Bergevin's inability to identify young talent, and, in the event that he does, willingness to flippantly deal it away in pursuit of a contention window that never truly opens. 

If Bergevin hasn't built a contender by now, why would you believe he'll ever do it? 

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Timing - I suspect they go until the Olympic break before proceeding in a new direction from Bergevin (I hope I am wrong) but candidates in the pool continue to be 1) Patrick Roy - major shakeup 2) Mathieu Darche - why would he leave Tampa Bay and it's culture but has reasonable education 3) Pat Brisson - makes too much money as an agent 4) Bobby Smith from successful Halifax Mooseheads organization but he has barely passing conversational french and may not be francophone enough, and may not want the stress 5) Martin Madden Jr. - can he be pried away from the ducks 6) Premier Legault....7) Claude Loiselle - I don't even know where he went

I don't believe any of the TV talking heads should be serious candidates - McGuire or Damphousse etc. 

It's such a limited pool - the mark of a good organization is to have a succession plan - a Serious weakness for the habs

anyone else have candidates?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.tsn.ca/marc-bergevin-on-habs-start-it-s-hard-to-comprehend-1.1723635

In the case of head coach Dominique Ducharme, who replaced Claude Julien mid-season in 2020-21 and signed a three-year deal after coaching the team to the Finals, his job is not in danger according to Bergevin.

“Not at this point, but again, if you look at a few months ago, Dom took pretty much the same team to the Stanley Cup Final and he didn’t become a bad coach in three months,’’ Bergevin said. “It’s not only one person. It’s not only one issue.’’

___

How exactly is this the same team that made it to the Cup finals, Marc? You mean the same team minus Price, Weber, Edmundson, Danault, Byron, Kotkaniemi, Perry, Tatar, and Staal? I see :ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ChiLla said:

https://www.tsn.ca/marc-bergevin-on-habs-start-it-s-hard-to-comprehend-1.1723635

In the case of head coach Dominique Ducharme, who replaced Claude Julien mid-season in 2020-21 and signed a three-year deal after coaching the team to the Finals, his job is not in danger according to Bergevin.

“Not at this point, but again, if you look at a few months ago, Dom took pretty much the same team to the Stanley Cup Final and he didn’t become a bad coach in three months,’’ Bergevin said. “It’s not only one person. It’s not only one issue.’’

___

How exactly is this the same team that made it to the Cup finals, Marc? You mean the same team minus Price, Weber, Edmundson, Danault, Byron, Kotkaniemi, Perry, Tatar, and Staal? I see :ph34r:

Maybe Molson has asked him to hold off because he wants his NEW GM to pick a new coach. We can only hope.:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ChiLla said:

https://www.tsn.ca/marc-bergevin-on-habs-start-it-s-hard-to-comprehend-1.1723635

In the case of head coach Dominique Ducharme, who replaced Claude Julien mid-season in 2020-21 and signed a three-year deal after coaching the team to the Finals, his job is not in danger according to Bergevin.

“Not at this point, but again, if you look at a few months ago, Dom took pretty much the same team to the Stanley Cup Final and he didn’t become a bad coach in three months,’’ Bergevin said. “It’s not only one person. It’s not only one issue.’’

___

How exactly is this the same team that made it to the Cup finals, Marc? You mean the same team minus Price, Weber, Edmundson, Danault, Byron, Kotkaniemi, Perry, Tatar, and Staal? I see :ph34r:

Yeah i saw that.
You're missing your #1 goalie (who was playing better than he has in 5 years). Your #2 goalie, your #1dman (who was playing better than he has in 3 years), your #3 dman, your #2 centre, your #3 centre all of whom have been replaced by players who are not close to the same level.. but its "pretty much the same team"  

This, folks, is our problem & has been for nearly 10 years.   MB cannot assess talent and thinks quantity > quality. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Maybe Molson has asked him to hold off because he wants his NEW GM to pick a new coach. We can only hope.:rolleyes:

yeah if the plan is to get a new GM there's no point in adding someone new. You could fire DD and put Richardson in that spot but I m not sure we want to go there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

yeah if the plan is to get a new GM there's no point in adding someone new. You could fire DD and put Richardson in that spot but I m not sure we want to go there. 

My argument against this is that there aren't really any French-speaking coaches or GMs currently working with NHL teams who are due to be fired or have their contracts run out at the end of this season that we'd likely be interested in picking up. You want Brisebois? He's employed. TB also just signed Matt Darche to their management team. You want an assistant GM or coach, most of them have outs to be able to take on a better job, so there's nothing stopping us from doing that now.

My guess is that Molson has already chalked this up to being a lost season and is already paying MB and two coaches right now, and he figures he's not going to spend the money to pay a 3rd coach and a 2nd GM at the same time. I'm hoping/expecting he'll make the move as soon as the regular season is over, but he has to know already who he's considering. IMO Martin Madden Jr in Anaheim has to be a prime target if he doesn't get the Anaheim job. Only move I could see making sense right now is firing MB and putting Timmins in the job as he's internal and would be able to lead you into the draft seamlessly. Past that, I think it's too late for any moves to make a difference this season and at this point, I think Molson is just trying to save money by not moving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://thehockeywriters.com/marc-bergevin-canadiens-era-needs-end/

Marc Bergevin: A Canadiens Era That Needs to End

Marc Bergevin was a breath of fresh air when he joined the Montreal Canadiens back in 2012. He was charismatic, personable — he seemed to be exactly what the team needed after Pierre Gauthier’s disastrous stint as general manager.

Fast forward to today and that energy Bergevin brought 10 years ago has soured. The club now finds itself in the bottom tier of the league. With injuries piling up, the team might be due for a massive overhaul, which not many predicted after Montreal’s first Stanley Cup Final appearance in almost 30 years.

t has been a bumpy road for the Canadiens the last few seasons. Fans have seen their team win its division, then finish near the bottom in its division; score lots of goals, then very few; make it to the Stanley Cup Final, then completely fall apart. The Habs have been consistent in their inconsistency, but such is the trend and resulting love-hate relationship Bergevin has developed over the course of his time in Montreal.

 

ith that said, it is difficult to be the general manager of a professional sports franchise. With 32 teams in the league, the NHL has never been more competitive. To put things in perspective, this season’s favorite (Colorado Avalanche) has a 10.7 percent chance to win the Stanley Cup. Some things are out of a general manager’s control (puck luck, playing well at the right time, etc.), and while the measuring stick continues to be winning hockey’s ultimate prize, it is not the only thing that defines a good general manager. Perhaps the more pressing question here is has Bergevin iced teams that gave Montreal the best chance to win? The numbers might say otherwise.

The Analytics

The Canadiens have long been a tough code to crack when it comes to analytics. From Michel Therrien’s dump-and-chase teams to Claude Julien’s puck-possession teams to Dominique Ducharme’s chaos, the club has experienced an array of playing styles under Bergevin’s tenure. However, it seemed that no matter who was coaching, it was a Jekyll-and-Hyde scenario. When Carey Price was good, the team was bad, and vice versa. Rinse and repeat

When melded together over the last decade, you get what you see in the chart above — an average team in every sense of the word. Since the 2012-13 season, Montreal’s expected goals (xG) — the number of goals a player or team should score given the number and type of chances they had in a game — only slightly deviated from its results, with the team performing as expected on defense and underperforming on offense.

It should be no secret that part of the reason the Canadiens struggle to score is their lack of star power and finishers (ranked 27th in shooting percentage), and they have had this issue for a concerningly long stretch. The last time the team had a point-per-game player (Alex Kovalev), Bob Gainey was still general manager. In fairness, it has been historically difficult to attract elite players to Montreal — pressure, weather, taxes, and language are among some of the reasons players avoid signing in La Belle Province. While all that is true, accepting the position as Canadiens general manager comes with the understanding that these challenges need to be overcome. In his 10 years as general manager, Bergevin failed to do so.

 

Simple math would suggest that if a team falls short on their ability to convert shots into goals, it must outshoot and outchance opponents regularly just to break even in the scoring department. The team simply did not do that enough in the last decade to produce desired results.

Analytics do not tell the whole story, but in Montreal’s case, they paint an accurate picture of the mediocrity that is the Marc Bergevin era — an era that relied too heavily on goaltending and lacked offensive punch. But it is not all bad.

Player Evaluation

On some occasions, Bergevin demolished other general managers around the league. In fact, he won the majority of the trades he made — with recent key additions including Jeff Petry, Phillip Danault, Nick Suzuki, and Tomas Tatar. On many instances, the 56-year-old general manager showed that he was not only capable of wheeling and dealing but fleecing his counterparts.

Unfortunately, these brilliant moves were often overshadowed by Bergevin’s inability to re-sign key pieces in the offseason — Danault and Alexander Radulov, among others — coupled with some puzzling moves in free agency. In fairness, free agency is called a frenzy for a reason; it is the time of year where general managers get to become kids in a candy store, picking things off the shelf they do not necessarily need and, at times, grossly overpaying.

Bergevin fell for a few gimmicks, recent notables being Karl Alzner and David Savard. Focusing on Savard, there was a time when the 31-year-old Quebec native was a top-tier defenseman. That is no longer the case today

 

As indicated in the chart above, Savard’s offense took a nosedive in the three seasons prior to joining Montreal, and his ineffectiveness at even strength has continued this season. According to Dom Luszczyszyn’s Game Score – a score used to measure a player’s overall impact at both ends of the ice – Savard is dead last on the team this season. He seems to always be a step behind and if a speedy forward is flying down the wing, having Savard as your last line of defense might not be the best game plan.

These are the types of moves that make you question everything. While players like Savard and Alzner bring valuable experience, ignoring three seasons of regression does not exactly instill confidence in Bergevin’s decision-making ability. Not every move is going to work out, but when there are numerous red flags screaming to stay away, and the general manager does the opposite, it wreaks of incompetency. The signs were there, and they were carelessly ignored.

The Canadiens general manager also failed to draft and develop core NHL players — Jesperi Kotkaniemi and Alex Galchenyuk come to mind. And while he stressed the importance of building through the draft at the beginning of his tenure, he never proved he could do that efficiently.

Final Thoughts

To put a balance on things, you would be hard pressed to find a general manager in the league that cares more about the players and product he puts on the ice. Marc Bergevin does what he feels is best for his hockey club, regardless of what anyone thinks — as seen with the vastly unpopular decision to trade P.K. Subban for Shea Weber. That ability to block outside noise is something to admire, and a trait the 56-year-old general manager has carried with him throughout his time in Montreal.

Since joining the Canadiens, Bergevin has gone from a clean-cut look to long-hair-don’t-care; from business-like to his version of the Geico Caveman. This change in appearance is perhaps a reflection of the countless hours, grilling press conferences, and stressful trade deadlines endured throughout his time as Habs general manager. But perhaps it is also a sign Bergevin has worn out his stay; that his time in Montreal is coming to an end.

You could write a novel about what went right and wrong for the Canadiens during the Bergevin era — a roller coaster ride with limitless ups and downs. While fans will continue to ride or die with their team, it might be time for the longest-standing general manager in the Eastern Conference to get off this ride. It might be time for Bergevin to finally hit the exit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/20/2021 at 12:58 PM, BigTed3 said:

My argument against this is that there aren't really any French-speaking coaches or GMs currently working with NHL teams who are due to be fired or have their contracts run out at the end of this season that we'd likely be interested in picking up. You want Brisebois? He's employed. TB also just signed Matt Darche to their management team. You want an assistant GM or coach, most of them have outs to be able to take on a better job, so there's nothing stopping us from doing that now.

My guess is that Molson has already chalked this up to being a lost season and is already paying MB and two coaches right now, and he figures he's not going to spend the money to pay a 3rd coach and a 2nd GM at the same time. I'm hoping/expecting he'll make the move as soon as the regular season is over, but he has to know already who he's considering. IMO Martin Madden Jr in Anaheim has to be a prime target if he doesn't get the Anaheim job. Only move I could see making sense right now is firing MB and putting Timmins in the job as he's internal and would be able to lead you into the draft seamlessly. Past that, I think it's too late for any moves to make a difference this season and at this point, I think Molson is just trying to save money by not moving.

You're probably right. And i assume that Molson has bought into MB's narrative that this is still a top Hockey club - we were 3 games from a stanley cup after all, its just been bad puck luck and injuries.. which of course, is not the truth. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Pierre Lebrun reporting that Molson spoke to Mellanby about taking over the GM role and that Mellanby was subsequently told he was out of the running, so he resigned. Suggests that Bergevin is indeed going to be fired!!!!!

Legault probably called Molson and told him,,,, don't you dare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • maas_art changed the title to Habs Clean house. Bergevin, Timmins, Wilson Terminated
  • H_T_L locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...